QF3: Ireland v Argentina, 18 October

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IRELAND v ARGENTINA

18 October 2015
KO: 13:00 BST (UTC+01)
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [tbc]

Ref: Jerome Garcès (France)
ARs: Romain Poite (France)and Chris Pollock (NZ)
TMO: George Ayoub (Australia)

A. Head to Head

15 Played 15
10 Won 5
0 Drawn 0
5 Lost 15
331 Points 283

B. Recent Form

14 June 2014
Estadio Monumental José Fierro, Tucumán
17 – 23 to Ireland

7 June 2014
Estadio Centenario, Resistencia
17 – 29 to Ireland

24 November 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
46 – 24 to Ireland

28 November 2010
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
29 – 9 to Ireland

22 November 2008
Croke Park, Dublin
17 – 3 to Ireland

30 September 2007
Parc des Princes, Paris, France
30 – 15 to Argentina

2 June 2007
Estadio José Amalfitani, Buenos Aires
16 – 0 to Argentina

C. TEAMS:

IRELAND


15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
11. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
6. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) captain

Replacements;
16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
17. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)
19. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster)
23. Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock/Leinster)

ARGENTINA


15. Joaquin Tuculet
14. Santiago Cordero
13. Matías Moroni
12. Juan Martín Hernández
11. Juan Imhoff
10. Nicolás Sánchez
9. Martín Landajo
1. Marcos Ayerza
2. Agustín Creevy (c)
3. Ramiro Herrera
4. Guido Petti
5. Tomás Lavanini
6. Pablo Matera
7. Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe
8. Leonardo Senatore

Replacements:
16. Julián Montoya
17. Lucas Noguera
18. Juan Pablo Orlandi
19. Matías Alemanno
20. Facundo Isa
21. Tomás Cubelli
22. Jerónimo De La Fuente
23. Lucas González Amorosino

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

JmD wrote:Dave Kearney's wing again. He may kiss his Irish jersey goodbye.

Is it really his fault though?

He got caught too far inside, just like he did for the first try.

So it comes down to Scotland being the only chance of NH pride...

JmD wrote:And another try on that wing. We have been well and truly exposed. Earls and Kearney just not good enough at this level. Ireland need to go back to the drawing board when the 6N comes around.

That won't matter. We could win a Grand Slam with this game plan and these players. But when it comes to taking on the Rugby Championship sides in a full competitive game, the level of rugby played in a Six Nations is as big as the gulf between the Pro12 and the Six Nations. We will simply never play a team this fast, skilful and accurate in the Six Nations. Six Nations is B-standard rugby in the international game.

What I love about Argentina is that they haven't kicked the ball away. They havent bought into this nonsense that in a knockout game you have to play territory. Unlucky for Ireland, the toil of catching up from 17-0 down was always going to catch up with them at the end.

Tell you what though, any team that scores four tries and puts up 40 points against this Irish team us no longer a dark horse.

eirebilly wrote:So it comes down to Scotland being the only chance of NH pride...

Don't hold your breath mate. Commiserations, gotta ask if Munchkin still feels Argentina are overhyped?

JmD wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

JmD wrote:Dave Kearney's wing again. He may kiss his Irish jersey goodbye.

Is it really his fault though?

He got caught too far inside, just like he did for the first try.

He hasn't been good, but he has had to cover a heck of a lot of ground due to his inside men.

Ireland are really Schmidt!!

Thanks for that wonderful contribution...

Could have been so much more for Ireland - even taking away the ref bottling the red card call Ireland has enough ball and enough chances to win that - just too many mistakes and bad decisions

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:So it comes down to Scotland being the only chance of NH pride...

Don't hold your breath mate. Commiserations, gotta ask if Munchkin still feels Argentina are overhyped?

Very good side. We had our chance in the game though. we lost in the first 20 with a slow start.

Hope you're satisfied, you classless prat

Gutted beyond belief. Schmidt has a lot of work to do after that. We can't just rely on a few key players.

Can Scotland go further than the rest of the 6N teams, I doubt it but wish them well.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

JmD wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

JmD wrote:Dave Kearney's wing again. He may kiss his Irish jersey goodbye.

