England v Wales, 26 September

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ENGLAND v WALES
26 September 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: Jaco Peyper (South Africa) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

126 Played 126
58 Won 56
12 Drawn 12
56 Lost 58
1,596 Points 1,456

B. Recent Form

6 February 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
16 – 21 to England

9 March 2014
Twickenham Stadium, London
29 – 18 to England

16 March 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
30 – 3 to Wales

25 February 2012
Twickenham Stadium, London
12 – 19 to Wales

13 August 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 9 to Wales

6 August 2011
Twickenham, London
23 – 19 to England

4 February 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 26 to England

6 February 2010
Twickenham, London
30 – 17 to England

14 February 2009
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 15 to Wales

2 February 2008
Twickenham, London
19 – 26 to Wales

C. Teams

ENGLAND

[tbc]

WALES

[tbc]

No 7&1/2 wrote:Cole was good in my opinion in the 6Ns, showed good form for Leicester as well from what I've seen though their fans have probably seen more?

Cole has been a shadow of himself for club and country since returning from injury.


How big a loss is Joseph and Morgan ?

As a Welsh fan I'd be much more confident if they were (sadly) injured.

Gatland is remaining eerily quiet.
No roof to talk about maybe?

munkian wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Cole was good in my opinion in the 6Ns, showed good form for Leicester as well from what I've seen though their fans have probably seen more?

Cole has been a shadow of himself for club and country since returning from  injury.


How big a loss is Joseph and Morgan ?

As a Welsh fan I'd be much more confident if they were (sadly) injured.

Cole's looked out of sorts in the warm-ups and against Fiji, but he surprised me in the 6N with how well he played.

Joseph is on injury watch having picked up a knock to the chest against Fiji - but the likely replacement is Slade, who's a different type of player but is a very exciting prospect.

Morgan looks in reasonable shape, but if he or Billy were injured there's always Nick Easter, who appears to be in blistering form for the 10 minutes of him we saw in the warm ups. And who has nothing to lose and a point to prove if the call does come.

Johnathan Joseph may miss the game against Wales. If he does i just hope that SL does not push Barrit to the 13 slot and bring in Farrwell to cover the 12 shirt....Leave Farrel as replacement 10 and play Slade instead.

Do we want to drop Slade into such an important game though??

How about Burgess and Barritt? With Slade benching

Jimpy wrote:One thing is for sure, if Wales lose, or even draw this game, they can book the bus back home...

They went up on the train so that would be a waste to

yappysnap wrote:Do we want to drop Slade into such an important game though??

How about Burgess and Barritt? With Slade benching

Does Burgess and Barritt not fell just a wee bit one dimensional?

screamingaddabs wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Do we want to drop Slade into such an important game though??

How about Burgess and Barritt? With Slade benching

Does Burgess and Barritt not fell just a wee bit one dimensional?

I'm OK with it...

maestegmafia wrote:
Twenty thousand opposition fans will travel to England’s HQ which will make the atmosphere for the crucial game electric

A quarter of the Twickenham crowd could be filled by Wales supporters for the crunch World Cup match against England on Saturday, almost four times the total for a normal Six Nations match, The Telegraph can reveal.

The prospect of around 20,000 Welsh supporters turning sections of England’s headquarters into 'little Cardiff’ for a game that was more oversubscribed than the World Cup final has the potential to create one of the most febrile atmospheres in the history of the World Cup.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11881291/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-Wales-invasion-to-turn-Twickenham-factor-on-its-head.html

8pm Saturday night ko too. Frightening.
Watchout what you're stepping on/in.

Just read that England were training with a midfield of Farrell Barrett and Burgess......

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/22/jonathan-joseph-doubtful-england-rugby-world-cup-wales-chest-injury

If stuttering England fail to do a much injured Wales at HQ on Saturday they need shooting. There again, oh dear...
England 19-26 Wales
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7215056.stm

You know what? I don't think it matters who's playing 10, 12 or 13 if our pack don't sort themselves out.

If our scrums are as shoddy as against Fiji, if our carrying is as limp and we concede as many turnovers while making so few then we'll have far bigger issues!

Both sides have big concerns obviously and it'll be a different Wales on the weekend. Gonna be ugly though I reckon which is ok by me.

