Scotland v South Africa, 3 October

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SCOTLAND V SOUTH AFRICA
3 October 2015
KO: 16:45 BST
St. James' Park, Newcastle

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Touch judges: Chris Pollock (New Zealand) & Leighton Hodges (Wales)
Television match official: George Ayoub (Australia)

A. Head to Head

25 Played 25
5 Won 20
0 Drawn 0
20 Lost 5
270 Points 652

B. Recent Form

28 June 2014
Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth
55 – 6 to South Africa

17 November 2013
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 28 to South Africa

15 June 2013
Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
30 – 17 to South Africa

17 November 2012
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 21 to South Africa

20 November 2010
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
21 – 17 to Scotland

15 November 2008
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 14 to South Africa

C. Teams

SCOTLAND
 
15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 35 caps; 9 tries, 2 pens, 51 points

14 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps; 8 tries, 40 points
13 Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 31 caps; 4 tries, 20 points
11 Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 22 caps; 10 tries, 50 points

10 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps; 2 tries, 6 cons, 9 pens, 1 drop, 52 points
09 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester) – 43 caps; 3 tries, 51 cons, 92 pens, 393 points


01 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps
02 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps
03 Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – 5 caps; 1 try, 5 points
04 Richie Gray (Castres) – 48 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
05 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 16 caps; 1 try, 5 points
06 Josh Strauss (Glasgow Warriors) – 2 caps
07 Blair Cowan (London Irish) – 13 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
08 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) – 29 caps


16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 91 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 49 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
18 Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons) – 9 caps; 1 try, 5 points
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps
20 Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby) – 7 caps
22 Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps; 1 try, 1 con, 1 pen, 10 points
23 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) – 98 caps; 14 tries, 70 points

SOUTH AFRICA

01. Tendai Mtawarira
02. Bismarck Du Plessis
03. Jannie Du Plessis
04. Eben Etzebeth
05. Lodewyk De Jager
06. Francois Louw
07. Schalk Burger
08. Duane Vermeulen

09. Fourie Du Preez (captain)
10. Handre Pollard
11. Bryan Habana
12. Damian De Allende
13. Jesse Kriel
14. JP Pietersen
15. Willie Le Roux

16. Adriaan Strauss
17. Trevor Nyakane
18. Frans Malherbe
19. Pieter-Steph Du Toit
20. Willem Alberts
21. Ruan Pienaar
22. Pat Lambie
23. Jan Serfontein

the boks usually have multiple ball carriers to envy about. To be honest only Vermeulen worries me and he's not quite right yet... I mean still a huge threat but not a 2014 threat.

De Jager will be a sub. Alberts is not fit, Burger is no longer the beast he was. Bissie work has become more ruck operated.

De Allende is a beast but Kriel, Habana, Le Roux, Pietersen are more about clever lines and pace.

5 years ago you had 10 guys charging onto the field like bulls facing a matador. Boks still look superior on paper but they are no longer a bash the door down side.

Of course the Boks can be exhausted. We "won" one second half last year in the Rugby championships. This year again we only won one - and even that comes with the caveat that Argentina still won by 12 points.

rodders wrote:... they badly underestimated Japan.

If the they play like they did against Samoa they'll smash Scotland...

The problem with this logic is that it assumes Japan and Samoa were equal in their displays and the Boks simply upped their game. Surely you have to factor in the clinical performance that Japan put in. They made very few errors, which presented very few opportunities for the Boks to capitalise on. Their scrum was of particular note, as they completed their scrum very fast ensuring they did not concede penalties to the clearly superior Bok scrum. On balance, the low error count and precision going forward won them that game.

Sounds like Samoa on the other hand made a host of errors from which the Boks imposed their game. The issue for Scotland is that we have made too many errors against weaker opposition which we cannot afford to repeat against stronger opposition.

