England vs Australia, 3 October

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ENGLAND v AUSTRALIA
3 October 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: George Clancy (Ireland) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

43 Played 43
18 Won 24
1 Drawn 1
24 Lost 18
661 Points 907

B. Recent Form

29 November 2014
Twickenham, London
26 – 17 to England

2 November 2013
Twickenham, London
20 – 13 to England

17 November 2012
Twickenham, London
14 – 20 to Australia

13 November 2010
Twickenham, London
35 – 18 to England

19 June 2010
Telstra Stadium, Sydney
20 – 21 to England

12 June 2010
Subiaco Oval, Perth
27 – 17 to Australia

7 November 2009
Twickenham, London
9 – 18 to Australia

15 November 2008
Twickenham, London
14 – 28 to Australia

6 October 2007
Stade Vélodrome, Marseille, France
10 – 12 to England

C. Teams

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 41 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 13 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 25 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 18 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 33 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 35 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 26 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Exeter Chiefs, 27 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 40 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 41 caps)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 30 caps)

16. Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 25 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 14 caps)
19. George Kruis (Saracens, 8 caps)
20. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 52 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 25 caps)
22. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
23. Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)

AUSTRALIA

1. Scott Sio (12 Tests)
2. Stephen Moore (c) (97 Tests)
3. Sekope Kepu (58 Tests)
4. Kane Douglas (18 Tests)
5. Rob Simmons (55 Tests)
6. Scott Fardy (25 Tests)
7. Michael Hooper (vc) (47 Tests)
8. David Pocock (51 Tests)

9. Will Genia (61 Tests)
10. Bernard Foley (22 Tests)
11. Rob Horne (28 Tests)
12. Matt Giteau (97 Tests)
13. Tevita Kuridrani (25 Tests)
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper (vc) (109 Tests)
15. Israel Folau (34 Tests)

*Reserves to be confirmed

Loaded dog

In which areas do Australia have more than enough?

The Loaded Dog wrote:

donglewood wrote:

Fanster wrote:

donglewood wrote:A lot will come down to the weather and how the scrums called.

If England get away with the preconception they are too good up front and guys like Marler are allowed to cheat as they did against Wales then it'll be a long day of dull three point accumulation and driving mauls.

Give us a flat track and a ref who calls what he sees and not what the British press tell him beforehand and the wallabies will walk it.

So Australia are the super power, England and the press dirty cheats?

I don't see how such an inferior tight 5 and half back pairing will get some fantastic backs enough of a platform to win this game, I see England smothering Aus and handling them pretty easily tbh.

Inferior to whom? England without Billy V will struggle to get gain line success and frankly they've drafted in a pensioner as cover. The bench is weak and the scrum relies heavily on boring in from Marler and Mako.

Quade is an electric 10 who brings a game breaking X factor England can only dream of. Pace, vision and a lightening pass that will crank open the predictable and narrow pommy defence.

England have no fetcher whereas we have two of the best in the world who sat the all blacks on their backsides already this year.

England might gain parity or edge the scrum but the lineout is suspect and the breakdown will be an utter annihilation.

Bring it on tough talker! You're going down.

That is funny. Didn't realise you were one of us.

I'm a little tired of all this "we'll smash 'em at HQ" talk. It's so arrogant and reeks of denial.

The Wallabies had a very good record there (parity at least) up until 2010. There is no fear playing at Twickenham unlike other teams except NZ and SA and of course Wales. Australia have already won a RWC there (and at Millennium)... they love playing in GB. They would probably 'fear' the Wales match (when they get around to it) a little more than this one to be honest.

Also don't forget, Australia was comfortably ranked 2nd until last weekend (bloody Uruguay!) and England's ranking has slipped to 6th after the Wales loss. Unless there is some instruction to Poite by the IRB to level the playing field (that wouldn't surprise me) I believe Australia should have more than enough to see off this particular England side.

It wouldn't surprise me either, after what I witnessed at Twickenham in 2014. I wasn't writing Australia off earlier by the way... I was just stating that I believed England are favourites for this, and my gut instinct is to back the favourites for the win.

I think England have got this, but it does rather depend on Lancaster's selection.

Now is the time to dare and to endure. And with that in mind, Ford must play! No Farrell, please, and perhaps no Barritt, either.

England won't be able to bully and kick their way to victory; they have to be creative and inspired through the backs.

