QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October

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SOUTH AFRICA v WALES

17 October 2015
16:00 BST (UTC+01)
Twickenham, London

Live on expensive telly

Ref: Wayne Barnes (England)
ARs: George Clancy (Ireland) and JP Doyle (England)
TMO: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

30 Played 30
27 Won 2
1 Drawn 1
2 Lost 27
814 Points 440

B. Recent Form

29 November 2014
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
12–6 to Wales

21 June 2014
Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
31–30 to South Africa

14 June 2014
Growthpoint Kings Park, Durban
38–16 to South Africa

9 November 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
15–24 to South Africa

11 September 2011
Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington
17–16 to South Africa

13 November 2010
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
25–29 to South Africa

5 June 2010
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
31–34 to South Africa

8 November 2008
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
15–20 to South Africa

C. TEAMS:
SOUTH AFRICA

Le Roux; Pietersen, Kriel, De Allende, Habana; Pollard, Du Preez (capt); Mtawarira, B du Plessis, Malherbe; De Jager, Etzebeth; Burger, Louw, Vermeulen.

Replacements: Strauss for Du Plessis (55), Nyakane for Tendai Mtawarira (56), J Du Plessis for Malherbe (60), Du Toit for Etzebeth (67), Alberts for Louw (67), Lambie for Pollard (76), Serfontein for Kriel (67), Pienaar (unused).


WALES

Anscombe; Cuthbert, Morgan, Roberts, North; Biggar, G Davies; Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee; Charteris, AW Jones; Lydiate, Warburton (capt), Faletau.

Replacements: Owens for Baldwin (56), James for Jenkins (55), Francis for Lee (55), Davies for Charteris (63), Tipuric for Lydiate (67), L Williams for G Davies (70), Priestland for Biggar (73), Hook for Morgan (67).

I think Wales are very much a team whose chances are made or broken by their mental belief.

Against all 6 nations sides - Wales know they can win and have proven that many a time under Gatland's watch.

That was again on display against England. Their fightback was admirable.

SH sides though are another kettle of fish entirely.

Against 13 men - Wales could still not break down Australia, the psycological mental barrier when playing the Aussies is still there.

SA might not have the same deadly effect over the Welsh that the Aussies have but they are a tri nations side.

Wales' record against tri nations sides is poor under Gatland.

I believe Wales are a good enough side to beat SA but it will be their composure that will be tested to the maximum.


As for SA, since they lost to Japan they have been stung into action, a painful loss but probably a blessing in disguise as it takes away any complacency.

Will be a very fascinating game - both sides have a lot to prove and I feel that the losing coach might be out of a job.

Biltong wrote:

offload wrote:

goneagain wrote:I have the same opinion about Wales in this match as I had last week, they have a real chance. They fronted up physically last week, defended well and pressured the Oz line. If it weren't for a lack of clarity at crucial times they would have won the game.
I think it will be a similar encounter with the result in the balance until the last few minutes.

South Africa have bounced back well after their inital upset, but like Australia have looked better than perhaps they have been in what turned out to be a pretty weak group.
Decent victory against Scotland (who rested plenty of layers?) and pretty easy wins against disappointing USA and Samoa sides.

I agree, I think too many are writing Wales off.  Wales also don't have the mental block with SA as exists against Australia.  I'm not really convinced that SA have bounced back yet.  I anticipate a close result - I think the strength of the SA bench will be the differece provided HM uses it wisely.

Wales have beaten SA twice, they have beaten Australia 10 times?

Are you suggesting that dour match in november has lifted the mental block?

Again what is it with losers? You were beaten fair and square by Wales last year and Japan last month! Accept defeat manfully. History is history and no records against another nation matter. If Wales are good enough and they are we will win. Fact that we have lost many to you matters not a jot.

munkian wrote:

I'll take another 6 point win, hell, I'll take a 3-0 win, especially if we match you in physicality like this again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuKUj-rkZ2w

  I didn't think it was a 'dour' game, either.  But I was supporting the team that won, so...  

