France v Ireland, 11 October

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FRANCE v IRELAND
11 October 2015
KO: 16:45
The Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Touch judges:Wayne Barnes (England) & Leighton Hodges (Wales)
Television match official: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

93 Played 93
55 Won 31
7 Drawn 7
31 Lost 55
1508 Points 1084

B. Recent Form

14 February 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
18 – 11 to Ireland

15 March 2014
Stade de France, Saint Denis
20 – 22 to Ireland

9 March 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
13 – 13 Draw

4 March 2012
Stade de France, Saint Denis
17 – 17 Draw

20 August 2011
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
22 – 26 to France

13 August 2011
Stade Chaban-Delmas, Bordeaux
19 – 12 to France

C. Teams

FRANCE

15 Scott Spedding, 14 Noa Nakaitaci, 13 Mathieu Bastareaud, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Brice Dulin, 10 Frederic Michalak, 9 Sebastien Tillous-Borde; 1 Eddy Ben Arous, 2 Guilhem Guirado, 3 Rabah Slimani, 4 Pascal Pape, 5 Yoann Maestri, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 7 Damien Chouly, 8 Louis Picamoles.

Replacements: 16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Nicolas Mas, 19 Alexandre Flanquart, 20 Bernard Le Roux, 21 Morgan Parra, 22 Remi Tales, 23 Alexandre Dumoulin.

IRELAND

15 Rob Kearney, 14 Tommy Bowe, 13 Keith Earls, 12 Robbie Henshaw , 11 Dave Kearney,  10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 1 Cian Healy, 2 Rory Best, 3 Mike Ross, 4 Devin Toner, 5 Paul O'Connell (c), 6 Peter O'Mahony, 7 Sean O'Brien, 8 Jamie Heaslip.

Replacements: 16 Richardt Strauss, 17 Jack McGrath, 18 Nathan White, 19 Iain Henderson, 20 Chris Henry, 21 Eoin Reddan, 22 Ian Madigan, 23 Luke Fitzgerald.

That was a team performance I had been wanting to see from Ireland for a long time. Everyone gave their all and the replacements gelled in seamlessly. Gutted for POC and POM as both looked very serious. Not sure about Sexton but his body language when leaving the field looked like he knew there was something serious.

SOB will get at least a match ban for the punch, such a needless stupid thing to do.

Still really amazed by Earls' drop to bomb a certain try but for the rest, I thought he played well. Should keep his starting position for Argentina.

Henderson was again simply outstanding, what a player he is becoming.

brennomac wrote:Thought young Henshaw was immense, made Fofana look like a novice.

So bleeding oroud

Henshaw did look very good, but don't forget that unlike Fofana he was getting ball going forward and his co-centre wasn't a prop!

mikey_dragon wrote:

Exiled Gael wrote:People were taking about the bravery of Wales against England and Australia yesterday. That was powderpuff stuff in comparison to Ireland today

Jeez the occasional win against the worst France team of the professional era can go to some people's heads... Aus have probably been the 'bravest' and are the form team, they showed that yesterday. But once again, that was a very good win for Ireland.

I am just being a mischief maker here but I think Ireland would have overcome a 13 man Oz team, no matter how brave you think the Ozzies were. You can only try to beat what is in front of you

Just back from watching the game. Fantastic result from Ireland, if I'm honest at half--time I thought we were cooked with Sexton off, but some great performances out there. Onward to Argetina, thoughts here:

1) Madigan had a very stong game when he came on. One kick out on the full and one crazy pass, but rest of the time his territorial kicking was good, and his passing was crisp and positive. Dare I say when Sexton went off, we played more through the hands than I think we would have.

2) Injury losses could be telling in the knockout rounds. In this we may have lost Sexton, POC, POM, SOB and Healy limped off as well. Add that to Payne missing and it could be too much for the squad

3) Henderson was an aboslute beast when he came on. Horrible to see POC go off for what could be his last performance in green  (really hope not), but his heir apparent was immense coming on. At one point he picked up a French maul and dropped it 20 metres back from where it started.

4) SOB had his first fantastic game in a really long time. but his punch will cost him a place in the finals. Stupid thing to do. Henry is an able replacement, but if he is ruled out I'd drop him and bring in a replacent.