Win the collisions and stay relatively error free and we can beat the Boks. However, we're deluding ourselves if we think it will take anything less than a top drawer, full 80 min performance - and that's not something this Scotland team has done yet.

Never mind this game on Saturday, the most important news is that I'm 47 points in the lead in Risky's fantasy rugby league!

Can't see it lasting though - I've got 3 transfers left...

RDW_Scotland wrote:Never mind this game on Saturday, the most important news is that I'm 47 points in the lead in Risky's fantasy rugby league!

Can't see it lasting though - I've got 3 transfers left...

I'm playing the long game, chum. All my transfers still to come.

That, or possibly I have the attention span of a Paisley goldfish and get distracted by something shiny outside my office window.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Never mind this game on Saturday, the most important news is that I'm 47 points in the lead in Risky's fantasy rugby league!

Can't see it lasting though - I've got 3 transfers left...

I'm starting to give up on the league already! I can't be bothered keeping track of who is plaing against which diddy team that week! It becomes a total lottery!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Never mind this game on Saturday, the most important news is that I'm 47 points in the lead in Risky's fantasy rugby league!

Can't see it lasting though - I've got 3 transfers left...

I think you get more transfers after the group stages

Once the tournament begins, you have an allocation of 15 transfers to play with during the Group Phase (matches 1-40). A further 10 transfers can be made during the Knock-out Phase (matches 41-48).* Between the Group and Knock-out Phases, unlimited transfers can be made for free.

Yeah I saw that, but we're only halfway through the games!

My parents were at a memorial event in London for a lot of the expat community, and they spoke to someone who knows Ruaridh Jackson really well. They texted him, and apparently he has not been called up.

This either means that Horne is being pulled in as back-up (or even first choice) stand-off next to Dunky, or Russell's injury is not tournament-ending.

Admittedly, it's a rather spurious source of intelligence. I feel like Donald Rumsfeld:

there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Hopefully the squad get a decent rest ahead of the Boks match because the pieces are falling into place for Cotter.

The Edinburgh trio are doing the business up-front, really optimistic about the scrum battle.

Richie had a good game against the US and Jonny will be industrious as ever after his rest, need this pair to have big games to match the Bok pack.

Denton has come into good form and will be fresh, Strauss definitely grew into the US match and Hardie has justified his selection in my book.  Not the most balanced back-row at the World Cup but very physical.  

The Boks will definitely be a physical step-up but our pack matched the French in Paris and they're a pretty brutal outfit.  We've got one of the biggest starting packs at the World Cup at around 920kg but it's mobile too with the likes of Dickinson and the Grays in the front-five.  They may have some pretty imposing figures but with the Grays, Strauss and Denton we've got our own big ball-carriers.  

Laidlaw has been leading the troops well and kicking his goals, plus he's constantly in the ref's ear.  Russell is getting better and better, fingers crossed the ankle isn't an issue.

Scott made a positive impact against the US and looks to be finding his form after getting some game-time under the belt.  Bennett is delivering on the potential we've all been waiting to see, hopefully he's able to recover well after two full matches in 5 days.

Great options in the back-three with Maitland, Seymour and Visser all scoring, while Lamont's form has been very solid.  Seymour is an obvious choice and Maitland showed enough against the US to merit selection imo.

And at the back our game-changer is looking razor sharp.


I think we're really starting to see Cotter's mark on the team, once we settle down with some sustained possession we play pretty straight forward but effective rugby.  This is the best Scottish team I've seen in over a decade and I'm confident they can beat the Boks but our defence can't stand off them, we must keep the mistakes and indiscipline down, our pack needs to properly get stuck into them and we keep the ball moving.

Blair Cowan called up.

bench ?

Probably a good move - we don't need 4 locks now that we're back to one game a week, and Cowan represents an improvement from Strokosh and Wilson IMO - should have been in there from the start.

I'm wondering whether we're going to see a 6/2 bench split for this one - perhaps S-H-C and Horne. S-H-C covering 9 and wing, Horne covering everywhere else.