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Biltong wrote:

offload wrote:

goneagain wrote:I have the same opinion about Wales in this match as I had last week, they have a real chance. They fronted up physically last week, defended well and pressured the Oz line. If it weren't for a lack of clarity at crucial times they would have won the game.
I think it will be a similar encounter with the result in the balance until the last few minutes.

South Africa have bounced back well after their inital upset, but like Australia have looked better than perhaps they have been in what turned out to be a pretty weak group.
Decent victory against Scotland (who rested plenty of layers?) and pretty easy wins against disappointing USA and Samoa sides.

I agree, I think too many are writing Wales off.  Wales also don't have the mental block with SA as exists against Australia.  I'm not really convinced that SA have bounced back yet.  I anticipate a close result - I think the strength of the SA bench will be the differece provided HM uses it wisely.

Wales have beaten SA twice, they have beaten Australia 10 times?

Are you suggesting that dour match in november has lifted the mental block?

Again what is it with losers?  You were beaten fair and square by Wales last year and Japan last month!  Accept defeat manfully.  History is history and no records against another nation matter.  If Wales are good enough and they are we will win.  Fact that we have lost many to you matters not a jot.

The day you start debating like a courteous adult is the day I will engage in debate with you, drop the attitude, you aren't impressing me

GavCanDance wrote:

munkian wrote:

I'll take another 6 point win, hell, I'll take a 3-0 win, especially if we match you in physicality like this again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuKUj-rkZ2w

  I didn't think it was a 'dour' game, either.  But I was supporting the team that won, so...  

I was at the game and bar the injury I enjoyed it - was a hard fought test match.

Are flat track bully games where you rack up 7 tries the only ones that interest you ?

munkian wrote:

GavCanDance wrote:

munkian wrote:

I'll take another 6 point win, hell, I'll take a 3-0 win, especially if we match you in physicality like this again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuKUj-rkZ2w

  I didn't think it was a 'dour' game, either.  But I was supporting the team that won, so...  

I was at the game and bar the injury I enjoyed it - was a hard fought test match.

Are flat track bully games where you rack up 7 tries the only ones that interest you ?

Absolutely not - I was agreeing with you buddy! I was disagreeing with Biltongs description of the match as 'dour'. I remember it as being pretty exciting and Biggar was astounding that day.

munkian wrote:

Biltong wrote:

offload wrote:

goneagain wrote:I have the same opinion about Wales in this match as I had last week, they have a real chance. They fronted up physically last week, defended well and pressured the Oz line. If it weren't for a lack of clarity at crucial times they would have won the game.
I think it will be a similar encounter with the result in the balance until the last few minutes.

South Africa have bounced back well after their inital upset, but like Australia have looked better than perhaps they have been in what turned out to be a pretty weak group.
Decent victory against Scotland (who rested plenty of layers?) and pretty easy wins against disappointing USA and Samoa sides.

I agree, I think too many are writing Wales off.  Wales also don't have the mental block with SA as exists against Australia.  I'm not really convinced that SA have bounced back yet.  I anticipate a close result - I think the strength of the SA bench will be the differece provided HM uses it wisely.

Wales have beaten SA twice, they have beaten Australia 10 times?

Are you suggesting that dour match in november has lifted the mental block?

I'll take another 6 point win, hell, I'll take a 3-0 win, especially if we match you in physicality like this again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuKUj-rkZ2w

Yeah mate, you need to take cognicance of the fact that the team that played Wales in November last year has only 5 surviving starters though.

Willie le Roux
beast Mtwarira
Bismarck du Plessis
Duane Vermeulen
Eben Etzebeth

So the physical battle for this one is going to be a little different than last outing

GavCanDance wrote:

munkian wrote:

GavCanDance wrote:

munkian wrote:

I'll take another 6 point win, hell, I'll take a 3-0 win, especially if we match you in physicality like this again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuKUj-rkZ2w

  I didn't think it was a 'dour' game, either.  But I was supporting the team that won, so...  