5) Henshaw was brilliant and a leader beyond his years. He made the breaks on the outside that Earls should have been making. Great tackling, passing and lines

6) Lets put the Earls at 13 debate to bed. His tackling and defence and rucking was fine, but he was even less creative than Payne, and that missed pass would be unseen in any other Tier 1 team. He also tried to hit SOB in the face with a pass that should have been in the bread-basket. Ireland looked stronger with Fitz and Henshaw together.

To be honest i am still in shock at that performence. Didn't see it coming after the first 3 games. Firstly 1-23 performed admirably. Standouts SOB, Madigan, Henderson and henshaw, and that is being unfair to both wingers and Best. Great performance all around. Would imagine we will be missing Sexton, POC,POM and SOB at the very least for the Argies. Earls looked to have problems with his left?? arm early in the second half. Not sure if that was why he came off.

Looks like we will be replacing 3 players on Tuesday/Wednesday with Payne definately gone and POM and POC looking pretty back given how they came off. Not sure who the replacements will be yet

Marshes wrote:Just back from watching the game. Fantastic result from Ireland, if I'm honest at half--time I thought we were cooked with Sexton off, but some great performances out there. Onward to Argetina, thoughts here:

1) Madigan had a very stong game when he came on. One kick out on the full and one crazy pass, but rest of the time his territorial kicking was good, and his passing was crisp and positive. Dare I say when Sexton went off, we played more through the hands than I think we would have.

2) Injury losses could be telling in the knockout rounds. In this we may have lost Sexton, POC, POM, SOB and Healy limped off as well. Add that to Payne missing and it could be too much for the squad

3) Henderson was an aboslute beast when he came on. Horrible to see POC go off for what could be his last performance in green  (really hope not), but his heir apparent was immense coming on. At one point he picked up a French maul and dropped it 20 metres back from where it started.

4) SOB had his first fantastic game in a really long time. but his punch will cost him a place in the finals. Stupid thing to do. Henry is an able replacement, but if he is ruled out I'd drop him and bring in a replacent.

5) Henshaw was brilliant and a leader beyond his years. He made the breaks on the outside that Earls should have been making. Great tackling, passing and lines

6) Lets put the Earls at 13 debate to bed. His tackling and defence and rucking was fine, but he was even less creative than Payne, and that missed pass would be unseen in any other Tier 1 team. He also tried to hit SOB in the face with a pass that should have been in the bread-basket. Ireland looked stronger with Fitz and Henshaw together.

Talking bollix as per usual. The fumble was bad but overall he played well. Henshaw was immense and cant take your comment concerning Fitz seriously.

The injuries and probable ban for SOB look bad as the next players up are not of the same standard. Henderson excepted...

Wooooooooo.

Great win.

Pretty sloshed, just watching ROI(just for you ME )

Hope Sexton injury not to serious, as POC, thought Madigan and Henderson did well.

Great result.

Although Argentina will be very tough.

Griff wrote:Well done Ireland. Impressive stuff.

However, I feel I must also add that I was a tad disappointed with France. Taking nothing away from Ireland. They didn't let France into the game. But France, fancied by some as an outside bet, and seen as playing the best out of the NH teams before today, just didn't look good at all. Even though history suggests otherwise, this France team will not worry the All Blacks next week IMO.

Have no idea why, there has been no evidence France would be any good. France have been pretty poor since 2011 final, and were poor before that also. They do have some very talented players but for whatever reason are a bit of a shambles of a side(a shame as a fully firing France is a thing of beauty in rugby). Having said that, Im not saying I wouldnt be sweating slightly if I was a NZ fan.

Excellent victory for Ireland, congrats guys. Shame about the injuries-loss of experience/leadership may be critical in what is to come. SOB, what the hell was that? I want to see a proper replay as surely the French player was putting his fingers up his bum or something??!!

A small bit of criticism for Earls is justified. He may be touted as a great finisher, but when it really mattered most he dropped it. That's also not the first time that's happened this tournament- vs Canada he botched another great chance with a drop. He did exactly the same thing to drop it against Canada too- was looking at the defence rather than focusing on the catch.

You're right it wasnt great but overall we didnt miss Payne at all and while I had my doubts about Earls in the centre for this game I thought he was very good overall and is a more rounded player than Payne...

