England Squad for the 6N 2016 #2

First topic message reminder :

Well, the dust is settling on our early exit, time to concentrate on the next disappointment.

We obviously have no idea who the Head Coach or team will be at this current point, but we can take a stab at the potential squad going into the 6N.

2 games into the AP season, who's looking impressive? Who can come in under the radar and steal a spot? Are any of the disappointing WC squad going to grab the bull by the horns and actually impress! Who should be captain? What could or starting 23 be? Do we starting blooding for 2019 now?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Manu Tuilagi who's just back from long term injury? Tuilagi who can't or won't pass. Tuilagi who has no step and just runs at people. Him at 12?

Ok

Its good to have both heavyweight and elusive options in the back line, and if it can be made to work a Manu/JJ  center combo could be very dangerous.

Manu - JJ/Daly

I think JJ is probably the better runner, but I really like the options Daly gives you. Not only is he a good runner, but he has a monster boot, and is happy to drop a goal etc when its on.

Yeah I had been wondering that too, especially with the odd question mark over Ford as a kicker (range etc). I recon JJ could do a decent shift on the wing if needed.

Jones has always liked a forward who can play so Beaumont makes sense as a differing option to Billy. I like the idea personally as I think he has been excellent for Sale. It is also a very positive indication that Jones is planning on asking more than one of his forwards to carry the ball in heavy traffic which is promising and a revelation on our RWC play. Beaumont has many strengths but making yards with 3 tacklers hanging of him like Billy can isn't his forte.

If the leaked squads are correct then I'll be very happy. The guys being touted are a clear indication that Jones wants to play a fast game with a high ball in play time and a willingness to go through the phases.

I think Itoje in is the right decision but I do feel for Kitchener. I think Lawes is another who would be best at his club for a few more weeks just now. If we rate Itoje compared to the performances locks he's replacing rather than the hype then he will be a positive addition. I don't think he will be the game changer some expect just yet. He will however offer much more physicality and bite than our RWC locks. Especially in defence where it will be refreshing to see a second row hurling their weight into big runners in the tackle rather than hugging an ankle and being carried over the gain line.

Kvesic I would feel for if he misses out. I think he, Fraser and Clifford are on a very similar level. However Kvesic has performed at that level more consistently and for longer than both so deserves a shot IMO.

If they are right about the props, that is Saints season finished. Both tight heads in the squad, that leaves us with Denman who I do not rate at all, he gets eaten alive by any decent loosie and I don't know, Ethan Waller has covered there. With Hartley on call as well we are going to be in serious trouble.

1.Mako 2.Hartley 3.Brookes 4.Launchbury 5.Kruis 6.Robshaw 7.Fraser 8.Billy
9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.Nowell 12.Manu 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Brown

16.George 17.Marler/Mullan 18.Cole 19.Itoje 20.Clifford 21.Care 22.Ford 23.Daly

Looks like if he has everyone from those squads are available we will be looking at something like that. Youngs or Care could change places, similarly with Daly and Joseph. I'm very happy with that as a 23 though.

Without Brookes and Manu involved against Scotland plus Hartley, Launchbury, Kruis and Nowell possibly out changes will be made to that though. Worst case scenario with current injuries, i.e. all those guys unavailable, will leave it something like below.

1.Mako 2.George 3.Cole 4.Itoje 5.Lawes 6.Robshaw 7.Fraser 8.Billy
9.Youngs 10.Ford 11.Ashton/Yarde 12.Farrell 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Brown

16.Youngs 17.Marler/Mullan 18.Hill 19.Kitchener 20.Clifford 21.Care 22.Goode? 23.Daly

I'd take issue to Farrell being considered at 12. That second row is too lightweight for my liking as well. It has the makings of a very promising squad though!

I just hope Eddie is luckier than Lancaster was

No Simpson so some of those squads are wrong

Live feed here guys:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/12096694/Eddie-Jones-first-England-squad-six-nations-live.html

lostinwales wrote:No Simpson so some of those squads are wrong

Apparently only two scrum halves.

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/seven-uncapped-players-england-squad/

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Jack Clifford (Harlequins)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Paul Hill (Northampton Saints)  
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) *injury replacement for Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs)  
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby) *injury replacement for Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)

Backs

Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Ollie Devoto (Bath Rugby) *injury replacement for Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs) *injury replacement for Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Luke "Is that a barn door over there?" Cowan-Dickie!!!!!!!!!