RDW_Scotland wrote:
I'm wondering whether we're going to see a 6/2 bench split for this one - perhaps S-H-C and Horne.  S-H-C covering 9 and wing, Horne covering everywhere else.

I'd be worried if Horne had to cover 15. As good a centre as he is, he's had a few nightmares for Glasgow when he was initially picked there. Lineen moving him away from 15 to 13 was, I believe, the catalyst for Horne's rise in the team since.

alive555 wrote:Blair Cowan called up.

bench ?

I'd be happy with that - 6. Denton, 7. Hardie, 8. Strauss, 20. Cowan

Blair can cover 6(ish) and 7 himself, with Denton shifting to 8 if Strauss takes a knock.

alive555 wrote:Blair Cowan called up.

bench ?

Hopefully Hardie will be fit for Saturday and Cowan will bench, if Hardie doesn't recover in time then Cowan straight in to the team for me as Wilson wasn't great at the weekend.

MacKnocked-on wrote:

Hopefully Hardie will be fit for Saturday and Cowan will bench, if Hardie doesn't recover in time then Cowan straight in to the team for me as Wilson wasn't great at the weekend.

Agreed. The fact that Cowan has been called up instead of Harley (at a time when we are a lock short) suggests that Vern is more concerned about Hardie's availability than perhaps we thought.

IanBru wrote:

alive555 wrote:Blair Cowan called up.

bench ?

I'd be happy with that - 6. Denton, 7. Hardie, 8. Strauss, 20. Cowan

Blair can cover 6(ish) and 7 himself, with Denton shifting to 8 if Strauss takes a knock.

If that is the starting backrow do people think that Strauss will be at 8 over Denton?

I'd have Strauss at 6 personally - put Denton at 8 and give him instruction just to concentrate on getting us over the gainline. Strauss has a better all round game and is more suited to 6 than Denton IMO.

I agree with mr "top of the league" - Denton is not a 6. He's not a work horse and not very good at getting involved in the close quarter stuff! He likes hanging about behind rucks to take the bosh ball!

Where I don't agree though is having Horne as backup to  15! The thought of him being the last defender or having to go toe to toe with Willie Le Roux is terrifying! I can't see Hogg continuing to play so much rugby! He'll need a rest so Maitland will need to be on the bench imo!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

IanBru wrote:

alive555 wrote:Blair Cowan called up.

bench ?

I'd be happy with that - 6. Denton, 7. Hardie, 8. Strauss, 20. Cowan

Blair can cover 6(ish) and 7 himself, with Denton shifting to 8 if Strauss takes a knock.

If that is the starting backrow do people think that Strauss will be at 8 over Denton?

I'd have Strauss at 6 personally - put Denton at 8 and give him instruction just to concentrate on getting us over the gainline.  Strauss has a better all round game and is more suited to 6 than Denton IMO.

All good points. I guess I tend to see the 8 and 6 as somewhat similar positions in terms of function - the only reason why I put Strauss at 8 is that I think he's a bit more solid controlling the ball at the back of the scrum. Otherwise I'd have the two of them performing the same work as they normally would, regardless of the numbers on their backs.

If we need lock cover too then Harley could have provided that as well as having done a shift in the back row. That said, I very much welcome having another openside in the squad. Hope that Hardie is cleared to play because there is is fairly discernible gap in quality between him and BC.  

I would so much rather have Barclay join but it seems I just have to get over the fact that the Verninator just doesn't like him.

Got to be Denton at 8, I think he's better a getting across the gain line than Strauss who's better at the other stuff required from the back row. The two of them should certainly play, no question of choosing between them for 8 when the alternatives are Stroker or Wilson at 6.
Horne isn't needed to cover 15, if Hogg wasn't fit then Maitland plays there, with Seymour on one wing you've still got a choice of Visser or Lamont for the other wing, both of whom are in decent form in their own way. Whoever isn't in the starting team is on the bench.
If Russell isn't fit this weekend then Cotter probably goes with Weir but he could consider Laidlaw starting at 10 or moving to 10 during the game with either Pyrgos or SHC on the bench. So again no requirement for Horne.

