Scotland v South Africa, 3 October

First topic message reminder :

       
SCOTLAND V SOUTH AFRICA
3 October 2015
KO: 16:45 BST
St. James' Park, Newcastle

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Touch judges: Chris Pollock (New Zealand) & Leighton Hodges (Wales)
Television match official: George Ayoub (Australia)

A. Head to Head

25 Played 25
5 Won 20
0 Drawn 0
20 Lost 5
270 Points 652

B. Recent Form

28 June 2014
Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth
55 – 6 to South Africa

17 November 2013
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 28 to South Africa

15 June 2013
Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
30 – 17 to South Africa

17 November 2012
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 21 to South Africa

20 November 2010
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
21 – 17 to Scotland

15 November 2008
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 14 to South Africa

C. Teams

SCOTLAND
 
15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 35 caps; 9 tries, 2 pens, 51 points

14 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps; 8 tries, 40 points
13 Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 31 caps; 4 tries, 20 points
11 Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 22 caps; 10 tries, 50 points

10 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps; 2 tries, 6 cons, 9 pens, 1 drop, 52 points
09 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester) – 43 caps; 3 tries, 51 cons, 92 pens, 393 points


01 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps
02 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps
03 Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – 5 caps; 1 try, 5 points
04 Richie Gray (Castres) – 48 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
05 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 16 caps; 1 try, 5 points
06 Josh Strauss (Glasgow Warriors) – 2 caps
07 Blair Cowan (London Irish) – 13 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
08 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) – 29 caps


16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 91 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 49 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
18 Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons) – 9 caps; 1 try, 5 points
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps
20 Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby) – 7 caps
22 Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps; 1 try, 1 con, 1 pen, 10 points
23 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) – 98 caps; 14 tries, 70 points

SOUTH AFRICA

01. Tendai Mtawarira
02. Bismarck Du Plessis
03. Jannie Du Plessis
04. Eben Etzebeth
05. Lodewyk De Jager
06. Francois Louw
07. Schalk Burger
08. Duane Vermeulen

09. Fourie Du Preez (captain)
10. Handre Pollard
11. Bryan Habana
12. Damian De Allende
13. Jesse Kriel
14. JP Pietersen
15. Willie Le Roux

16. Adriaan Strauss
17. Trevor Nyakane
18. Frans Malherbe
19. Pieter-Steph Du Toit
20. Willem Alberts
21. Ruan Pienaar
22. Pat Lambie
23. Jan Serfontein

I'm at half time and those ratings are looking high. Vernon just isn't an international rugby player. Crying shame we had both Dunbar and Taylor out.

Agreed on Cowan though. Useful contribution.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'm at half time and those ratings are looking high. Vernon just isn't an international rugby player. Crying shame we had both Dunbar and Taylor out.

Agreed on Cowan though. Useful contribution.

We were a bit better 2nd half...

I took 6 to mean average

I would suggest heavy use of the "fast forward x6" button on your remote now, FES.

Well I'm on the hour mark, and the only positive is the fact that Duncan Weir can motor for a fat kid.

Richie Gray, Cowan and Strauss comfortably our best players.

A lot of people thought Strauss played well but I'm not one of them. I just don't see it.

He takes the ball in sure, but I'm sorry I just got the feeling he was going through the motions today, like visiting your inlaws, it was just something you had to do. Maybe because he was facing the boks. Same with Nel.

I just expect more from a test player.

Hardie, Cowan.. they've from day one showed their passion for the shirt because they have scottish blood in their veins. Strauss looked like he was their to pick up a cheque.

You have to expect more.

Strokosch would have been a better bet.

If Strokosh had been playing we would have had even fewer effective ball carriers - that would have been a disaster

Yeah Strokosh shouldn't be anywhere near the team and Ashe and Barclay should be there instead of Wilson and Cowan, ah well if only..

yet the boks were manic in attack. Denton and Strauss together don't cut it, its one or the other. No point having 2 good ball carriers if neither are effective ruck operators/tacklers.

