France v Ireland, 11 October

First topic message reminder :


FRANCE v IRELAND
11 October 2015
KO: 16:45
The Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Touch judges:Wayne Barnes (England) & Leighton Hodges (Wales)
Television match official: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

93 Played 93
55 Won 31
7 Drawn 7
31 Lost 55
1508 Points 1084

B. Recent Form

14 February 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
18 – 11 to Ireland

15 March 2014
Stade de France, Saint Denis
20 – 22 to Ireland

9 March 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
13 – 13 Draw

4 March 2012
Stade de France, Saint Denis
17 – 17 Draw

20 August 2011
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
22 – 26 to France

13 August 2011
Stade Chaban-Delmas, Bordeaux
19 – 12 to France

C. Teams

FRANCE

15 Scott Spedding, 14 Noa Nakaitaci, 13 Mathieu Bastareaud, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Brice Dulin, 10 Frederic Michalak, 9 Sebastien Tillous-Borde; 1 Eddy Ben Arous, 2 Guilhem Guirado, 3 Rabah Slimani, 4 Pascal Pape, 5 Yoann Maestri, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 7 Damien Chouly, 8 Louis Picamoles.

Replacements: 16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Nicolas Mas, 19 Alexandre Flanquart, 20 Bernard Le Roux, 21 Morgan Parra, 22 Remi Tales, 23 Alexandre Dumoulin.

IRELAND

15 Rob Kearney, 14 Tommy Bowe, 13 Keith Earls, 12 Robbie Henshaw , 11 Dave Kearney,  10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 1 Cian Healy, 2 Rory Best, 3 Mike Ross, 4 Devin Toner, 5 Paul O'Connell (c), 6 Peter O'Mahony, 7 Sean O'Brien, 8 Jamie Heaslip.

Replacements: 16 Richardt Strauss, 17 Jack McGrath, 18 Nathan White, 19 Iain Henderson, 20 Chris Henry, 21 Eoin Reddan, 22 Ian Madigan, 23 Luke Fitzgerald.

Blanko wrote:Earls has a howler and still his posse comes to defend him.  He can't handle the speed and pressure at this level.  I don't know how some of you don't see it.

No way would I put him back in there. If ever a game was reinforcement of his ability at the highest level this was it. He may be the best finisher ever. Bit not at this level

What does that say about Payne if he can't even defend against Canada?

His try tally suggests he is just better than everyone else available as a finisher.

Munchkin wrote:

Cloggie wrote:Not sure how relevant it is but I remember hearing how the ball can get really slippy in the Millenium Stadium when the roof is closed, due to condensation etc. I wonder, could this have contributed to Earls' fumble? Just rewatched this incident and the ball appears to pop up out of his hands like a bar of soap...

Actually, watching it close up, he had little to do to secure the ball, but seemed to overdo it, and lost it. I think the problem is in his head. It's a confidence issue. I do feel gutted for the guy.

It is well known that there is a huge problem in the Millenium with condensation when the roof is closed. The playing surface is really poor as well with players skidding all over the place. I couldn't believe it was so poor - I remember thinking that Doug Howlett was like Bambi on ice in the Heineken Cup final.

Well done to the boys in green. Not sure I can forgive you for inflicting France on us in Cardiff. Just waiting for World rugby to appoint Barnes as the referee.

Sin é wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cloggie wrote:Not sure how relevant it is but I remember hearing how the ball can get really slippy in the Millenium Stadium when the roof is closed, due to condensation etc. I wonder, could this have contributed to Earls' fumble? Just rewatched this incident and the ball appears to pop up out of his hands like a bar of soap...

Actually, watching it close up, he had little to do to secure the ball, but seemed to overdo it, and lost it. I think the problem is in his head. It's a confidence issue. I do feel gutted for the guy.

It is well known that there is a huge problem in the Millenium with condensation when the roof is closed. The playing surface is really poor as well with players skidding all over the place. I couldn't believe it was so poor - I remember thinking that Doug Howlett was like Bambi on ice in the Heineken Cup final.  

I know, Sin é, and to be fair that could be a factor, but it's hardly the first time. I do think it's a confidence issue. He is a very skilful player, and he should be securing those balls. It's just my view on it, and I honestly feel bad for the guy losing the ball today. That sort of thing tends to be remembered, while the good stuff not so much.

