England vs Australia, 3 October

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ENGLAND v AUSTRALIA
3 October 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: George Clancy (Ireland) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

43 Played 43
18 Won 24
1 Drawn 1
24 Lost 18
661 Points 907

B. Recent Form

29 November 2014
Twickenham, London
26 – 17 to England

2 November 2013
Twickenham, London
20 – 13 to England

17 November 2012
Twickenham, London
14 – 20 to Australia

13 November 2010
Twickenham, London
35 – 18 to England

19 June 2010
Telstra Stadium, Sydney
20 – 21 to England

12 June 2010
Subiaco Oval, Perth
27 – 17 to Australia

7 November 2009
Twickenham, London
9 – 18 to Australia

15 November 2008
Twickenham, London
14 – 28 to Australia

6 October 2007
Stade Vélodrome, Marseille, France
10 – 12 to England

C. Teams

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 41 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 13 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 25 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 18 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 33 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 35 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 26 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Exeter Chiefs, 27 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 40 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 41 caps)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 30 caps)

16. Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 25 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 14 caps)
19. George Kruis (Saracens, 8 caps)
20. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 52 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 25 caps)
22. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
23. Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)

AUSTRALIA

1. Scott Sio (12 Tests)
2. Stephen Moore (c) (97 Tests)
3. Sekope Kepu (58 Tests)
4. Kane Douglas (18 Tests)
5. Rob Simmons (55 Tests)
6. Scott Fardy (25 Tests)
7. Michael Hooper (vc) (47 Tests)
8. David Pocock (51 Tests)

9. Will Genia (61 Tests)
10. Bernard Foley (22 Tests)
11. Rob Horne (28 Tests)
12. Matt Giteau (97 Tests)
13. Tevita Kuridrani (25 Tests)
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper (vc) (109 Tests)
15. Israel Folau (34 Tests)

*Reserves to be confirmed

screamingaddabs wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

screamingaddabs wrote:Maybe the world cup should follow a "winner stays on" approach.  Start early in the morning.  Randomly chosen team starts first.  If you win a half (40 mins) you stay on.  Keep playing until midnight.  Whoever wins the final half of rugby is crowned the winner.  World cup takes a day.  Simple.

Harsh on the team that starts first, particularly if they are any good. England would be ok though, as they are the fittest team.

Well I like how the seedings were done for this world cup, so in a similar way all we need to do is base who starts on the rankings from 1902 and go from there.  Then people can hardly complain about the schedule nor who plays first etc.

I should also note that the referee doesn't change either so it could get a bit lawless late on.

I think we should just be consistent, and use the rankings from 1990-1991 for all future World Cups. That way we all know where we are. South Africa would have to be a special case though, but we could just put them in Wales' group.

beshocked wrote:Well the obvious gameplan which was stop Wales in their tracks which was mostly working.

The midfield of Burgess and Barritt didn't concede a try.

It was England's shocking discipline that kept allowing Wales to stay in the game. That was probably part of the gameplan which was a bit of a shambles.

Did the midfield give away loads of penalties?

They were generally fine in defence bar the mistake in either half no pens I remember. They helped stifle both attacks though.

I’ve said before Aus are the new France – they flatter to deceive with the occasional excellent game followed by a run of very average ones. I stand by that, but we’re about to find out. My only get out clause is that, like France, they tend to do well in RWCs.

I’m hoping for a big reaction from England and that may be enough. But SL seems to have drained the grit and determination from the team currently.

SL’s also suffering the English coach/pundit/fan condition of assuming there’s a world class centre combo around the corner if he can only find it. Our great depth (but limited strength) says no, so pick 4 or so centres that show the most promise and buy into the game-plan, and stick with them. To start a home RWC with such uncertainty in the midfield is just amateurish.

The Aussies have not exactly put out a dynamic team but then again neither have England. Smacks of low scoring match with England just sneaking home.

And now, an appropriate musical interlude:

ahhh...sanity restored.

Sing it, Tom.

Nice team talk for Aus from Cipriani and his baffling comments. What you don't want to do is fire up Australia, there isn't a more dangerous team when their backs are against the wall.

I could name a few Wallabies who could walk into that England side, starting at hooker!

Comparing any England centre at the moment to Adam Ashley-Cooper or Matt Gitau is a bit of an eye waterer as well.

beshocked wrote:
Hongkongcherry

Yep the right choice.... that's why the result was a penalty to Wales.... that's why he failed to score a try with an opportunity there. Wasn't the easiest opportunity I will admit but if Watson wants to be a match winner and wants to be labelled as "world class" or even very good he needs to back himself in these kind of situations.

He outpaced TF after kicking the ball away yes but he wasn't the first player to the ball was he?