No Tom youngs. There is a God after all.

Isn't Cowan-Dickie injured?

So by position:

Props - Marler, Mullan, Mako, Cole, Hill, Thomas (injury replacement for Brookes)
Hooker - Hartley, George, LCD
Lock - Lawes, Launchbury, Itoje, Kruis
BR - Robshaw, Haskell, Kvesic, Clifford, Billy V, Beaumont (Kvesic injury replacement for Ewers)

SH - Care, Youngs
FH - Ford, Farrell
Centre - JJ, Daly, Hill, Devoto (Hill and Devoto injury replacements for Tuilagi and Slade)
B3 - Brown, Nowell, Watson, Yarde, Goode

Exiledinborders wrote:Luke "Is that a barn door over there?" Cowan-Dickie!!!!!!!!!

Interestingly, Thomas is the injury replacement for Brookes, meaning Hill would have been in anyway?

Likewise with Kvesic in for Ewers, does that mean Clifford is the only 7 with Robshaw in reserve?

No Fraser then.

Exciting positive squad that.

Pleased with the squad, wonder if this is Jones sitting Clifford down and telling him "YOU ARE A SEVEN!"

As Kvesic is an injury replacement, does that mean he could easily slip out of the squad when Ewers is back?

So the reports were a little off it turns out. Kvesic preferred to Fraser. No Youngs but LCD instead, and no Simpson. A little surprised by that last one. Other than that, pretty pleased with the squad picked.

BamBam wrote:Interestingly, Thomas is the injury replacement for Brookes, meaning Hill would have been in anyway?

Likewise with Kvesic in for Ewers, does that mean Clifford is the only 7 with Robshaw in reserve?

I think those injury replacements are meaningless. If Kvesic plays and plays well will he be dropped for Ewers? No. Ewers could always come in because somebody else will be injured.

So when was the last time Hartley was in form, not injured or not suspended?

I'll bite on the LCD remarks, he had 1 bad game in a position that is highlighted by the cameras. He is absolutely exceptional in the scrum and the loss and his throwing before breaking his thumb this season was good.

Typical English mentality to write off a junior World Cup winner and Prem rugby youngster at the age of 21 due to one game on television. Unless you watch LCD every week it's hard to have a real opinion on him.

I could easily write that Kvesic doesn't deserve his place as he hoot schooled by the Chiefs back row on Saturday BUT it's just one game.....

He seems to have picked more on a mathematical basis, so two in all positions except for the front row which have three of everyone.  So no 3rd scrum-half or fly-half. Harsh on Simpson, but no match day squad could contain 3 so I see the logic.

Overall not bad.  Still would have favoured Kitchener over Lawes.

englandglory4ever wrote:No Tom youngs. There is a God after all.

I was just thinking Pooly will be happy

A lot can be read into who is also picked in the Saxons squad.
There is traditionally a lot of interchange between the 2 squads too.

propdavid_london wrote:A lot can be read into who is also picked in the Saxons squad.  
There is traditionally a lot of interchange between the 2 squads too.

this is very true

lostinwales wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:No Tom youngs. There is a God after all.

I was just thinking Pooly will be happy

though probably not so happy about Itoje and LCD making the squad

I don't mind seeing LCD in there TBH, yes he had that 'mare with his throwing against France, but... well what the other guy said. Judging people solely on one performance is silly...

It's a shame Mitch Lees is out for so long. He would have pushed lawes out.

It's a bit weird that after all the talk of the need for a proper 7 there aren't any picked in the actual squad, other than as an injury replacement...

In place of which newby not making it? Hasn't he reached his limit of changes there?

Talking of the Saxons squad, where is it? Or is that named separately

8(5) saracens
6(3) quins
5(1) bath
4(3) wasps
3(3) Northampton
3(1) Exeter
2(1) Leicester
1(1) Gloucs
1(1) Sale

(forwards)

lostinwales wrote:8(5) saracens
6(3) quins
5(1) bath
4(3) wasps
3(3) Northampton
3(1) Exeter
2(1) Leicester
1(1) Gloucs
1(1) Sale

(forwards)

I wonder if any of the coaches have a sarries link....