I was at the game and bar the injury I enjoyed it - was a hard fought test match.

Are flat track bully games where you rack up 7 tries the only ones that interest you ?

Absolutely not - I was agreeing with you buddy!     I was disagreeing with Biltongs description of the match as 'dour'.  I remember it as being pretty exciting and Biggar was astounding that day.

Sorry. was not aimed at you.

Biltong wrote:

munkian wrote:

Biltong wrote:

offload wrote:

goneagain wrote:I have the same opinion about Wales in this match as I had last week, they have a real chance. They fronted up physically last week, defended well and pressured the Oz line. If it weren't for a lack of clarity at crucial times they would have won the game.
I think it will be a similar encounter with the result in the balance until the last few minutes.

South Africa have bounced back well after their inital upset, but like Australia have looked better than perhaps they have been in what turned out to be a pretty weak group.
Decent victory against Scotland (who rested plenty of layers?) and pretty easy wins against disappointing USA and Samoa sides.

I agree, I think too many are writing Wales off.  Wales also don't have the mental block with SA as exists against Australia.  I'm not really convinced that SA have bounced back yet.  I anticipate a close result - I think the strength of the SA bench will be the differece provided HM uses it wisely.

Wales have beaten SA twice, they have beaten Australia 10 times?

Are you suggesting that dour match in november has lifted the mental block?

I'll take another 6 point win, hell, I'll take a 3-0 win, especially if we match you in physicality like this again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuKUj-rkZ2w

Yeah mate, you need to take cognicance of the fact that the team that played Wales in November last year has only 5 surviving starters though.

Willie le Roux
beast Mtwarira
Bismarck du Plessis
Duane Vermeulen
Eben Etzebeth

So the physical battle for this one is going to be a little different than last outing

We might as well not turn up then.

munkian wrote:

Biltong wrote:

munkian wrote:

Biltong wrote:

offload wrote:

goneagain wrote:I have the same opinion about Wales in this match as I had last week, they have a real chance. They fronted up physically last week, defended well and pressured the Oz line. If it weren't for a lack of clarity at crucial times they would have won the game.
I think it will be a similar encounter with the result in the balance until the last few minutes.

South Africa have bounced back well after their inital upset, but like Australia have looked better than perhaps they have been in what turned out to be a pretty weak group.
Decent victory against Scotland (who rested plenty of layers?) and pretty easy wins against disappointing USA and Samoa sides.

I agree, I think too many are writing Wales off.  Wales also don't have the mental block with SA as exists against Australia.  I'm not really convinced that SA have bounced back yet.  I anticipate a close result - I think the strength of the SA bench will be the differece provided HM uses it wisely.

Wales have beaten SA twice, they have beaten Australia 10 times?

Are you suggesting that dour match in november has lifted the mental block?

I'll take another 6 point win, hell, I'll take a 3-0 win, especially if we match you in physicality like this again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuKUj-rkZ2w

Yeah mate, you need to take cognicance of the fact that the team that played Wales in November last year has only 5 surviving starters though.

Willie le Roux
beast Mtwarira
Bismarck du Plessis
Duane Vermeulen
Eben Etzebeth

So the physical battle for this one is going to be a little different than last outing

We might as well not turn up then.

I am not saying you can't win, just saying any relevance to last November is null and void really.

Biltong wrote:

munkian wrote:

Biltong wrote:

munkian wrote:

Biltong wrote:

offload wrote:

goneagain wrote:I have the same opinion about Wales in this match as I had last week, they have a real chance. They fronted up physically last week, defended well and pressured the Oz line. If it weren't for a lack of clarity at crucial times they would have won the game.
I think it will be a similar encounter with the result in the balance until the last few minutes.

South Africa have bounced back well after their inital upset, but like Australia have looked better than perhaps they have been in what turned out to be a pretty weak group.
Decent victory against Scotland (who rested plenty of layers?) and pretty easy wins against disappointing USA and Samoa sides.