I agree with Cardiff Dave. Both sides have injury problems, but besides that both teams will be pumped up for this game, and it will get ugly, i do expect some big hits from both sides.

Cardiff Dave wrote:If stuttering England fail to do a much injured Wales at HQ on Saturday they need shooting. There again, oh dear...
England 19-26 Wales
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7215056.stm

Can't beat 2008 for relevance!

jamesandimac wrote:Just read that England were training with a midfield of Farrell Barrett and Burgess......

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/22/jonathan-joseph-doubtful-england-rugby-world-cup-wales-chest-injury

Whilst they might do this it doesn't sound too unusual to train with your subs in place. If ford and JJ got injured in a game those three would need to play together.

Scottrf wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:If stuttering England fail to do a much injured Wales at HQ on Saturday they need shooting. There again, oh dear...
England 19-26 Wales
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7215056.stm

Can't beat 2008 for relevance!

A freak of a game. England were by far the better team until they went walkabout in the second half.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:If stuttering England fail to do a much injured Wales at HQ on Saturday they need shooting. There again, oh dear...
England 19-26 Wales
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7215056.stm

Can't beat 2008 for relevance!

A freak of a game. England were by far the better team until they went walkabout in the second half.

Like us this yur

The Times on Twitter just reported that Farrell , Burgess and Barritt will start !

According to the Telegraph its 10. Farrell 12. Burgess and 13. Barrett.

They also mention 4 changes to the starting lineup, with Morgan expected to start, so I assume the 4th change will be Launchbury as it doesn't mention the name.

Its certainly a midfield designed to stop Wales dead, but I wonder if its a midfield that can unleash the wide men. Maybe this was always a horses for courses selection.

On the plus side we can assume Slade will accompany Ford on the bench so there is at least some width coming on later in the game to open things up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11883827/England-coach-Stuart-Lancaster-to-start-Sam-Burgess-against-Wales-while-George-Ford-faces-World-Cup-axe.html

majesticimperialman wrote:I agree with Cardiff Dave. Both sides have injury problems, but besides that both teams will be pumped up for this game, and it will get ugly, i do expect some big hits from both sides.

The 16th man may decide it ie the 20,000 p1$$ed up Welsh and England aint got a Luger this time round I don't think, but you never can be sure....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bYPKXRJ65M

Much happier Wales are facing Farrell.

It will be a strong defensive England midfield, but can't see the England backs worrying the Welsh defence with a passing game at least.

yappysnap wrote:You know what? I don't think it matters who's playing 10, 12 or 13 if our pack don't sort themselves out.

If our scrums are as shoddy as against Fiji, if our carrying is as limp and we concede as many turnovers while making so few then we'll have far bigger issues!

But recently it has been the backs who have dug us out of a hole dug for us by the forwards.

jamesandimac wrote:According to the Telegraph its 10. Farrell 12. Burgess and 13. Barrett.

They also mention 4 changes to the starting lineup, with Morgan expected to start, so I assume the 4th change will be Launchbury as it doesn't mention the name.

Its certainly a midfield designed to stop Wales dead, but I wonder if its a midfield that can unleash the wide men.  Maybe this was always a horses for courses selection.

On the plus side we can assume Slade will accompany Ford on the bench so there is at least some width coming on later in the game to open things up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11883827/England-coach-Stuart-Lancaster-to-start-Sam-Burgess-against-Wales-while-George-Ford-faces-World-Cup-axe.html

The best thing about this midfield is that if it doesn't work Slade can come on and nail a place for the rest of the tournament.

Let's be honest, Barritt is extremely lucky to be starting after his last performance, and this is a pretty negative selection. If the forwards do have a hard time the outside backs appear to have little chance of seeing the ball.

Ello ello ello. Long time listener; first time caller. Geordie exciled in Birmingham.

Anyway, I'm an eternal optimist. Until now. Burgess and Barrett in the middle AND Goode on the bench rather than slade? My support of Lancaster may be slipping.

Gutted.

rozakthegoon wrote:Ello ello ello. Long time listener; first time caller. Geordie exciled in Birmingham.