Instead of trying to beat a number 8 with his pace (which if he had would have had no Welsh players ahead of him). he decided to rely on the fickle bounce on the ball, needing to get to the ball before 3 Welsh defenders and even if he did then he would have likely been isolated.

That's a bizarre argument Beshocked. There was not enough room to go past TFs left shoulder as he'd have either tackled him or got him into touch; and he had support on his right shoulder which would have left him isolated. The fact it ended up as a penalty has no bearing on whether he was right to kick or not. His sole mistake was falling onto Amos, had he not he'd have taken turnover ball in the England 22 to an attacking lineout in the Welsh 22. That for me is a clear indication it was the right decision; the dive wasn't.

George Carlin wrote:Comparing any England centre at the moment to Adam Ashley-Cooper or Matt Gitau is a bit of an eye waterer as well.

AAC is a quality player but at the end of his career and arguably out of position on the wing. Not sure if Matt Gitau is a 10 or a 12. Genia used to be one of the best around but was lucky to make it into the wider squad let alone the starting 15. It is a strange looking back line, with arguably 2 10's 3 13's and of course the wonderful Folau.

They do have some very good players and if the likes of Pocock and Foley get to dictate how the game goes then of course its gonna be hard if not impossible, but I think the win over the AB's has affected everyone's view of them.

The most recent evidence is that the same team failed to score as many points against a Fiji team on a short turn around as we did.

Most of Australia's backs are utility, and have been for a few years. They're all pretty awesome at it - AAC has been class in every position he's played.

lostinwales wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Comparing any England centre at the moment to Adam Ashley-Cooper or Matt Gitau is a bit of an eye waterer as well.

AAC is a quality player but at the end of his career and arguably out of position on the wing. Not sure if Matt Gitau is a 10 or a 12. Genia used to be one of the best around but was lucky to make it into the wider squad let alone the starting 15. It is a strange looking back line, with arguably 2 10's 3 13's and of course the wonderful Folau.

They do have some very good players and if the likes of Pocock and Foley get to dictate how the game goes then of course its gonna be hard if not impossible, but I think the win over the AB's has affected everyone's view of them.

The most recent evidence is that the same team failed to score as many points against a Fiji team on a short turn around as we did.

The problem is the Aussie backs usually appear competent in whatever role they are put into. Very flexible and adds significantly to the strength of their teams.

Giteau is a 12 who sometimes prefers to play 10. He cut his teeth as a 12 outside Larkham and inside Mortlock, both at Brumbies and Wallabies. A very good 12 and a decent enough 10.

I do wonder which Australia team will show up against England: The one who beat the ABs? Or the team that stuttered to wins over the USA and Fiji. The Eagles could/should have been ahead in the second half if their lineout was not so shambolic.

I think Australia will try to turn up as the sides that beat the ABs. Gotta show respect to England

England have 22 hours left in this World Cup.

I hope they enjoy it.

donglewood wrote:England have 22 hours left in this World Cup.

I hope they enjoy it.

That might change depending on the number of TMO's

SecretFly wrote:I think Australia will try to turn up as the sides that beat the ABs.  Gotta show respect to England

Well, I hope not.

Hey, I think you might find this interesting, I was rather surprised myself: So far, there have been none of those embarrassing and disrespectful 80, 90, or 100 point drubbings we have seen in past World Cups. In fact not many scorelines over 50 points at all. I wonder whether the tier 1 teams are finally showing respect to the lower level teams by not rubbing it in their faces? Whether the lower level teams are playing better? Or if the gap is closing just a wee bit? Or is it something else?

Clearly Fiji's performance against Wales, England , and Australia is not a fluke. Hopefully some others are not a fluke either........

doctor_grey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I think Australia will try to turn up as the sides that beat the ABs.  Gotta show respect to England

Well, I hope not.  

Hey, I think you might find this interesting, I was rather surprised myself:  So far, there have been none of those embarrassing and disrespectful 80, 90, or 100 point drubbings we have seen in past World Cups.  In fact not many scorelines over 50 points at all.  I wonder whether the tier 1 teams are finally showing respect to the lower level teams by not rubbing it in their faces?  Whether the lower level teams are playing better?  Or if the gap is closing just a wee bit?  Or is it something else?

Clearly Fiji's performance against Wales, England , and Australia is not a fluke.  Hopefully some others are not a fluke either........

I think the answer would be B.

Especially all these coaches from rugby backgrounds in tier one countries going off to get international coaching experience doing a tier two gig.

I don't think for one moment Australia will count on beating Wales easily. Our record is poor but the points difference in most games in less than a try.

Aussie will go out to beat England and IMO will do so easily after all 3rd playing 6th no brainer.

Aussie will know there is a small proud country quite close to England where 3,000,000 will be cheering them on.