Hopefully he will get over it, and improve on what was a decent performance today.

Thanks Earls for being one of the boys that helped us win a bloody tough game against the French, when it looked like we were cooked by the double exit of Sexton and POC... (our supposed undroppables)

..oh no.............. sorry............. I'm wrong. It should have been f**k you Earls for being on the team that won and therefore denying a place (and the plaudits) to an injured player that should have been on the team instead of you had the Gods been good to us!

...what a miserable shower we have in here at times when a simple 'Thanks for the effort' isn't in their hearts after a game like that.

SecretFly wrote:Thanks Earls for being one of the boys that helped us win a bloody tough game against the French, when it looked like we were cooked by the double exit of Sexton and POC... (our supposed undroppables)

..oh no.............. sorry............. I'm wrong.  It should have been f**k you Earls for being on the team that won and therefore denying a place (and the plaudits) to an injured player that should have been on the team instead of you had the Gods been good to us!

...what a miserable shower we have in here at times when a simple 'Thanks for the effort' isn't in their hearts after a game like that.

Over on the NZH site, Justin Marshall is saying the French will toughen up New Zealand in ways the Irish would never manage...being as how Ireland have never beaten them.  Wonderful logic.
The French didn't just play badly.. they were forced off the f**king field with a fury they couldn't handle.

I love this though.  It's a time for War.  The flavour tastes nice.

Not directed at you Munch...but there have been a select few codgers that couldn't wait to stick the boot in even as the game was ongoing. (I read good bits of this thread since coming on).

An epic performance of will from a supposed rudderless side and some of our younger players and what we get is such a deep seated readiness to pounce on a guy who like the rest gave the bloody game (and it was bloody) his all.

Marshall can stick it where the sun don't shine. The French came out to beat us up, and we gave it back with interest.

It's true that NZ will probably be more wary of France though, although seeing us hammer into them, and beat them, will give them more confidence. If confidence is something the AB's need....

Sin é wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cloggie wrote:Not sure how relevant it is but I remember hearing how the ball can get really slippy in the Millenium Stadium when the roof is closed, due to condensation etc. I wonder, could this have contributed to Earls' fumble? Just rewatched this incident and the ball appears to pop up out of his hands like a bar of soap...

Actually, watching it close up, he had little to do to secure the ball, but seemed to overdo it, and lost it. I think the problem is in his head. It's a confidence issue. I do feel gutted for the guy.

It is well known that there is a huge problem in the Millenium with condensation when the roof is closed. The playing surface is really poor as well with players skidding all over the place. I couldn't believe it was so poor - I remember thinking that Doug Howlett was like Bambi on ice in the Heineken Cup final.  

Just rewatching the game now, lots of zippy passes to hands caught at speed even with the condensation, fair enough it was probably slippy, but that is not a unique occurrence for Earls. His eyes are gone to the next move sometimes.

SecretFly wrote:Thanks Earls for being one of the boys that helped us win a bloody tough game against the French, when it looked like we were cooked by the double exit of Sexton and POC... (our supposed undroppables)

..oh no.............. sorry............. I'm wrong.  It should have been f**k you Earls for being on the team that won and therefore denying a place (and the plaudits) to an injured player that should have been on the team instead of you had the Gods been good to us!

...what a miserable shower we have in here at times when a simple 'Thanks for the effort' isn't in their hearts after a game like that.

Not diminishing Earls performance, like I said very solid in defence, just saying I think he is better on the wing and the comparative complaints about Payne at 13 have been a bit unjustified and now somewhat hypocritical!

The replacements for our noble 3 did really well. Brought real fire

The ball does get slippery when the roof is closed at the Millennium Stadium. That is a mitigating factor. Watching the replay he catches it with both hands, then it just pops out like a bar of soap like someone said above. Couldn't recover it running at full speed. A mistake (which was excruciating to watch) but let's leave the public crucifixion's to the countries that have lost a match.

The coaches should just make sure he doesn't dwell on it to much. Because we need him now with Payne gone and we don't want his confidence shot. He was grand in defence which my main worry. We have to get used to the fact that we don't have a player for the ages in the 13 shirt any more whether it's Payne or Earls. But we have other strengths.