Yes Mikey, England are probably still favourites by a whisker.

Duty, are you feeling happier about JJ's inclusion in place of Burgess? Farrell is in there.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3253920/Owen-Farrell-keeps-starting-spot-Sam-Burgess-dropped-Jonathan-Joseph-declared-fit-England-s-win-Rugby-World-Cup-pool-clash-Australia.html

rozakthegoon wrote:In the torygraph. And daily hate mail. They have been pretty good at knowing line ups previously. I hope they are wrong.  Ridiculous if Farrell is playing.

Way too much politics for my liking. This is a rugby site don't forget.

The Loaded Dog wrote:Yes Mikey, England are probably still favourites by a whisker.

Duty, are you feeling happier about JJ's inclusion in place of Burgess? Farrell is in there.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3253920/Owen-Farrell-keeps-starting-spot-Sam-Burgess-dropped-Jonathan-Joseph-declared-fit-England-s-win-Rugby-World-Cup-pool-clash-Australia.html

Should be JJ and Burgess; Barritt has had a pretty poor two games and, whilst I was initially a critic of Burgess' inclusion, he has actually acquitted himself rather well in defence.

Farrell? Awful decision for this type of game. Against Wales it worked, because England felt they could punish the indiscipline of the opposition - it won't be the same versus Australia.

Agree... should be JJ and Burgess. An intimidating combination.
Sam will come off the bench surely now? If so he will make a big impact.

When will the team be announced not the leaked "Probable"one accepts England have
had injury problems.BUT surely the 10,12,13 options should be nailed down by now.
They have a good back three but if they don`t get the ball its pointless,against Wales
both tries looked more luck than judgement.
Last year they were scoring tries now it`s the RWC stereotype risk nothing,play
for penalties,drops etc.fine if it works but?
15 points behind 10 minutes to play what do you do,well I know what NZ would do
wave after wave of Black[White?]shirts until death knock.

I agree, it should be Youngs, Ford/Farrell, Burgess, JJ. Another bad decision that could prove costly.

The Loaded Dog wrote:Agree... should be JJ and Burgess. An intimidating combination.
Sam will come off the bench surely now? If so he will make a big impact.

Oh yes, he'll come on at the 55th minute for JJ - all part of Lancaster's pre-meditated plan!

This is one Ireland fan hoping that England wipe Australia's eye at the weekend.

Hopefully the team have ignored the incredible amount of drivel and schadenfreude that's come from all quarters and focus on winning the match - they have it within them.

Is there some indication that Barritt will start? He still looks unrecovered from his prior injuries and not back to complete health. A healthy Barritt is not always everyone's cup of tea, but to me is a player who can help win a World Cup. Not so with an limited Barritt.

For anyone who's interested. Here's Woodward having a chat with Eddie Jones.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2015/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=11521536

In the grand scheme of things, it's nice to see these two teams have their moment in the sun - just not on page 3 - but really this game is just keeping the embers going in pool play before the real matches start. Best of luck to both teams. (Cue Kaiser Chiefs song)

doctor_grey wrote:Is there some indication that Barritt will start?  He still looks unrecovered from his prior injuries and not back to complete health.  A healthy Barritt is not always everyone's cup of tea, but to me is a player who can help win a World Cup.  Not so with an limited Barritt.  

To be fair he's always limited.

For anyone who's interested. Here's Woodward having a chat with Eddie Jones.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2015/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=11521536

I won't read it, but I guess it may say something like;
'You know Eddie, back in 2003 when I won the World Cup, we didn't set out to do 1 thing 10% better, we tried to do 10 things 1% better .....blah,blah.....' ..............no more.....shoot me now!!!!!

ebop wrote:For anyone who's interested. Here's Woodward having a chat with Eddie Jones.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2015/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=11521536

Good read thanks. Jones comes across well... Maybe I just like him more now he's coach of Japan not Australia!

I would like to say that I was stunned that Barritt has kept his place, but other then injuries he's always been a Lancaster/Farrell sneak darling.

Even after two terrible games and nothing to show for a whole year before that he was always going to play, as you just knew the coaches were dreaming about that 1 good performance against Oz last year.

I have no problem with Faz junior, although I hope Care starts if Youngs is out, as its been proven in the past that the Wigglesworth/Faz axis doesn't work.

And with JJ at 13 that makes the backline quicker, but still only 1 playmaker.