I agree, I think too many are writing Wales off.  Wales also don't have the mental block with SA as exists against Australia.  I'm not really convinced that SA have bounced back yet.  I anticipate a close result - I think the strength of the SA bench will be the differece provided HM uses it wisely.

Wales have beaten SA twice, they have beaten Australia 10 times?

Are you suggesting that dour match in november has lifted the mental block?

I'll take another 6 point win, hell, I'll take a 3-0 win, especially if we match you in physicality like this again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuKUj-rkZ2w

Yeah mate, you need to take cognicance of the fact that the team that played Wales in November last year has only 5 surviving starters though.

Willie le Roux
beast Mtwarira
Bismarck du Plessis
Duane Vermeulen
Eben Etzebeth

So the physical battle for this one is going to be a little different than last outing

We might as well not turn up then.

I am not saying you can't win, just saying any relevance to last November is null and void really.

I know - I forgot the 'wink'

I was saying that if we play like that compared to say 2013 then we'll give you a good game.

In terms of being null and void Im not so sure - Wales struggle with a mental block over some teams and having gotten the win will be a monkey off our backs.

That fecking monkey has been busy these last number of weeks!

Yeah, we have been taking away a lot of monkeys the last year, time to put them back were they belong

After a pretty boring week emotions are starting to rise, you can really tell it's gameday tomorrow. I'll be in the pub for both matches tomorrow, can't wait. Good luck fellas. (SA and Wales)

Really fancy Wales to pull this off. Wales Wales Wales ........

I think this guy must have taken some happy pills when you look at some of his player ratings.

Wales online

I'm just glad that we don't' have our previous sponsors logo across the front of our shirts as we used to as I think it would be giving the wrong message:

                     "SA BRAINS"

Biltong wrote:I think this guy must have taken some happy pills when you look at some of his player ratings.

Wales online

For which side ?

Gareth Davies is the SH of the tournament and he gets a 6 ?

WOL is awful mind you - tabloid pretending to be a serious paper.

Biltong wrote:I think this guy must have taken some happy pills when you look at some of his player ratings.

Wales online

It's not too bad Bilt....compared to what they're normally like.

I'd agree in that SA are just ahead of Wales (pack) but I'd say SA backs are much further ahead.

Wales >10

TightHEAD wrote:Wales >10

I also think they should get more than 10 points in 80 minutes

I actually don't see too much wrong with those ratings for a change - Maybe 1 more for the SA number 8 but on the whole there's nothing too drastic or biased there IMO especially if based on the RWC where both have 3/4 records - Anyone like to point out areas that they feel the rating is a bit extreme/biased - should make for a decent discussion

Hi Biltong, genuine question here. I sort of agree with the previous games meaning nothing thing but also feel when similar starting line ups come up against each other again then the previous game does have some relevance (going back to the 70s, etc. obviously doesn't!). When we played in SA last year it was a pretty close game. I'm not a fan of 'ifs' and buts', BUT (!) I feel the game was in the bag for us if it wasn't for Liam Williams' brainfart shoulder charge. If he'd only put his arms out then he would have still tackled the guy into touch. So I feel that was a game we threw away, which gives me some confidence in terms of competing with you as there were a lot of the same guys in your team then as on Saturday. Wales is a pretty similar team too. How do you feel the SA team of that game compares with the one playing tomorrow? Are the changes better or have some of those original guys lost a lot of form and been dropped?

Teams v Wales, Nelspruit 2014:

South Africa: Willie le Roux; Cornal Hendricks, JP Pietersen, Jan Serfontein, Bryan Habana; Morné Steyn, Fourie du Preez; Tendai Mtawarira, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Flip van der Merwe, Victor Matfield (capt), Francois Louw, Willem Alberts, Duane Vermeulen.

Replacements: Schalk Brits, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Coenie Oosthuizen, Lood de Jager, Schalk Burger, Ruan Pienaar, Wynand Olivier, Lwazi Mvovo.


Wales: Liam Williams (Scarlets), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), George North (Northampton Saints), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Alun Wyn Jones (Capt) (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Matthew Rees (Cardiff Blues), Paul James (Bath), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), James Hook (Perpignan), Matthew Morgan (Ospreys).

