England vs Australia, 3 October

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ENGLAND v AUSTRALIA
3 October 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: George Clancy (Ireland) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

43 Played 43
18 Won 24
1 Drawn 1
24 Lost 18
661 Points 907

B. Recent Form

29 November 2014
Twickenham, London
26 – 17 to England

2 November 2013
Twickenham, London
20 – 13 to England

17 November 2012
Twickenham, London
14 – 20 to Australia

13 November 2010
Twickenham, London
35 – 18 to England

19 June 2010
Telstra Stadium, Sydney
20 – 21 to England

12 June 2010
Subiaco Oval, Perth
27 – 17 to Australia

7 November 2009
Twickenham, London
9 – 18 to Australia

15 November 2008
Twickenham, London
14 – 28 to Australia

6 October 2007
Stade Vélodrome, Marseille, France
10 – 12 to England

C. Teams

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 41 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 13 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 25 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 18 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 33 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 35 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 26 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Exeter Chiefs, 27 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 40 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 41 caps)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 30 caps)

16. Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 25 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 14 caps)
19. George Kruis (Saracens, 8 caps)
20. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 52 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 25 caps)
22. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
23. Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)

AUSTRALIA

1. Scott Sio (12 Tests)
2. Stephen Moore (c) (97 Tests)
3. Sekope Kepu (58 Tests)
4. Kane Douglas (18 Tests)
5. Rob Simmons (55 Tests)
6. Scott Fardy (25 Tests)
7. Michael Hooper (vc) (47 Tests)
8. David Pocock (51 Tests)

9. Will Genia (61 Tests)
10. Bernard Foley (22 Tests)
11. Rob Horne (28 Tests)
12. Matt Giteau (97 Tests)
13. Tevita Kuridrani (25 Tests)
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper (vc) (109 Tests)
15. Israel Folau (34 Tests)

*Reserves to be confirmed

mckay1402 wrote:I think Wales will beat Australia

That's cheered me up, thanks fella.

Notch wrote:You know, I love watching this Aussie team and the comeback from the Welsh against all the odds last weekend was such an iconic RWC moment. But despite that its hard not to feel slightly gutted that we're not going to see the kind of atmosphere we had in Twickenham supporting the hosts. Any tournament like this really suffers when the host nation goes out early. It's the heart out of the tournament.

And the World Rugby accountants are also devastated.

Notch you're usually full of common sense, but to suggest that the RWC is Somehow diminished by the departure of the fair weather chariot warriors is nonsense, they're streaming out 10 mins before game end. Put simply England don't deserve to be in the QF, and it's nonsense to say tat this World Cup is lessened by their exit

Congrats Australia, thumping victory. I genuinely feel for the England fans hurting now, goodness I've been there enough.

The formula that England was developing earlier this year was a good one. Ford is the best 10 in England, JJ is the best 13, Care is your best 9, please Keep a promising inexperienced 6 out of the centre. England could get back to that quite quickly. SL really let you down after the hard work was done.

mckay1402 wrote:I think Wales will beat Australia

Love your enthusiasm but not a chance! We couldn't do it 10 times, half at home, with pretty much full strength teams. How can we do it on neutral ground missing loads of of 1st choice players against a team playing as well as Aus? And an Aus team with a good scrum. Even WE used to get change out of their scrum! We're toast...

brennomac wrote:

Notch wrote:You know, I love watching this Aussie team and the comeback from the Welsh against all the odds last weekend was such an iconic RWC moment. But despite that its hard not to feel slightly gutted that we're not going to see the kind of atmosphere we had in Twickenham supporting the hosts. Any tournament like this really suffers when the host nation goes out early. It's the heart out of the tournament.

And the World Rugby accountants are also devastated.

Notch you're usually full of common sense, but to suggest that the RWC is Somehow diminished by the departure of the fair weather chariot warriors is nonsense, they're streaming out 10 mins before game end. Put simply England don't deserve to be in the QF, and it's nonsense to say tat this World Cup is lessened by their exit

What a Mr Winklechops comment to make.

I didn't say the World Cup was lessened, in fact I think the teams that deserve to go through the pool of death absolutely have. It's just a sad thing for me, to see the enthusiasm that surrounds the host nation have cold water poured on it so early. It doesn't diminish the tournament. It doesn't lessen it. It's just me having a reaction as a neutral fan.