Anyway, I'm an eternal optimist. Until now. Burgess and Barrett in the middle AND Goode on the bench rather than slade? My support of Lancaster may be slipping.

Gutted.

Goode on the bench? Confirmed?

Ford was poor against Fiji, but it is harsh to drop him. The last time Farrell played he was alongside Slade and Goode, and that will improve the game of any FH. Ford didn't have any of that luxury as the sole play-maker.

Is Goode on the bench then? That's disappointing. If Watson or May pick up an injury then we'll be seriously short of pace, along with the other issues.

Ford got pretty crap ball from his forwards a lot of the time as well did he not - and I thought he wa OK anyway

the daily-tory-rag-hate-mail says Goode(sorry for slow reply, i was burning my eyes with candles for reading such Poopie) but it wouldnt suprise me.

I was hoping for slade and burgess, or at least slade off the bench.

to be fair, ford will be on the bench and hopefully once welsh bodies are battered he will come on and release the wings... ?? maybe?

That is my nightmare midfield. It's honestly awful, not because of the individual players but because it lacks either the pace to attack directly (Burgess can run directly but Doc isn't exactly a weak tackler, can't see that doing well) or any distribution to use our back 3. Or kicking outside 10. Or anything in terms of guile. Any one of the three, great and probably vital. Any two, doable. All 3, that means we play like Wales and they are better at playing like Wales than we are!

I hope the rumours are wrong and failing that I hope I am wrong, but I am scared for the first time. Unless we are going to have Farrell cross field kick to May as our only weapon

Not gonna start with Farrell surely? Ford is twice the player.

wales606 wrote:Much happier Wales are facing Farrell.

It will be a strong defensive England midfield, but can't see the England backs worrying the Welsh defence with a passing game at least.

Mike Brown appears very hungry don't forget. Who's our FB on Saturday?

TJ wrote:Not gonna start with Farrell surely?  Ford is twice the player.

Better kicker isn't he? I can see this game being decided with the boot actually.

BOMBER!!!!!!!!!

Cardiff Dave wrote:

TJ wrote:Not gonna start with Farrell surely?  Ford is twice the player.

Better kicker isn't he? I can see this game being decided with the boot actually.

Well yes, if neither side picks any attacking players, it is likely to be a game decided by penalties

You can expect Wales to utilise the 10 man lineout .

If the rumours are right, we could be in for a really turgid affair. Wales can only pick one team and its obvious the way we will play. England could pick an exciting but less experienced back line with plenty of flair that if it fires could run rings around us. If Farrell, Burgess and Barrett play it will be a war of attrition that might play into our hands?

Will SL make a spectacular mistake, constrain the mid-field and diminish his potent back three? We can only hope.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

TJ wrote:Not gonna start with Farrell surely?  Ford is twice the player.

Better kicker isn't he? I can see this game being decided with the boot actually.

Well yes, if neither side picks any attacking players, it is likely to be a game decided by penalties

Crikey.

BBC reporting that that Farrel replaces Ford and burgess and Barritt to start. We are Frak, thank you SL thanks a lot.

TightHEAD wrote:BBC reporting that that Farrel replaces Ford and burgess and Barritt to start. We are Frak, thank you SL thanks a lot.

Shall we just agree with Wales to get randomly allocated breakdown penalties and exchange shots at goal now?

offload wrote:If the rumours are right, we could be in for a really turgid affair.  Wales can only pick one team and its obvious the way we will play.  England could pick an exciting but less experienced back line with plenty of flair that if it fires could run rings around us.  If Farrell, Burgess and Barrett play it will be a war of attrition that might play into our hands?

Will SL make a spectacular mistake, constrain the mid-field and diminish his potent back three?  We can only hope.  

SL must be hoping we will kick to the back three often, where-as I hope that we don't. If we keep the ball in hand, neutralise their scrum and lineout (easier said than done) we can win, because then it will likely come down to who can get the lucky break.

Designed to repel an expected early onslaught by the Ramtanks of Wales? Will Ford be on the bench? He'll take over when the English want to unleash their endgame/superior fitness runaround on tired Welshies, who gave everything in an explosive first half, and as they begin to substitute the big boys off the park to keep them okay for Australia?

