England vs Australia, 3 October

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ENGLAND v AUSTRALIA
3 October 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: George Clancy (Ireland) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

43 Played 43
18 Won 24
1 Drawn 1
24 Lost 18
661 Points 907

B. Recent Form

29 November 2014
Twickenham, London
26 – 17 to England

2 November 2013
Twickenham, London
20 – 13 to England

17 November 2012
Twickenham, London
14 – 20 to Australia

13 November 2010
Twickenham, London
35 – 18 to England

19 June 2010
Telstra Stadium, Sydney
20 – 21 to England

12 June 2010
Subiaco Oval, Perth
27 – 17 to Australia

7 November 2009
Twickenham, London
9 – 18 to Australia

15 November 2008
Twickenham, London
14 – 28 to Australia

6 October 2007
Stade Vélodrome, Marseille, France
10 – 12 to England

C. Teams

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 41 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 13 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 25 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 18 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 33 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 35 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 26 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Exeter Chiefs, 27 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 40 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 41 caps)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 30 caps)

16. Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 25 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 14 caps)
19. George Kruis (Saracens, 8 caps)
20. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 52 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 25 caps)
22. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
23. Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)

AUSTRALIA

1. Scott Sio (12 Tests)
2. Stephen Moore (c) (97 Tests)
3. Sekope Kepu (58 Tests)
4. Kane Douglas (18 Tests)
5. Rob Simmons (55 Tests)
6. Scott Fardy (25 Tests)
7. Michael Hooper (vc) (47 Tests)
8. David Pocock (51 Tests)

9. Will Genia (61 Tests)
10. Bernard Foley (22 Tests)
11. Rob Horne (28 Tests)
12. Matt Giteau (97 Tests)
13. Tevita Kuridrani (25 Tests)
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper (vc) (109 Tests)
15. Israel Folau (34 Tests)

*Reserves to be confirmed

Hoping lightning doesn't strike twice then re Barritt. I'm sure he'll be better covered this time.
Our guys have seen a lot of what Burgess is capable of and will no doubt be pulling out all stops to nullify his impact.
He's not the quickest nor most versatile bloke either which may be exploited by the speedsters.

Sorry was`nt fully clear on my comment should have said IF England win,then they have
a slightly better chance.Purely because they have a bonus point advantage plus Uruguay
and it`s just a matter of how many.
To be sure of progressing Wales need at least 2 bonus points then it would be points difference or number of tries scored.
Poite has played in every Scrum position at a good level and knows the answers.,Angle
Packing as used against Wales will earn resets,warnings,then Yellow Cards and kicking
down the throat.Of there back three is plain stupid,Quaid Cooper you wish will be no
where near it.

Poorfour wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Mike Brown needs to de-escalate as he may well become a liability V Aus -

I can just see an Aussie player saying to Brown, "hey mate, unlucky against Wales, Nice interview though" - You just know that is going to happen and trust me, it was my forte' on the field.  
.

Brown was involved in one incident on the pitch that involved about twenty players in the end. From the replay, he wasn't the aggressor and seemed to be holding onto someone's shirt in the fracas while being shoved around by several Welshmen. He may wind people up, but that's allowed in rugby (as long as it's not the ref). He's a feisty character but he's got no record of disciplinary issues on the pitch. I can't even remember when he was last carded.

But people perceive what they want to perceive.

Absolute rubbish - he went in swinging at Warburton !

AWJ even asked the ref 'Can you have a look at their 15 being a willy, Sir ?'

I know Brown is your last hope of creative play if Youngs is out but some English fan's defense of him borders on lunacy.

I assume if he came in swinging he's been cited and I missed it?

Now now Munkian - Like the fella said, people will perceive what they want to perceive

No 7&1/2 wrote:I assume if he came in swinging he's been cited and I missed it?

Much like Wood's boot it wasn't exactly replayed on the big screen....

Exactly. Some fans are exagerrating a bit. Enjoy the win no need to post embelished stuff and the fact he's the last creativity of the England side if Youngs' is out. I'm sure you can't believe that. Good luck vs Fiji and Aus.

munkian wrote:

Poorfour wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Mike Brown needs to de-escalate as he may well become a liability V Aus -

I can just see an Aussie player saying to Brown, "hey mate, unlucky against Wales, Nice interview though" - You just know that is going to happen and trust me, it was my forte' on the field.  
.