Commiserations fellas. That was close to if not our best performance in some time. Obviously proud to get a win but the tournament will be poorer for you going out.

Steve_rugby wrote:

brennomac wrote:

Notch wrote:You know, I love watching this Aussie team and the comeback from the Welsh against all the odds last weekend was such an iconic RWC moment. But despite that its hard not to feel slightly gutted that we're not going to see the kind of atmosphere we had in Twickenham supporting the hosts. Any tournament like this really suffers when the host nation goes out early. It's the heart out of the tournament.

And the World Rugby accountants are also devastated.

Notch you're usually full of common sense, but to suggest that the RWC is Somehow diminished by the departure of the fair weather chariot warriors is nonsense, they're streaming out 10 mins before game end. Put simply England don't deserve to be in the QF, and it's nonsense to say tat this World Cup is lessened by their exit

What a Mr Winklechops comment to make.

Mr Winklechops?

Well done Australia. Played us off the park.
Good luck Wales.

Griff wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:I think Wales will beat Australia

Love your enthusiasm but not a chance! We couldn't do it 10 times, half at home, with pretty much full strength teams. How can we do it on neutral ground missing loads of of 1st choice players against a team playing as well as Aus? And an Aus team with a good scrum. Even WE used to get change out of their scrum! We're toast...

I suppose we are clear favourites but you never know... even with all of the injuries Wales have. They certainly don't lack that fighting spirit.

However, the Wallabies will most likely keep the momentum going.
Pretty sure they don't play to the "who will be our next opponent" thing although they are of course aware of the permutations.
They don't really care who they will meet in the QF but I'd much prefer the easier route with Scotland.

SA have had a rude jolt. And ask Biltong (or any SA fan) if they are seeking a tiny bit of revenge after Wellington RWC 2011.

If you ask me - it's best we try and avoid our southern cousins!

mikey_dragon wrote:
Mr Winklechops?

B e l l e n d

Hard luck England fans - sorry that you are out of the tournament, though fair play to Australia, they did well. The World Cup will be poorer without you.

I read a vicious rumour that Launchbury got MOTM. Is someone having me on? It was clearly either Foley, Giteau or Pocock.

It's ok, we'll feel much better when we look at the player ratings in the newspapers tomorrow and read all about how England were better than Australia man for man.

Cipriani...

mikey_dragon wrote:I read a vicious rumour that Launchbury got MOTM. Is someone having me on? It was clearly either Foley, Giteau or Pocock.

Australian lock Douglas was immense too, as were the props.

So good to see Giteau go over in the corner late in the game.

Mind boggling how he was part of 2003, then fell out of favour when Oz was struggling, came of age in France with Toulon... and now here he is again. I'm really happy for the guy. Another example of more smart thinking from Cheika.

Espee66 wrote:B Youngs total Poopie so far .

Bit surprising, with his talk before the game.

VinceWLB wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:I read a vicious rumour that Launchbury got MOTM. Is someone having me on? It was clearly either Foley, Giteau or Pocock.

Australian lock Douglas was immense too, as were the props.

I agree Vince, Luke douglas really took the battle to the English forwards, didnt duck anything.

There's only one MOM there and he scored 28 Pts Great team effort though

Pleased to escape the group and even more happy with the way the Wallabies played. The scrum, wow. Never thought i'd see that in my lifetime. Commiserations to the English fans

Joe Launchbury did get MOM

Is Lancaster really contracted to the RFU till after RWC 2019?! That was a big call.

ebop wrote:Is Lancaster really contracted to the RFU till after RWC 2019?! That was a big call.

Not as big as the one to go for the line out

Wow, there were a number of better performing wallabies than anyone in the English side!

RubyGuby wrote:

ebop wrote:Is Lancaster really contracted to the RFU till after RWC 2019?! That was a big call.

Not as big as the one to go for the line out

Too soon RubyGuby, just way too soon.

ebop wrote:And dongle. As a proud Australian you'll be stoked

RubyGuby wrote:Joe Launchbury did get MOM

What! you mean the lock that wasnt pushing?

mckay1402 wrote:I think Wales will beat Australia

They're certainly due one. I can't see how though, even if we were at full strength.