I think SHC has played at 15 before as well, clearly not ideal, but he could move back there.

What we will probably see (in my opinion) is Lamont on the bench as in theory he can cover wing, centre and FB. I say "in theory" as he probably only does one of them with any real competence, but he's been moved around enough to cover the lot. So maybe Horne & Lamont as bench cover.

I have a feeling that neither Russell nor Hardie will be fit and if they are marginal, then why risk them in this game. Cowan may well come straight into the team and play or bench with Wilson starting at 7, he mjght just be a little bit undercooked is my only worry, not having played for a few weeks now.

It is hard to believe that Russell's ankle will make it and the noises coming out of the camp are not that promising, unless they are playing games to wind up the Boks. Weir actually did ok in his cameo at the weekend, so I would imagine he will start and Horne will cover form the bench.

Got to take a longer term view on things. I would rather lose them both for one game than for the rest of the tournament.

IanBru wrote:All good points. I guess I tend to see the 8 and 6 as somewhat similar positions in terms of function - the only reason why I put Strauss at 8 is that I think he's a bit more solid controlling the ball at the back of the scrum. Otherwise I'd have the two of them performing the same work as they normally would, regardless of the numbers on their backs.

I think Denton is better at the base of the scrum and has better acceleration than Strauss so I would play Denton at 8. In terms of the general game plan, I agree they both will play the same role no matter which number they wear.

Also, I agree that Russell should not be risked unless he is 100%. The Samoa game is far more important than this one. Winning the group would be nice but beating Samoa is absolutely essential. All we need is for Wales to win Group A with a couple more injuries before the quarter final.

reallybored wrote:Hopefully the squad get a decent rest ahead of the Boks match because the pieces are falling into place for Cotter.

The Edinburgh trio are doing the business up-front, really optimistic about the scrum battle.

Richie had a good game against the US and Jonny will be industrious as ever after his rest, need this pair to have big games to match the Bok pack.

Denton has come into good form and will be fresh, Strauss definitely grew into the US match and Hardie has justified his selection in my book.  Not the most balanced back-row at the World Cup but very physical.  

The Boks will definitely be a physical step-up but our pack matched the French in Paris and they're a pretty brutal outfit.  We've got one of the biggest starting packs at the World Cup at around 920kg but it's mobile too with the likes of Dickinson and the Grays in the front-five.  They may have some pretty imposing figures but with the Grays, Strauss and Denton we've got our own big ball-carriers.  

Laidlaw has been leading the troops well and kicking his goals, plus he's constantly in the ref's ear.  Russell is getting better and better, fingers crossed the ankle isn't an issue.

Scott made a positive impact against the US and looks to be finding his form after getting some game-time under the belt.  Bennett is delivering on the potential we've all been waiting to see, hopefully he's able to recover well after two full matches in 5 days.

Great options in the back-three with Maitland, Seymour and Visser all scoring, while Lamont's form has been very solid.  Seymour is an obvious choice and Maitland showed enough against the US to merit selection imo.

And at the back our game-changer is looking razor sharp.


I think we're really starting to see Cotter's mark on the team, once we settle down with some sustained possession we play pretty straight forward but effective rugby.  This is the best Scottish team I've seen in over a decade and I'm confident they can beat the Boks but our defence can't stand off them, we must keep the mistakes and indiscipline down, our pack needs to properly get stuck into them and we keep the ball moving.

I couldn't have put it better myself reallybored.

The first halves of both the Japan and US games were always going to be tough, but we created chances.

We were almost trying too hard against the US in the first 40. I don't think Vern would have given the guys too much of a rollicking at half time though, it would have been more of a 'stick to the plan boys', have faith in the systems and the space and chances will come.