Earls defended reasonably well and made a good covering tackle on Spedding. Overall though he blew his opportunity to make the shirt his own. He offered nothing in attack which was most disappointing considering the barnstorming match Henshaw had inside him. To say he was very good and more rounded than Payne is frankly incredulous and not credible whatsoever after today's match.

ME-109 wrote:
Talking bollix as per usual. The fumble was bad but overall he played well. Henshaw was immense and cant take your comment concerning Fitz seriously.

The injuries and probable ban for SOB look bad as the next players up are not of the same standard. Henderson excepted...

Whos talking ballix now? Henry came in for POM and filled in for SOB in the past to a level that neither were missed, losing both though could be a problem

You dismissed Marshes criticism of Earls yet it was accurate, he managed to fumble the ball when it was easier to catch it and did throw a poor pass when again it was easier to put it in the bread basket. His problem is he gets ahead of himself at times rather than making sure the ball goes where it needs to go first

Henry did well when he came on but POM was superb. Only SOB and Best were better.

Earls deserves another chance against Argentina. Anyone can play below their best, but the mark of a good player is to bounce back. Earls can be a match winner next time out. Fingers crossed he is ok.

Exiled Gael wrote:

Earls deserves another chance against Argentina.

Why? On the basis of what?

Henderson, Henry and Heaslip as the back row against Argentina please. I have been wanting to see them together for a while anyway.

I am convinced Murphy will start though.

Id play Earls against Argentina too, even against the ABs they tried to play a bit and if the game opens up he is dangerous but after that Id worry

From the warm ups through to the tournament he keeps fumbling or knocking on at least once in a game and doesn't seem to be as effective when the game slows down a bit

kunu wrote:A small bit of criticism for Earls is justified. He may be touted as a great finisher, but when it really mattered most he dropped it. That's also not the first time that's happened this tournament- vs Canada he botched another great chance with a drop. He did exactly the same thing to drop it against Canada too- was looking at the defence rather than focusing on the catch.

It's obvious to an objective observer that Earls isn't a 13, but he's had enough criticism, and considering the alternatives are running out he is almost the last man standing so deserves all the support he can get - judging by the way he went off he may not even be the last man standing!

Artful_Dodger, just my opinion. He has had a good World Cup generally but did not do himself any favours today. I would pick him again and give the chance to redeem himself. Of course there is a very good argument to be made to drop him but I would be minded to give him another shot. As I said he defended pretty well and made a couple of good covering tackles. The dropped pass was horrific, no way getting around it. In close matches you lose matches with errors like that. He went into himself as well after that and made some very conservative choices in his distribution. But that dreadful dropped pass aside, did he actually make any outright errors? I don't think so.

Ireland actually were very inaccurate and sloppy and gave away a number of really stupid penalties. Murray's kicking was off as well and some players, like Henshaw for instance, made some poor choices in trying grubbed kicks when they weren't on. Plenty of things to work on for next week.

I can't believe that people are still harping on the Earls stuff. Sure he fecked up that one chance and he's not a first-choice international 13. But we don't have one... and he's the type of player who gets himself in those positions and can create them as well. That's the one reason why I still feel a little bit excited with him at 13 in place of Payne. Im a Fitz fan... but it seems bonkers to be playing him up for such an innocuous short performance. Earls got tonnes of stuff about him not being a good enough defender. Today he played a key part in completely suffocating a big-name French back-line and now he's being played up as if he's a try-choker (even though he's scored more WC tries than anyone else). Give it a rest. JS isn't going to planning every detail of every game and then for some reason sticking a weak-tackling, try-botching, choker in at 13 for no good reason!  

I always felt there was too much doom and gloom about the Italian game and the supposed French WC renaissance. But the damage from today really has worried me. It's not so much that our replacements can't make it through the Argentina challenge, but more that the game today has suddenly returned us to maybe being a much more regular shallow bench team at this WC. Those injuries mean that 2-3 years of meticulous preparation has been somewhat undone. No more massive impact substitutions from a bench bristling with power. The Argentinians are going to be just as physical as the French... and no doubt twice as determined and committed to the impact areas. What the hell do we do if we get knocks to another 2-3 top players.

When will we hear about Sexton, POM and SOB? And what are the chances for SOB... pretty obvious he's gonna get pinged... but what are the chances of a 3 game ban?

