Scotland v South Africa, 3 October

fa0019 wrote:Simply don't think Scotland can beat the boks that way.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Simply don't think Scotland can beat the boks that way.

And you think we can beat them in an arm wrestle?

fa0019 wrote:Simply don't think Scotland can beat the boks that way.

fa0019 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Simply don't think Scotland can beat the boks that way.

And you think we can beat them in an arm wrestle?

I think we can combat their strengths easier in a tight match. People think the boks backs are bulky... not really, they play fluid rugby.

Their forwards however is where Scottland needs to take them on. Play an aggressive ruck game and if that means an arm-wrestle then sure.

fa0019 wrote:Simply don't think Scotland can beat the boks that way.

Biltong wrote:Well reading too much into the open game Japan played is going to provide false perceptions.

Yes, Japan played at a level and intensity we have not seen from them.

But lets be honest, South Africa was blase,  if they were switched on Japan would not win. You can argue as much as you want that is true.

South Africa dismissed that they could lose, you can even see it in their attitude late in the second half.

Don't think the Japan result tells you how to beat the boks, because an open running game has a few requirements.

Firstly you need players with high quality, I am not saying Scotland don't have them, I am saying they must be man for man better than the Boks. And although I have not watched much Scottish test rugby, I don't think man for man the Scots are better across the park.

But then you also need a superior game, superior breakdown work, superior scrum, etc etc.

I will probably be lynched for this.

If South Africa come out to play, focused and as a team united, Scotland won't outplay them.

But, then again, we don't know if the will be united and focused

Biltong wrote:Well reading too much into the open game Japan played is going to provide false perceptions.

Yes, Japan played at a level and intensity we have not seen from them.

But lets be honest, South Africa was blase,  if they were switched on Japan would not win. You can argue as much as you want that is true.

South Africa dismissed that they could lose, you can even see it in their attitude late in the second half.

Don't think the Japan result tells you how to beat the boks, because an open running game has a few requirements.

Firstly you need players with high quality, I am not saying Scotland don't have them, I am saying they must be man for man better than the Boks. And although I have not watched much Scottish test rugby, I don't think man for man the Scots are better across the park.

But then you also need a superior game, superior breakdown work, superior scrum, etc etc.

I will probably be lynched for this.

If South Africa come out to play, focused and as a team united, Scotland won't outplay them.

But, then again, we don't know if the will be united and focused

Biltong wrote:Well reading too much into the open game Japan played is going to provide false perceptions.

Yes, Japan played at a level and intensity we have not seen from them.

But lets be honest, South Africa was blase,  if they were switched on Japan would not win. You can argue as much as you want that is true.

South Africa dismissed that they could lose, you can even see it in their attitude late in the second half.

Don't think the Japan result tells you how to beat the boks, because an open running game has a few requirements.

Firstly you need players with high quality, I am not saying Scotland don't have them, I am saying they must be man for man better than the Boks. And although I have not watched much Scottish test rugby, I don't think man for man the Scots are better across the park.

But then you also need a superior game, superior breakdown work, superior scrum, etc etc.

I will probably be lynched for this.

If South Africa come out to play, focused and as a team united, Scotland won't outplay them.

But, then again, we don't know if the will be united and focused

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Well reading too much into the open game Japan played is going to provide false perceptions.

Yes, Japan played at a level and intensity we have not seen from them.

But lets be honest, South Africa was blase,  if they were switched on Japan would not win. You can argue as much as you want that is true.

South Africa dismissed that they could lose, you can even see it in their attitude late in the second half.

Don't think the Japan result tells you how to beat the boks, because an open running game has a few requirements.

Firstly you need players with high quality, I am not saying Scotland don't have them, I am saying they must be man for man better than the Boks. And although I have not watched much Scottish test rugby, I don't think man for man the Scots are better across the park.

But then you also need a superior game, superior breakdown work, superior scrum, etc etc.

I will probably be lynched for this.

If South Africa come out to play, focused and as a team united, Scotland won't outplay them.

But, then again, we don't know if the will be united and focused

I agree to an extent. If South Africa come out an play to the best of their ability I can't see Scotland winning.

That being said, Scotland have a talented group of guys, conditioned well and a game plan that plays to their Strengths. I reckon south Africa will win, but IMO they will need to play at their best to do so if Scotland come out and execute their game plan to the best of their ability.

Should be a cracker.

Biltong wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Well reading too much into the open game Japan played is going to provide false perceptions.

Yes, Japan played at a level and intensity we have not seen from them.

But lets be honest, South Africa was blase,  if they were switched on Japan would not win. You can argue as much as you want that is true.

