England vs Australia, 3 October

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ENGLAND v AUSTRALIA
3 October 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: George Clancy (Ireland) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

43 Played 43
18 Won 24
1 Drawn 1
24 Lost 18
661 Points 907

B. Recent Form

29 November 2014
Twickenham, London
26 – 17 to England

2 November 2013
Twickenham, London
20 – 13 to England

17 November 2012
Twickenham, London
14 – 20 to Australia

13 November 2010
Twickenham, London
35 – 18 to England

19 June 2010
Telstra Stadium, Sydney
20 – 21 to England

12 June 2010
Subiaco Oval, Perth
27 – 17 to Australia

7 November 2009
Twickenham, London
9 – 18 to Australia

15 November 2008
Twickenham, London
14 – 28 to Australia

6 October 2007
Stade Vélodrome, Marseille, France
10 – 12 to England

C. Teams

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 41 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 13 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 14 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 25 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 18 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 33 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 35 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 26 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Exeter Chiefs, 27 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 40 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 41 caps)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 30 caps)

16. Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 25 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 14 caps)
19. George Kruis (Saracens, 8 caps)
20. Nick Easter (Harlequins, 52 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 25 caps)
22. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
23. Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)

AUSTRALIA

1. Scott Sio (12 Tests)
2. Stephen Moore (c) (97 Tests)
3. Sekope Kepu (58 Tests)
4. Kane Douglas (18 Tests)
5. Rob Simmons (55 Tests)
6. Scott Fardy (25 Tests)
7. Michael Hooper (vc) (47 Tests)
8. David Pocock (51 Tests)

9. Will Genia (61 Tests)
10. Bernard Foley (22 Tests)
11. Rob Horne (28 Tests)
12. Matt Giteau (97 Tests)
13. Tevita Kuridrani (25 Tests)
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper (vc) (109 Tests)
15. Israel Folau (34 Tests)

*Reserves to be confirmed

quinsforever wrote:What did wilko say?

Farrell, Burgess and Barritt are fecking Poopie.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:To top off it he has no genuine back three cover on the bench so end up having to shift our most dangerous player to the wing and ending up with a god damn centre combination of Farrell and Barritt. He is no doubt of the mindset that Ford is a defensive liability but that's a load of BS when he's not a complete tool like Farrell, that one hit by Sexton many months ago seems to have made his mind up.

Then there's the issue of overseas players, Australia had Hooper and Pocock at the breakdown but we decided not to select someone just as good because he plays in France.

Think it's fair to say Lancaster bottled his selection massively. And it'll rightly cost him his job

TightHEAD wrote:

donglewood wrote:I thought both Farrell and Barrett should've been put in the bin.

Farrell probably deserved a red.

Oh look a troll.

Well Johnny Wilkinson and Sir Clive Woodward did say that there should have been 2 yellows. They should know a thing about rugby - they did win a world cup after all.

Olly wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:To top off it he has no genuine back three cover on the bench so end up having to shift our most dangerous player to the wing and ending up with a god damn centre combination of Farrell and Barritt. He is no doubt of the mindset that Ford is a defensive liability but that's a load of BS when he's not a complete tool like Farrell, that one hit by Sexton many months ago seems to have made his mind up.

Then there's the issue of overseas players, Australia had Hooper and Pocock at the breakdown but we decided not to select someone just as good because he plays in France.

Think it's fair to say Lancaster bottled his selection massively. And it'll rightly cost him his job

I think Lancaster job is safe for now.

Congrats Australia

Commiserations England. Honestly feel bad for you guys, but you have a great team of players, and you live to fight another day

protea438 wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:

donglewood wrote:I thought both Farrell and Barrett should've been put in the bin.

Farrell probably deserved a red.

Oh look a troll.

Well Johnny Wilkinson and Sir Clive Woodward did say that there should have been 2 yellows. They should know a thing about rugby - they did win a world cup after all.

My Missus reckoned there should have been two yellows.

Those who though England would walk over the Aus scrum must feel pretty bad right now..

VinceWLB wrote:So SA-Wales and Aus-Scotland it is then? Should be fun..

Looks likely. And then NZ-Ireland/France and Argentina-France/Ireland. Think it will be the first of both possibilities.
Mouth watering matches for the quarters... and onwards.

When bomber was appointed it was mentioned that they were aiming for 2019 so I don't think he'll be leaving

I think the Burgess tackle was worse , high then rolled by the neck .