ALL THE BEST AUSSIE

rainbow-warrior wrote:Aussie will know there is a small proud country quite close to England where 3,000,000 will be cheering them on.

They won't give that the slightest thought.

https://youtu.be/bQLL9se9ay0

Worth watching just to see Stuart Barnes with a 'tache!

This exchange between Brian Moore and David Campese is worth a read.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11905484/England-v-Australia-Brian-Moore-and-David-Campese-reflect-on-their-teams-biggest-World-Cup-clashes.html

rainbow-warrior wrote:I don't think for one moment Australia will count on beating Wales easily.  Our record is poor but the points difference in most games in less than a try.

Aussie will go out to beat England and IMO will do so easily after all 3rd playing 6th no brainer.

Aussie will know there is a small proud country quite close to England where 3,000,000 will be cheering them on.

ALL THE BEST AUSSIE

Nearly all the recent games have been decided in Australias favor in the last move of the match with Wales winning up until that point.

I don't think the rankings actually mean anything, most of the top teams can beat the other top teams on any given day. I don't feel there is anything between England, Wales, Ireland, South Africa and Australia at the moment. It's all on the day.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:Aussie will know there is a small proud country quite close to England where 3,000,000 will be cheering them on.

They won't give that the slightest thought.

Belgium? They are very proud of being small.........

They probably won't give it the slightest thought, but I think there's a lot more than 3M people cheering the Wallabies on to go and help make history... Me personally, would rather see both England and Wales beat Australia . If England win tonight though, I know our job in 10 days time is going to be a whole lot tougher. I hope Gatland has the boyo's back to the drawing board working on our issues, otherwise we've no chance.

mikey_dragon wrote:They probably won't give it the slightest thought, but I think there's a lot more than 3M people cheering the Wallabies on to go and help make history... Me personally, would rather see both England and Wales beat Australia . If England win tonight though, I know our job in 10 days time is going to be a whole lot tougher. I hope Gatland has the boyo's back to the drawing board working on our issues, otherwise we've no chance.

We have three wins from three and nine days to focus on winning the next four games.

Isn't the third covered by the first two?

mikey_dragon wrote:They probably won't give it the slightest thought, but I think there's a lot more than 3M people cheering the Wallabies on to go and help make history... Me personally, would rather see both England and Wales beat Australia . If England win tonight though, I know our job in 10 days time is going to be a whole lot tougher. I hope Gatland has the boyo's back to the drawing board working on our issues, otherwise we've no chance.

You are probably right, and I always kind of support the Home Nations because we are , mostly, all Brits (as opposed to beign part of Schalk Brits family).  

I love this article from today's telegraph:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11908652/Please-God-dont-let-us-lose-to-the-Aussies-this-weekend.html

doctor_grey wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:They probably won't give it the slightest thought, but I think there's a lot more than 3M people cheering the Wallabies on to go and help make history... Me personally, would rather see both England and Wales beat Australia . If England win tonight though, I know our job in 10 days time is going to be a whole lot tougher. I hope Gatland has the boyo's back to the drawing board working on our issues, otherwise we've no chance.

You are probably right, and I always kind of support the Home Nations because we are , mostly, all Brits (as opposed to beign part of Schalk Brits family).  

I love this article from today's telegraph:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11908652/Please-God-dont-let-us-lose-to-the-Aussies-this-weekend.html

Yes Doc I read that too. We have some friends from Sydney coming to stay after tonight's match...

maestegmafia wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:They probably won't give it the slightest thought, but I think there's a lot more than 3M people cheering the Wallabies on to go and help make history... Me personally, would rather see both England and Wales beat Australia . If England win tonight though, I know our job in 10 days time is going to be a whole lot tougher. I hope Gatland has the boyo's back to the drawing board working on our issues, otherwise we've no chance.

You are probably right, and I always kind of support the Home Nations because we are , mostly, all Brits (as opposed to beign part of Schalk Brits family).  

I love this article from today's telegraph:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11908652/Please-God-dont-let-us-lose-to-the-Aussies-this-weekend.html

Yes Doc I read that too. We have some friends from Sydney coming to stay after tonight's match...

No offense, but I hope you all have a rather sedate and relatively unhappy evening. At least when discussing the Rugby.

doctor_grey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:They probably won't give it the slightest thought, but I think there's a lot more than 3M people cheering the Wallabies on to go and help make history... Me personally, would rather see both England and Wales beat Australia . If England win tonight though, I know our job in 10 days time is going to be a whole lot tougher. I hope Gatland has the boyo's back to the drawing board working on our issues, otherwise we've no chance.

You are probably right, and I always kind of support the Home Nations because we are , mostly, all Brits (as opposed to beign part of Schalk Brits family).  

