Ireland 2016 Squad

First topic message reminder :

So what would you like to see for the 6 nations and end of season tour of South Africa? Who would you like brought in and left out? Les Kiss and POC are gone, the only definites..


Players I think should be brought in to the squad or considered:
Olding - Utility back
McCloskey - center
Garry Ringrose - center
Marmion - scrum half
Luke McGrath - scrum half
Dave O'Callaghan - blindside
Sherry - hooker
Josh Van Der Flier - openside
Dan Leavy - backrow
Jack Conan - 8
Jack O'Donoghue - 8
Cj Stander - 8
Ross Moloney - lock
Marty Moore - tighthead
Matt Healy - winger
Cathal Marsh  - outhalf
Andrew Trimble - winger

Some of the best young (except Trimble) players in Ireland to consider.

eirebilly wrote:Have to disagree with you here Sin é, I think that Sexton would make a great coach. He has great vision and awareness on the field. I think that he could help the younger 10's with their composure and help them expand their composure.

Much in the same way that I feel ROG is very good at this as well.

He has got a rotten temper that would not inspire confidence in anyone and is a poor communicator. ROG is the complete opposite to him.

I have never imagined Sexton to be a poor communicator myself, always found him very communicative. His temper, well I have more seen that as him being a perfectionist and on occasions overly hard on himself.

I still think that he would make a great coach myself Sin é.

Why do you think he would make a great coach? He screams and shouts at his team mates. BOD famously had to apologise for him and explain to the Lions that he wasn't really a bad bloke and Racing Metro seem very happy to see the back of him.

I don't think he is a bad bloke, but he seems to have a fairly fragile ego that needs a lot of nurturing - maybe a bit too self-focused to be a good coach.

Due to the reasons I mentioned before, I think that he has a great understanding and vision of the game. He may be aggressive but with time I feel that he will learn how to curb that and inspire younger players. Not all great coaches are nice guys and I think that he also has a ruthless streak in him that would leave no player in doubt of what is expected.

eirebilly wrote:Due to the reasons I mentioned before, I think that he has a great understanding and vision of the game. He may be aggressive but with time I feel that he will learn how to curb that and inspire younger players. Not all great coaches are nice guys and I think that he also has a ruthless streak in him that would leave no player in doubt of what is expected.

I don't really see his great understanding of the game. He has one or two great moments, just as he has some really poor moments. Why I think he will fail as a coach is because he is a poor communicator - everyone seems to have to tippy toe around him.

Each to their own Sin é and I am probably wrong but time well tell I guess.

Dear me, you would wonder how Ireland have actually managed to win anything at all the past few seasons, with a poor communicator at 10 and a coach who doesn't like his team scoring tries.

Sexton has been the best 10 in the NH for the last few years, maybe you could argue Biggar now, but on his day Sexton's game control is still the best. I hope he has a couple of more years to support some of the younger lads through, but i don't see him getting to the next world cup given the injury history. One more concussion could probably be it surely.

In term of coaching I think he would have plenty to offer. The type of communicaton he has now is obviously intertwined with his will to be the best he can on the pitch, it is not the same communication when you are a coach.

Please god I live to see the day McCloskey, Olding, Ringrose and Henshaw start in the same Irish back line.

Even that would cheer Sexton up surely.

Where would that leave Payne rodders?

eirebilly wrote:Where would that leave Payne rodders?

Ah now Billser I'm talking for the 2023 RWC here, Payne would be backs coach at the point I'd imagine.

rodders wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Where would that leave Payne rodders?

Ah now Billser I'm talking for the 2023 RWC here, Payne would be backs coach at the point I'd imagine.  

Jaysus, that means you imagine Sexton to be around then as well

eirebilly wrote:

rodders wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Where would that leave Payne rodders?

Ah now Billser I'm talking for the 2023 RWC here, Payne would be backs coach at the point I'd imagine.  

Jaysus, that means you imagine Sexton to be around then as well  

Form is temporary but the ability to run a loop around is permanent billser.

rodders wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

rodders wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Where would that leave Payne rodders?

Ah now Billser I'm talking for the 2023 RWC here, Payne would be backs coach at the point I'd imagine.  

Jaysus, that means you imagine Sexton to be around then as well  

Form is temporary but the ability to run a loop around is permanent billser.

If Sexton's form continues the way it is we can say goodbye to the six nations title now.

Sexton will come good, too good a player not to. If not, its Paddy Jackson

I think Keatley is going well so wouldn't be too worried.

rodders wrote:I think Keatley is going well so wouldn't be too worried.

 Sometimes I think you need professional help rodders

So what players are we likely to be missing due to injury for the Six Nations? Peter O'Mahony and Iain Henderson are major worries in the pack. However I think Rhys Ruddock is in excellent form so we probably won't miss POM as much as Henderson. The second row is going to be a little lacklustre.

Anyone in the backs? I'm not sure when Bowe or Payne return.