On that note, Hogg has been the class 15 of the tournament to date IMO. He gives us a great option off 10 and 13 with the angles he's running and his acceleration into contact.

He, Bennett and Russell look like they're having fun and we've not seen that for too long. They're trying things and its great to watch.

In summary bubbling along nicely with maximum points and a huge match to come on Saturday.

Bring it on and good call on Cowan. He was unlucky to miss out on the original pick and will be a good option.

Has anyone checked on the ticket availability for either QF, or are we all far to pessimistic for that sort of thing?

nickj wrote:Has anyone checked on the ticket availability for either QF, or are we all far to pessimistic for that sort of thing?

I made the suggestion to my brother on the bus back from the USA match that we should keep our ears close to the ground for p!ssed off England or Wales supporters trying to offload tickets for quarter-finals matches they no longer need.

My brother looked at me and simply said, "You shut your mouth, Ian."

I know, I started thinking exactly the same thing on the ferry on Sunday. I had to tell myself to stop being so bloody dramatic and to remember that we've got some seriously f***ed off Saffers and a few bloody massive Samoans to deal with first...

I really like the Blair Cowan decision. Hardie can't play every match and if he's doubtful for SA then he should be rested, as with Russell. I no fan of rotating for the big group games, and we should otherwise go all guns blazing, but I wouldn't risk players against the Bok who aren't 100% fit.

My 23:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Strauss 7.Cowan 8.Denton 9.Laidlaw 10.Weir 11.Seymour 12.Scott 13.Bennett 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

16.Welsh 17.Brown 18.Grant 19.Swinson 20.Strokosch 21.SH-C 22.Horne 23.Lamont

I'd pick SH-C over Pyrgos for impact. I thought Pyrgos was pretty average against USA. I'm very tempted to start Fraser Brown - I thought he was excellent against USA off the bench, but I don't want to split the Edinburgh trio.

I wonder how much rotation VC could do without A) drastically weakening the team or B) making it look like we’re ‘throwing’ this game.

For example Brown for Ford could be easily justified given Ford’s mammoth 150 minutes in 5 days (why wasn’t he subbed off earlier on Sunday BTW??). Bennett could be swapped for Vernon for similar reasons, but also with talk of combating their physical threat in midfield or something like that.  That change would certainly weaken our attacking threat though.

Similarly in the back 3 – I’m not sure he knows who his best wingers are yet, but if he did then he could play the other two without anyone raising an eyebrow. He could even play Maitland instead of Hogg (again citing Hogg’s high gametime in the first two games) but I suspect that would cause a bit of a stir.

So if VC put out a team like this he could probably satisfy both objectives, and keep some key players  (shown in brackets) fresh for the Samoa game.

Dickinson
Brown (Ford)
Nel
Gray
Gray
Strauss
Cowan (Hardie)
Denton

Laidlaw
Weir (Russell)
Visser (Seymour)
Scott
Vernon (Bennett)
Lamont (Maitland)
Hogg

RDW_Scotland wrote:I wonder how much rotation VC could do without A) drastically weakening the team or B) making it look like we’re ‘throwing’ this game.

For example Brown for Ford could be easily justified given Ford’s mammoth 150 minutes in 5 days (why wasn’t he subbed off earlier on Sunday BTW??). Bennett could be swapped for Vernon for similar reasons, but also with talk of combating their physical threat in midfield or something like that.  That change would certainly weaken our attacking threat though.

Similarly in the back 3 – I’m not sure he knows who his best wingers are yet, but if he did then he could play the other two without anyone raising an eyebrow. He could even play Maitland instead of Hogg (again citing Hogg’s high gametime in the first two games) but I suspect that would cause a bit of a stir.

So if VC put out a team like this he could probably satisfy both objectives, and keep some key players  (shown in brackets) fresh for the Samoa game.