Biltong wrote:I think this guy must have taken some happy pills when you look at some of his player ratings.

Wales online

Apart from Gareth Davies, who probably deserves an 8, which of them are way off? They're not far off, unless you believe all Bok players deserve a 10...

mikey_dragon wrote:

Biltong wrote:I think this guy must have taken some happy pills when you look at some of his player ratings.

Wales online

Apart from Gareth Davies, who probably deserves an 8, which of them or way off? They're not far off, unless you believe all Bok players deserve a 10...

I don't know enough about all of the SA players to comment appropriately. But the Wales guys: Baldwin is no way an 8! Faletau a 9?! Try 7 or 8. And I'd give Warburton a 7. Gareth Davies maybe a 7 or 8 rather than 6.

I'd say:

Le Roux, Kriel, De Allende, Pollard, De Jager, Burger and most of all Vermeulen have been underrated by a point (probably 2 for Thor)

Overrated - Du Preez

So 1 point and its biased? - and SA lost to Japan with a number of those players - Fair enough, maybe a difference of opinion that's all. For me Faletau has been our stand out player of the tournament - the amount of tidying up work this guy does is immense and it often goes unseen, great strength great athlete. Same has to go for AWJ

Griff wrote:Hi Biltong, genuine question here.  I sort of agree with the previous games meaning nothing thing but also feel when similar starting line ups come up against each other again then the previous game does have some relevance (going back to the 70s, etc. obviously doesn't!).  When we played in SA last year it was a pretty close game.  I'm not a fan of 'ifs' and buts', BUT (!) I feel the game was in the bag for us if it wasn't for Liam Williams' brainfart shoulder charge.  If he'd only put his arms out then he would have still tackled the guy into touch.  So I feel that was a game we threw away, which gives me some confidence in terms of competing with you as there were a lot of the same guys in your team then as on Saturday.  Wales is a pretty similar team too.  How do you feel the SA team of that game compares with the one playing tomorrow?  Are the changes better or have some of those original guys lost a lot of form and been dropped?

Teams v Wales, Nelspruit 2014:

South Africa: Willie le Roux; Cornal Hendricks, JP Pietersen, Jan Serfontein, Bryan Habana; Morné Steyn, Fourie du Preez; Tendai Mtawarira, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Flip van der Merwe, Victor Matfield (capt), Francois Louw, Willem Alberts, Duane Vermeulen.

Replacements: Schalk Brits, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Coenie Oosthuizen, Lood de Jager, Schalk Burger, Ruan Pienaar, Wynand Olivier, Lwazi Mvovo.


Wales: Liam Williams (Scarlets), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), George North (Northampton Saints), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Alun Wyn Jones (Capt) (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Matthew Rees (Cardiff Blues), Paul James (Bath), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), James Hook (Perpignan), Matthew Morgan (Ospreys).

Griff, the past year has taught me not to rely on anything before the match is played, our performances over the last 18 months have become increasingly inconsistent.

And I am not referring to results, but rather the manner in which we played.

End of 2013 I think we were on a high in terms of how we played the game, during 2014 there was a steep decline in the intensity we brought to the table.

Compare the two matches Wales played vs SA in June. One was in total contrast to the other.

Now I suppose intensity and focus comes from both teams, I cannot just suggest a match hinges on the intensity we bring, I have to consider the intensity the opponent brings as well.

It has never been only the result for me, I much rather look at our performance, in other words are we playing to the best of our ability?

When we lose I look at why, if I think we played a brilliant game in the sense of giving it evrything we have (Like NZ in 2013 Ellispark) I can accept the loss because we are beaten by a team who performed better than us on the day.

If we lose because we played poorly I am livid, regardless of how the opponent played, because a poor performance does not deserve a victory.

I really don't care whether the opposition was great on the day or not, they beat us in one of two ways, either because they were simply better than us and we gave it our all, or they beat us and we were crap on the day.