With no SOB and Healy looking really dodgy then Hendo is going to struggle to do it all on his own now that the opposition have seen what he can do. Henry will add something really good... but I struggle to see how we are going to create the same dynamism we saw today. Surely Cronin needs to be on the bench this time?

OK... slightly tipsy stream of consciousness over!

ME-109 wrote:

Marshes wrote:Just back from watching the game. Fantastic result from Ireland, if I'm honest at half--time I thought we were cooked with Sexton off, but some great performances out there. Onward to Argetina, thoughts here:

1) Madigan had a very stong game when he came on. One kick out on the full and one crazy pass, but rest of the time his territorial kicking was good, and his passing was crisp and positive. Dare I say when Sexton went off, we played more through the hands than I think we would have.

2) Injury losses could be telling in the knockout rounds. In this we may have lost Sexton, POC, POM, SOB and Healy limped off as well. Add that to Payne missing and it could be too much for the squad

3) Henderson was an aboslute beast when he came on. Horrible to see POC go off for what could be his last performance in green  (really hope not), but his heir apparent was immense coming on. At one point he picked up a French maul and dropped it 20 metres back from where it started.

4) SOB had his first fantastic game in a really long time. but his punch will cost him a place in the finals. Stupid thing to do. Henry is an able replacement, but if he is ruled out I'd drop him and bring in a replacent.

5) Henshaw was brilliant and a leader beyond his years. He made the breaks on the outside that Earls should have been making. Great tackling, passing and lines

6) Lets put the Earls at 13 debate to bed. His tackling and defence and rucking was fine, but he was even less creative than Payne, and that missed pass would be unseen in any other Tier 1 team. He also tried to hit SOB in the face with a pass that should have been in the bread-basket. Ireland looked stronger with Fitz and Henshaw together.

Talking bollix as per usual. The fumble was bad but overall he played well. Henshaw was immense and cant take your comment concerning Fitz seriously.

The injuries and probable ban for SOB look bad as the next players up are not of the same standard. Henderson excepted...

 Am I known to you as someone who frequently talks Bollix ME? Didn't know I had a reputation yet! Well 5 out of 6 points didn't earn you ire so that's not bad

Your colours regarding Earls are well nailed to the mast so no point debating it with you. Suffice to say that despite his solid defence and some nice touches he butchered two very positive situations, one a certain try, and the breaks made in his channel came from the man with 12 on his back. I'm a huge fan of Earls on the wings and thought he was fine last week, but he is wasted at 13. I'm not sure if it was you has giving repeated guff about Payne at 13, but some posters here would have hung him out for some of the things Earls did.

Exiled Gael wrote:Artful_Dodger, just my opinion. He has had a good World Cup generally but did not do himself any favours today. I would pick him again and give the chance to redeem himself. Of course there is a very good argument to be made to drop him but I would be minded to give him another shot. As I said he defended pretty well and made a couple of good covering tackles. The dropped pass was horrific, no way getting around it. In close matches you lose matches with errors like that. He went into himself as well after that and made some very conservative choices in his distribution. But that dreadful dropped pass aside, did he actually make any outright errors? I don't think so.

Ireland actually were very inaccurate and sloppy and gave away a number of really stupid penalties. Murray's kicking was off as well and some players, like Henshaw for instance, made some poor choices in trying grubbed kicks when they weren't on. Plenty of things to work on for next week.

Actually for all my praise of Henshaw, he did this twice I think and both were headless panicky kicks because we were going through a lot of phases. As you say definitely something to work on

Marshes, I thought Henshaw was brilliant today. His best game in green without a doubt. He really stepped up and looked like the senior player alongside Earls and Madigan. Minor errors to be worked on though.

I think Earls had a fine game today, bar the expected fumble and resultant, if temporary, effect it had on his game.

SOB is getting much praise, yet the muppet could have been sent off at the start of the game, meaning that we would have likely lost that match. As it stands, he will likely pick up at least a one week ban, and that could be the difference between winning and losing next week.
For that reason he shouldn't have been awarded man of the match. That should have went to either Best or Toner, in my opinion, although Toner needs to remind himself of what 'offside' means.

SOB is getting much praise, yet the muppet could have been sent off at the start of the game, meaning that we would have likely lost that match. As it stands, he will likely pick up at least a one week ban, and that could be the difference between winning and losing next week.