Dickinson
Brown (Ford)
Nel
Gray
Gray
Strauss
Cowan (Hardie)
Denton

Laidlaw
Weir (Russell)
Visser (Seymour)
Scott
Vernon (Bennett)
Lamont (Maitland)
Hogg

I suppose it depends on whether Cotter wants to win the group.

If Wales beat Fiji, they will come second in their group as Australia will effectively put England out on Saturday. We win our game on Saturday (or, I think with results going our way, a losing bonus point against SA and a 5 pointer against Samoa and we will win out group still. I think anyway but I can't be arsed looking into all the mathematical outcomes).

Anyway, it means we play Wales in the 1/4s - which is my preference by a mile.

So in short, play our best team

Who would you play if you came 2nd?

The boost of beating the boks in the World cup, the morale lift will be so much more than the prospect of facing the lesser of the qualifiers from group A if there is such as team.

The best Scotland can do is try and win the game, qualify first.

Oz, assuming they do the business at the cabbage patch on Saturday night!

If South Africa beat us and the USA with a 4 try BP (a real possibility) then even if we get a LBP and beat Samoa with 4 tries we'd be 1 point behind SA.

If SA don't get a 4 try BP against us we'd be joint on points - not sure what happens then!

on equal points the first definer is the head to head. In that case Scotland 2nd, SA 1st.

fa0019 wrote:on equal points the first definer is the head to head. In that case Scotland 2nd, SA 1st.

OK so for us to finish first we pretty much have to beat SA!

funnyExiledScot wrote:I really like the Blair Cowan decision. Hardie can't play every match and if he's doubtful for SA then he should be rested, as with Russell. I no fan of rotating for the big group games, and we should otherwise go all guns blazing, but I wouldn't risk players against the Bok who aren't 100% fit.

My 23:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.Strauss 7.Cowan 8.Denton 9.Laidlaw 10.Weir 11.Seymour 12.Scott 13.Bennett 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

16.Welsh 17.Brown 18.Grant 19.Swinson 20.Strokosch 21.SH-C 22.Horne 23.Lamont

I'd pick SH-C over Pyrgos for impact. I thought Pyrgos was pretty average against USA. I'm very tempted to start Fraser Brown, I thought he was excellent against USA off the bench, but I don't want to split the Edinburgh trio.

I think we might see a gentle bit of rotation for this game, on top of the two injured players sitting out. Ford has played 2 full games more or less and should be benched for that reason, he will start again next week. Brown has done enough to deserve a start.

Bennett has played 2 full games as well, but do we risk giving him a rest as well, maybe bench him, it would be really tough on RV to bring him along and not let him play at all. He may well cope with the physical threat of the Boks certainly at the begining. Bennett to come on in the second half once things start to open up a bit.

I think SHC may bench as well, he will give us some potential impact and offers a different game to the other SHs. Visser maybe did enough to get onto the bench as well, again his scoring record makes it worth the gamble, Lamont may come back in again the following week.

Unfourtunately it is just not realistic to expect these guys to put in a full shift week in week out in this kind of intensity and I suspect that the coaches know that. The hard games will just keep on coming thick and fast now and something will end up giving.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

fa0019 wrote:on equal points the first definer is the head to head. In that case Scotland 2nd, SA 1st.

OK so for us to finish first we pretty much have to beat SA!

Yeah. Pray for rain!

Wales or Australia?

Hmmmm. Well if Wales reach the other end (play-offs) - I think they'll be a side not many would look forward to meeting.
Tails up, Gatland in bullish mood. Back to his sneering best. Goading Cotter, putting pressure on him. Wales in their Remember 2011!!!! zone of Vengence is Mine Sayeth Gats!!!!!

I'm not so certain that if Wales got through to the quarters they'd be a side to look forward to meeting.

fa0019 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

fa0019 wrote:on equal points the first definer is the head to head. In that case Scotland 2nd, SA 1st.

OK so for us to finish first we pretty much have to beat SA!

Yeah. Pray for rain!