Aus are a really good team I think that should be noted, they're going to go far. But equally, it should be noted that since the Autumn (i know they've had players back, but...) we've gone backwards compared to them. That may be partly personnel, but it is also the difference between having a smart, savvy coach, and having a PE teacher saying stuff about 'culture' and 'pride in the jersey'.

Sadly, far too many people bought into that PR bilge and overlooked the fact that whatever the nonsense under Johnson, he still won a 6N and made a quarter final, and however bad our 2007 team, it still made a final. Cut it how you like, but it is an abject failure compared to our previous efforts.

We desperately need to get a proven int. coach involved, or, frankly, anyone with top level experience. We can't keep hiring well meaning amateurs.

Lancaster and Rowntrees' positions are no longer tenable and I hope that they confirm my belief that they are great guys by volunteering their resignations effective immediately after the Uruguay game. 

He brought the players a long way and he deserves a massive amount of credit but he was far too wedded to his favourite players (Farrell, Robshaw, Tualagi, Burgess) to see that the team as a whole would be better served holistically if different choices were made. It's the end of a natural cycle for this coaching team and good luck to them. 

A masterclass from Foley, who fully came of age tonight.

Vince: who was that? The oz scrum has vbeen good all year

Jeezus guess it's all burgess's fault again. If wilko said that he's officially an idiot. Burgess player 10 minutes. Farrell, barritt and no fetcher is what lost England this game. Not no facing burgess.

And Australia were good. No mistakes, took their chances, turned over amazingly.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Olly wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:To top off it he has no genuine back three cover on the bench so end up having to shift our most dangerous player to the wing and ending up with a god damn centre combination of Farrell and Barritt. He is no doubt of the mindset that Ford is a defensive liability but that's a load of BS when he's not a complete tool like Farrell, that one hit by Sexton many months ago seems to have made his mind up.

Then there's the issue of overseas players, Australia had Hooper and Pocock at the breakdown but we decided not to select someone just as good because he plays in France.

Think it's fair to say Lancaster bottled his selection massively. And it'll rightly cost him his job

I think Lancaster job is safe for now.

Think or hope? I think the result may be bad enough for him to get the elbow. Fingers crossed.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

protea438 wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:

donglewood wrote:I thought both Farrell and Barrett should've been put in the bin.

Farrell probably deserved a red.

Oh look a troll.

Well Johnny Wilkinson and Sir Clive Woodward did say that there should have been 2 yellows. They should know a thing about rugby - they did win a world cup after all.

My Missus reckoned there should have been two yellows.

All i am saying is i rather take the word of a former world cup winning coach and an excellent former rugby player than some keyboard warriors.

Australia were just a much better side. That second try was pure class.

Sad to see England out so early, but the damage was done against Wales.

Just occurred to me that Japan have won more games at this World Cup than England, and have beaten better opposition than us.

nathan wrote:Vince: who was that? The oz scrum has vbeen good all year

Lots of people, not on here but at work, on the streets, i've seen a lot of them.

If your going to say they deserved yellow you should be point out that hooper should of got one too

VinceWLB wrote:So SA-Wales and Aus-Scotland it is then? Should be fun..

Well, I'm definitely more confident of beating SA than Aus...

quinsforever wrote:Jeezus guess it's all burgess's fault again. If wilko said that he's officially an idiot. Burgess player 10 minutes. Farrell, barritt and no fetcher is what lost England this game. Not no facing burgess.

And Australia were good. No mistakes, took their chances, turned over amazingly.

I don't think anyone has blamed Burgess but rather the coaching staff for both rushing him and then playing in him in the centre when it was shown in a Bath shirt he wasn't good enough there.

wales606 wrote:

Griff wrote:

wales606 wrote:This world cup has shown that the old scrum coaches from when the 'hit' was key are largely obsolete.

Australia could well have the best scrum out there at the moment.

But Ledesma, Aus scrum coach and ex Argie, was from the heyday of 'The Hit'.

But he only recently became a scrum coach. He was part of an Argentina scrum that didn't just focus on the hit, but were technically superb. The scrum is now a lot more complicated and the old coaches haven't adapted. Ledesma is new to coaching and can teach technique

Been coaching at the top (pro) level since 2011. Not that new!

nathan wrote:When bomber was appointed it was mentioned that they were aiming for 2019 so I don't think he'll be leaving

I think he was talking about the team. SL played his part but he won't be around for when we get good - if he tried the nation would lose interest in the national side, even the RFU will see that. Let's not forget that MJ bested him, and dwarves or not, there's no way back from that.