South Africa dismissed that they could lose, you can even see it in their attitude late in the second half.

Don't think the Japan result tells you how to beat the boks, because an open running game has a few requirements.

Firstly you need players with high quality, I am not saying Scotland don't have them, I am saying they must be man for man better than the Boks. And although I have not watched much Scottish test rugby, I don't think man for man the Scots are better across the park.

But then you also need a superior game, superior breakdown work, superior scrum, etc etc.

I will probably be lynched for this.

If South Africa come out to play, focused and as a team united, Scotland won't outplay them.

But, then again, we don't know if the will be united and focused

I agree to an extent. If South Africa come out an play to the best of their ability I can't see Scotland winning.

That being said, Scotland have a talented group of guys, conditioned well and a game plan that plays to their Strengths. I reckon south Africa will win, but IMO they will need to play at their best to do so if Scotland come out and execute their game plan to the best of their ability.

Should be a cracker.

Yes, South Africa will be pushed, we know that, if they come half cocked to the fight, they will certainly lose

reallybored wrote:

Biltong wrote:Well reading too much into the open game Japan played is going to provide false perceptions.

Yes, Japan played at a level and intensity we have not seen from them.

But lets be honest, South Africa was blase,  if they were switched on Japan would not win. You can argue as much as you want that is true.

South Africa dismissed that they could lose, you can even see it in their attitude late in the second half.

Don't think the Japan result tells you how to beat the boks, because an open running game has a few requirements.

Firstly you need players with high quality, I am not saying Scotland don't have them, I am saying they must be man for man better than the Boks. And although I have not watched much Scottish test rugby, I don't think man for man the Scots are better across the park.

But then you also need a superior game, superior breakdown work, superior scrum, etc etc.

I will probably be lynched for this.

If South Africa come out to play, focused and as a team united, Scotland won't outplay them.

But, then again, we don't know if the will be united and focused

If it was the only match the Boks had lost all year, I'd be inclined to agree but you've been poor all year.  

There's a reason you're now 6th in the World rankings.

alive555 wrote:
Sounds like Russell is out of WC.

alive555 wrote:

Biltong wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Well reading too much into the open game Japan played is going to provide false perceptions.

Yes, Japan played at a level and intensity we have not seen from them.

But lets be honest, South Africa was blase,  if they were switched on Japan would not win. You can argue as much as you want that is true.

South Africa dismissed that they could lose, you can even see it in their attitude late in the second half.

Don't think the Japan result tells you how to beat the boks, because an open running game has a few requirements.

Firstly you need players with high quality, I am not saying Scotland don't have them, I am saying they must be man for man better than the Boks. And although I have not watched much Scottish test rugby, I don't think man for man the Scots are better across the park.

But then you also need a superior game, superior breakdown work, superior scrum, etc etc.

I will probably be lynched for this.

If South Africa come out to play, focused and as a team united, Scotland won't outplay them.

But, then again, we don't know if the will be united and focused

I agree to an extent. If South Africa come out an play to the best of their ability I can't see Scotland winning.

That being said, Scotland have a talented group of guys, conditioned well and a game plan that plays to their Strengths. I reckon south Africa will win, but IMO they will need to play at their best to do so if Scotland come out and execute their game plan to the best of their ability.

Should be a cracker.

Yes, South Africa will be pushed, we know that, if they come half cocked to the fight, they will certainly lose

Sounds like Russell is out of WC.

We needed him for this match badly.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

alive555 wrote:
Sounds like Russell is out of WC.

Where did you see that??

RDW_Scotland wrote:

alive555 wrote:
Sounds like Russell is out of WC.

Where did you see that??

highland_scot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

alive555 wrote:
Sounds like Russell is out of WC.

Where did you see that??

Not sure - here's the most recent thing I see on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/snsgroup/status/648831405523386368

highland_scot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

alive555 wrote:
Sounds like Russell is out of WC.

Where did you see that??

Not sure - here's the most recent thing I see on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/snsgroup/status/648831405523386368

RDW_Scotland wrote:

highland_scot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

alive555 wrote:
Sounds like Russell is out of WC.

Where did you see that??

Not sure - here's the most recent thing I see on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/snsgroup/status/648831405523386368

I don't think we can read much into that - his ankle was always going to be immobilized as a precaution.

In other news, how scrawny is Russell?? Despite being a pro rugby player for a few years now he certainly doesn't have the modern rugby player physique!

IanBru wrote:

highland_scot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

alive555 wrote:
Sounds like Russell is out of WC.

Where did you see that??