SecretFly wrote:Designed to repel an expected early onslaught by the Ramtanks of Wales?  Will Ford be on the bench?  He'll take over when the English want to unleash their endgame/superior fitness runaround on tired Welshies, who gave everything in an explosive first half, and as they begin to substitute the big boys off the park to keep them okay for Australia?

Maybe. I personally think he just doesn't trust his attacking plan and attacking players

ChequeredJersey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Designed to repel an expected early onslaught by the Ramtanks of Wales?  Will Ford be on the bench?  He'll take over when the English want to unleash their endgame/superior fitness runaround on tired Welshies, who gave everything in an explosive first half, and as they begin to substitute the big boys off the park to keep them okay for Australia?

Maybe. I personally think he just doesn't trust his attacking plan and attacking players

If true CJ that's a shame. I usually look at an English team and worry that we can't live with a strong pack and hope our backs can create something. Lately I see the likes of Ford, Slade, Joseph, Brown, May etc and think here is a potential great backline to compliment a great pack.

I fully agree re the comments on England's forwards. If they do not improve then we will lose and it does not matter who the backs are. For me both Parling and T.Youngs have to go. Both too lightweight although they can both be excellent in their own ways. T.Youngs is an outstanding defender, but the scrums need shoring up.

I am also concerned that SL is repeating mistakes already learnt. We knew Parling was too lightweight. We also know that Farrell is not creative or attacking enough. A great goal kicker and tackler, but he does not get a backline moving. Ford has been a breath of fresh air and should be retained.

And our centres will never have played together if JJ is injured? Barrett and Burgess? Maybe the tried and tested combo of Slade and Burgess? A worry alround.

hugehandoff wrote:I fully agree re the comments on England's forwards. If they do not improve then we will lose and it does not matter who the backs are. For me both Parling and T.Youngs have to go. Both too lightweight although they can both be excellent in their own ways. T.Youngs is an outstanding defender, but the scrums need shoring up.

I am also concerned that SL is repeating mistakes already learnt. We knew Parling was too lightweight. We also know that Farrell is not creative or attacking enough. A great goal kicker and tackler, but he does not get a backline moving. Ford has been a breath of fresh air and should be retained.

And our centres will never have played together if JJ is injured? Barrett and Burgess? Maybe the tried and tested combo of Slade and Burgess? A worry alround.

Interesting......the second row pair I would least want to see as a Welshman would be Parling and Launchbury. I think Lawes plays like a 6 trying to be a lock, hits hard, but that's all. Parling is a lineout pro and hugely experienced - Launchbury is the best all round lock in England .

I would have been happy to see the majority of the England starting 15 from the Fiji match start again this Saturday. Understand on Joeseph being out and would have gone with Slade myself to replace him but otherwise would have left the backs the same, even allowing for Barritt and B.Youngs poor showing on Friday. In the pack I agree they have got to bring Lauchbury in to add some strength at the scrum and breakdown (probably for Lawes). So I would have made 2 changes, 1 enforced. Am I the only one who thought it was actually pleasing and refreshing to see an England bench make such a positive game changing contribution?

If the 10,12 & 13 is as expected then what will have changed from when we played Farrell, Barritt and Tuilagi before? Doesn't matter who we put on the wings I can't image they will see much ball unless the Welsh kick to them all evening. Think Ford has had a rough deal too, he was given a crap platform to work from by his pack and 9 last week.

Can't help but think SL reverting to trying to be hard to beat as opposed to an more attacking philosophy but I don't think we have the players to do that. Kind of reminds me a bit of Jonno reverting to the old stages as we went into WC 2011.

ReallY Ford out? thats a very poor decision. Lancaster has always seemed to prefer a low risk option with the big boshers not the speedy skillful players but this is the wrong approach IMO - you need to run round wales not thru them. MY gut feeling now says wales will win 'cos of Englands negative tactic

Last time Farrell and Youngs played together was in Cardiff 2013. I believe that was the 3rd-last time that Farrell and Barritt played together too (with the last time being the defeat to South Africa last autumn).

This really does seem a sketchy selection. Wales should find it very easy to defend this backline. With Wales's attack also unlikely to trouble a strong England defence this could easily be a dire game for the neutral.