Yeah sorry about that one ebop no offence mate I've been where you are now and it takes time you'll all be back in time

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Joe Launchbury did get MOM

What! you mean the lock that wasnt pushing?

It is one of the strangest decisions I've seen but hey ho

RubyGuby wrote:Yeah sorry about that one ebop no offence mate I've been where you are now and it takes time you'll all be back in time

I'm a kiwi. But I think I know where England are right now. It's sickening I bet. But maybe for them the aftermath will bring a positive change / overhaul like what we went through in 2007.

RubyGuby wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Joe Launchbury did get MOM

What! you mean the lock that wasnt pushing?

It is one of the strangest decisions I've seen but hey ho

Strange? yes. Disrespectful, certainly.

Well, to all the regular English fans on here, I offer my commiserations.  I guess most fans of rugby know only too well that sickening gut feeling at losing a big one that had big implications.  The terrible deflation.  And of course in a few short weeks more of us will feel that same feeling along the way.  Getting further doesn't lessen the hollowness when defeat hits you.

I had England down to win because I expected Lancaster to return to the more expressive and opportunistic England of late that had Ford at the core.  But of course, he must have concluded that the Welsh game (whatever about the result) was good enough to throw Farrell in there again.  
So he - or some of his fellow coaches - obviously and simply didn't learn that the Welsh game was never enough, even if they had won by a small margin.  It was never enough.  

Michael Cheika has his reputation and I think someone in the English management team either ignored it or felt his successes to date were flukes.
He was always going to construct a team that wouldn't take a backward step when the chips were down in a genuine contest.  He was always going to put out a team that wouldn't be intimidated by the occasion, the opposition or the location.
England lost faith in their blueprint JUST when the time arrived that they were honing it for.  'Why was Farrell given the World Cup?', would be my main question to Lancaster. And when he talked around it for a while I'd ask him it again: 'Why was Farrell given the World Cup?'

offload wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Joe Launchbury did get MOM

What! you mean the lock that wasnt pushing?

It is one of the strangest decisions I've seen but hey ho

Strange?  yes.  Disrespectful, certainly.
 

No Australian player qualified due to declaration by Cips.

I thought it was quite chilling in some respects that in the weeks build up to the game we heard nothing from the Aus camp. That is unusual and has the hallmark of Chieka all over it. Compare that with some of the dross in the media. All round Aus were very well prepared for this game

brennomac wrote:

Notch wrote:You know, I love watching this Aussie team and the comeback from the Welsh against all the odds last weekend was such an iconic RWC moment. But despite that its hard not to feel slightly gutted that we're not going to see the kind of atmosphere we had in Twickenham supporting the hosts. Any tournament like this really suffers when the host nation goes out early. It's the heart out of the tournament.

And the World Rugby accountants are also devastated.

Notch you're usually full of common sense, but to suggest that the RWC is Somehow diminished by the departure of the fair weather chariot warriors is nonsense, they're streaming out 10 mins before game end. Put simply England don't deserve to be in the QF, and it's nonsense to say tat this World Cup is lessened by their exit

Hate to say it brennomac, but I think it will diminish it. At least until the final when these things normally pick up again. I think the atmosphere of a tournament goes very flat after a host team is knocked out. I always want the hosts to do well for that reason. It won't diminish it for the fans of other countries I'm sure, but tournaments always benefit from a sense of excitement in the nation they're held. I don't think rugby has enough fans here to generate sustained continued interest.

Yeah, the wallabies have finally found the right coach. It could be a scary few years for us all. It's un-Australian to have a quiet humble achiever coach* in any of their sports teams. Sorry to the Australians for that generalisation. But it's my impression. And it's working!

* Wayne Bennett aside.

SecretFly wrote:Well, to all the regular English fans on here, I offer my commiserations.  I guess most fans of rugby know only too well that sickening gut feeling at losing a big one that had big implications.  The terrible deflation.  And of course in a few short weeks more of us will feel that same feeling along the way.  Getting further doesn't lessen the hollowness when defeat hits you.