Not sure - here's the most recent thing I see on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/snsgroup/status/648831405523386368

Truth be told, most of my internet dating pictures look like that.

Except with less muscle, less pool, and less of a smile.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good interview with Richie Gray (no, not that one) about his rise into the SA coaching team

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34385758

I see his contract expires after the WC - I hope the SRU are doing all they can to sign him! He's massively improved SA's rucking game.

alive555 wrote:

IanBru wrote:

highland_scot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

alive555 wrote:
Sounds like Russell is out of WC.

Where did you see that??

Not sure - here's the most recent thing I see on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/snsgroup/status/648831405523386368

Truth be told, most of my internet dating pictures look like that.

Except with less muscle, less pool, and less of a smile.

Scotland will know in 24 hours whether Finn Russell’s participation at #RWC2015 is over die to an ankle injury

https://twitter.com/eatsleeprugby/status/648835187934146560

tigertattie wrote:Erm, BoD and Carter are by no means scrawny!

They are not built like Nadolo or picamoles but they are pretty solid units

Wee Finn is really quite wee by international rugby player standards! But he's a quick footed wee fella who is designed to pass the ball into space for others rather than trying to bosh up the middle himself!

Biltong wrote:hmmm, I paid no attention to the world rankings when we were 2nd for three years, nor do I pay any attention to them now.

reallybored wrote:

Biltong wrote:hmmm, I paid no attention to the world rankings when we were 2nd for three years, nor do I pay any attention to them now.

Granted they tend not to have much relevance on game day but they do indicate recent form.  

NZ Herald wrote:


NZ
2-0 (9pts, 1st in Pool C)
This was relatively clear cut in only that the teams that should be starting to emerge as real contenders have underwhelmed almost as much as the All Blacks did against Namibia. The All Blacks are trying to shift through the gears but like an old Holden Kingswood, the links are a bit iffy and moving that column-change between 2nd and 3rd is proving tricky. They allowed only 57m on the ground and yet conceded 14 cheap points.

That has to be a slight worry.

Ireland
2-0 (10pts, 1st in Pool D)
With 13 tries, they trail only Australia on this count. But there seems to be more method and less madness to Ireland's approach at this tournament. It's tempting to lay this all at the door of new Zealand coach Joe Schmidt, so we will. A largely second-string team did enough against Romania to suggest the men in green will not suffer too much if they lose a few players. The same cannot be said for other squads. One thing they need to improve is the lineout, where they rank in the bottom five.

Oz
2-0 (9pts, 1st in Pool A)
Was anybody enjoying Wales and England knocking seven bells out of each other quite as much as Michael Cheika? Compared to the other group heavyweights, they have enjoyed an armchair ride into the tournament, meeting a Fiji side off short rest and then facing the tournament's worst side in Uruguay. So this is hardly indicative of what me might see later, but Australia's three three-quarters and fullback made a combined 424m between them against the South Americans.

France
2-0 (9pts, 2nd in Pool D)
Like Ireland, they ran the bench against Romania and came away with a functional, relatively stress-free victory. The Celts and the Gauls meet in the penultimate match of pool play, in Cardiff on October 12 (NZT). With Italy being so poor, there is a sense that this pool is providing nothing but a few strenuously opposed training sessions until that big date.

Argentina
1-1 (5pts, 2nd in Pool C)
Los Pumas didn't have the luxury of being able to run out their second-stringers against Georgia at Gloucester, but they have a big break now until they meet Tonga at Leicester. The way Pool C was set up - with the two big guns meeting first up and three relatively weak sides - meant squad dynamics were always going to be difficult to manage. At this early stage, however, Argentina look well set up for this sort of tournament.


Scotland
2-0 (10pts, 1st in Pool B)
I wrote last week that I thought Scotland would top their pool, which elicited this entirely reasonable response from reader Jim Currie: "Not sure how you came to that conclusion, Dylan. Unless you think Scotland will beat [South Africa]. Obviously if [South Africa] beat the Scots and everyone else, as they probably will, the Japanese victory, while great in an emotional sense for everyone but the Boks, won't mean much." That's the strange thing, I'm actually starting to believe in Scotland. It's a disease that's catching.

South Africa
1-1 (7pts, 2nd in Pool B)
I'm not getting sucked into thinking that a thumping victory over a desperately average Samoa side represents a miracle cure for the ills of Springbok rugby, but it does make me convinced they'll escape Pool B despite the Nippon embarrassment. Still, a better side than Samoa will make those 15 penalties conceded and 11 turnovers lost count. The broken jaw suffered by Jean de Villiers, while a sad way for a classy warrior to leave the game, will not hurt the campaign.