For example the scrum, which has cost us in the past. We were obliterating the French there by the end. We've lost just one lineout in the pool stage I think. So far opposition teams have struggled to get near our try line for any amount of time.

Improve the tactical kicking and the breakdown discipline and we have a decent chance of a semi final now. So we should all shut up about Payne and Earls. We have the next chapter in our World Cup rivalry with the Puma's. Nobody outside the two countries realizes how epic this game could be.

Blanko wrote:Earls has a howler and still his posse comes to defend him.  He can't handle the speed and pressure at this level.  I don't know how some of you don't see it.

No way would I put him back in there. If ever a game was reinforcement of his ability at the highest level this was it. He may be the best finisher ever. Bit not at this level

Had a howler? He had a howler of a miss but his overall game was actually quite good. After the miss, he never let his head drop and put in an excellent covering tackle to stop Spedding who looked away. His pass to SOB (which SOB dropped when he should have held it like Earls should have) was the right option in my mind as it was putting SOB into space with Dave Kearney on the overlap. Had he have taken the man on and got tackled, people would be on here screaming at him for not passing.

Many players dropped the ball last night, not just Earls (even though his was the most glaring) but his overall awareness was excellent in my mind.

I would be more concerned about the discipline within the team myself as there were lots of niggling little penalties given away for no good reason allowing France to clear their lines and remove the pressure.

It is a massive loss for all the injuries but the replacements gelled in brilliantly and made this the first real Ireland team performance I have seen for some time.

Fantastic showing from Ireland.

I would have had Madigan as man of the match. To come on with his chest stuck out a mile in his wee tight top and then slot over a penalty almost immediately says all you need to know about him. Most of us probably thought the worst when sexton went off, but Madigan was brilliant and stood up to the physicality far better than i thought.
If there is even a smidgen of doubt over Sexton's groin, they should start Madigan against Argentina.
Even before he went off, Sexton looked worried and seemed to be carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders. Madigan seems to have more confidence.


As soon as Earls dropped the ball my first thought was "try gone begging" my second was "Earls is gonna get slaughtered on 606"
There were a few spilled balls last night, SOB had one, Kearney failed to field an easy kick. It was a bad mistake but the guy is our joint top try scorer in World cup history with BOD.  Barry White (can't spell basterea...) certainly didn't have a field day against him.
Whatever anybody thinks about Earls - Joe obviously rates him and we should get behind him. And in Joe we trust. (Are you listening Matt Willliams?)

Actually, not convinced Earls would have had an easy run in to the line. The other French wing was steaming across. Earls would probably have made it, but I wonder if that put him off for a split second?

Well done the lads!!
All of them!
I suspect some of the comments which seem to be directed at Earls are actually directed at those on here who have been most vehemently supported him (and most vehemently criticised the other options) rather than at the player himself.
Forget what others have said about him and just focus on his performance yesterday. Most of it was grand. He had one horrible moment but none of us have anything to gain by harping on about it no matter what others would have done if the same error had been made by any other player. That might score some points in here but I'd rather have any lad in green scoring the points on the pitch.

I honestly thought that when Sexton went off Ireland would be screwed. But when Madigan came on Ireland seemed to up the tempo and play a lot different game.

Really did not see Ireland winning the game before the kick off. but well played to them for getting the win.

eirebilly wrote:

Blanko wrote:Earls has a howler and still his posse comes to defend him.  He can't handle the speed and pressure at this level.  I don't know how some of you don't see it.

No way would I put him back in there. If ever a game was reinforcement of his ability at the highest level this was it. He may be the best finisher ever. Bit not at this level

Had a howler? He had a howler of a miss but his overall game was actually quite good.

I thought he had a great game - defensively he was really strong and kept Basteraud quiet all game, alongside Henshaw who was colossal, my MOTM even above O'Brien - he grew 10 foot tall in the second half.

Tremendous result given the circumstances of losing Sexton and O'Connell. Henderson had a massive impact but huge credit to Madigan who had the game of his life under massive pressure.

Desperately unlucky for O'Connell, arguably the greatest Irish player of them all, if that's the end of him but with Henderson in the form he is, Toner and another world class operator Donnacha Ryan to come in, and Dan Touhy I think we will manage if POC is gone.

