England Squad for the 6N 2016

First topic message reminder :

Well, the dust is settling on our early exit, time to concentrate on the next disappointment.

We obviously have no idea who the Head Coach or team will be at this current point, but we can take a stab at the potential squad going into the 6N.

2 games into the AP season, who's looking impressive? Who can come in under the radar and steal a spot? Are any of the disappointing WC squad going to grab the bull by the horns and actually impress! Who should be captain? What could or starting 23 be? Do we starting blooding for 2019 now?

Eddie also said he had watched all the England internationals this year, on tv replay I presume. So he has started his film sessions already, which he would have needed to do in order to have passed through the job interviews.  No doubts he already has an idea which few players he absolutely wants and which few he doesn't want.  For most of the rest of players he will have to invite them to training and go from there.  

It will be interesting to see his philosophy for developing the squad:
Will he want to start young and grow the squad aiming for 2019, building obviously on the base established by Lancaster
Or will he try to win immediately and then integrate players into the winning mentality on the fly (my preference).

The way he was talking was he wanted to win the next game, so I guess the latter.

Welly wrote: Matt Smith for England captain.

The skinny obnoxious dude who played Doctor Who? Really? The guy who was living in a Police Box with a series of snappy women and never, ahem, rose to the occasion?

doctor_grey wrote:

Welly wrote: Matt Smith for England captain.

The skinny obnoxious dude who played Doctor Who?  Really?  The guy who was living in a Police Box with a series of snappy women and never, ahem, rose to the occasion?

Very funny anyway the captaincy will prob go to the next England hooker................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Harry Thacker

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The way he was talking was he wanted to win the next game, so I guess the latter.

I am hoping. I actually agree with Eddie that Lancaster did leave a good nucleus to build from. It wll be interesting to see what he does from here. Will certainly give us a lot to discuss......

Welly wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Welly wrote: Matt Smith for England captain.

The skinny obnoxious dude who played Doctor Who?  Really?  The guy who was living in a Police Box with a series of snappy women and never, ahem, rose to the occasion?

Very funny anyway the captaincy will prob go to the next England hooker................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Harry Thacker

OK. But only if Cockers teaches him how to stand up to the Haka.......

Next captain will be Tom youngs, just for a certain poster on here. 

Out of interest who do you think could face the axe?

Are players like Lawes , Ben Morgan etc safe?

I think a lot of players are on the bubble.  I think a lot depends on how familiar Eddie can get with the players before Six Nations training.  But he would have had to present some compelling vision during his interviews some of whch had to be based on some knowledge of the players.  One advantage Lancaster did have was familiarity with many of the players beofre taking the position.  

I could easily see Morgan on the bubble, especially if not in game shape.  Lawes, I think, shows the toughness which might appeal to Eddie.  But, in reality, I think most of the players in the pack could be on the bubble.  Cole, if healthy, is probably fine.  Maybe Hartley.  Many of the current players will have to be retained in the squad, but I think it will be difficult to predict who.  

In the backs, I would guess the safe players are Brown, Watson, JJ (if healthy), Ford, Care, Youngs, Burgess (OK that's a little joke).

I suppose it is a good thing that not many players are considered safe.  We wlll have some interesting time ahead.  By the way only 2 and 1/2 months to the Six Nations.........

GeordieFalcon wrote:Out of interest who do you think could face the axe?

Are players like Lawes , Ben Morgan etc safe?

Take a look at Glaws highlights from yesterday. Ben Morgans try was fantastic.



Really dislike his attitude (and that my 14yo daughter thinks he is cute) but have been impressed with Owen Farrell's all round play so far this season.

It might be that'll he give the majority a chance to redeem themselves with maybe only a few changes whilst he still works out what he has available to him.

Well that's good to hear LT.

GeordieFalcon wrote:It might be that'll he give the majority a chance to redeem themselves with maybe only a few changes whilst he still works out what he has available to him.

There is a real risk of coming in and selecting a team that have never played together right from the start.

Maybe he will do what Gatland did and select a first side based on a single club, though perhaps not as many as the 13 Ospreys that Gats selected.

LondonTiger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Out of interest who do you think could face the axe?

Are players like Lawes , Ben Morgan etc safe?

Take a look at Glaws highlights from yesterday. Ben Morgans try was fantastic.



Really dislike his attitude (and that my 14yo daughter thinks he is cute) but have been impressed with Owen Farrell's all round play so far this season.

That's the second time I've heard this from teen girls. What is wrong with the youth these days!!

#brokenbritain

LondonTiger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:It might be that'll he give the majority a chance to redeem themselves with maybe only a few changes whilst he still works out what he has available to him.

There is a real risk of coming in and selecting a team that have never played together right from the start.

Maybe he will do what Gatland did and select a first side based on a single club, though perhaps not as many as the 13 Ospreys that Gats selected.

If he does it'll be Saracens, which'll depressingly probably work out quite well. But make me want to stab a fork in my eye!