Why?

fa0019 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

fa0019 wrote:on equal points the first definer is the head to head. In that case Scotland 2nd, SA 1st.

OK so for us to finish first we pretty much have to beat SA!

Yeah. Pray for rain!

SecretFly wrote:Wales or Australia?

Hmmmm.  Well if Wales reach the other end (play-offs) - I think they'll be a side not many would look forward to meeting.  
Tails up, Gatland in bullish mood.  Back to his sneering best.  Goading Cotter, putting pressure on him.  Wales in their Remember 2011!!!! zone of Vengence is Mine Sayeth Gats!!!!!

I'm not so certain that if Wales got through to the quarters they'd be a side to look forward to meeting.

And England at Twickenham (where we haven't won in a very long time) or a rampant Australia are any better??

Either of the 3 will be incredibly tough but I've got to agree that Wales is probably our best chance.

We need to qualify first though...!

I'd personally prefer Australia.  And yes, I'm being honest.  
But then that's maybe informed by an Irishman's respect for what Welsh rugby can do to us when we least expect it.  

The thing with Australia is that they don't allow you to become complacent - so the players are attentive the whole way through - have to be.  Alertness.
With Wales, some players might be lulled into thinking it's all too familiar.  That's when concentration can dip for a second and that's when Wales become the most dangerous side in the world.  They are always alive to a quick kill off.  I don't think I've seen any side over the years so ready, willing and able to pull off an instantaneous trick move that kills you off - dead.

I'd prefer meet Australia.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

fa0019 wrote:on equal points the first definer is the head to head. In that case Scotland 2nd, SA 1st.

OK so for us to finish first we pretty much have to beat SA!

Yeah. Pray for rain!

You all of a sudden think Scotland should play like Japan?

fa0019 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

fa0019 wrote:on equal points the first definer is the head to head. In that case Scotland 2nd, SA 1st.

OK so for us to finish first we pretty much have to beat SA!

Yeah. Pray for rain!

Apparently Phil Vickery has retired.

Scotland won't be SA by playing a fluid dirt track type game.

They will best compete them by playing a tight match, playing guys like Strokosch to get under the boks skin. They have to move the boks around, tire them out but not to a point its a 7's game.

fa0019 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

fa0019 wrote:on equal points the first definer is the head to head. In that case Scotland 2nd, SA 1st.

OK so for us to finish first we pretty much have to beat SA!

Yeah. Pray for rain!

You all of a sudden think Scotland should play like Japan?

I think Scotland should play with the gameplan that Cotter has been working on for over a year - a reliable set-piece,
coupled with strong, intelligent carrying from our forwards that moves the opposition defence around the field and gives time and space to our dangerous backs.

Rain would limit our strongest suits just as much as it limits any team we'd come up against.

Pray for sun!

Captain_Sensible wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

fa0019 wrote:on equal points the first definer is the head to head. In that case Scotland 2nd, SA 1st.

OK so for us to finish first we pretty much have to beat SA!

Yeah. Pray for rain!

You all of a sudden think Scotland should play like Japan?

I think Scotland should play with the gameplan that Cotter has been working on for over a year - a reliable set-piece,
coupled with strong, intelligent carrying from our forwards that moves the opposition defence around the field and gives time and space to our dangerous backs.

Rain would limit our strongest suits just as much as it limits any team we'd come up against.

Pray for sun!

Exactly,

This whole pray for rain and try and strangle the Boks in an arm wrestle in the mud plays right into the hands of their powerful pack. Scotland should be aiming to play like Glasgow, but building that game plan on a foundation created by the powerful Edinburgh pack.

This whole pray for rain comment is made either as a WUM or in ignorance. We want Hogg, Visser, Scott, Bennet, Seymore et al to get their hands on the ball in space as much as possible. We do not want a turgid affair where our scintillating backs are reduced to spectators.

Get with the program fa0019

Simply don't think Scotland can beat the boks that way.