Brown was involved in one incident on the pitch that involved about twenty players in the end. From the replay, he wasn't the aggressor and seemed to be holding onto someone's shirt in the fracas while being shoved around by several Welshmen. He may wind people up, but that's allowed in rugby (as long as it's not the ref). He's a feisty character but he's got no record of disciplinary issues on the pitch. I can't even remember when he was last carded.

But people perceive what they want to perceive.

Absolute rubbish - he went in swinging at Warburton !

AWJ even asked the ref 'Can you have a look at their 15 being a willy, Sir ?'

I know Brown is your last hope of creative play if Youngs is out but some English fan's defense of him borders on lunacy.

It's not lunacy - it's the experience of having watched him play since he was a teenager. He's very shouty, but he doesn't lose control like Hartley. Regardless of whether you and AWJ thought he went in swinging at Warburton, the ref, assistant refs, TMO and citing commissioner didn't. Since they had ample opportunity to sanction him for whatever he did or didn't do, and chose not to, it's pretty reasonable to conclude that it wasn't actually that serious.

I've long been a detractor of Easter at international level. I felt that he was a fantastic club player but one who's lack of pace was harshly exposed at international level. Given our current lack of composure and struggling set piece he could be just what we need at this stage of the tournament however.

He offers a cool head at the base of the scrum, experience around the park and due to his excellent handling a much stronger line-out option than Billy or Morgan. In the later regard he is also better than Haskell and probably Robshaw too. Given Wood is so out of form this could give us the chance to pick Haskell at 6 for a bit more grunt whilst keeping line-out options open.

I'd also be tempted to bring Davey Wilson in for Dan Cole. I am a huge fan of DC but at current his breakdown work is leaking more penalties than it's making. He was good in the scrum on saturday but big Davey is strong there too and I feel Cole could be more of a weapon in the loose coming on with 30 to go when the game breaks up more. For those wondering why Wilson would leapfrog Brookes, I don't trust Brookes scrummaging to last more than 30 minutes without falling apart as it often has in the Jeff.

Elsewhere we sorely need Joseph to be fit, or Slade backed at 13, if we want our finally dangerous looking back three to see some ball.

On the bench I would consider George over Webber.

Wood has been excellent?

king_carlos wrote:I've long been a detractor of Easter at international level. I felt that he was a fantastic club player but one who's lack of pace was harshly exposed at international level. Given our current lack of composure and struggling set piece he could be just what we need at this stage of the tournament however.

He offers a cool head at the base of the scrum, experience around the park and due to his excellent handling a much stronger line-out option than Billy or Morgan. In the later regard he is also better than Haskell and probably Robshaw too. Given Wood is so out of form this could give us the chance to pick Haskell at 6 for a bit more grunt whilst keeping line-out options open.

I'd also be tempted to bring Davey Wilson in for Dan Cole. I am a huge fan of DC but at current his breakdown work is leaking more penalties than it's making. He was good in the scrum on saturday but big Davey is strong there too and I feel Cole could be more of a weapon in the loose coming on with 30 to go when the game breaks up more. For those wondering why Wilson would leapfrog Brookes, I don't trust Brookes scrummaging to last more than 30 minutes without falling apart as it often has in the Jeff.

Elsewhere we sorely need Joseph to be fit, or Slade backed at 13, if we want our finally dangerous looking back three to see some ball.

On the bench I would consider George over Webber.

I agree on cole being dropped. He's been poor since the lions tour of 2013.

Bar the 6Ns when he was good.

And the last match.

No 7&1/2 wrote:And the last match.

The last match... you mean when he was giving away silly penalties. If anything its Marler who has grown into being the strong point of England's frontrow.

The whole world seems to think Marler is scrummaging illegally

I say good on him for getting away with it, what kind of prop doesn't try and cheat at the scrum

The last match yes. He was good in that game. Given one of the pens he gave was for hands on the floor when previously Roberts had done the same thing as do most I think you take a chance and it comes off quite a lot.

Cole conceded 2 penalties (the same as Tom Wood, Mike Brown and Gethin Jenkins) but was England's second most involved player when you add up ball handling, tackling and rucks.

I think it would be a mistake to drop him.

Sources: ESPN Green and Gold Rugby

BamBam wrote:The whole world seems to think Marler is scrummaging illegally

I say good on him for getting away with it, what kind of prop doesn't try and cheat at the scrum

Probably been given 1 to 1 tuition by one of the prominent former looseheads in pro NH rugby helps a lot. When he first came onto the scene he was very very raw. To his credit he's become a no brainer selection choice.

fa0019 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:And the last match.

The last match... you mean when he was giving away silly penalties. If anything its Marler who has grown into being the strong point of England's frontrow.