Rugby Fan wrote:Just occurred to me that Japan have won more games at this World Cup than England, and have beaten better opposition than us.

Way to kick yourself when you're down... But I'm stealing it in case I need it .

Tom Fordyce has tweeted Chris Robshaw's match stats:

Chris Robshaw match stats: six tackles, five carries, three metres made, two passes, no turnovers

https://twitter.com/tomfordyce/status/650421396468813824

Must be one of his worst performances in any sort of match.

Have to agree about foley... About as close to perfect as it gets. Two excellent tries, didn't miss a pot at goal, and his kicking from hand was exceptional.

Huge credit to Australia, they were fantastic and Hooper and Pocock were a joy to watch

England were sadly, as expected, shambolic. .

Rugby Fan wrote:Just occurred to me that Japan have won more games at this World Cup than England, and have beaten better opposition than us.

And, after today's game, us too!!

mikey_dragon wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:So SA-Wales and Aus-Scotland it is then? Should be fun..

Well, I'm definitely more confident of beating SA than Aus...

They were very impressive against Scotland, maybe the most physical team i have ever seen. If you can stop their forwards (mighty ask) anything is possible though.

I know this is an England v Australia thread.

But i would just like to take the time too say well done Wales you are through to the quarter finals.

Lets see how far you will go now.

VinceWLB wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:So SA-Wales and Aus-Scotland it is then? Should be fun..

Well, I'm definitely more confident of beating SA than Aus...

They were very impressive against Scotland, maybe the most physical team i have ever seen. If you can stop their forwards (mighty ask) anything is possible though.

Wales gameplan seems to work best against SA and worst against Aus, so we will have a chance either way.

Griff wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Griff wrote:

wales606 wrote:This world cup has shown that the old scrum coaches from when the 'hit' was key are largely obsolete.

Australia could well have the best scrum out there at the moment.

But Ledesma, Aus scrum coach and ex Argie, was from the heyday of 'The Hit'.

But he only recently became a scrum coach. He was part of an Argentina scrum that didn't just focus on the hit, but were technically superb. The scrum is now a lot more complicated and the old coaches haven't adapted. Ledesma is new to coaching and can teach technique

Been coaching at the top (pro) level since 2011. Not that new!

A brilliant appointment Australia so badly needed. It's beginning to pay off now.
I remember 'bumping' into another Argentinian in the office lifts (State Office Bdg off Martin Pl) where I used to work in the late 80s... Topo Rodriguez. He was half as tall but twice as wide as me. I used to say "Hello Enrique" and he'd hit back with a "G'day mate"... with a fierce gleam in his eyes.

majesticimperialman wrote:I know this is an England v Australia thread.

But i would just like to take the time too say well done Wales you are through to the quarter finals.    

Lets see how far you will go now.

Yep, will switch my support to the other Home Nations and northern hemisphere guys. Bit gutted Wales have so many injuries now though, it's going to be tough for them.

HongKongCherry wrote:...England were sadly, as expected, shambolic. .

I didn't expect it. I thought, for all our shortcomings, we could still turn in a better team performance than that.

I'm disappointed that we all knew where Australia would be a threat, and where we were under pressure, but seemed to have no plan to deal with a match when that proved to be the case.

The Loaded Dog wrote:

Griff wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Griff wrote:

wales606 wrote:This world cup has shown that the old scrum coaches from when the 'hit' was key are largely obsolete.

Australia could well have the best scrum out there at the moment.

But Ledesma, Aus scrum coach and ex Argie, was from the heyday of 'The Hit'.

But he only recently became a scrum coach. He was part of an Argentina scrum that didn't just focus on the hit, but were technically superb. The scrum is now a lot more complicated and the old coaches haven't adapted. Ledesma is new to coaching and can teach technique

Been coaching at the top (pro) level since 2011. Not that new!

A brilliant appointment Australia so badly needed. It's beginning to pay off now.
I remember 'bumping' into another Argentinian in the office lifts (State Office Bdg off Martin Pl) where I used to work in the late 80s... Topo Rodriguez. He was half as tall but twice as wide as me. I used to say "Hello Enrique" and he'd hit back with a "G'day mate"... with a fierce gleam in his eyes.

Oh definitely, but he's Old School is Ledesma. Make no mistake!

Anyway guys... look on the bright side. England won the Ashes. That still hurts!

