Ireland 2016 Squad

by **profitius** Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

So what would you like to see for the 6 nations and end of season tour of South Africa? Who would you like brought in and left out? Les Kiss and POC are gone, the only definites..

Players I think should be brought in to the squad or considered:
Olding - Utility back
McCloskey - center
Garry Ringrose - center
Marmion - scrum half
Luke McGrath - scrum half
Dave O'Callaghan - blindside
Sherry - hooker
Josh Van Der Flier - openside
Dan Leavy - backrow
Jack Conan - 8
Jack O'Donoghue - 8
Cj Stander - 8
Ross Moloney - lock
Marty Moore - tighthead
Matt Healy - winger
Cathal Marsh - outhalf
Andrew Trimble - winger

Some of the best young (except Trimble) players in Ireland to consider.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:05 pm

I wanted to do this before and after the Irish derbies.

What I would chose as the Irish squad for the six nations

McGrath-Healy-Cronin-Loughney
Best-Cronin-Strauss
Moore-Furlong-White
Ryan-Toner-Foley-Dillane-McCarthy
Heaslip-O'Brien-Der Flyer-Stander-Henry-Ruddock

Murray-Marmion-Reddan
Sexton-Jackson-Madigan
Henshaw-Fitzgerald-McCloskey-Marshall-Ringrose
Healy-Kearney-Earls-Zebo-Kearney-Conway

by **profitius** Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:56 pm

How about Ringrose the other night. BOD thinks he should be in the Ireland squad an I would agree. Payne is a good player but Ringrose could be a great player.

by Don Alfonso Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:33 pm

He showed nowhere near enough to merit a place in the squad if others are back.

On one hand we complain that form is not rewarded. That it's not a true meritocracy. Then we suggest young hyped kids warrant a place. If he wants to feature in the international team, he needs to perform better. I watched the first stage of the 1872 cup and Michael Allen was better than Ringrose was for Leinster. Surely Garry should be outperforming Mikey Allen to merit a place?

by Guest Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:56 pm

It's Earls, it's Payne, it's Cave, it's Marshall, it's Ring a Ring of Roses....

Ah, but BOD thinks he's great. The all knowing, totally impartial, BOD has spoken, so Ringrose starting in the 6N's it is then.

But seriously.........it's Olding Very Happy

.... for the future...

by Don Alfonso Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:23 pm

HE JUST HAS SO MUCH GOSH-DARN POTENTIAL

by **profitius** Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:18 am

Don Alfonso wrote:HE JUST HAS SO MUCH GOSH-DARN POTENTIAL

Its not potential. You'll see!

by Don Alfonso Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:13 pm

profitius wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:HE JUST HAS SO MUCH GOSH-DARN POTENTIAL

Its not potential. You'll see!

Listen, he does look good. But Jonathan Davies and Jaime Roberts won't care that he's twenty. They'll just target him.

If Stuart Olding comes back playing the way he was before injury, Ringrose will be the fifth-best performing IQ centre under 25 on the island.

by **profitius** Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:09 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:
profitius wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:HE JUST HAS SO MUCH GOSH-DARN POTENTIAL

Its not potential. You'll see!

Listen, he does look good. But Jonathan Davies and Jaime Roberts won't care that he's twenty. They'll just target him.

If Stuart Olding comes back playing the way he was before injury, Ringrose will be the fifth-best performing IQ centre under 25 on the island.

I'm not saying he should be a guaranteed starter but he should be in the squad and get a game or two. I'd like to see himself, McCloskey and Marshall called in with one of Henshaw or Payne put to fullback ahead of Rob Kearney (who offers little in attack).

Earls should be kept on the wing IMO. Luke Fitzgerald is in good form too but I can take or leave him.

Having said that I don't see Schmidt making too many changes. McCloskey is a certainty to make the squad but I expect to see the same names called into the training squad this weekend.

by **Notch** Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:10 pm

I've no problem with Ringrose being in the squad, and I've no problem with him being selected- if we're going to deliberately use the Six Nations to bring through youth.