I am also shocked that Barritt might keep his place! The only thing I can think of is that they think he played ok with JJ against Ireland. However, he has been poor in the last 2 games!

100% agree on Care, that yawning gap in the Welsh midfield when we were camped in their 22 that Wiggy kicked to Watson, Care would have run through it all day long.

At least if we start Burgess, we can have some actual versatility on the bench, why in the name of God was Nowell not there last week, he plays wing, fullback and has played outside centre for Exeter. We could have actually replaced Barritt with an attacking threat.

The obvious thing that stands out here is that Lancaster likes nice clean guys in his squad - He's more or less said that from the start and that is why on Saturday you did not have the services of, Hartley, Tuilagi, Steffan Armitage, Cipriani and perhaps most surprising of all 'cos that game was made for him in the last 20 mins, Danny Care.

He is trying to foster his own culture and whilst that is to be commended it will come at a price. Australia on the other hand don't give too much of a xxck what you do as long as you perform in the green and gold. A clear clash of cultures which transpose into paradoxical social and psychological dynamics on the field. Science v Art if you like.

Nowell is a good call the guy is a lethal strike runner I think England were afraid to win

Margot Robbie is out of this world...


And onto the rugby, firstly why is the England team leaked before every game? Surely it just gives the opposition a little more time to prepare?
Secondly, if we have a Wiggy, Faz and Barritt combo I will despair. I think all of them are decent players, but together that is a very uninspiring unit. Personally I thought Farrell played well last week so I can see why he is retained, but we desperately need a spark at 9 in that case. If the reports that Burgess is on the bench are true then we are really not making the best use of our squad.

"Quade is an electric 10 who brings a game breaking X factor England can only dream of. Pace, vision and a lightening pass that will crank open the predictable and narrow pommy defence."

Cooper won't even start I imagine as he was absolutely dross last week. Missed touch, ball out on the full, numerous poor kicks and failed passes....plus a yellow.

I pray to the rugby gods that Cooper starts as he's awful.

The culture stuff is great don't get me wrong, it's needed to connect the team with the public. But surely that is now job done!! We have a lot of support, Twickenham's atmosphere is the best it's been.

Can we now please have a few hard-nosed, intimidating, mean b**tards to actually win us these big games!

No 7&1/2 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Is there some indication that Barritt will start?  He still looks unrecovered from his prior injuries and not back to complete health.  A healthy Barritt is not always everyone's cup of tea, but to me is a player who can help win a World Cup.  Not so with an limited Barritt.  

To be fair he's always limited.

I get that.
I do believe a healthy Barritt would have helped close that game out. Howevver, he couldn't move properly during the match and his replacement(s) weakened England defensively. To me, that is mind-boggling.

He played the whole game, not sure his forte is defending in wider positions though as the France game last year showed.

Yappysnap Barritt was good in the first half like most England players.

When you have one of the most idiotic 10-12-13 line ups selected by a coach - Ford-Farrell-Barritt you're surprised it was exposed?


The silly thing is England fans think our backs are world class. Sorry folks but Watson and May are mediocre. Watson hasn't done much of note since the game in the 6 nations vs Wales. Been patient waiting for him to sparkle again but he hasn't. Couldn't even outpace Faletau. Could have bloody won the game if he did. Can't blame the centres for that even though I am sure you'll find a way!


The way to sum up May is Meh - he was okay vs Wales but he needs to have a big game in an important match.

Rubyguby it's not afraid to win - it's just poor management by Lancaster. Lancaster keeps making the same mistakes - a lack of leadership, being unable to make the right bench selections and decisions during the game.

To analytical robots like Lancaster and Farrell Sr training is more important. It's why in high pressure situations England have bottled it.

Training can only get you so far - it can't tell you how a player deals with high pressure.

Lancaster's leap of faith with Burgess IMO wasn't the reason England lost.

Lancaster's inability to give the likes of Itoje and George a chance though could have had an impact. You might say to me - they wouldn't have been good enough. They were good enough to beat Bath in the AP final and Saints in the semi, beating Racing Metro away in the ERCC and give Clermont a mighty ol' scare. Who knows?

They were never given an opportunity.

Of course some players will just be judged on how they perform in training.

I was wondering when you were going to find a way to criticise a winger beshocked, now its Watson for being unable to outpace Faletau??