Agree with a few about Strauss, don't think he was effective today, ball carrying wasn't great and didn't get stuck in around the rucks.
Against Samoa we need to really slow their ball down and make a nuisance of ourselves at the breakdown like Japan did to them.
Against Samoa I'd go 6 Cowan 7 hardie 8 Denton. Strauss would be on the bench.

Backs midfield was very under powered and had very little go forward. The commentators kept mentioning how vernon was an ex back row and how he is 6ft 5 and could match the boks midfield. Maybe if he wasn't built like Rodney trotter then he may have been able to compete.

Yeah Strauss was great, the only one making yards.

I wouldn't say Strauss was great - but he did make some yards and was OK

One good break from weir does not make up for the school boy kicking and playing 400 feet behind the gain line

Terrible terrible player

Riskysports wrote:One good break from weir does not make up for the school boy kicking and playing 400 feet behind the gain line

Terrible terrible player

Weirs positioning in defence for the boks2nd try was terrible, stood far too wide giving pietersen an easy gap to run at.

I missed a chunk of the 2nd half. Here is a question. Should Scotland ask the citing commissioner to look at the Pietersen tackle. I have seen a clip of it and there doesn't seem to be much in it.

cakeordeath wrote:I missed a chunk of the 2nd half. Here is a question. Should Scotland ask the citing commissioner  to look at the Pietersen tackle. I have seen a clip of it and there doesn't seem to be much in it.

No sense in that, it would just be sour grapes. It could have gone yellow, but Pieterson got away with it and it was certainly not a bad one. You could also say Hoggy could have got one for the dive!

BigGee wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:I missed a chunk of the 2nd half. Here is a question. Should Scotland ask the citing commissioner  to look at the Pietersen tackle. I have seen a clip of it and there doesn't seem to be much in it.

No sense in that, it would just be sour grapes. It could have gone yellow, but Pieterson got away with it and it was certainly not a bad one. You could also say Hoggy could have got one for the dive!

Yeah that was a dick move from him.

Been hearing some negative comments about the match day experience from this game - a few people I've spoken to saying it was actually quite an unsavoury atmosphere.

Football fan-like behaviour, a lot of people who had far too much to drink and were just being annoying to everyone else, and one guy with his young son was surrounded by a large group of burly, very drunk Bok fans who were actually getting very aggressive with each other and almost breaking out in fights! Not the nicest environment to watch the rugby with your son.

Anyone have a similar experience or not think it was that bad?

I wasn't there, but a few mates were. They said it was all fine, no problems, they were sat behind a couple of South Africa fans and they were having some banter.

Only issue was a couple of drunk SA women who had no clues of the laws of the game, but that was it.

Riskysports wrote:One good break from weir does not make up for the school boy kicking and playing 400 feet behind the gain line

Terrible terrible player

Watched the first half agswin watching Weir carefully- can't bear to watch any more.


plays by weir goes like this

1) Defensive ruck on the 22. Pass to Weir. Long infeild clearing kick. Didn't look like touch was intended. sat deep

2)Same

3) Pen kick. Made 40 yards from midfeild

4) pen kick 30 m made

5) ruck ball midfeild. lying flat. gave good pass

6) Kick off - good

7) Ruck on scotlands 10 m line. Not too deep, crisp pass

8) Long kick from inside our half. return kick made. Scotland gain 20 m

9) Defensive kick inside 22 ( passed back into 22). long but right to their winger

10) Midfeild ruck - standing not too deep. good pass

11) Midfeild lying deep, chip over line. Perfect chip but outside back offside

12) Poor kick. Missed touch

13) Ruck ball, lying flat, good flat pass

14) Ruckj halfway. Decent kick to corner, great positioning / take by SA for mark. Return kick to touch. Scotland gain 20 m

15) Ruck Scot 10m line lying flatish, good crisp pass

16) Lying flat, good pass

AS I said - I couldn't bear to watch any more. ~What was noticable Weir was not getting any ball from first phase only from ruck ball. Lying very deep in defensive positions but long kicks and no real alternative In more attacking positions he was running forward fast from ther deep position so actually taking the ball fairly flat and passing well.