He should of got a red card for that punch. If he does not get the equivalent of a red card it will be a travesty for the game. This type of thing cannot be allowed in the game. It as to be stamped out.

majesticimperialman wrote:SOB is getting much praise, yet the muppet could have been sent off at the start of the game, meaning that we would have likely lost that match. As it stands, he will likely pick up at least a one week ban, and that could be the difference between winning and losing next week.

He should of got a red card for that punch. If he does not get the equivalent of a red card it will be a travesty for the game. This type of thing cannot be allowed in the game. It as to be stamped out.

I didn't speak highly of him as many on here have on this basis....and the fact that he gave away a couple of very silly penalties. Something quite unintelligent has crept into his game.

I thought only a punch to the face was a red card offence, surely had it been picked up it would have been a yellow at worst?

VinceWLB wrote:I thought only a punch to the face was a red card offence, surely had it been picked up it would have been a yellow at worst?

Did Pape try to pull him back as well?

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:I can't believe that people are still harping on the Earls stuff. Sure he fecked up that one chance and he's not a first-choice international 13. But we don't have one... and he's the type of player who gets himself in those positions and can create them as well. That's the one reason why I still feel a little bit excited with him at 13 in place of Payne. Im a Fitz fan... but it seems bonkers to be playing him up for such an innocuous short performance. Earls got tonnes of stuff about him not being a good enough defender. Today he played a key part in completely suffocating a big-name French back-line and now he's being played up as if he's a try-choker (even though he's scored more WC tries than anyone else). Give it a rest. JS isn't going to planning every detail of every game and then for some reason sticking a weak-tackling, try-botching, choker in at 13 for no good reason!  

I always felt there was too much doom and gloom about the Italian game and the supposed French WC renaissance. But the damage from today really has worried me. It's not so much that our replacements can't make it through the Argentina challenge, but more that the game today has suddenly returned us to maybe being a much more regular shallow bench team at this WC. Those injuries mean that 2-3 years of meticulous preparation has been somewhat undone. No more massive impact substitutions from a bench bristling with power. The Argentinians are going to be just as physical as the French... and no doubt twice as determined and committed to the impact areas. What the hell do we do if we get knocks to another 2-3 top players.

When will we hear about Sexton, POM and SOB? And what are the chances for SOB... pretty obvious he's gonna get pinged... but what are the chances of a 3 game ban?

With no SOB and Healy looking really dodgy then Hendo is going to struggle to do it all on his own now that the opposition have seen what he can do. Henry will add something really good... but I struggle to see how we are going to create the same dynamism we saw today. Surely Cronin needs to be on the bench this time?

OK... slightly tipsy stream of consciousness over!

Hey Marshes..this isn't bollix..as opposed to your post...i.e complete bollix..

VinceWLB wrote:I thought only a punch to the face was a red card offence, surely had it been picked up it would have been a yellow at worst?

I hope you're right, for purely selfish reasons. I had thought any punch punch was deemed a red card offence, but more than happy to be corrected.

marty2086 wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:I thought only a punch to the face was a red card offence, surely had it been picked up it would have been a yellow at worst?

Did Pape try to pull him back as well?

Yes but it wasn't really obvious and clearly the reaction was over the top.

So defensively weak great finisher Earls was absolutely fine in defence but butchered a try scoring chance. Shows how much we know. Hope that blooper doesn't dent his confidence to much.

I thought O'Brien had a fairly poor first 50 minutes but them came back to his best for the last half and hour. Maybe because he went to blindside when Henry came on? That punch is the stupidest thing I've seen an Irish player do since Flannery's kung fu kick on a French player in 2010. Lucky he didn't get a red, like Flannery did back then.

It would be a shame to go out at the quarters after winning all our pool games for the 2nd World Cup in a row. Hopefully we can still beat Argentina without the injured players; but not Australia. I think a final is beyond us now because of the cost this victory came at.

VinceWLB wrote:I thought only a punch to the face was a red card offence, surely had it been picked up it would have been a yellow at worst?

Sanctions make no note of where the player is struck to merit a red card.

http://www.idru.com.au/Resources/judiciary/IRB%20Regulation%2017%20Appendix%201%20-%20Recommended%20Sanctions.pdf

10.4(a) Striking another Player with a
hand, arm or fist
LE – 2 weeks
MR – 5 weeks
TE – 8+ weeks

VinceWLB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:I thought only a punch to the face was a red card offence, surely had it been picked up it would have been a yellow at worst?