Wales
2-0 (9pts, 2nd in Pool A)
What?! Wales win one of the great RWC contests and they slide down? But the latest World Rugby rankings have them second in the world?

Let the scorn flow down from the Valleys, while Rankings explains its logic. Wales' injury list in the backs is horrific. Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny and Rhys Webb were gone before the tournament started, Corey Allen after the first game, and now centre Scott Williams and wing Hallam Amos are gone while fullback Liam Williams will be seeing stars for a couple more games yet. This England win, while one of the great all-time contests, was not particularly high quality, and it almost felt like Wales' final. Still, it was bloody great to see them so happy.

England
1-1 (6pts, 3rd in Pool A)
Not everyone else is, but I'm giving Chris Robshaw a free pass on The Decision. I don't care how well Owen Farrell's going, at that point of the match it's a 50-50 kick at best and it's chewing time off the clock. At worst he could have expected a half-decent lineout drive to earn another penalty, but this time in a more comfortable 15m in slot. What was unforgivable, was calling a front lob to two in the lineout, the easiest ball to defend. This, to Rankings, was the bone-in-the-brain moment.

Japan
1-1 (4pts, 4th in Pool B)
Their lack of bonus points will likely bite them, as will the unconscionable scheduling that had them playing their Pool B heavyweights within a few days of each other. They were far more enterprising than Scotland, despite the best blinkered efforts of referee John Lacey, until about 10 minutes into the second half when you could see all the fuel being drained from the tanks. World Rugby CEO @brettgosper needs to punch himself really hard in the face if he ever finds himself tweeting about how Japan has more rest days in this tournament than any other team.


Fiji
0-2 (0pts, 4th in Pool A)
It was never meant to be for Fiji after being handed the ultimate unlucky draw and then facing a fired-up England in a home opener and then a fresh Australia on short rest. Give who they get next? Wales, at Wales' home ground no less. However, Rankings believes they still have a big performance in them. Don't be at all surprised to see them give Wales an almighty fright, but they need to be given more licence to play their natural game.

Samoa
1-1 (4pts, 3rd in Pool B)
Rankings is going to hand the Manu a partial pass for getting a six-tries-to-nil thrashing by South Africa at Villa Park. The Boks were always going to respond to their Japan humiliation and if there's one team that Samoa will never physically intimidate, it's South Africa. However, there was no excuse for rolling over and having their tummies tickled and that woeful 82.6 per cent tackle success is not going to win a lot of games.


Italy
1-1 (4pts, 3rd in Pool D)

They climb two spots on the tenuous grounds of beating Canada... and even that looked in doubt for long periods. The way they closed the game out was, in a sense, quite impressive. They have, with a bit of luck, inspirational captain Sergio Parisse to come back into the selection frame and they still have a chance of qualifying for the quarters if they can cause a massive boilover against Ireland at the Olympic Stadium next week.


Georgia
1-1 (4pts, 3rd in Pool C)
If you were set up a dais and were today to hand out the medals for top tacklers at the RWC, it would be an all Georgian podium. Taking bronze with 30 would be lock Giorgi Nemsadze, silver goes to gargantuan captain Mamuka Gorgodze with 32, while openside Viktor Kolelishvili's 35 leads the way. Oh, and back Merab Sharikadze is a meritorious seventh with 27. You do wonder how long they can keep this up for, especially with the All Blacks lurking.

Canada
0-2 (1 pt, 4th in Pool C)
In nearly every statistical category apart from the one that counts most, Canada were more impressive than Six Nations opponents Italy. They made more metres, made more breaks, beat more defenders, made fewer tackles and missed way less than the Europeans, yet could not find enough finishing touches. Down by five with less than 10 minutes to go, and after a period of sustained attack, they took the wrong option in kicking for goal. They never got another look in.

The rest: 16. USA (down 2) 17. Romania (nc) 18. Tonga (down 2) 19. Namibia (up 1) 20. Uruguay (down 1)

tigertattie wrote:Ok, don't shout at me here! I know it's a bit fancyful

Am I right in thinking that if we beat the boks and score 4 tries in the process, no matter what any other results are, no one could beat us to the top spot in the group?

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Ok, don't shout at me here! I know it's a bit fancyful

Am I right in thinking that if we beat the boks and score 4 tries in the process, no matter what any other results are, no one could beat us to the top spot in the group?

That is correct.

George Carlin wrote:Are we honestly banking on a sunny day in Newcastle? 

jimbopip wrote:Hey, Bru lives there....the sun always shines on out of him.