Is it really his fault though?

He got caught too far inside, just like he did for the first try.

He hasn't been good, but he has had to cover a heck of a lot of ground due to his inside men.

He certainly hasn't been helped by the absence of Payne. Rory Best spent most of the day defending the 13 channel, and last week it was Peter O'Mahony. It doesn't say a lot about Schmidt's confidence in Earls as a defender.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:So it comes down to Scotland being the only chance of NH pride...

Don't hold your breath mate. Commiserations, gotta ask if Munchkin still feels Argentina are overhyped?

I had a feeling you wouldn't be able to keep your mouth shut after the other day. Show a bit of class please...

The real crime is that Argentina will never get a top four seeding because they're perennial wooden spoonists in The Rugby Championships

Wow. Really. I mean, just 'wow'. Huge game and Pumas absolutely clinical.

Ireland should not feel bad about that - no side can miss half of their first choice starters at this level.

That was a full strength Pumas side.

Well played Argentina, just too good for us.

We now need to restructure NH rugby because the gulf in skills and execution is huge. Defenders of our club-biased system have said New Zealand et al. have always been this good, but a few years in the Rugby Championship and look what Argentina are capable of.

We need less club games and less club influence, a test calendar that allows our teams to play together for months at a time, not weeks, and a Six Nations that takes place in warmer weather and on harder grounds.

Otherwise all the NH sides will be seeing a lot more results like this.

Well played to Argentina. All up to Scotland now... now go and do a Japan!

kingraf wrote:The real crime is that Argentina will never get a top four seeding because they're perennial wooden spoonists in The Rugby Championships

apart from this year when SA were IIRC

JmD wrote:

He certainly hasn't been helped by the absence of Payne. Rory Best spent most of the day defending the 13 channel, and last week it was Peter O'Mahony. It doesn't say a lot about Schmidt's confidence in Earls as a defender.

Earls has defended brilliantly every game, even making a good cover tackle today after a missed tackle from DK...

kingraf wrote:What I love about Argentina is that they haven't kicked the ball away. They havent bought into this nonsense that in a knockout game you have to play territory. .

Yup - contrast that to Wales.

Well played Argentina, a grueling match and a very very hard luck to Ireland

That was another fantastic game, i thought Ireland was going to come back and sneak a win when there was 3 points in it to Argentina.

You have to give full credit to Argentina the last 20 minutes was pure genius. They took there chances when they had too and it paid off for them.

Well played Argentina.

eirebilly wrote:

JmD wrote:

He certainly hasn't been helped by the absence of Payne. Rory Best spent most of the day defending the 13 channel, and last week it was Peter O'Mahony. It doesn't say a lot about Schmidt's confidence in Earls as a defender.

Earls has defended brilliantly every game, even making a good cover tackle today after a missed tackle from DK...

Not as a tackler, as a defender. He hasn't been defending the 13 channel.

I'd like you a lot more if you didn't keep cutting deep, TJ! Mind the seedings were already sorted by this year's RC so the point stands

Notch wrote:We now need to restructure NH rugby because the gulf in skills and execution is huge. Defenders of our club-biased system have said New Zealand et al. have always been this good, but a few years in the Rugby Championship and look what Argentina are capable of.

We need less club games and less club influence, a test calendar that allows our teams to play together for months at a time, not weeks, and a Six Nations that takes place in warmer weather and on harder grounds.

Otherwise all the NH sides will be seeing a lot more results like this.

I'd rather see results like this that destroy the club game, or relegate it a side show, training competition.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:So it comes down to Scotland being the only chance of NH pride...

Don't hold your breath mate. Commiserations, gotta ask if Munchkin still feels Argentina are overhyped?

I had a feeling you wouldn't be able to keep your mouth shut after the other day. Show a bit of class please...

Get over yourself Rory.

Munchkin was pretty dismissive of Argentina's chances, I'm now asking if he believes the hype while at the same time offering my commiserations...

You had a feeling I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut on a rugby discussion forum? Shocker

George Carlin wrote:Wow. Really. I mean, just 'wow'. Huge game and Pumas absolutely clinical.