Did Pape try to pull him back as well?

Yes but it wasn't really obvious and clearly the reaction was over the top.

I thought maybe Pape had a dig first going by how he runs into SOB and the reaction but like you said it was an over the top reaction

LondonTiger wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:I thought only a punch to the face was a red card offence, surely had it been picked up it would have been a yellow at worst?

Sanctions make no note of where the player is struck to merit a red card.

http://www.idru.com.au/Resources/judiciary/IRB%20Regulation%2017%20Appendix%201%20-%20Recommended%20Sanctions.pdf

10.4(a) Striking another Player with a
hand, arm or fist
LE – 2 weeks
MR – 5 weeks
TE – 8+ weeks

Thanks, still i don't think SOB offense is worse than Wood's kick to Liam Williams' face so i hope SOB can somehow get away with it too.

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/joe-schmidt-interview/312068

Joe Schmidt said after the match that the plan was to bring Henderson on at 6 in the second half. Hopefully he is open to starting him at 6 against Argentina.

Artful_Dodger wrote:http://www.balls.ie/rugby/joe-schmidt-interview/312068

Joe Schmidt said after the match that the plan was to bring Henderson on at 6 in the second half.  Hopefully he is open to starting him at 6 against Argentina.

Won't have much choice if POM is out

Let Joe make his choices.  He's working his ass off trying to give us as good a shot at this thing as possible.  

It's amazing how seamless the actual substitutions appeared to be in such a tense and fraught and incident laden game.  The French wanted us to lose our heads and down tools.  That was their gameplan - to rattle us enough that we'd implode.  But incoming players slotted in and got to work.... slotted in and got to work.  There is no miracle or luck in that.  It's hard hard preparation work over the months and through the two years of Schmidt's tenure.

Yet another 'toughest game of his career' is upon him and the players.  I wish him and us luck.  One thing is certain - the Irish have now arrived at this WC mentally.  Their blood is up.  It's now Schmidt's very important role to contain it, channel it and temper it to attention to tactics and caution.

kunu wrote:A small bit of criticism for Earls is justified. He may be touted as a great finisher, but when it really mattered most he dropped it. That's also not the first time that's happened this tournament- vs Canada he botched another great chance with a drop. He did exactly the same thing to drop it against Canada too- was looking at the defence rather than focusing on the catch.

Considering his try scoring record, if you think he isn't that great, what does it say about the rest of them?

ME-109 wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:I can't believe that people are still harping on the Earls stuff. Sure he fecked up that one chance and he's not a first-choice international 13. But we don't have one... and he's the type of player who gets himself in those positions and can create them as well. That's the one reason why I still feel a little bit excited with him at 13 in place of Payne. Im a Fitz fan... but it seems bonkers to be playing him up for such an innocuous short performance. Earls got tonnes of stuff about him not being a good enough defender. Today he played a key part in completely suffocating a big-name French back-line and now he's being played up as if he's a try-choker (even though he's scored more WC tries than anyone else). Give it a rest. JS isn't going to planning every detail of every game and then for some reason sticking a weak-tackling, try-botching, choker in at 13 for no good reason!  

I always felt there was too much doom and gloom about the Italian game and the supposed French WC renaissance. But the damage from today really has worried me. It's not so much that our replacements can't make it through the Argentina challenge, but more that the game today has suddenly returned us to maybe being a much more regular shallow bench team at this WC. Those injuries mean that 2-3 years of meticulous preparation has been somewhat undone. No more massive impact substitutions from a bench bristling with power. The Argentinians are going to be just as physical as the French... and no doubt twice as determined and committed to the impact areas. What the hell do we do if we get knocks to another 2-3 top players.

When will we hear about Sexton, POM and SOB? And what are the chances for SOB... pretty obvious he's gonna get pinged... but what are the chances of a 3 game ban?

With no SOB and Healy looking really dodgy then Hendo is going to struggle to do it all on his own now that the opposition have seen what he can do. Henry will add something really good... but I struggle to see how we are going to create the same dynamism we saw today. Surely Cronin needs to be on the bench this time?

OK... slightly tipsy stream of consciousness over!

Hey Marshes..this isn't bollix..as opposed to your post...i.e complete bollix..