If we're not doing that then it would be a good idea to include him in training and in the wider squad to pick up the experience and I hope that happens.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:50 pm

So out of the original list of players above, who do we think will realistically feature in this year's Six Nations? For Ulster I would say:

Stuart McCloskey - He looks like he has it all; the size, the power, the distribution and even a kicking game. I think Luke Fitzgerald will get the starting shirt though, so he may not actually get his chance this year. He won't feature on the bench so he would need to be starting. Hopefully we might see him get a game at 12.

Luke Marshall - Not in the original list but he will probably be in the training squad at the very least. His recent form at 13 and the lack of Payne and possibly Earls does give him a good chance at featuring. I still think he is best at 12 though so he will need to prove at Ulster he can fight off McCloskey and Olding.

Andrew Trimble - I think he should start. He is still the most consistent winger we have and I still think he is perfectly suited for this current Irish team. He is probably the form winger in Ireland anyway as the rest haven't been that impressive.

Craig Gilroy - He hasn't been quite as good this year and for whatever reason his defence has become an issue this season, but he can still provide some much needed spark from the wing. I'm not sure how long he will be out with his current injury so may not be fit in time.

by nathan Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:49 pm

Does anyone think Gareth Steenson from Exeter will get an opportunity with Ireland?

by **Notch** Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:58 pm

No, because he's at Exeter.

I think only established internationals travelling overseas- like Sexton or Bowe, or Geordan Murphy before that- will get the IRFU to bend the rules and select them. Those who are simply too good to leave out. If you get your first cap when you're based overseas, what message does that send to players at the provinces? Not one the IRFU can afford to send. If there is an emergency, several players getting injured, maybe a player like that might get the call- but it would only happen due to exceptional circumstances.

I'll tell you what though, with Madigan turning down the chance to go to Munster the IRFU and the Munster branch would be wise to take careful note of Steenson's contract expiry date- and then make him an offer he can't refuse. The carrot of possible international rugby would be key to their offer so its best not to give that away too easily before he comes home.

by **profitius** Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:31 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:So out of the original list of players above, who do we think will realistically feature in this year's Six Nations?

McCloskey
Marmion
Sherry
Stander
Moore
Trimble

+ Others who have a chance
Ringrose
Van Der Flier
Luke Marshall
Alan O'Connor
Muldowney

by Don Alfonso Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:58 pm

Herring is better than Sherry - he should go instead. Alan O'Connor has looked excellent for Ulster, but I don't think he merits a call-up. Having said that, Foley was pretty poor against Leinster - how is he playing generally at the moment? Was that a one-off or has he gone off the boil? Either way, I'd have Muldowney there ahead of AOC. Think Stander has certainly earned a place in the reckoning.

Would love to see Payne at fullback, but I don't for a minute imagine it will happen.

by Don Alfonso Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:06 pm

The Steenson to Munster idea is an interesting one.

It would have to solely be about a crack at the international team though - he's completely bought into Exeter, I'm sure is on excellent money and probably stands a a better chance of silverware there.

On the other hand, if there were only two IQ 10s ahead of him in the reckoning, he'd likely get a shot.

by **profitius** Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:24 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:Herring is better than Sherry - he should go instead. Alan O'Connor has looked excellent for Ulster, but I don't think he merits a call-up. Having said that, Foley was pretty poor against Leinster - how is he playing generally at the moment? Was that a one-off or has he gone off the boil? Either way, I'd have Muldowney there ahead of AOC. Think Stander has certainly earned a place in the reckoning.

Would love to see Payne at fullback, but I don't for a minute imagine it will happen.

Foley isn't playing well but its hard to in that Munster side. I don't think he is Ireland standard anyway. He would be well down my list.

Sherry is a very good hooker. Only now coming back into form after being out for 2 years. I'd certainly rate him higher than Herring who looks alright but nothing special.

by Don Alfonso Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:02 am

Oh yeah - Sherry is good. But I think Herring is excellent. A real leader as well as a tough, technically very good hooker. We can just agree to disagree on that one.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:18 am

I rate both players very highly. Rob Herring is one of those players who would be touted as the next big thing if he were born and raised in Ireland. He is seriously underrated, possibly because he is playing second fiddle next to Rory Best (as almost every other hooker would be).