The leadership of Heaslip, Kearney, Best and Murray was outstanding in the second half - this is a really special group of players we have now. Unfortunate for the guys we have lost but there are some high quality players, like Trimble, who can come in and boost the squad.

Sexton is the biggest worry, although if Madigan can keep performing like that we might be even better. We'll be stretched in the backrow if SOB gets banned and POM is out. 

Hopefully we've learned from 2011 and can produce an even better performance against the Pumas.

rapidsnowman wrote:Actually, not convinced Earls would have had an easy run in to the line. The other French wing was steaming across. Earls would probably have made it, but I wonder if that put him off for a split second?

Yeah think Dulin had him covered - Bowe did well to draw the other defender so a chip ahead for Earls might have been a better option. Great to see Bowe find his timing again though, great move.

Yep.  Now is the time for patching up the wounds as much as possible, working out who is able to play (or eligible!), working out which players should come in from outside and getting them bedded down quickly.... and then working on next week with a seriousness that remembers Wales and brands the sad result of over-confidence and complacency into the players' consciences.

Good game, congrats Ireland!

Couldn't believe SOB though, he's going to miss the rest of the tournament for that. Professional players should be better than reacting to a bit of shirt-pulling.

That's the balance struck between being on passionate fire and going over the thin line into madness.
Hooper was on that edge too and crossed over as well.

He might get away with a 1 game - their is very little consistency with these things so let's wait and see.

Stupid thing to do but let's hope he can make up for it against the Wallabies

Medical update this morning

POM sounds hopeful

SOB - 1 match ban I reckon. Closed fist, but not a punch though, seems to catch him with the wrist/palm rather than the knuckle and Pape was a good impression of a dying swan.
Hope Nigel is ask to comment on the incident - he cant stand divers

At least Hooper can claim he saw Brown get his hands on the ball and ran in to try to clear out, albeit recklessly. SOB just snapped and smacked him, open hand doesn't matter. He's done. I don't think that was acting, you get hit by a fully tensed SOB in your solar plexus and try and stay on your feet.

Sad, I think Ireland are the best shot in the NH at getting a win, I'm rooting for them. Who's going to replace him?

Hooper wasn't reckless, he was plumb wild and dangerous, and it could have been a much more serious event for Brown, who has only come back from a lay off with concussion, than that hit by SOB was ever going to be for Pape.

Blanko wrote:Earls has a howler and still his posse comes to defend him.  He can't handle the speed and pressure at this level.  I don't know how some of you don't see it.

No way would I put him back in there. If ever a game was reinforcement of his ability at the highest level this was it. He may be the best finisher ever. Bit not at this level

Drivel

Lets drop Best for an over throw
Lets drop Toner for 2 dumb penalties
Lets drop Madigan for kicking out on the full
Lets drop Healy for being beaten in the first scrum
Let drop Henderson for giving away a penalty
Let drop Murray for a poor box kick
Lets drop SOB for a dumb jab

etc etc etc........................

Everybody makes the odd mistake. Overall Earls had a good game

mid_gen wrote:At least Hooper can claim he saw Brown get his hands on the ball and ran in to try to clear out, albeit recklessly. SOB just snapped and smacked him, open hand doesn't matter. He's done. I don't think that was acting, you get hit by a fully tensed SOB in your solar plexus and try and stay on your feet.

Sad, I think Ireland are the best shot in the NH at getting a win, I'm rooting for them. Who's going to replace him?

SOB did not have his body weight behind the hit - Pape dived.
What I, or anyone else could withstand is irrelevant.

Well Henry and Murphy will come straight into the starting line up I'd imagine if SOB and POM are out. Hopefully Rhys Ruddock is fit, otherwise can see Diack and/or Conan come in.

Other option would have been Henderson at blindside but with O'Connell gone I'd think Joe will need him at lock.

Resources will be stretched if we lose POM as well as SOB and O'Connell but there is still some good quality players there to come in.

Sexton is the biggest worry for me as the quality and experience drops off quite a bit at 10.