Ah glad this one meets your high standards for pro-Earls articles ME. In fairness though Nos has the advantage in that he is admittedly sozzled

If Payne had of been the one to botch that chance you would've had the knives out and been the first on here Wee weeing in everyone's ear about it. That could have cost Ireland a closer game. The fact is that butchered chance and his pass to O Brien were indicative of how he can be a bit headless at times, and is much better suited to the wing. This is not a new development.

I have never said I have a problem with his defence, which I think is fine.

Marshes wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:I can't believe that people are still harping on the Earls stuff. Sure he fecked up that one chance and he's not a first-choice international 13. But we don't have one... and he's the type of player who gets himself in those positions and can create them as well. That's the one reason why I still feel a little bit excited with him at 13 in place of Payne. Im a Fitz fan... but it seems bonkers to be playing him up for such an innocuous short performance. Earls got tonnes of stuff about him not being a good enough defender. Today he played a key part in completely suffocating a big-name French back-line and now he's being played up as if he's a try-choker (even though he's scored more WC tries than anyone else). Give it a rest. JS isn't going to planning every detail of every game and then for some reason sticking a weak-tackling, try-botching, choker in at 13 for no good reason!  

I always felt there was too much doom and gloom about the Italian game and the supposed French WC renaissance. But the damage from today really has worried me. It's not so much that our replacements can't make it through the Argentina challenge, but more that the game today has suddenly returned us to maybe being a much more regular shallow bench team at this WC. Those injuries mean that 2-3 years of meticulous preparation has been somewhat undone. No more massive impact substitutions from a bench bristling with power. The Argentinians are going to be just as physical as the French... and no doubt twice as determined and committed to the impact areas. What the hell do we do if we get knocks to another 2-3 top players.

When will we hear about Sexton, POM and SOB? And what are the chances for SOB... pretty obvious he's gonna get pinged... but what are the chances of a 3 game ban?

With no SOB and Healy looking really dodgy then Hendo is going to struggle to do it all on his own now that the opposition have seen what he can do. Henry will add something really good... but I struggle to see how we are going to create the same dynamism we saw today. Surely Cronin needs to be on the bench this time?

OK... slightly tipsy stream of consciousness over!

Hey Marshes..this isn't bollix..as opposed to your post...i.e complete bollix..

Ah glad this one meets your high standards for pro-Earls articles ME. In fairness though Nos has the advantage in that he is admittedly sozzled

If Payne had of been the one to botch that chance you would've had the knives out and been the first on here Wee weeing in everyone's ear about it. That could have cost Ireland a closer game. The fact is that butchered chance and his pass to O Brien were indicative of how he can be a bit headless at times, and is much better suited to the wing. This is not a new development.

I have never said I have a problem with his defence, which I think is fine.

At least Ireland scored a couple of trys away from home today. In the 6Ns, Ireland had to secure the win by penalties. There wouldn't have been a hope in hell that Payne would be anywhere close to being able to botch it. Lets not forget it was a Payne (the great defender) who missed a tackle for Canada to score a try.

Marshes wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:I can't believe that people are still harping on the Earls stuff. Sure he fecked up that one chance and he's not a first-choice international 13. But we don't have one... and he's the type of player who gets himself in those positions and can create them as well. That's the one reason why I still feel a little bit excited with him at 13 in place of Payne. Im a Fitz fan... but it seems bonkers to be playing him up for such an innocuous short performance. Earls got tonnes of stuff about him not being a good enough defender. Today he played a key part in completely suffocating a big-name French back-line and now he's being played up as if he's a try-choker (even though he's scored more WC tries than anyone else). Give it a rest. JS isn't going to planning every detail of every game and then for some reason sticking a weak-tackling, try-botching, choker in at 13 for no good reason!  

I always felt there was too much doom and gloom about the Italian game and the supposed French WC renaissance. But the damage from today really has worried me. It's not so much that our replacements can't make it through the Argentina challenge, but more that the game today has suddenly returned us to maybe being a much more regular shallow bench team at this WC. Those injuries mean that 2-3 years of meticulous preparation has been somewhat undone. No more massive impact substitutions from a bench bristling with power. The Argentinians are going to be just as physical as the French... and no doubt twice as determined and committed to the impact areas. What the hell do we do if we get knocks to another 2-3 top players.