by The Great Aukster Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:54 pm

I can't believe that Munster would be interested in Steenson - I know that ROG was revered but do they really want to have another high percentage kicker who can't tackle? All the pain and angst they have gone through to get away from the forward dominated territorial game in the past few years would just be consigned to the bin.

by Sin é Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:15 am

Ah seriously TGA, Steenson isn't fit to wipe ROG's boots. Very Happy

As for the non-tackling part - looks like he had it sussed - your general is no use to his team if at the bottom of a ruck. Nor is he any use if continually being injured - think Sexton - his brave tackling hasn't done much service to any of his teams.

by asoreleftshoulder Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:51 am

Sin é wrote:Ah seriously TGA, Steenson isn't fit to wipe ROG's boots.
As for the non-tackling part - looks like he had it sussed - your general is no use to his team if at the bottom of a ruck. Nor is he any use if continually being injured - think Sexton - his brave tackling hasn't done much service to any of his teams.

Wow you don't think Sextons tackling has contributed to his teams winning the league twice,3 HC's,2 6N's and a Lions tour?Do you watch rugby or just spend your time on forums spouting jibberish?

by Don Alfonso Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:06 pm

Sin é wrote:Ah seriously TGA, Steenson isn't fit to wipe ROG's boots.
As for the non-tackling part - looks like he had it sussed - your general is no use to his team if at the bottom of a ruck. Nor is he any use if continually being injured - think Sexton - his brave tackling hasn't done much service to any of his teams.

This post - and Aukster's - are a perfect illustration of one of the Irish supporters' key problems in our mentality. I know that sounds sneery - I apologise for putting it this way, but it is. We seriously need to check our hero worship.

ROG is gone. He is absolutely irrelevant. Whether Steenson is fit to lace his boots is totally neither here nor there. Whether his type of play is like ROG's but not as good is a massive red herring. ROG is a chapter in a history book.

Would Steenson improve the current Munster team? Is he a better flushed than Keatley or Blyendaal? Those are the only pertinent questions. I'd say certainly the former, yet to see a properly fit Blyendaal. With Madigan in France, Steenson would stand a chance of being involved in the national set-up. It could work for everyone.

by **profitius** Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:18 am

According to reports, Ringrose has been called up to the Ireland training squad.

by Don Alfonso Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:36 pm

Saw that - no issue with him getting a bit of time with the squad.

by Sin é Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:09 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:
Sin é wrote:Ah seriously TGA, Steenson isn't fit to wipe ROG's boots.
As for the non-tackling part - looks like he had it sussed - your general is no use to his team if at the bottom of a ruck. Nor is he any use if continually being injured - think Sexton - his brave tackling hasn't done much service to any of his teams.

This post - and Aukster's - are a perfect illustration of one of the Irish supporters' key problems in our mentality. I know that sounds sneery - I apologise for putting it this way, but it is. We seriously need to check our hero worship.

That response was not hero worship.

ROG is gone. He is absolutely irrelevant. Whether Steenson is fit to lace his boots is totally neither here nor there. Whether his type of play is like ROG's but not as good is a massive red herring. ROG is a chapter in a history book.

ROG is gone, but to claim as TGA has, that ROG was just a 'high percentage kicker who can't tackle?' is just laughable and needs to be corrected.

Would Steenson improve the current Munster team? Is he a better flushed than Keatley or Blyendaal? Those are the only pertinent questions. I'd say certainly the former, yet to see a properly fit Blyendaal. With Madigan in France, Steenson would stand a chance of being involved in the national set-up. It could work for everyone.

Any player who can place kick would improve Munster, it doesn't necessarily have to be as an outhalf. Why would Steenson want to come to Munster anyway. He is 31 now and looks to be well settled with Exeter (and probably very well paid). If he didn't go back to Ulster, he hardly likely to come to Munster.

by Sin é Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:11 pm

profitius wrote:According to reports, Ringrose has been called up to the Ireland training squad.

I'd imagine Ulster & Munster players will be left out as they have Champs Cup games next weekend.

by **Notch** Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:21 pm

Steenson is unlikely to come to Munster, but equally Munster would be unwise not to enquire after him.

Even if Keatley can regain his best form, its hard to see who is going to push him inn the short term because Bleyendaal has such a terrible injury record. And Keatley isn't that great a player.