I'd be hopeful that we can navigate the Pumas, sans Sexton, but would hope that he'd make it back if we manage to reach the last 4. Hopefully some good news will come today....

geoff999rugby wrote:Medical update this morning

POM sounds hopeful

SOB - 1 match ban I reckon. Closed fist, but not a punch though, seems to catch him with the wrist/palm rather than the knuckle and Pape was a good impression of a dying swan.
Hope Nigel is ask to comment on the incident - he cant stand divers

If that was a dive I'll eat my hat. The guy was blindsided (and that makes a huge diff), it was a punch lets not try and and pretend it wasn't. He was on the ground for about 3 mins in utter agony. Whatever the reasons for it, it was quite clinical. Thought Owens dealt with it quite badly actually. He laughed it off with Pape, if he saw the tape I think O'Brien would have got a red.

That was one very important and relieving win from Ireland. I still think there's more to come from this set of players but that win took some doing. In previous years we'd have crumbled under the pressure but at no time did those players look like crumbling. The French love the RWC and have a habit of bypassing the Kiwis so they're not done yet but we are growing in stature more and more in this tournament. Confidence and winning go together and this team oozes confidence. Nobody more than Ian Madigan yesterday.

I'd be surprised if SOB got any more than a one match ban. He was stupid, of that there's no doubt but it takes more than that to drop someone like Pape unless there's a fair amount of acting involved.

Get past Argentina - and nobody is saying that's a forgone conclusion - but one more monumental effort to do so, with seriousness of intent (just like yesterday) rather than wild undirected passion, and then we'll take our chances from there on in - as all those quarters will be rough affairs given how most of the sides have shown a readiness to play with a lot of fire in the belly.
Wales are already down to the bare bones of what they can bring in terms of players. We're now more lame than we were too. But other sides will be hoping they come through next week with a win first and then as many fit players as possible after. There are no guarantees.

geoff999rugby wrote:

mid_gen wrote:At least Hooper can claim he saw Brown get his hands on the ball and ran in to try to clear out, albeit recklessly. SOB just snapped and smacked him, open hand doesn't matter. He's done. I don't think that was acting, you get hit by a fully tensed SOB in your solar plexus and try and stay on your feet.

Sad, I think Ireland are the best shot in the NH at getting a win, I'm rooting for them. Who's going to replace him?

SOB did not have his body weight behind the hit - Pape dived.
What I, or anyone else could withstand is irrelevant.

You've never taken a hit there? It smacks the wind out of you, especially as he was blind sided and wasn't tensed prepared for it. Exactly the reaction I'd expect. Regardless of that it was clear striking. A low end offence starts at 2 weeks ban.

So now we must judge the action on the outcome ? how convenient

French/Samoan/Argentinian players does it : animal/thug who deserves a lenghty ban for putting the "game into disrepute" (ie hitting a player of a home nation), Irish player does it : just a tap on the back, Papé just should not stand on SOB way and is now a diver??

Papé was on the floor during more than one minute during which Ireland had the ball in attack , yes he's a big guy but he was clearly caught out cold and had trouble breathing. Whatever you lot (and your coach by the way) say to minimise SOB act, it is stupid and coward.
am not complaining about that and do not even wish SOB to get a big ban but am getting sick about those double standarts .

fa0019 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Medical update this morning

POM sounds hopeful

SOB - 1 match ban I reckon. Closed fist, but not a punch though, seems to catch him with the wrist/palm rather than the knuckle and Pape was a good impression of a dying swan.
Hope Nigel is ask to comment on the incident - he cant stand divers

If that was a dive I'll eat my hat. The guy was blindsided (and that makes a huge diff), it was a punch lets not try and and pretend it wasn't. He was on the ground for about 3 mins in utter agony. Whatever the reasons for it, it was quite clinical. Thought Owens dealt with it quite badly actually. He laughed it off with Pape, if he saw the tape I think O'Brien would have got a red.

So towering acting in other words?

It was a punch. In no way was it a punch that landed Pape on the ground for 3 minutes in 'agony'. If that punch did drop Pape so easily then I think O'Brien should cash in and do some moonlighting Professional boxing in America on the side - 'cause that's one helluva powerful right hand.

SecretFly wrote:
It was a punch.  In no way was it a punch that landed Pape on the ground for 3 minutes in 'agony'.  If that punch did drop Pape so easily then I think O'Brien should cash in and do some moonlighting Professional boxing in America on the side - 'cause that's one helluva powerful right hand.