Ireland should not feel bad about that - no side can miss half of their first choice starters at this level.

That was a full strength Pumas side.

Argentina were seriously good. As gutted as I am about the loss, to see their progression is just fantastic and I hope they can remain competitive in both this World Cup and in the future of the Rugby Championship.

I think Ireland should have done much better though. Every team who wants to perform at the top level needs to have a good squad as injuries are so common nowadays. I think we rely on a few players to carry the rest of the mediocre players over. Unfortunately a few of those players were unavailable and you could see the remaining leaders such as Rory Best fighting like a 1 man army.

Vamos los Pumas!!!!

Hard luck Ireland

Awk lads, that game fairly sobered me and my mates up. Gutted. The Argentinians did a real number on Schmidt and Kiss unfortunately. Madigan, Earls and Kearney all exposed. The pack ran themselves into the ground, Henry and Best went all day and didn't disgrace themselves. Totally exposed out wide by the Argentinians. Brilliantly coached and executed.

kingraf wrote:The real crime is that Argentina will never get a top four seeding because they're perennial wooden spoonists in The Rugby Championships

SA were the wooden spooners this year. Remember? Argentina came 3rd.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:So it comes down to Scotland being the only chance of NH pride...

Don't hold your breath mate. Commiserations, gotta ask if Munchkin still feels Argentina are overhyped?

I had a feeling you wouldn't be able to keep your mouth shut after the other day. Show a bit of class please...

Get over yourself Rory.

Munchkin was pretty dismissive of Argentina's chances,  I'm now asking if he believes the hype while at the same time offering my commiserations...

You had a feeling I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut on a rugby discussion forum? Shocker  

This is an extremely disappointing reaction from you. Good luck in the game later on.

kingraf wrote:What I love about Argentina is that they haven't kicked the ball away. They havent bought into this nonsense that in a knockout game you have to play territory. Unlucky for Ireland, the toil of catching up from 17-0 down was always going to catch up with them at the end.

Tell you what though, any team that scores four tries and puts up 40 points against this Irish team us no longer a dark horse.

+1

Simply played rugby the way it should be played. Outthought and outplayed Ireland today. Bitterly disappointed but credit where it is due, the Pumas were excellent

Shame we don't have any Argentinian fans on here, their fans in the crowd are always brilliant.

TJ wrote:

kingraf wrote:What I love about Argentina is that they haven't kicked the ball away. They havent bought into this nonsense that in a knockout game you have to play territory. .

Yup - contrast that to Wales.

HAHAHAHA

It is amazing how niaive some people are, and how little you guys see when watching the game.

Well said Heaslip must be hard after that

Cracking game thoroughly enjoyed by this neutral who wanted both sides to win! Argentina turning potential into results. Well deserved win.

On the "red card" could have been red but he did bind to his own player before making contact with the irishman so just enough to stop the second yellow / Red. Thats what the officials decided. Silly silly move tho and a marginal call for sure.

Well done argentina. Can I just say a big thanks to Pichot here? He has not only driven argentina forward as a player but also since stopping playing. Behind the scenes he was instrumental in getting them regular top flight competition. Well done - enjoy your beers tonight!

Message to Mike Brown...

Thats how you interview with class when gutted about being knocked out. What a guy Heaslip is.

Great game, Argentina thoroughly deserved the win. Just goes to show how weak was Pool D.

Even what was in the end a big win can hinge on tiny moments. Two spring to mind:

1) Garces and Ayoub deciding that the ruck clearout by the Argentina TH did not warrant his second YC

2) Madigan missing the chance to draw Ireland level.


Either of those go the other way and Ireland probably win.

eirebilly wrote:

JmD wrote:

He certainly hasn't been helped by the absence of Payne. Rory Best spent most of the day defending the 13 channel, and last week it was Peter O'Mahony. It doesn't say a lot about Schmidt's confidence in Earls as a defender.

Earls has defended brilliantly every game, even making a good cover tackle today after a missed tackle from DK...

There is a lot more involved in defensive systems than merely making a few good cover tackles. Positioning, timing and aggression are also key. Earls has been woefully exposed at this level and it is a real shame.