One mistake in the first half - the missed touch. Gave a number of good passes and not from too deep if not as Flat as Russell sometimes stands

RDW, got to say that your post runs counter to everything I saw/ heard at the match. You must bear in mind that I'm old enough to have considered Stephen Biko and the, prisoner, Nelson Mandela to be heroes and your average white Africaaner to be morally reprehensible at best and a Stockbridge dwelling Luvvie supporting lawyer at worst.
Caz, the quiet Bokkie, and I got on the 8 am from London ad I unpacked breakfast; a selection of cold meats, cheeses and breads and a selection of about 8 bottles of my favourite Scottish beers. I figured this would warm us up for the day ahead. Caz's contribution was a 14 pint keg of bitter from our local micro-brewery. Oh, and a bag of home made biltong. The train was crammed to the gunnels and green jerseys were everywhere. The buffet ran out of booze by York and the atmosphere was convivial and jolly throughout.

When we got to Noocassel we met the Stoneless Bru and saw a bit of the toon before hitting the Fanzone where we met up with most of Caz's extended family. Lots of beer and some of Uncle Willem's biltong and again a wonderful bouyant mood.

During the game I sat among a group of Bokkie fans, and it does make my heart sing to see young black Boks wearing the green jersey and wrapped in the rainbow flag, and again they were great company (especially the guy who brought me a beer at half time).

Then back to the Fanzone for the England game and drinking till gone midnight. No trouble, no aggro, no nonsense at all. Oh, on the way out we saw AN ENGLISH drunk being ejected. The stewards turned to us and said, "Ahm verrry sorry tha had to see that gents. Ah do hope it husn't spoiled yer evenin like."

To be honest, I was really impressed by both sets of fans and thought the general atmosphere was everything rugby should be.

There were only two unsavoury incidents in the whole day.

Firstly, a rather dusky young lady approached Bru and asked if he, "would like a guided tour of the Hagia Sophia" and Bru replied that he wasn't really a fan of "Byzantian architechture".

Secondly, a young lady from the local hospital for stray children approached me and asked, "Are you Ian's father?"

Young Ian spent the rest of the evening on his mobile beseeching his mother, "Say it ain't so mom. Say it ain't so."

Jimbo, I swear you are getting worse than me mucker !

In what sense my old shagger?

jimbopip wrote:RDW, got to say that your post runs counter to everything I saw/ heard at the match. You must bear in mind that I'm old enough to have considered Stephen Biko and the, prisoner, Nelson Mandela to be heroes and your average white Africaaner to be morally reprehensible at best and a Stockbridge dwelling Luvvie supporting lawyer at worst.
Caz, the quiet Bokkie, and I got on the 8 am from London ad I unpacked breakfast; a selection of cold meats, cheeses and breads and a selection of about 8 bottles of my favourite Scottish beers. I figured this would warm us up for the day ahead. Caz's contribution was a 14 pint keg of bitter from our local micro-brewery. Oh, and a bag of home made biltong. The train was crammed to the gunnels and green jerseys were everywhere. The buffet ran out of booze by York and the atmosphere was convivial and jolly throughout.

When we got to Noocassel we met the Stoneless Bru and saw a bit of the toon before hitting the Fanzone where we met up with most of Caz's extended family. Lots of beer and some of Uncle Willem's biltong and again a wonderful bouyant mood.

During the game I sat among a group of Bokkie fans, and it does make my heart sing to see young black Boks wearing the green jersey and wrapped in the rainbow flag, and again they were great company (especially the guy who brought me a beer at half time).

Then back to the Fanzone for the England game and drinking till gone midnight. No trouble, no aggro, no nonsense at all. Oh, on the way out we saw AN ENGLISH drunk being ejected. The stewards turned to us and said, "Ahm verrry sorry tha had to see that gents. Ah do hope it husn't spoiled yer evenin like."