Off the top of my head that'd be Mako, George, ?, Kruis, Itoje, Wray, Fraser, Vunipola, Wigglesworth, Farrell, Ashton, Barrett, Tomkins, ?, Goode

So yea easily 13

I guess a lot will depend on how these players go for the next month or so. You can't judge Lawes and how he might be at the 6N just on the RWC when he seemed to be playing on one leg most of the time

Tompkins only 3rd choice for Sarries and Wray some way short of the quality needed.

However yes, he could go a Sarries dominated route initially

yappysnap wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Really dislike his attitude (and that my 14yo daughter thinks he is cute) but have been impressed with Owen Farrell's all round play so far this season.

That's the second time I've heard this from teen girls. What is wrong with the youth these days!!
#brokenbritain

TWO girls think Morgan is cute?  Cute like Santa Claus' fat brother?  

LT, we have to get our daughters together and maybe they can find some middle ground.  My 15 year old daughter goes for the skinny jeans wearing, punkassprettyboy types.  Makes me want to vomit.  

One of my other daughters still has a pic of Jonny.  So my family is not entirely doomed to perdition and perhaps there is still hope for England and the Empire.

Oof, if it was Ben Morgan I would be worried - what with me doing a good impression of Santa nowadays, even down to a worryingly white beard.

Sarries carved themselves a great win against Ulster last night. Deserved it 100% because their performance was top drawer in terrible wintry conditions. That said I was definitely underwhelmed by Itoje's contribution. Thought he looked slow of thought and deed and also physically underpowered. Definitely not an England player on that performance.

"There is a real risk of coming in and selecting a team that have never played together right from the start."

What like a Barbarian side you mean? Don't be too quick to dismiss that idea out of hand. There's plenty of baa baa sides that have done very well. If it means selecting THE BEST 15 players we have then so be it as far as I'm concerned. I'm vary anti giving newbies a go just "to see" if they are any good. All players should only be selected if they are the best we have in the country. That's the essence of being a national coach where winning your next game is the only thing of importance.

"One advantage Lancaster did have was familiarity with many of the players before taking the position."

That's very true but I also think it was a major part of his problem. I think he ignored better players just because he wasn't familiar with them and had a misguided loyalty to players he knew well. He should have had a much keener focus on winning games rather than keeping people he knew happy.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Out of interest who do you think could face the axe?

Are players like Lawes , Ben Morgan etc safe?

Players for the waste disposal shute are :- T. Youngs, M. Vuniploa, Lawes, Robshaw and Wood. If England want a good set piece again then they have to go.

Would you not consider Robshaw for 6?

Tackles for fun, non stop engine, actually not a bad lineout option?
That would work with Kvesic or Fraser on the other flank. And you keep some experience in there...whilst he's not a great captain he is a good player.

You could equally say the same about Wood. Change his instructions slightly on the pitch and try to get him playing like a few years ago and he's a hell of a player. Just lacks that little bit of power for my liking...but that could be made up in the pack.

Englandglory4ever,
Good point about the team selection. One of the better games played by England was the first game in the tour to NZ when the players were fresh off the Premiership season and the finals prevented any Saints and Saracens players from participating. A team without many preferred Lancaster starters ran the All Blacks hard to the end. Not quite a Barbarian side, but in that direction.

My point about Lancaster knowing many of the players was really a suggested reason why he started fairly quickly with good results. I agree with you this became part of the problem because other players he was less familiar with were not part of The Plan, and never received serious consideration.

englandglory4ever wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Out of interest who do you think could face the axe?

Are players like Lawes , Ben Morgan etc safe?

Players for the waste disposal shute are :- T. Youngs, M. Vuniploa, Lawes, Robshaw and Wood. If England want a good set piece again then they have to go.

Replaced by?

Players i would replace from world cup 31 squad:
Webber -Hartley (I would love for Heywood to overtake Hartley at some point please)
youngs - Cowan-Dickie 50/50 (Both are pretty much the same IMO esp @ Lineout)
Marler - Mullan
Lawes - Slater/Attwood
Parling - Kitchener/Itojie
Haskell - Robshaw (As a six)
Wood - Ewers (Incoming a certain someone)
Robshaw (@7) - Kvesic/Fraser/O'Connor
Easter - Beaumont/Hughes/O'Connor
Wigglesworth - Simpson/Robson
Barritt - Who cares ATM.
Goode - Foden/Cips (Although cips as a choice Full back)

IMO you could make a 6N's winning side from that IMO.

Aus i would look to bring in some more changes, O'connor prob got more of a shot in the aus internationals replacing maybe Robshaw.

Who's O'Connor?

yappysnap wrote:Who's O'Connor?

Good Lord.

I'm not letting you anywhere near my band wagon.

yappysnap wrote:Who's O'Connor?

Tigers 7 who has an English grandparent. I started the bandwagon, all hop aboard!

englandglory4ever wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Out of interest who do you think could face the axe?

Are players like Lawes , Ben Morgan etc safe?

Players for the waste disposal shute are :- T. Youngs, M. Vuniploa, Lawes, Robshaw and Wood. If England want a good set piece again then they have to go.