Sorry for the long answer, but I want you to understand how I view the Springboks.

How do I feel about this upcoming match and comparing personnel, no idea, I am hoping that evryone hits form and bring intensity, I do think this is probably the best team we can field.

Will we win, who knows?

I have great admiration for Dan Lydiate in being able to play in this match, I had a very serious accident in 1995 in which I had to have a Titanium plate inserted in place of the floor of my eye socket, I know Dan hasn't had a full replacement, but for it to have settled so quickly, shows the expertise of the surgical team and the courage of both Dan and Gatland in making him available and selecting him.
I just hope the risk is NOT going to backfire on both of them.

Will we win, who knows?

Of cause you will Biltong. have faith.

Will Wales make it hard for you? You bet.

Biltong wrote:

Griff wrote:Hi Biltong, genuine question here.  I sort of agree with the previous games meaning nothing thing but also feel when similar starting line ups come up against each other again then the previous game does have some relevance (going back to the 70s, etc. obviously doesn't!).  When we played in SA last year it was a pretty close game.  I'm not a fan of 'ifs' and buts', BUT (!) I feel the game was in the bag for us if it wasn't for Liam Williams' brainfart shoulder charge.  If he'd only put his arms out then he would have still tackled the guy into touch.  So I feel that was a game we threw away, which gives me some confidence in terms of competing with you as there were a lot of the same guys in your team then as on Saturday.  Wales is a pretty similar team too.  How do you feel the SA team of that game compares with the one playing tomorrow?  Are the changes better or have some of those original guys lost a lot of form and been dropped?

Teams v Wales, Nelspruit 2014:

South Africa: Willie le Roux; Cornal Hendricks, JP Pietersen, Jan Serfontein, Bryan Habana; Morné Steyn, Fourie du Preez; Tendai Mtawarira, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Flip van der Merwe, Victor Matfield (capt), Francois Louw, Willem Alberts, Duane Vermeulen.

Replacements: Schalk Brits, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Coenie Oosthuizen, Lood de Jager, Schalk Burger, Ruan Pienaar, Wynand Olivier, Lwazi Mvovo.


Wales: Liam Williams (Scarlets), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), George North (Northampton Saints), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Alun Wyn Jones (Capt) (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Matthew Rees (Cardiff Blues), Paul James (Bath), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), James Hook (Perpignan), Matthew Morgan (Ospreys).

Griff, the past year has taught me not to rely on anything before the match is played, our performances over the last 18 months have become increasingly inconsistent.

And I am not referring to results, but rather the manner in which we played.

End of 2013 I think we were on a high in terms of how we played the game, during 2014 there was a steep decline in the intensity we brought to the table.

Compare the two matches Wales played vs SA in June. One was in total contrast to the other.

Now I suppose intensity and focus comes from both teams, I cannot just suggest a match hinges on the intensity we bring, I have to consider the intensity the opponent brings as well.

It has never been only the result for me, I much rather look at our performance, in other words are we playing to the best of our ability?

When we lose I look at why, if I think we played a brilliant game in the sense of giving it evrything we have (Like NZ in 2013 Ellispark) I can accept the loss because we are beaten by a team who performed better than us on the day.

If we lose because we played poorly I am livid, regardless of how the opponent played, because a poor performance does not deserve a victory.

I really don't care whether the opposition was great on the day or not, they beat us in one of two ways, either because they were simply better than us and we gave it our all, or they beat us and we were crap on the day.

Sorry for the long answer, but I want you to understand how I view the Springboks.

How do I feel about this upcoming match and comparing personnel, no idea, I am hoping that evryone hits form and bring intensity, I do think this is probably the best team we can field.

Will we win, who knows?

Never thought I say this but it depends what Bok side turns up on the night, normally a comment reserved for France or even Oz. unpredictability is an annoyingly good trait to have because it's hard to plan against.

Good luck biltong, one of the best weekends of rugby in years to cone with these match ups.

SecretFly wrote:News in!  The Welsh players have sacked Gatland!!!!   Oh what a weekend we have in store!!!!!