I had England down to win because I expected Lancaster to return to the more expressive and opportunistic England of late that had Ford at the core.  But of course, he must have concluded that the Welsh game (whatever about the result) was good enough to throw Farrell in there again.  
So he - or some of his fellow coaches - obviously and simply didn't learn that the Welsh game was never enough, even if they had won by a small margin.  It was never enough.  

Michael Cheika has his reputation and I think someone in the English management team either ignored it or felt his successes to date were flukes.
He was always going to construct a team that wouldn't take a backward step when the chips were down in a genuine contest.  He was always going to put out a team that wouldn't be intimidated by the occasion, the opposition or the location.
England lost faith in their blueprint JUST when the time arrived that they were honing it for.  'Why was Farrell given the World Cup?', would be my main question to Lancaster. And when he talked around it for a while I'd ask him it again: 'Why was Farrell given the World Cup?'

I think that's a question a lot of people are asking ... it's bad enough to go out, but going out knowing we had every opportunity to do so much better makes it worse ...

Commiserations to the English for tonight. A tough one to take, certainly.

Well done Australia. Really enjoyed watching them play. Not surprised at the result of the pool. I'm one of those that don't see a massive improvement in England in the last few years. Most of that seems more down to us having better players than coaching/tactical improvements. England a decent team and both Wales and Australia had to perform well to beat them at home, so well done to both.

Come on the cherry blossoms

I think that was the worst performance by a rugby team in this WC so far.... that pathetic Samoan effort against the blossoms.  It was painful in its shoddiness and lethargy.

Humility. Hopefully now then English media (and some of their more obnoxious fans) will finally understand how close the margins within the top ten international sides truly are – and not merely pay lip service to it. England are a good side. But not a God Given World Cup Final Side. Obviously, I am delighted for Wales to go through, but I do feel for my English mates. A little bit

Don't mean to turn the knife, but very pleasing to see Marler finally being pinged off the park for his absurd 90 degrees driving technique (though it seemed to come via the linesman - not the useless French ref).

Poite spent an entire game waiting for directions on how to ref from anyone who cared to tell him

"Yeah............ whad a I?.................. you think? What?............. Do I want to give a yellow? Tell me, what you think?...................... NO! - what you think? No, I know I'm ref but I asked first. What you think I should do???"

This is hilarious - Guardian trying to pass off the hysterical English media bias onto fans and management.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/oct/04/england-stuart-lancaster-rugby-world-cup-australia

SecretFly wrote:Poite spent an entire game waiting for directions on how to ref from anyone who cared to tell him

"Yeah............ whad a I?.................. you think?   What?.............  Do I want to give a yellow?  Tell me, what you think?...................... NO! - what you think?  No, I know I'm ref but I asked first.  What you think I should do???"

Poite is embarrassingly bad. He didn't even look at the breakdown the entire game!!! Every major call came form the linesmen. He just let the breakdown go (he could have pinged England off the park for holding on in the first half).

MarcusHalberstram wrote:This is hilarious - Guardian trying to pass off the hysterical English media bias onto fans and management.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/oct/04/england-stuart-lancaster-rugby-world-cup-australia

Interestingly enough that flid had England to win by six in his predictions, and now he is lambasting the fans for exactly the same thing he was guilty of. Zero quality in sports writing these days.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/oct/02/england-australia-rugby-world-cup-predictions

Sounds like Andy Ball lost a bit of money and ain't well pleased about it.

brennomac wrote:

Notch wrote:You know, I love watching this Aussie team and the comeback from the Welsh against all the odds last weekend was such an iconic RWC moment. But despite that its hard not to feel slightly gutted that we're not going to see the kind of atmosphere we had in Twickenham supporting the hosts. Any tournament like this really suffers when the host nation goes out early. It's the heart out of the tournament.

And the World Rugby accountants are also devastated.

Notch you're usually full of common sense, but to suggest that the RWC is Somehow diminished by the departure of the fair weather chariot warriors is nonsense, they're streaming out 10 mins before game end. Put simply England don't deserve to be in the QF, and it's nonsense to say tat this World Cup is lessened by their exit

This.

Hopefully WR / the RFU can encourage England supporters to adopt teams that are left in, and cheer them on at matches.