Garces was the strong point of England's front row

True he had a very good game.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Wood has been excellent?

He's been solid in my opinion. He has been a solid target in the line-out and has carried a bit more than in recent times.

I can't help but feel his tackling is lacking the venom that it had when he first came into the set-up and his breakdown work is rapidly fading.

Haskell has been inconsistent but he offers that bit more physicality that our pack seemed to be lacking yet again on Saturday.

I by no means feel that Wood has been appalling but neither do I believe he has come back to form as many suggest.

BamBam wrote:The whole world seems to think Marler is scrummaging illegally

I say good on him for getting away with it, what kind of prop doesn't try and cheat at the scrum

It's an odd perception that only seems to have arisen since the Fiji match - previously he had a reputation for being an honest but not destructive scrummager. I'm also not sure it's correct - Garces was clearly watching out for boring in because he called Gethin on it several times, but didn't ping Marler.

The ref is Poite, are people happy about that?

fa0019 wrote:The ref is Poite, are people happy about that?

I am. He's technically sound, won't be swayed by the crowd and probably understands the scrum better than any other elite ref. England have generally been good at getting on his wavelength.

Does anyone know when the teams are due to be named? It was Tuesday last week wasn't it?

Poorfour wrote:

fa0019 wrote:The ref is Poite, are people happy about that?

I am. He's technically sound, won't be swayed by the crowd and probably understands the scrum better than any other elite ref. England have generally been good at getting on his wavelength.

Thought myself it probably helps England more than AUS. He's quite single minded come the scrum. Goes with momentum. If England can get a nudge on it could bring cards for the aussies.

It's not just momentum - he's quite happy to let a scrum go backwards on a team's own put in but still let them get the ball back. But he's pretty good at spotting why scrums have gone down and awarding an appropriate sanction.

I think that favours England - Rowntree has long said that he would rather his props go backwards than go down, and I think the Wales game showed that the scrum is coming together.

somewhat bizarrely excited to see Easter. hope he plays. what a weird feeling. think he could add a fair bit of street smarts though. I hope we have Slade on the bench rather than Goode, but it wont be will it.

Poorfour wrote:

munkian wrote:

Poorfour wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Mike Brown needs to de-escalate as he may well become a liability V Aus -

I can just see an Aussie player saying to Brown, "hey mate, unlucky against Wales, Nice interview though" - You just know that is going to happen and trust me, it was my forte' on the field.  
.

Brown was involved in one incident on the pitch that involved about twenty players in the end. From the replay, he wasn't the aggressor and seemed to be holding onto someone's shirt in the fracas while being shoved around by several Welshmen. He may wind people up, but that's allowed in rugby (as long as it's not the ref). He's a feisty character but he's got no record of disciplinary issues on the pitch. I can't even remember when he was last carded.

But people perceive what they want to perceive.

Absolute rubbish - he went in swinging at Warburton !

AWJ even asked the ref 'Can you have a look at their 15 being a willy, Sir ?'

I know Brown is your last hope of creative play if Youngs is out but some English fan's defense of him borders on lunacy.

It's not lunacy - it's the experience of having watched him play since he was a teenager. He's very shouty, but he doesn't lose control like Hartley. Regardless of whether you and AWJ thought he went in swinging at Warburton, the ref, assistant refs, TMO and citing commissioner didn't. Since they had ample opportunity to sanction him for whatever he did or didn't do, and chose not to, it's pretty reasonable to conclude that it wasn't actually that serious.

But based on that game and his post-match interview he's still a prize plum. I thought he was going to cry when Captain Fantastic marched him backwards - you could tell instantly that Brown regretted his decision to act tough.

If I go by recent form including recent head-to-head's between England and Australia, then England should be favourites. I'm backing the favourites to get the win, Robshaw to have a stormer but guys like May will take all the credit.

mikey_dragon wrote:If I go by recent form including recent head-to-head's between England and Australia, then England should be favourites. I'm backing the favourites to get the win, Robshaw to have a stormer but guys like May will take all the credit.

That's a fairly consistent pattern... judging by the Fiji game, though, Pocock is the one guy who might have a higher workrate than Robshaw, and I don't think they've ever played against each other. From memory it's always been Hooper. Should be a very tense encounter.

A lot will come down to the weather and how the scrums called.

If England get away with the preconception they are too good up front and guys like Marler are allowed to cheat as they did against Wales then it'll be a long day of dull three point accumulation and driving mauls.