Munster have one of the best 9s around but they should be actively looking for an experienced 10 to sign on for the next 2 or 3 years. And I feel its extremely unlikely that you will be allowed to sign another NIQ 10. You missed out on Madigan, you lost Hanrahan, there's not that many other options on the armlet when it comes to Irish 10s.

by Sin é Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:35 pm

Well for the record, Steenson is signed up with Exeter until 2018. JJ will be back before then (thats if he is wanted) Very Happy

If placeking duties were removed from Keatley, he would be fine. Perhaps its time to let Conor Murray & young Scannell do the placekicking.

Munster have 2 very good young outhalfs coming through - Thomas Quinlan (excellent kicker) and Bill Johnson who is only 18, but has surpassed JJ at this stage in that he has already played for the Munster senior team v Grenoble and London Irish.

by **Notch** Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:43 pm

I know all about those players but I'm talking about the next few years

by Sin é Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:52 pm

Notch wrote:I know all about those players but I'm talking about the next few years

Well, Steenson isn't available for a couple of years!

Murray & Scannell would be well able to take over the kicking duties now!

by **Notch** Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:58 pm

It's not just kicking duties... you need to either sign someone or throw one of the young guys in.

by eirebilly Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:59 am

I would say that Quinlan is slightly ahead of Johnson right now but there is not that much between them. Johnson, like JJ should have been, should be looked after by Munster but I would welcome JJ back in a heartbeat.

by **Notch** Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:52 pm

48-man Ireland training squad assembling at the start of this week. No full list available but according to media reports Garry Ringrose, Josh van der Flier, Stuart McCloskey and Ultan Dillane are all involved alongside the usual suspects.

by **rodders** Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:06 am

Luke Marshall called up too.

Phenomenal xmas period for the provinces - not individually but in terms of how competitive things are and how many players are putting their hands up.

Very impressed with Stander, Ringrose, VDF and Mccloskey. Stander is just a beast. A few of the old guard like O'Brien finding a bit of form too.

I think Joe will go for a lot of familiar faces in the 6N but there is definitely a new crop emerging and the back row and 3/4s in particular will be very competitive over the next few years.

by eirebilly Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:44 pm

I agree with you rodders in regards to Joe selecting the familiar faces and that is fine with me if they are on form. If not on form then he may have an issue.

Has there been any word as to who will be the Irish captain?

by **Notch** Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:53 pm

Not that I've seen. Apparently the the guy who is replacing Les Kiss will be announced when the first squad is confirmed, so the new Captain will probably be named at the same time.

by **rodders** Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:13 pm

Well the most obvious candidate is Heaslip, followed by Best.

Best at 33 is pretty short sighted pick, although could do a job in the short term - Heaslip is omnipresent but for me Stander offers a lot more as a player, and is getting on a bit too.

By process of elimination it can't be anyone other than O'Mahoney.

by the-goon Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:59 pm

Conor Murray for captain? Has he captained Munster before? Looks to be a player who leads by example.

by eirebilly Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:18 pm

Not sure about Murray for captain myself. For me there are three front runners, POM, Heaslip and Sexton. I would not mind either of them to be honest but feel that POM is the man as he has already captained at all levels.

by **profitius** Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:06 pm

Best would be my choice. Experienced, smart and handles referees well. He also has the respect of the players. Heaslip doesn't strike me as captain material.

Any word on the new (defence) coach?

by **rodders** Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:36 am

the-goon wrote:Conor Murray for captain? Has he captained Munster before? Looks to be a player who leads by example.

No chance. He's in very poor form as well.

Captain should be in the forwards for me. The problem for Ireland is that the best candidates are in the back row, where it is really competitive.

O'Mahoney fits the bill most but with a caveat... I don't think he's in the top 5 back rowers if everyone is fit and on form I'd be looking at the combination of Ruddock, Van de Flier and Stander with O'Brien on the bench.

I'd also have O'Donnell, Henry, Copeland, Heaslip ahead of him too - maybe O'Donaghue.

So that leaves Best again but for me 33 is too old, although Moore for Australia was getting on too so feasibly he could play at the top level until he's 36.... but to preserve that I'd see him putting in 60min performances a lot of the time and being subbed for Strauss and (at Ulster) Herring.