You really need to take a surprise smack to the solar plexus

I was just joshing about with mates and caught my friend there once and was horrified I put him on the deck for 5 minutes, gasping for breath. It doesn't have to be that hard.

whocares wrote:

French/Samoan/Argentinian players does it : animal/thug who deserves a lenghty ban for putting the "game into disrepute" (ie hitting a player of a home nation)

Point out where that's been said, whocares? Punch ups occur all through rugby history... ie, punches landed on unsuspecting players. So lets talk hypocrisy then because it seems a punch up in a hot headed melee, where one player takes the opportunity of a crowd to land a sweet one is often laughed off as just a bit of fisticuffs in a heated game.

It was a Punch.

Had it the power to drop Pape for the length he was down? I say no.

Should he be cited? Yes.

Should he get a match ban like Hooper? Yes.

Do I selfishly hope he doesn't? Yes.

SecretFly wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Medical update this morning

POM sounds hopeful

SOB - 1 match ban I reckon. Closed fist, but not a punch though, seems to catch him with the wrist/palm rather than the knuckle and Pape was a good impression of a dying swan.
Hope Nigel is ask to comment on the incident - he cant stand divers

If that was a dive I'll eat my hat. The guy was blindsided (and that makes a huge diff), it was a punch lets not try and and pretend it wasn't. He was on the ground for about 3 mins in utter agony. Whatever the reasons for it, it was quite clinical. Thought Owens dealt with it quite badly actually. He laughed it off with Pape, if he saw the tape I think O'Brien would have got a red.

So towering acting in other words?

It was a punch.  In no way was it a punch that landed Pape on the ground for 3 minutes in 'agony'.  If that punch did drop Pape so easily then I think O'Brien should cash in and do some moonlighting Professional boxing in America on the side - 'cause that's one helluva powerful right hand.

yeah and in similar way Papé should look at being a MMA coach for his sublime skills when he kneed Heaslip earlier this year...

I can't believe there are people on this thread making excuses for SOB's actions. It was a cheap shot, and deserves a 1-2 week ban.

SecretFly wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Medical update this morning

POM sounds hopeful

SOB - 1 match ban I reckon. Closed fist, but not a punch though, seems to catch him with the wrist/palm rather than the knuckle and Pape was a good impression of a dying swan.
Hope Nigel is ask to comment on the incident - he cant stand divers

If that was a dive I'll eat my hat. The guy was blindsided (and that makes a huge diff), it was a punch lets not try and and pretend it wasn't. He was on the ground for about 3 mins in utter agony. Whatever the reasons for it, it was quite clinical. Thought Owens dealt with it quite badly actually. He laughed it off with Pape, if he saw the tape I think O'Brien would have got a red.

So towering acting in other words?

It was a punch.  In no way was it a punch that landed Pape on the ground for 3 minutes in 'agony'.  If that punch did drop Pape so easily then I think O'Brien should cash in and do some moonlighting Professional boxing in America on the side - 'cause that's one helluva powerful right hand.

Diff is fly was that he was blindsided. He was unprepared to take the hit. Your body can absorb hits far easier if you see it. Those types of punches knocks the wind out of you. O'Brien  is a big 17st guy known for his strength. Pro boxing is not automatically just about how hard you can hit, its also about how hard you can get hit and stay in the game.

Question, he was off for about 1 mins of actual fields play where Ireland were attacking.. Why would a player allow his team to go down to 14 men if he was simply faking it for that length of time. Pape isn't a mug. Lets not try and pretend he was faking it. If he did that, he should be dropped by France and never to play again. That would be disgraceful in letting his side down. I just don't buy it.

maybe pape is just a big girls blouse???

SecretFly wrote:

whocares wrote:

French/Samoan/Argentinian players does it : animal/thug who deserves a lenghty ban for putting the "game into disrepute" (ie hitting a player of a home nation)  

Point out where that's been said, whocares?  Punch ups occur all through rugby history... ie, punches landed on unsuspecting players.  So lets talk hypocrisy then because it seems a punch up in a hot headed melee, where one player takes the opportunity of a crowd to land a sweet one is often laughed off as just a bit of fisticuffs in a heated game.  

It was a Punch.