Both Bowe and Payne might miss out altogether Rory. To be fair, both need to prove their form and fitness to be selected as well as merely recovering. My view would be that currently injured players need to get out on the pitch and rule themselves in as opposed to us wondering whether they will be ruled out. I do think that Schmidt will definitely select Payne due to a lack of leadership in the outside backs if he is fit, but I'm not as concerned about that this Six Nations.

Is Henshaw/Payne a more proven partnership than say- McCloskey/McCloskey? Yes, but I have no problem in seeing Ireland trying to develop combinations that will bear fruit down the line and picking on form would be a good start.

I will understand if Schmidt does not do this, given the constant results pressure any Ireland coach is always under in the Six Nations. Couldn't argue with him picking the players he feels most likely to deliver for him. But easing that pressure in the short term might be best in the long term.

Notch wrote:Both Bowe and Payne might miss out altogether Rory. To be fair, both need to prove their form and fitness to be selected as well as merely recovering. My view would be that currently injured players need to get out on the pitch and rule themselves in as opposed to us wondering whether they will be ruled out. I do think that Schmidt will definitely select Payne due to a lack of leadership in the outside backs if he is fit, but I'm not as concerned about that this Six Nations.

Is Henshaw/Payne a more proven partnership than say- McCloskey/McCloskey? Yes, but I have no problem in seeing Ireland trying to develop combinations that will bear fruit down the line and picking on form would be a good start.

I will understand if Schmidt does not do this, given the constant results pressure any Ireland coach is always under in the Six Nations. Couldn't argue with him picking the players he feels most likely to deliver for him. But easing that pressure in the short term might be best in the long term.

I'd imagine most centre partnerships are more proven than McCloskey partnering himself!

Let the record show that I meant to say McCloskey/Henshaw!

But a man can dream right? A man can dream...

Lads, relax ... every man and his dog knows the team will be:-

15 Kearney
14 Kearney/Trimble
13 Henshaw
12 Fitzgerald
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip (c)
7 SOB
6 Ruddock
5 Ryan
4 Toner
3 Ross
2 Best
1 McGrath

Bench: Healy, Cronin, White, McCarthy, Henry, Reddan, Madigan, Zebo/McFadden

Although I am hoping that Sexton gets back to form, I really want to see Paddy Jackson in the Irish team getting a deserved start. On form right now, Jackson is streaks ahead of Sexton but Sexton is still the number 1.

Paddy Jackson will not start until he can prove his goal kicking is up to scratch. Either that or we find a Leigh Halfpenny in Ireland. The reality is that in high pressure games we need a high percentage kicker. Jonny Sexton will always start for that reason.

It is a shame because Jackson is an extremely good playmaker at 10 and his long passing game could be very effective.

Ah well now, I honestly don't see Jackson's kicking to be as bad as many make out. What he does bring is an excellent playmaking ability and that would more than make up for any kicking deficiencies.

I honestly feel that Sexton is the best but he is currently woefully out of form and I feel only one concussion away from retirement. Jackson is the future in my mind.

His kicking is just okay but that isn't good enough. At international level you simply cannot afford to miss your kicks and playmaking ability isn't going to make up for it. Unless you are the All Blacks of course, who can afford to miss points and just get them back later if they feel like it. It is very encouraging to see Ulster backing Paddy Jackson as our main kicker though.

Yeah Jackson will be an absolute star,I think people don't appreciate just how far ahead of the curve he is.When Sexton was his age he was only breaking through.

JJ Hanrahan is a great talent that a lot of people have high hopes for but Jackson kept him out of the Irish u20's OH spot,he was moved to 12 instead.Jackson will be an star imo and while his kicking may be unproven it definitely has potential.His conversion to win the game against Munster in Ravenhill last year was a nice cameo.I would like to see him own the kicking tee for Ulster but right now I wouldn't have any worries if he started for Ireland in the 6N's (assuming his form stays as strong as it has been the past month).

No need to rush Jackson unduly, but we should judge his placekicking in February. Lot of high-profile games coming up over Christmas and January and he'll hopefully be kicking in every one he plays in.

It's close but I'd still back Sexton to earn his shirt. He's making good decisions and executing badly. I believe he can and probably will play himself into form.

Is Paddy Jackson's place kicking that bad? I certainly don't see it as being that abysmal.

No, it's not that bad. But it's not that good either. He's certainly made lots of high pressure kicks- but he's missed a few easy ones and had a few very poor games as well.

Missed kicks always tend to stick in the memory, and when a player has one very poor night its always noticed more, so its not a surprise he's getting criticised for it. But even though most people think he's a worse kicker than he actually is, he hasn't proven he can be really dependable and consistent across several high profile games.

It's partly Ulsters fault for not trusting him to come through the patches of bad form he has had. When he's struggled, the coaches haven't been able to ignore the fact Pienaar is right there. But from an Ireland point of view they'd have been better letting him work through it, even if it cost Ulster. Sure he'd get criticised a lot but he's one of those players who can take a lot of pressure and criticism.