Give us a flat track and a ref who calls what he sees and not what the British press tell him beforehand and the wallabies will walk it.

donglewood wrote:A lot will come down to the weather and how the scrums called.

If England get away with the preconception they are too good up front and guys like Marler are allowed to cheat as they did against Wales then it'll be a long day of dull three point accumulation and driving mauls.

Give us a flat track and a ref who calls what he sees and not what the British press tell him beforehand and the wallabies will walk it.

So Australia are the super power, England and the press dirty cheats?

I don't see how such an inferior tight 5 and half back pairing will get some fantastic backs enough of a platform to win this game, I see England smothering Aus and handling them pretty easily tbh.

Poorfour wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If I go by recent form including recent head-to-head's between England and Australia, then England should be favourites. I'm backing the favourites to get the win, Robshaw to have a stormer but guys like May will take all the credit.

That's a fairly consistent pattern... judging by the Fiji game, though, Pocock is the one guy who might have a higher workrate than Robshaw, and I don't think they've ever played against each other. From memory it's always been Hooper. Should be a very tense encounter.

England's 6 Nations and pre-RWC form was also pretty good. I didn't know that either, but I guess Pocock was out of action for quite a long time. This game will be good one but probably not a high score one.

Donglewood vs Fanster?

Fanster wrote:

donglewood wrote:A lot will come down to the weather and how the scrums called.

If England get away with the preconception they are too good up front and guys like Marler are allowed to cheat as they did against Wales then it'll be a long day of dull three point accumulation and driving mauls.

Give us a flat track and a ref who calls what he sees and not what the British press tell him beforehand and the wallabies will walk it.

So Australia are the super power, England and the press dirty cheats?

I don't see how such an inferior tight 5 and half back pairing will get some fantastic backs enough of a platform to win this game, I see England smothering Aus and handling them pretty easily tbh.

Inferior to whom? England without Billy V will struggle to get gain line success and frankly they've drafted in a pensioner as cover. The bench is weak and the scrum relies heavily on boring in from Marler and Mako.

Quade is an electric 10 who brings a game breaking X factor England can only dream of. Pace, vision and a lightening pass that will crank open the predictable and narrow pommy defence.

England have no fetcher whereas we have two of the best in the world who sat the all blacks on their backsides already this year.

England might gain parity or edge the scrum but the lineout is suspect and the breakdown will be an utter annihilation.

Bring it on tough talker! You're going down.

donglewood wrote:

Fanster wrote:

donglewood wrote:A lot will come down to the weather and how the scrums called.

If England get away with the preconception they are too good up front and guys like Marler are allowed to cheat as they did against Wales then it'll be a long day of dull three point accumulation and driving mauls.

Give us a flat track and a ref who calls what he sees and not what the British press tell him beforehand and the wallabies will walk it.

So Australia are the super power, England and the press dirty cheats?

I don't see how such an inferior tight 5 and half back pairing will get some fantastic backs enough of a platform to win this game, I see England smothering Aus and handling them pretty easily tbh.

Inferior to whom? England without Billy V will struggle to get gain line success and frankly they've drafted in a pensioner as cover. The bench is weak and the scrum relies heavily on boring in from Marler and Mako.

Quade is an electric 10 who brings a game breaking X factor England can only dream of. Pace, vision and a lightening pass that will crank open the predictable and narrow pommy defence.

England have no fetcher whereas we have two of the best in the world who sat the all blacks on their backsides already this year.

England might gain parity or edge the scrum but the lineout is suspect and the breakdown will be an utter annihilation.

Bring it on tough talker! You're going down.

Quade Cooper has a lot of experience playing England having done so 6 times. Australia's win rate with him playing vs England is 33%...

Pocock is 50%

lostinwales wrote:

donglewood wrote:

Fanster wrote:

donglewood wrote:A lot will come down to the weather and how the scrums called.

If England get away with the preconception they are too good up front and guys like Marler are allowed to cheat as they did against Wales then it'll be a long day of dull three point accumulation and driving mauls.

Give us a flat track and a ref who calls what he sees and not what the British press tell him beforehand and the wallabies will walk it.

So Australia are the super power, England and the press dirty cheats?

I don't see how such an inferior tight 5 and half back pairing will get some fantastic backs enough of a platform to win this game, I see England smothering Aus and handling them pretty easily tbh.

Inferior to whom? England without Billy V will struggle to get gain line success and frankly they've drafted in a pensioner as cover. The bench is weak and the scrum relies heavily on boring in from Marler and Mako.