Had it the power to drop Pape for the length he was down? I say no.

Should he be cited?  Yes.

Should he get a match ban like Hooper?  Yes.

Do I selfishly hope he doesn't?  Yes.

oh it hasnt been said on this thread SF. do not worry about that. but during my time on this board (and the old one) I am sure this came accross a few times - you know its a reputation thing.
at the end of the day you are right , it's just a punch nothing more, happens all the time but do not try to minimise SOB supreme boxing skills , maybe it could land him a fight or two againt SBW when the world cup is over

whocares wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Medical update this morning

POM sounds hopeful

SOB - 1 match ban I reckon. Closed fist, but not a punch though, seems to catch him with the wrist/palm rather than the knuckle and Pape was a good impression of a dying swan.
Hope Nigel is ask to comment on the incident - he cant stand divers

If that was a dive I'll eat my hat. The guy was blindsided (and that makes a huge diff), it was a punch lets not try and and pretend it wasn't. He was on the ground for about 3 mins in utter agony. Whatever the reasons for it, it was quite clinical. Thought Owens dealt with it quite badly actually. He laughed it off with Pape, if he saw the tape I think O'Brien would have got a red.

So towering acting in other words?

It was a punch.  In no way was it a punch that landed Pape on the ground for 3 minutes in 'agony'.  If that punch did drop Pape so easily then I think O'Brien should cash in and do some moonlighting Professional boxing in America on the side - 'cause that's one helluva powerful right hand.

yeah and in similar way Papé should look at being a MMA coach for his sublime skills when he kneed Heaslip earlier this year...  

Oh this is a t-i-t for tat debate?  Oh why didn't you make that clear, who

Okay...t-i-t for tat.  Pape knees Heaslip (t-i-t).  O'Brien punches Pape (tat).

Yeah.  All's right with the world again.  Let's move on folks

mid_gen wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
It was a punch.  In no way was it a punch that landed Pape on the ground for 3 minutes in 'agony'.  If that punch did drop Pape so easily then I think O'Brien should cash in and do some moonlighting Professional boxing in America on the side - 'cause that's one helluva powerful right hand.

You really need to take a surprise smack to the solar plexus

I was just joshing about with mates and caught my friend there once and was horrified I put him on the deck for 5 minutes, gasping for breath. It doesn't have to be that hard.

whocares wrote:So now we must judge the action on the outcome ? how convenient

Whocares is right on this one. It's bad form for us Irish supporters to be making out that a player who clearly got decked is the one to blame. O'Brien is the feckin eejit and culprit here. Noone else. (And my extended family lives in Tullow.) He had little or no reason to do what he did. He was also extremely lucky he didn't get a red and thereby miss most of the French match too... and that may be taken into account when they decide his punishment.

If he somehow manages to get away with a 1-week ban then I admit I'll be secretly relieved... but I can't say that he doesn't deserve what he gets one way or another.

mid_gen wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
It was a punch.  In no way was it a punch that landed Pape on the ground for 3 minutes in 'agony'.  If that punch did drop Pape so easily then I think O'Brien should cash in and do some moonlighting Professional boxing in America on the side - 'cause that's one helluva powerful right hand.

You really need to take a surprise smack to the solar plexus

I was just joshing about with mates and caught my friend there once and was horrified I put him on the deck for 5 minutes, gasping for breath. It doesn't have to be that hard.

I agree. I don't think Pape dived, I think he was genuinely winded and SOB will be in big trouble.

I think he might get a 3 match ban and then reduced on a previous clean record to 1-2 games going by how Hooper's went but who knows....

What might stand to SOB is that he wasn't looking at Pape when he lashed out.

POM confirmed out for the rest of the tournament

cakeordeath wrote: It was a cheap shot, and deserves a 1-2 week ban.

??

Yes?

It was a cheap shot and deserves a week. Agreed.
Our prospective opposition will of course be hoping it's two or three.

Now back to hypocrisy because it's on record that when Pape's incident happened with Heaslip, this place had ample mouths claiming he acted his socks off and that Pape didn't even connect with his bloody back.

We remember those comments? In the game itself...seconds after it happened. Heaslip acting up to put brave Pape off the field.

T-i-t for Tat is the way of 606. All hail 606.

So much for my sources