When will we hear about Sexton, POM and SOB? And what are the chances for SOB... pretty obvious he's gonna get pinged... but what are the chances of a 3 game ban?

With no SOB and Healy looking really dodgy then Hendo is going to struggle to do it all on his own now that the opposition have seen what he can do. Henry will add something really good... but I struggle to see how we are going to create the same dynamism we saw today. Surely Cronin needs to be on the bench this time?

OK... slightly tipsy stream of consciousness over!

Hey Marshes..this isn't bollix..as opposed to your post...i.e complete bollix..

Ah glad this one meets your high standards for pro-Earls articles ME. In fairness though Nos has the advantage in that he is admittedly sozzled

If Payne had of been the one to botch that chance you would've had the knives out and been the first on here Wee weeing in everyone's ear about it. That could have cost Ireland a closer game. The fact is that butchered chance and his pass to O Brien were indicative of how he can be a bit headless at times, and is much better suited to the wing. This is not a new development.

I have never said I have a problem with his defence, which I think is fine.

If you read back a bit my preference was for Payne to start and I dont think I have ever posted anything negative about him. Your continued rubbish (i,e Bollix) about his pass is just that...rubbish one eyed and just crass stupidity. SOB should have taken the pass similar to Earls earlier....Anyhow we dont have Payne. Earls has proven himself to be a worthy replacement and is a better overall player. You can continue to talk all the sh1te you want...just watching the reply on ITV and Geordan Murphys comment was a "simple pass catch for a net gain of 30 metres and a possible try scoring opportunity...Ireland need to take these opportunities"...presume you know better than Geordan?

Are we allowed replace O'Brien if he gets a hefty ban?

Earls is a better overall player than Payne? It what universe has he proven that at international level?! He is only better in the sense that he is currently not in a fecking moon boot. Aside from that I don't know what evidence you are basing it on. His juggling act today? Solid in defence, a bit headless in attack, better utilised on the wing. Not a hugely controversial opinion.

I don't know what that gibberish about Murphy is related to.

Not sure how relevant it is but I remember hearing how the ball can get really slippy in the Millenium Stadium when the roof is closed, due to condensation etc. I wonder, could this have contributed to Earls' fumble? Just rewatched this incident and the ball appears to pop up out of his hands like a bar of soap...

Cloggie wrote:Not sure how relevant it is but I remember hearing how the ball can get really slippy in the Millenium Stadium when the roof is closed, due to condensation etc. I wonder, could this have contributed to Earls' fumble? Just rewatched this incident and the ball appears to pop up out of his hands like a bar of soap...

No

Earls has a howler and still his posse comes to defend him. He can't handle the speed and pressure at this level. I don't know how some of you don't see it.

No way would I put him back in there. If ever a game was reinforcement of his ability at the highest level this was it. He may be the best finisher ever. Bit not at this level

Munchkin wrote:

Cloggie wrote:Not sure how relevant it is but I remember hearing how the ball can get really slippy in the Millenium Stadium when the roof is closed, due to condensation etc. I wonder, could this have contributed to Earls' fumble? Just rewatched this incident and the ball appears to pop up out of his hands like a bar of soap...

No

Have you been to a game in the Millenium with the roof closed to be so authoritive about that?

I wonder did Sexton going off force a bit of a re-think in strategy with less kicking, or did we stick much to the same plan with with Madigan in place of Sexton? Ireland seemed a lot less airborne today, and in fact it looked like it worked to Ireland's benefit..

Cloggie wrote:Not sure how relevant it is but I remember hearing how the ball can get really slippy in the Millenium Stadium when the roof is closed, due to condensation etc. I wonder, could this have contributed to Earls' fumble? Just rewatched this incident and the ball appears to pop up out of his hands like a bar of soap...

Actually, watching it close up, he had little to do to secure the ball, but seemed to overdo it, and lost it. I think the problem is in his head. It's a confidence issue. I do feel gutted for the guy.

Cloggie wrote:Not sure how relevant it is but I remember hearing how the ball can get really slippy in the Millenium Stadium when the roof is closed, due to condensation etc. I wonder, could this have contributed to Earls' fumble? Just rewatched this incident and the ball appears to pop up out of his hands like a bar of soap...

The number of French handling errors and the occasional Irish fumble from the likes of Earls, SOB, Healy etc. would definitely suggest so.