Quade is an electric 10 who brings a game breaking X factor England can only dream of. Pace, vision and a lightening pass that will crank open the predictable and narrow pommy defence.

England have no fetcher whereas we have two of the best in the world who sat the all blacks on their backsides already this year.

England might gain parity or edge the scrum but the lineout is suspect and the breakdown will be an utter annihilation.

Bring it on tough talker! You're going down.

Quade Cooper has a lot of experience playing England having done so 6 times. Australia's win rate with him playing vs England is 33%...

Pocock is 50%

Both due then.

As a Welsh supporter, if Lancaster picks the same back line as the Wales game I believe they will have two losses after this game and I suspect they will not even get a losing bonus point. Youngs was very good against Wales but his replacement was not great and is likely to start against Aus thus making things worse. Aus have very few injuries due to an easier start than England and they are looking good hence my thoughts about the outcome.

Good luck, the game with Wales and Aus may be interesting as neither team will want to win if SA are runners up!

Apparently burgess is dropped but Farrell and Barrett keep their places. What a joke. And Easter isn't on the bench

I thought the team is to be named on Thursday?

In the torygraph. And daily hate mail. They have been pretty good at knowing line ups previously. I hope they are wrong. Ridiculous if Farrell is playing.

How the hell can Barritt keep his place ? I can see why Farrell is in but not BB , totally bewildering .

glamorganalun wrote:As a Welsh supporter, if Lancaster picks the same back line as the Wales game I believe they will have two losses after this game and I suspect they will not even get a losing bonus point. Youngs was very good against Wales but his replacement was not great and is likely to start against Aus thus making things worse. Aus have very few injuries due to an easier start than England and they are looking good hence my  thoughts about the outcome.

Good luck, the game with Wales and Aus may be interesting as neither team will want to win if SA are runners up!

Why would either team not want to face SA? I'm sure they would relish the opportunity. SA aren't exactly invincible either... For what it's worth I think they will beat Scotland and top their group.

I suspect SA will beat Scotland but they both will lose 1 game, Scotland go go top on bonus points.

Truly baffled if Farrell not ford vs oz. It just makes no sense.

BB is more baffling if true ...

Dong

You lost me at 'Quade is...'
Anything following that other than 'a liability' is pure laughable!!

The guy throws a behind the back pass when a simple pop will do, he has to try to beat 3 when the outside shoulder of the first is enough, he is absolutely all flair and no substance whatsoever!

I fear the guy who hits 11/11 not the guy who hits 4/11 but can throw a few cute offloads!

Heaf wrote:BB is more baffling if true ...

Also this. Surely start burgess with slade on bench. What's the plan? Bore them into submission?

donglewood wrote:

Fanster wrote:

donglewood wrote:A lot will come down to the weather and how the scrums called.

If England get away with the preconception they are too good up front and guys like Marler are allowed to cheat as they did against Wales then it'll be a long day of dull three point accumulation and driving mauls.

Give us a flat track and a ref who calls what he sees and not what the British press tell him beforehand and the wallabies will walk it.

So Australia are the super power, England and the press dirty cheats?

I don't see how such an inferior tight 5 and half back pairing will get some fantastic backs enough of a platform to win this game, I see England smothering Aus and handling them pretty easily tbh.

Inferior to whom? England without Billy V will struggle to get gain line success and frankly they've drafted in a pensioner as cover. The bench is weak and the scrum relies heavily on boring in from Marler and Mako.

Quade is an electric 10 who brings a game breaking X factor England can only dream of. Pace, vision and a lightening pass that will crank open the predictable and narrow pommy defence.

England have no fetcher whereas we have two of the best in the world who sat the all blacks on their backsides already this year.

England might gain parity or edge the scrum but the lineout is suspect and the breakdown will be an utter annihilation.

Bring it on tough talker! You're going down.

That is funny. Didn't realise you were one of us.

I'm a little tired of all this "we'll smash 'em at HQ" talk. It's so arrogant and reeks of denial.

The Wallabies had a very good record there (parity at least) up until 2010. There is no fear playing at Twickenham unlike other teams except NZ and SA and of course Wales. Australia have already won a RWC there (and at Millennium)... they love playing in GB. They would probably 'fear' the Wales match (when they get around to it) a little more than this one to be honest.

Also don't forget, Australia was comfortably ranked 2nd until last weekend (bloody Uruguay!) and England's ranking has slipped to 6th after the Wales loss. Unless there is some instruction to Poite by the IRB to level the playing field (that wouldn't surprise me) I believe Australia should have more than enough to see off this particular England side.