I think the politics of the situation will see O'Mahoney or Heaslip get the nod - O'Mahoney is definitely one of the IRFU darlings and endorsed heavily by the sponsors. I just hope we don't end up in a situation like England where the captain isn't in the team on merit.

by eirebilly Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:52 am

You don't think that when fit and on form POM is one of the top 5 backrowers in Ireland rodders? Personally i think he is and is one of the first players on the team sheet on merit.

by **rodders** Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:04 am

eirebilly wrote:You don't think that when fit and on form POM is one of the top 5 backrowers in Ireland rodders? Personally i think he is and is one of the first players on the team sheet on merit.

No I don't Billser. That's not to say I don't rate a lot of things he does - the lineout, poaching ball etc. He's very smart in what he does.

However the back row hasn't been balanced in a number of years - when O'Brien is on form carrying wise it works a bit and also with Ian Henderson, they take up the slack with POMs fairly low work rate.

For me Ruddock is the best natural blindside - he adds more physicality and robustness. The back row should be built around CJ Stander, who is a very special player imo.

That leaves room for a natural open side and VDF looks like a real star, and in the shorter term O'Brien, Henry or O'Donnell can also do this role.

by eirebilly Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:10 am

POM's fairly low work rate? Not really ever heard anyone say that POM has a low work rate, he is one of the players that is all over the field. Very surprised by that comment rodders.

Stander is a monster but if he is to start the Heaslip will have to be dropped and I honestly cannot see Joe dropping him.

I agree about the balance sometimes lacking for Ireland and on occasion but I don't always agree that is down to POM (although in games past I have said that POM brought an inbalance) but more to do with the gameplan.

by **rodders** Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:29 am

eirebilly wrote:POM's fairly low work rate? Not really ever heard anyone say that POM has a low work rate, he is one of the players that is all over the field. Very surprised by that comment rodders.

POMS stats are ridiculously low compared to other international back rows (he effects about a 3rd of the tackles of our other back rows (plus Best) and maybe a 5th of someone like Robshaw, Haskell Dusitoir, Lydiate - high volume players).

Now in part that is the way he plays, he stand off the rucks and waits until he can be effective and reads this very well, so this doesn't tell the full story but he does put pressure on his teammates to take up the slack to allow him to influence games.

No I don't see Schmidt dropping Heaslip for Stander - but he should imo.

by BamBam Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:32 am

Is POM not out for the 6N anyway? If so, surely its a moot point, as Ruddock has been excellent on the few occasions I've seen him and should be the starting 6

As an outsider, surely you'd name pick your side, then name a captain for this 6N (probably Best as I too think Stander should be a starter even if Heaslip has to be dropped)

At that point, its up to POM to take the shirt off the incumbent

by eirebilly Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:29 pm

I honestly believe that you are being overly harsh on POM there rodders. He does a lot of sealing of the ball, turnovers and his lineout work is up there with the best. He is a natural leader who leads by the front so I feel he is one of the first names on the team sheet and an excellent captain candidate.

Stats don't cover all areas of a players ability.

by **Notch** Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:47 pm

I think BamBam is right and O'Mahony isn't going to be fit in time.

I would go with Ruddock on the blindside alongside O'Brien and Heaslip. I'd be sorely tempted to use CJ Stander as an impact sub.

by **rodders** Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:24 pm

eirebilly wrote:I honestly believe that you are being overly harsh on POM there rodders. He does a lot of sealing of the ball, turnovers and his lineout work is up there with the best. He is a natural leader who leads by the front so I feel he is one of the first names on the team sheet and an excellent captain candidate.

Stats don't cover all areas of a players ability.

I agree with all that (except the bit about me being harsh of course). The point is O'Mahoney isn't a stereotypical 6, therefore if you select him it puts certain responsibilities on the other back 5 players to compensate.

Here just in case you think I'm one for picking on the Munstermen, what about Donners at Worchestor? There's life in that auld dog yet!

by **Notch** Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:27 pm

What I think we'll sorely miss is O'Mahonys link play. He's been able to play an important part in various set moves under Schmidt, and he's a better footballer than the players competing for his shirt.

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