BOD is talking sense here. He says that Jared Payne would have helped hugely, he was our first key player to go.

Bad luck Ireland, Argentina though looked fantastic. Clearly, the gulf between NH and SH is pretty vast. Or at the very least, all bar SA have progressed quite significantly compared to the NH. Bit depressing, we all need a rethink

Very, very bad weekend for NH rugby.

Exiled Gael wrote:Awk lads, that game fairly sobered me and my mates up. Gutted. The Argentinians did a real number on Schmidt and Kiss unfortunately. Madigan, Earls and Kearney all exposed. The pack ran themselves into the ground, Henry and Best went all day and didn't disgrace themselves. Totally exposed out wide by the Argentinians. Brilliantly coached and executed.

Disappointed in this Gael, I was expecting a real drunken rant . Hope you had a great time though, looked like a massive atmosphere there with both sets of fans having a great time.

Memo to the Welsh

England and English players don't have to be brought into everything

Notch wrote:We now need to restructure NH rugby because the gulf in skills and execution is huge. Defenders of our club-biased system have said New Zealand et al. have always been this good, but a few years in the Rugby Championship and look what Argentina are capable of.

We need less club games and less club influence, a test calendar that allows our teams to play together for months at a time, not weeks, and a Six Nations that takes place in warmer weather and on harder grounds.

Otherwise all the NH sides will be seeing a lot more results like this.

I agree Notch but I will add less club games but better club games as well (at least in France). The different in pace is getting too obvious!
Look at argentina, few years ago they created I think 9 top academies to develop young players all at the service of the national team and they dont even have a proper domestic competition (but do they need one with one team in super rugby?). Their players, individually speaking, are not all worldclass but boy do they play as a team and progress quickly. Guys like tuculet and sanchez were nobodies in France 2 years ago and look at them now.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:So it comes down to Scotland being the only chance of NH pride...

Don't hold your breath mate. Commiserations, gotta ask if Munchkin still feels Argentina are overhyped?

I had a feeling you wouldn't be able to keep your mouth shut after the other day. Show a bit of class please...

Get over yourself Rory.

Munchkin was pretty dismissive of Argentina's chances,  I'm now asking if he believes the hype while at the same time offering my commiserations...

You had a feeling I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut on a rugby discussion forum? Shocker  

This is an extremely disappointing reaction from you. Good luck in the game later on.

I'm a Scottish and Edinburgh rugby fan I know all about the losing feeling mate.

Argentina were playing some good rugby in the group stages and I think they always threatened this result. I'm gutted for NH rugby because the result of the next game will be even worse than this one I'm afraid.

What impressed me about Argentina was that offloading game. They kept the ball alive brilliantly. They had too. When the ball was on the deck Ireland threatened to turn it over almost at every breakdown.

Ireland for me were out manoeuvred. You gave it your best shot. Losing POC, POM,  SOB and sexton kind of scuppered you. Again hard lines.

6N definitely took a big hit this weekend

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:So it comes down to Scotland being the only chance of NH pride...

Don't hold your breath mate. Commiserations, gotta ask if Munchkin still feels Argentina are overhyped?

I had a feeling you wouldn't be able to keep your mouth shut after the other day. Show a bit of class please...

Get over yourself Rory.

Munchkin was pretty dismissive of Argentina's chances,  I'm now asking if he believes the hype while at the same time offering my commiserations...

You had a feeling I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut on a rugby discussion forum? Shocker  

I was never dismissive of Argentina's chances. You being the classless moron that you are wouldn't have the intelligence to check what I actually said at the start of that conversation, which was that we would need to have as big a game against Argentina as we did against France. I was didn't buy into the hype that was building around them. Ireland were up against it with having lost some key players. We also just came through a very punishing game with France, that would have sapped the energy levels of both sides. I think that could be a reason for the slow start, but as a tactic it backfired.

So Radge, you complete trolling @rse. Think before you drool all over a thread in one of your displays of classless wumming.

oh, and .....

Radge - nobody ever wrote off or were dismissive of Argentina. Let's leave it there.