But now it seems he is now first choice no matter what and if he keeps up his current form from the tee then he should be considered.

Couldn't agree more.

Maybe I don't watch Ulster as much as I could but I have never really seen Jackson's kicking as being as bad as made out to be. He is not a 90% kicker but he is not far off and as I said earlier, his control and awareness more than makes up for that in my mind. Last weeks Euro game he was immense and I believe he is more than ready to be the first choice cover for Sexton (be it because of injury or form).

Just watching the Leinster game here and Jack McGrath must surely be the starting loosehead prop for Ireland now. He is better than Healy is every facet of the game. He works extremely hard in the loose, making hard yards and putting in a lot of important tackles. He is obviously the better scrummager right now as well.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Just watching the Leinster game here and Jack McGrath must surely be the starting loosehead prop for Ireland now. He is better than Healy is every facet of the game. He works extremely hard in the loose, making hard yards and putting in a lot of important tackles. He is obviously the better scrummager right now as well.

He has to be starting. Healy's ball carrying used to be a big asset for Ireland but I think now he is often trying to take too much on and ends up getting isolated or knocking on. Good option of the bench though, but even that could be challenged by Buckley (if fit) or Kilcoyne.

Since Healy has come on the scrum is now in Toulon's favour. Why take off Jack McGrath as early as that?

The way Healy is playing he should be behind Bent for Leinster too.

Golden wrote:The way Healy is playing he should be behind Bent for Leinster too.

It is a real shame, after all he was one of the best in his position, but both Cullen and Schmidt will have to prove they won't just select their mates or players living on reputation.

He isn't the only player who should be worried about his position though... but I still get the feeling a lot of these guys will be selected regardless.

Dear god I'd never thought I'd live to see the day that O'Leary is playing better than Murray and Reddan.

Rodders Irish XV

15 Henshaw
14 Trimble
13 Marshall
12 McCloskey
11 Gilroy
10 Jackson
9 O'Leary
8 Stander
6 Ruddock
7 Henry
5 Toner
4 McCarthy
3 Moore
2 Best(c)
1 McGrath

Bench: McCall, Strauss,Ross, O'Conner, VDF, Marmion, Hanaran, Fitzgerald.

Jaysus rodders, that's actually a decent team.

rodders wrote:Dear god I'd never thought I'd live to see the day that O'Leary is playing better than Murray and Reddan.

Rodders Irish XV

15 Henshaw
14 Trimble
13 Marshall
12 McCloskey
11 Gilroy
10 Jackson
9 O'Leary
8 Stander
6 Ruddock
7 Henry
5 Toner
4 McCarthy
3 Moore
2 Best(c)
1 McGrath

Bench: McCall, Strauss,Ross, O'Conner, VDF, Marmion, Hanaran, Fitzgerald.

Jesus Marmion is behind Thomas O Leary now? Apparently you just have to put on a Red or Blue jersey in Elvery's to get ahead of the Connacht lads in the pecking order!

Aside from that it's a good looking team for the future, although can't imagine the Munster fans liking it (or the Ulster management when you Bogart the whole backline during the international window!). Ryan and Earls (hopefully in his best position) I'd say will be in the 15 from Munster

It looks more like a Wolfhounds team than the starting team. There won't be close to that many changes. Expect Kearney, Earls, Sexton, Murray, Heaslip, SOB, Ryan, Ross and quite possibly Healy to start.

Are any of those names even playing well? Heaslip is doing okay but Stander offers much more of what we need - robust ball carrying.

eirebilly wrote:Jaysus rodders, that's actually a decent team.

And no Keith Earls or Zebo in sight!

rodders wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Jaysus rodders, that's actually a decent team.

And no Keith Earls or Zebo in sight!  

Or Payne

eirebilly wrote:

rodders wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Jaysus rodders, that's actually a decent team.

And no Keith Earls or Zebo in sight!  

Or Payne

Injured Billser - he's be back to captain us in the autumn

Aah rodders, we all know that POM will be the Ireland captain, perfect like for like replacement of POC.

Payne's only chance to get in the Ireland squad is to be at 15 or backup 13, he is not a starter as there are a few ahead of him and even if he does, he will stub his toe again and be out for months, he is a soccer player masquerading as a rugby player

I don't think Ireland will be without Payne this coming 6 Nations

RubyGuby wrote:I don't think Ireland will be without Payne this coming 6 Nations

You're right guru, heaven forbid that Schmidt will actually pick form players in their best positions over his favourites

RubyGuby wrote:I don't think Ireland will be without Payne this coming 6 Nations

Well I don't expect we'll see very much Biggar from Wales.

Regardless of all our agreeing's/disagreements, I wish everyone a fantastic and safe Christmas

eirebilly wrote:Regardless of all our agreeing's/disagreements, I wish everyone a fantastic and safe Christmas

Here here Billser - Have a good one all ... even Keith Earls and Wayne Barnes