Didn't Watson get to the ball slightly after the Welsh scrum half (i think) and was penalised for not letting him get up? He was clearly in front of Faletau for that? He also started about 5-10m behind the Welsh, and had taken that distance out of them

I take it you also missed the blocking lines being run by Faletau and the other Welsh player in front of Watson, its a lot harder to run round someone trying to stop you getting past

But let me guess, Ashton would have made it and won the game!!!

The back 3 is actually rather good beshocked. but we could have campese Lomu and Blanko and that midfield would make it look rubbish.

Sorry to break it to you but there's a few Saracens players who were deemed not good enough and Barritt and Wigglesworth played below par against Wales. And you focus on the wings.

RubyGuby wrote:The obvious thing that stands out here is that Lancaster likes nice clean guys in his squad - He's more or less said that from the start and that is why on Saturday you did not have the services of, Hartley, Tuilagi, Steffan Armitage, Cipriani and perhaps most surprising of all 'cos that game was made for him in the last 20 mins, Danny Care.

He is trying to foster his own culture and whilst that is to be commended it will come at a price. Australia on the other hand don't give too much of a xxck what you do as long as you perform in the green and gold. A clear clash of cultures which transpose into paradoxical social and psychological dynamics on the field. Science v Art if you like.

Nowell is a good call the guy is a lethal strike runner I think England were afraid to win

The culture of Daz?

All these early team news 'releases' have proven to be correct so a midfield of Farrell, Barritt and JJ will take the field on Saturday. Yet another new combination for another key RWC match. Very depressing and I just cannot fathom how the coaches have led us down this path? They are certainly increasing the risk of England not making it out of the pool.

On a positive note Farrell is in good form and has a club understanding with Barritt and at least Barritt and JJ played together V Fiji. Not ideal but at least it is something. I worry at how effective Farrell and Barritt will be in releasing JJ and the back 3 into space?

Anyway the boys are apparently angry and have their backs to the wall so hopefully they can force a performance out of themselves. Obviously our forwards need to have a stormer and lay the platform down and disrupt the Aussie backrow. Plus we need to practice big time our rolling maul defence.

Overall I cannot see past an Aussie win as they have improved from 12 months ago, particularly in the scrums, whereas England have declined. Not knowing England's best XV and not allowing that team to bed in together is a calamitous error.

Bambam I have been remarkably patient with Watson because I do think a player deserves some time.

Pretty sure Watson had the ball in hand and only needed to outpace Faletau which you would hope he would do. I am sorry Faletau shouldn't be able to catch him.

Even if was a 9 and a 8 you would hope that Watson as a winger would be able to outrun them.

Got nothing to do with Ashton.

Ashton might not have backed himself either - I remember a game - I think in 2013 when Ashton should have backed himself vs South Africa I believe - probably would have scored.

Ironically the winger I have been advocating since Ashton has been dropped has been Nowell because I think he had a better 6 nations in 2015 than both Watson and May - can't understand why he wasn't even on the bench.

No 7&1/2 wrote:He played the whole game, not sure his forte is defending in wider positions though as the France game last year showed.

Your'e right he played the whole game. It was Burgess who did play OK, was removed further weakening the defense. Sorry, over here I am on my morning coffee.

I'm going to say it!

Why does SL keep fiddling with his school kids? Line up?

I generally agree with you though doc, barritt is normally solid but when he's making the mistakes he is (and he probably isn't 100% match fit) he's no longer able to do the job required and adds little to nothing going forward.

TightHEAD wrote:I'm going to say it!

Why does SL keep fiddling with his school kids? Line up?

Boy Scouts and Choir Boys...............

beshocked wrote:Bambam I have been remarkably patient with Watson because I do think a player deserves some time.

Pretty sure Watson had the ball in hand and only needed to outpace Faletau which you would hope he would do. I am sorry Faletau shouldn't be able to catch him.

Even if was a 9 and a 8 you would hope that Watson as a winger would be able to outrun them.

Got nothing to do with Ashton.

Ashton might not have backed himself either - I remember a game - I think in 2013 when Ashton should have backed himself vs South Africa I believe - probably would have scored.

Ironically the winger I have been advocating since Ashton has been dropped has been Nowell because I think he had a better 6 nations in 2015 than both Watson and May - can't understand why he wasn't even on the bench.