The Loaded Dog wrote:

Griff wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Griff wrote:

wales606 wrote:This world cup has shown that the old scrum coaches from when the 'hit' was key are largely obsolete.

Australia could well have the best scrum out there at the moment.

But Ledesma, Aus scrum coach and ex Argie, was from the heyday of 'The Hit'.

But he only recently became a scrum coach. He was part of an Argentina scrum that didn't just focus on the hit, but were technically superb. The scrum is now a lot more complicated and the old coaches haven't adapted. Ledesma is new to coaching and can teach technique

Been coaching at the top (pro) level since 2011. Not that new!

A brilliant appointment Australia so badly needed. It's beginning to pay off now.
I remember 'bumping' into another Argentinian in the office lifts (State Office Bdg off Martin Pl) where I used to work in the late 80s... Topo Rodriguez. He was half as tall but twice as wide as me. I used to say "Hello Enrique" and he'd hit back with a "G'day mate"... with a fierce gleam in his eyes.

Gidday and congrats LD, I had my doubts about Michael Cheka, but that team today was very well prepared for a coach at his first World Cup and in his first year of coaching at the International level.

Lucky you werent working in Martin place last year.

Anyway its a big day, What with the big game at ANZ tonight.

Yeah, congratulations LD. You'll be over the moon with the result today but most of all how the wallabies have clicked this year. Especially the forwards. Humbling England in the scrum must feel very sweet.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:

Griff wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Griff wrote:

wales606 wrote:This world cup has shown that the old scrum coaches from when the 'hit' was key are largely obsolete.

Australia could well have the best scrum out there at the moment.

But Ledesma, Aus scrum coach and ex Argie, was from the heyday of 'The Hit'.

But he only recently became a scrum coach. He was part of an Argentina scrum that didn't just focus on the hit, but were technically superb. The scrum is now a lot more complicated and the old coaches haven't adapted. Ledesma is new to coaching and can teach technique

Been coaching at the top (pro) level since 2011. Not that new!

A brilliant appointment Australia so badly needed. It's beginning to pay off now.
I remember 'bumping' into another Argentinian in the office lifts (State Office Bdg off Martin Pl) where I used to work in the late 80s... Topo Rodriguez. He was half as tall but twice as wide as me. I used to say "Hello Enrique" and he'd hit back with a "G'day mate"... with a fierce gleam in his eyes.

Gidday and congrats LD, I had my doubts about Michael Cheka, but that team today was very well prepared for a coach at his first World Cup and in his first year of coaching at the International level.

Lucky you werent working in Martin place last year.

Anyway its a big day, What with the big game at ANZ tonight.

cheers Laurie. Actually we all used to call him Topo. He loved the nickname.
Yeah, the cafe didn't exist back then but yes... basically opposite there.

Looking forward to tonight too in a way. Hoping for NQ to win their 1st deservedly but I think the Broncos will win. Going to be 35 today... so expect some warm weather in Auckland in a few days time.

And dongle. As a proud Australian you'll be stoked

Thanks ebop. All the best against Tonga. You'll need it! (l*l)

The Loaded Dog wrote:Anyway guys... look on the bright side. England won the Ashes. That still hurts!

I would have swapped the them for a win tonight.

Notch wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Knock-on was the first offence, though, or does that not matter?

Not if it's foul play. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't time now to look it up.

You are right - we checked this the other day - Farrel was both a no arms tackle and off the ball - but I agree both england players could easily have got yellow for that

I'm  strangely grateful  that Wales and Australia  have put us out of our misery early on. As a rugby fan,  Australia have earned the greatest admiration from me so for in this tournament. Oddly now I think I'll be backing them  for sheer rugby reasons.

LD, I was at ANZ last year and that day during thwe Holden cup final it was 32 degs, Im with you, NQ all the way.

Thanks for the tip, trouble is Im working Tuesday and Wednesday.

They certainly are the team that has played the best rugby, gregortree

I think Wales will beat Australia

Well well well. A year ago I had England down as favourites but they ( especially the coaches) bottled it. they lost their way over the last year being to concerned with what the opposition will do and not enough in how England will score tries. Lancaster will have to take the blame. Farrell, Barrit, wrigglesworth and no 7 are the key poor selections. England have a very exciting and attacking back 3 - why not use them?
And what has happened to the england pack? Scrums were very poor and have got worse over the last year.

Bets on Lancaster resigning? I think he might well go tomorrow

Well played Australia. Great game really impressive rugby