I love this article from today's telegraph:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11908652/Please-God-dont-let-us-lose-to-the-Aussies-this-weekend.html

Yes Doc I read that too. We have some friends from Sydney coming to stay after tonight's match...

No offense, but I hope you all have a rather sedate and relatively unhappy evening.  At least when discussing the Rugby.

I'm supporting Wales and the team I expect to lose. Though I'm kind of rooting for Italy, Scotland, Ireland and Japan too.

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:They probably won't give it the slightest thought, but I think there's a lot more than 3M people cheering the Wallabies on to go and help make history... Me personally, would rather see both England and Wales beat Australia . If England win tonight though, I know our job in 10 days time is going to be a whole lot tougher. I hope Gatland has the boyo's back to the drawing board working on our issues, otherwise we've no chance.

We have three wins from three and nine days to focus on winning the next four games.

Yes maestegmafia, you do have 3 wins from 3 game.

But no bonus point win against Fiji. Hmmmmmm how that could come back to bite you in the but.

Typical Hogg shoulders charges Biggar in the face and moans, then acts like he's been hit like a truck after a tap. We should call him Ronaldo from now on.

majesticimperialman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:They probably won't give it the slightest thought, but I think there's a lot more than 3M people cheering the Wallabies on to go and help make history... Me personally, would rather see both England and Wales beat Australia . If England win tonight though, I know our job in 10 days time is going to be a whole lot tougher. I hope Gatland has the boyo's back to the drawing board working on our issues, otherwise we've no chance.

We have three wins from three and nine days to focus on winning the next four games.

Yes maestegmafia, you do have 3 wins from 3 game.

But no bonus point win against Fiji. Hmmmmmm how that could come back to bite you in the but.

Played 3 won 3, what more can any team do than that?
I'd rather have that than played 2 lost 1!

Bit quiet before this big game, reading the papers against today there is only one winner again, will they be wrong again?

Great moments are born from great opportunity, and that's what you have here tonight, boys. That's what you've earned here tonight. One game; if we played them ten times, they might win nine. But not this game, not tonight. Tonight we stay with them, and we shut them down because we can. Tonight, we are the greatest rugby team in the world. You were born to be rugby players—every one of you, and you were meant to be here tonight. This is your time. Their time is done. It's over. I'm sick and tired of hearing about what a great rugby team they are.

What are the permutations if England and Australia draw?

Would England supporters have to stuff their pride and support Wales against Australia?
Or
Would England supporters have to stuff their pride and support Australia against Wales?

Clearly I want England to win, and win with 4 tries. But the humour potential of a draw is significant.....

If that happens I'm supporting NZ the next best team.

glamorganalun wrote:Bit quiet before this big game, reading the papers against today there is only one winner again, will they be wrong again?

Tip for you, don't read the papers. Journo's don't represent the whole of england

nathan wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Bit quiet before this big game, reading the papers against today there is only one winner again, will they be wrong again?

Tip for you, don't read the papers. Journo's don't represent the whole of england

Don't tell that to the folk who love to weave completely fictitious stories of English arrogance!

In one way I want Wales to do well but that means England lose but in another way, I really want England to beat Australia. Just cant see them doing it with Farrell at 10 though.

The breakdown will be interesting with two 7's on one side and two 6's on the other looking forward to the game, I think Australia will win as England have gone away from their 6N play of exciting attacking rugby.

If the average English supporter is anything like me, they'll be hoping for the best but fearing the worst.

glamorganalun wrote:The breakdown will be interesting with two 7's on one side and two 6's on the other looking forward to the game, I think Australia will win as England have gone away from their 6N play of exciting attacking rugby.

They are quality 7s no doubt about that, but can they be at every break down 1st over 80mins?

IT'S ON.

I don't mind addmiting it i am really nervous right now.

Come on ENGLAND.

Australia to win by 7

TightHEAD wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:The breakdown will be interesting with two 7's on one side and two 6's on the other looking forward to the game, I think Australia will win as England have gone away from their 6N play of exciting attacking rugby.

They are quality 7s no doubt about that, but can they be at every break down 1st over 80mins?

They could be out of sight after 40 mins if they win all the ball

I won't be vindictive I know if Wales beat Australia we will be through regardless of this result. Lets just hope for a good exciting game of rugby.

doctor_grey wrote:What are the permutations if England and Australia draw?

Would England supporters have to stuff their pride and support Wales against Australia?  
Or
Would England supporters have to stuff their pride and support Australia against Wales?

Clearly I want England to win, and win with 4 tries.  But the humour potential of a draw is significant.....  

Please dont turn the thread into a discussion on that, you'll blow our minds...

Folau butchered that! It was a walk in for the winger!