To be honest, I was really impressed by both sets of fans and thought the general atmosphere was everything rugby should be.

There were only two unsavoury incidents in the whole day.

Firstly, a rather dusky young lady approached Bru and asked if he, "would like a guided tour of the Hagia Sophia" and Bru replied that he wasn't really a fan of "Byzantian architechture".

Secondly, a young lady from the local hospital for stray children approached me and asked, "Are you Ian's father?"

Young Ian spent the rest of the evening on his mobile beseeching his mother, "Say it ain't so mom. Say it ain't so."

I am really looking forward to my trip up north next Saturday now, probably won't be quite as many Samoan fans there I guess!

Gee, arrange to meet the Brumeister. He's great company.

p.s. Ian, I never got round to ordering a pint "in a thin glass" but we did have a pint in the pub where that scene was filmed.

Glad to hear it seems to be the minority.

Or maybe jimbo and bru were the irritating drunks that everyone was getting annoyed with!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Glad to hear it seems to be the minority.

Or maybe jimbo and bru were the irritating drunks that everyone was getting annoyed with!

Hard to imagine that!

I am meeting my son, who is coming up from Manchester, so will have to keep reasonably respectable and will only be there a couple of hours either side of the match. I remember Newcastle fondly though, was up there a few times in my student days, always a great weekend!

I'm going down this weekend with my Dad and hugely looking forward to it. Should be an awesome game.

Fes, if you're looking for a watering hole, I can recommend the Bridge Tavern - I know Jim can back me up.

lol - Hope Bilt not watching the SA vs US game - 1 min in and a neck tackle - :-)

Riskysports wrote:lol - Hope Bilt not watching the SA vs US game - 1 min in and a neck tackle - :-)

Those pesky USA players should stop dropping down into tackles - they should just run vertically upright like a man!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Riskysports wrote:lol - Hope Bilt not watching the SA vs US game - 1 min in and a neck tackle - :-)

Those pesky USA players should stop dropping down into tackles - they should just run vertically upright like a man!

Was surprised it was not a yellow in actual fact

Riskysports wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Riskysports wrote:lol - Hope Bilt not watching the SA vs US game - 1 min in and a neck tackle - :-)

Those pesky USA players should stop dropping down into tackles - they should just run vertically upright like a man!

Was surprised it was not a yellow in actual fact

It's a risky sport, Riskysports.

Was that held up, I thought you were allowed 7/8 attempts to get it down

I have not quite kept up with the conversation but hasn't Hogg started every match and played at least an hour? Surely they will rest him and put Maitland in at 15.

An addendum to that is I expected Lamont to get to 100 caps this World Cup and I believe he is on 99. They would likely start him on his 100th and I don't fancy him in the quarter finals lining up against Australia or Wales (assuming Scotland don't screw this game up). For me, he will be on one wing and Seymour will be on the other.

Hazel Sapling wrote:I have not quite kept up with the conversation but hasn't Hogg started every match and played at least an hour? Surely they will rest him and put Maitland in at 15.

An addendum to that is I expected Lamont to get to 100 caps this World Cup and I believe he is on 99. They would likely start him on his 100th and I don't fancy him in the quarter finals lining up against Australia or Wales (assuming Scotland don't screw this game up). For me, he will be on one wing and Seymour will be on the other.

I think you are in the wrong thread Hazel

I am very much in the wrong thread. I thought I was in the Scotland vs Samoa one

Hazel Sapling wrote:I am very much in the wrong thread. I thought I was in the Scotland vs Samoa one

lol

IanBru wrote:Fes, if you're looking for a watering hole, I can recommend the Bridge Tavern - I know Jim can back me up.

Excellent - I was planning on doing some "legal research" this afternoon to come up with exactly that sort of conclusion.

Fes, you must specify "In a thin glass"

I always do.