Maybe we're thinking of different events. I thought you were talking about the time we got won the ball deep in our 22 fairly late on, ball went out to Watson and he kicked long and chased. The Welsh 9 got there first, with Watson falling on him as he gathered the ball, and Faletau and another Welsh player were very close by

Pretty sure it was after the Welsh try

And also, Nowell wouldn't be able to outpace anyone that Watson can't, Nowell offers a hell of a lot in different areas to Watson, but outright pace isnt one of them

No 7&1/2 wrote:I generally agree with you though doc, barritt is normally solid but when he's making the mistakes he is (and he probably isn't 100% match fit) he's no longer able to do the job required and adds little to nothing going forward.

That's also a bit odd. We can see he is limited compared to his normal. Yet, there he is. Adding nothing.

If Barritt is selected then we are out.

On the plus side you might be able to get tickets to watch Eng vs Uruguay.

Unfortunately we don't have Twelvetrees or Burrell in the squad or they'd be there. I think they see it as a necessity to have Barritt or Burgess and Burgess has allowed 2 clean breaks with poor positioning in 2 games.

The bigger problem is that Lancaster would still be in though Tighthead.

That's not a totally bad thing...but my concerns are all the mistakes that people are pointing out he keeps making. In team selections, in use of substitutions etc....

Think Cooper could crumble in the high pressure cauldron on Saturday night.

seanmichaels wrote:Think Cooper could crumble in the high pressure cauldron on Saturday night.

He will be on the bench at best.

no 7 &1/2 cut the crap for once. If in doubt blame someone else is your motto!

Even you haave to realise that Ford-Farrell-Barritt is a very stupid 10-12-13 combo. It was this combo that was guilty for the try. Is that focussing on the wings? No.

Not my fault guv, it was those other blokes' fault......

No acknowledgement that player X could have done better from you ever.

Were May and Watson perfect? No - they lost the game just like the rest of the England side.

The back three wasn't good enough.

England as a team weren't good enough, Lancaster again not good enough.

Need to find redemption on Saturday.

Bambam the incident I am thinking of Watson had the ball in hand - perhaps it's the same one? I guess I need to see it on video if I can.

By the way I should add I don't think England lost because of the back three but back three can be match winners which on the day they weren't.

What's up with you beshocked, a little grouchy even for your norm!? I agree that the midfield was rubbish both to start and end the match and that Barritt made a mistake building up to the try. The back 3 only got the ball when Wales passed it to them!

Forget the wings who did all they could focus on the stodge in midfield.

I reckon it was all Ben Youngs fault.

no 7 & 1/2 sick of singling out blame on Barritt and Wigglesworth when it was Lancaster who should be shouldering the biggest portion of the blame.

The midfield was fine for the first 40 - smashing Wales back with ease. Do you honestly think Wales looked like scoring a try till Lancaster's midfield shuffle?

If you forget England were leading at half time by 7 points. How many of the kickable penalties given away were Barritt and Burgess? Wales didn't look like breaking through England with Farrell-Burgess-Barritt.

The midfield tactics were working till Lancaster made the frankly brainless decision to put Ford-Farrell-Barritt.

Londontiger surprisingly Ben Youngs had a good game, shame he had to go off.

To be fair I'm singling the poor performance of the midfield along with Barritt continuing to be picked despite being well below par. I threw in Wiggle there as for some reason you're pointing the finger at the wings who both performed better than the replacement 9. As for the fact you don't like singling people out come off it you laid the blame for 2014 France at the feet of nowell and May (for having his nose broken!).

The midfield did nothing of an attacking note all game. The try came from where the 2 were used as decoys and that won't happen often! We should have been out of sight with 10 to go.

You see if Youngs had not allowed his ankle to be stamped on, he would not have had to leave the field. So he is obviousley to blame for the whole defeat as his departure was the catalyst for everything else.

Billy is another who can be blamed - so careless to rupture his knee ligaments.


Our two best players on the day allowed themselves to be injured, and be replaced by people who struggled to make any positive impact.


So Ben and Billy - HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME

As long as JJ is there we have a little bit of hope, but I'd prefer Ford to start and have Care on the bench instead of wigglesworth.

A fully fit Barritt would get the nod over Burgess for me but I just don't think Barritt is fit or in good form.

Care, Slade and Nowell could really make a difference to our game, and at the moment I have a sinking feeling that barring Uruguay none of them will get on the field in this tournament