Did they meet up in a motorway service station to decide this?

Biltong wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Biltong wrote:

offload wrote:

goneagain wrote:I have the same opinion about Wales in this match as I had last week, they have a real chance. They fronted up physically last week, defended well and pressured the Oz line. If it weren't for a lack of clarity at crucial times they would have won the game.
I think it will be a similar encounter with the result in the balance until the last few minutes.

South Africa have bounced back well after their inital upset, but like Australia have looked better than perhaps they have been in what turned out to be a pretty weak group.
Decent victory against Scotland (who rested plenty of layers?) and pretty easy wins against disappointing USA and Samoa sides.

I agree, I think too many are writing Wales off.  Wales also don't have the mental block with SA as exists against Australia.  I'm not really convinced that SA have bounced back yet.  I anticipate a close result - I think the strength of the SA bench will be the differece provided HM uses it wisely.

Wales have beaten SA twice, they have beaten Australia 10 times?

Are you suggesting that dour match in november has lifted the mental block?

Again what is it with losers?  You were beaten fair and square by Wales last year and Japan last month!  Accept defeat manfully.  History is history and no records against another nation matter.  If Wales are good enough and they are we will win.  Fact that we have lost many to you matters not a jot.

The day you start debating like a courteous adult is the day I will engage in debate with you, drop the attitude, you aren't impressing me

Hahahaha the day I even want to impress you ??? never. Go one use your child like attitude and ban me.

A full strength Wales team may have gotten a win over SA but I believe that the injuries will cost them. Simply do not have the same strength in depth in the squad. Still believe that Wales will give SA one hell of a fight but come substitution time, SA should pull away.

That said, Wales under Gatland have a lot more resolve (as seen by their victory over England) and anything can happen. Good luck Wales.

Think that last bit is the important one. Guts and balls can get you far, especially when you've get decent players to go with it.

I like South Africa but I'm hoping for Wales in this one (well, hoping for a great game primarily).

The team that doesn't lose its head will win this one.....

....unless it's Wales, who seem to do better when they lose their heads and go absolutely apeschidt!
Apeschidt Wales terrifies the opposition.

..in other words...Japan Mark2 coming at the SAs today.

If Wales get into South Africa's 22 and are going nowhere - it happens quite a lot with us - I want Dan Biggar to drop a goal every chance he gets. Points win prizes. Nothing else matters but the win.

Pretty sure Gatland wold have informed Biggar to do just that Lucky. Really hoping for Wales today. Got the beers in and its now just a waiting game

Drop goals have gone out of style, but it's (relatively) easy points. This is knockout rugby now. And without wanting to jinx things, Dan Biggar's pretty handy at dropping goals.

can actually be quite an attacking tool too (the DG).

Have a team line up for a DG and it creates a lot of space in the defensive line, also very demoralising.

Lucky, what is that DG comment based on? I can only remember Biggar slotting one drop-goal and that was against England in 2013. He's missed all others which in my mind makes him the opposite of being handy at dropping goals. I scream every time he attempts one because I know it's going to bloody miss.

The boks will be polishing their boots for the DG I can assure you that. Its a tool... use it.

3 words - Jannie De Beer! Now THAT was a good use of the drop goal!

Griff wrote:3 words - Jannie De Beer! Now THAT was a good use of the drop goal!

That was all he was good at

fa why would we use it if the fly-half isn't great at dropping goals? SA haven't been known to utilise it much since both Morné and Frans Steyn fell out of favour have they? Those two guys were slotting them from everywhere when they played for SA!

Less than an hour to go, best of luck Welsh lads, truly hope you have a great game and turn the Boks over

Come on you old Welsh bas*ards!

Guys, to all you supporting Wales...

Fair play, it's great to hear support from other nations fans!

I hope for a great RWC quarter final, then a Welsh win.

Good luck to South Africa also, I very much wish you guys the best, win lose or draw I will be the first to congratulate you guys!!!

Wayne Barnes....the ready made 'the English ref' excuse for later on.