You are aware we've had a good set piece with those players before, in fact just before the World Cup warm ups

nathan wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Out of interest who do you think could face the axe?

Are players like Lawes , Ben Morgan etc safe?

Players for the waste disposal shute are :- T. Youngs, M. Vuniploa, Lawes, Robshaw and Wood. If England want a good set piece again then they have to go.

You are aware we've had a good set piece with those players before, in fact just before the World Cup warm ups

The 6N?

Welly wrote:Players i would replace from world cup 31 squad:
Webber -Hartley (I would love for Heywood to overtake Hartley at some point please)
youngs - Cowan-Dickie 50/50 (Both are pretty much the same IMO esp @ Lineout)
Marler - Mullan
Lawes - Slater/Attwood
Parling - Kitchener/Itojie
Haskell - Robshaw (As a six)
Wood - Ewers Clifford
Robshaw (@7) - Kvesic/Fraser/O'Connor
Easter - Beaumont/Hughes/O'Connor Ewers (covers 6 & 8)
Wigglesworth - Simpson/Robson
Barritt - Who cares ATM.
Goode - Foden/Cips (Although cips as a choice Full back)

IMO you could make a 6N's winning side from that IMO.

Aus i would look to bring in some more changes, O'connor prob got more of a shot in the aus internationals replacing maybe Robshaw.

Minor tweaks...and maybe big Matt Garvey for a completely different option....and Auterac looking good against Leinster today....give Ross all sorts of problems..

Jonathon Joseph expected back mid December...apparently hes making exceptional progress.

Lets hope they're not just rushing him though.

What injury is JJ carrying?

Bath just beat Leinster and several England members played well..

Also Auterac (MOM) and Henry Thomas were hugely impressive.

As was me owld mucka Matt Garvey

Rory_Gallagher wrote:What injury is JJ carrying?

I think it was his pectoral he tore in the WC and hes had an op.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Bath just beat Leinster and several England members played well..

Also Auterac (MOM) and Henry Thomas were hugely impressive.

As was me owld mucka Matt Garvey

Agree with the props, but seems like my Anti-Garvey goggles are still working as i was rather unimpressed.

Ah I thought he was good but probably should be in the second row now not out on the flank.

I still think Robshaw could still have that 6 spot for England.

Brookes MOM as saints beat Glasgow

Along with George last week and Auterac today, younger players doing their best to impress Jones.

LondonTiger wrote:Along with George last week and Auterac today, younger players doing their best to impress Jones.

Keran Brookes had a great game for Saints today. Man of the Match, for what it's worth.

Aye, my comment was in response to GF saying that

LondonTiger wrote:Aye, my comment was in response to GF saying that

Ah, so I have proven once again my gross inability to read even two or three posts upwards.  My excuse is that I was basking in the afterglow of a solid Saints win and my mind was in a happy sedate place.

At Saints we are very good at developing players.......

At Saints we are very good at developing players.......

So are the falcons Doc..... like Brookes

Just a shame they don't fancy hanging around for a while.

doctor_grey wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Along with George last week and Auterac today, younger players doing their best to impress Jones.

Keran Brookes had a great game for Saints today.  Man of the Match, for what it's worth.  

Presumably for only 20 minutes though? It's a well known fact his scrummaging collapses after that long........ There is also a weird board-myth building up that somehow Lawes is a reason for the poor performance of the English scrum in the WC.

Jones must have been delighted with what he's seen from EQed players so far this weekend. For instance, today was one of the best performances I've seen from Hill (although his lack of a kicking game is still a big issue for me - Devoto's kicking game was a very useful option for Bath), Auturac and Thomas were excellent, and Slade followed high quality performances from Farrell and Ford with an assured display in a position he hasn't played much recently.

Interesting performance from Brookes, he certainly outdid his usual 20mins of scrummaging then fall apart act. To be fair though, the Glasgow scrum was an absolute shambles, he hardly had to work for it.

It's an interesting scenario really as Brookes looked pretty average at Falcons for the majority of his time there. Is he thriving at Saints or are the rest of the pack making him look better than he actually is? I suspect the latter tbh.

DaveM wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Along with George last week and Auterac today, younger players doing their best to impress Jones.

Keran Brookes had a great game for Saints today.  Man of the Match, for what it's worth.  

Presumably for only 20 minutes though? It's a well known fact his scrummaging collapses after that long........ There is also a weird board-myth building up that somehow Lawes is a reason for the poor performance of the English scrum in the WC.

Jones must have been delighted with what he's seen from EQed players so far this weekend. For instance, today was one of the best performances I've seen from Hill (although his lack of a kicking game is still a big issue for me - Devoto's kicking game was a very useful option for Bath), Auturac and Thomas were excellent, and Slade followed high quality performances from Farrell and Ford with an assured display in a position he hasn't played much recently.

I don't think anyone is saying Lawes was the reason England exited the WC so quick.

I think people have identified an area (the pack, it's power etc) and are questioning if we have the right parts.

That's allowed.