On a serious note, will sarries struggle when they lose these players

how do injury replacements work? Will the injured players come straight back in after the Scotland game or are the injury replacements for the entire tournament?

Ewers is nearly fit now and will probs be playing by the Scotland game

BamBam wrote:Talking of the Saxons squad, where is it? Or is that named separately

I read one claim (can't remember where) that the Saxons squad might not be made public because there aren't actually any games. That sounded strange to me, because I'd have thought you still need to name it for training purposes, if nothing else.

Rugby Fan wrote:

BamBam wrote:Talking of the Saxons squad, where is it? Or is that named separately

I read one claim (can't remember where) that the Saxons squad might not be made public because there aren't actually any games. That sounded strange to me, because I'd have thought you still need to name it for training purposes, if nothing else.

There doesn't appear to be an option for 'saxons' on the RFU website either.

Goode!!!

lostinwales wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:No Tom youngs. There is a God after all.

I was just thinking Pooly will be happy

I seen it coming tbh, Jones isn't a fan.

TightHEAD wrote:Goode!!!

More so Haskell

lostinwales wrote:8(5) saracens
6(3) quins
5(1) bath
4(3) wasps
3(3) Northampton
3(1) Exeter
2(1) Leicester
1(1) Gloucs
1(1) Sale

(forwards)

People love to have a go at Sarries but at least they develop and pick English players. Leicester in particular seem to have decided to just import from abroad.

Slow and Sedate wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Goode!!!

More so Haskell

Haskell!!!!!!!! wtf.

Exiledinborders wrote:

lostinwales wrote:8(5) saracens
6(3) quins
5(1) bath
4(3) wasps
3(3) Northampton
3(1) Exeter
2(1) Leicester
1(1) Gloucs
1(1) Sale

(forwards)

People love to have a go at Sarries but at least they develop and pick English players. Leicester in particular seem to have decided to just import from abroad.

At least a few of their imports have been EQ .. O'Connor, Fitzgerald, Williams etc

The only really surprising picks seem to be Hill and Beaumont, although both were flagged up early, and Devoto. Everyone else coming in have been around the squad to some degree before.

Eddie Jones on the captaincy.

“We’ve got 33 players, then it gets down to 23, then we have to pick 15, then I’ll worry about the captain.” Could anyone be captain then? “Yeah, you could be captain, mate.”

“He’s got to be one of the first names in the team, your best player, lead by example, set standards of how we operate on the field, off the field, and be a conduit between staff and players.” Will it be an appointment for the long-term or just the Six Nations? “Probably just an appointment for the Six Nations, to start with.”

who's that pointing towards?

Fairly pleased with the squad it's ballsy to be leaving out the likes of Tom Wood and Tom Youngs and indeed Cipriani for that matter, what with all the media hype.

Personally I think it's a good squad, certainly a dividing line between the experience and the project players, Devoto was an equally brave call for someone who rarely starts for their club but has some serious talent in a position which Jones wants to develop.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Eddie Jones on the captaincy.

“We’ve got 33 players, then it gets down to 23, then we have to pick 15, then I’ll worry about the captain.” Could anyone be captain then? “Yeah, you could be captain, mate.”

“He’s got to be one of the first names in the team, your best player, lead by example, set standards of how we operate on the field, off the field, and be a conduit between staff and players.” Will it be an appointment for the long-term or just the Six Nations? “Probably just an appointment for the Six Nations, to start with.”

who's that pointing towards?

Doesn't sound like Hartley to me!

Jones confirming that Farrell will be "a candidate for [the IC] spot". Sees Slade as more of a 10 or 12 than 13. Robshaw is competing for the 6 shirt, doesn't want six-and-a-halfs (though how that squares with only picking Kvesic as injury cover...)

nathan wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Eddie Jones on the captaincy.

“We’ve got 33 players, then it gets down to 23, then we have to pick 15, then I’ll worry about the captain.” Could anyone be captain then? “Yeah, you could be captain, mate.”

“He’s got to be one of the first names in the team, your best player, lead by example, set standards of how we operate on the field, off the field, and be a conduit between staff and players.” Will it be an appointment for the long-term or just the Six Nations? “Probably just an appointment for the Six Nations, to start with.”

who's that pointing towards?

Doesn't sound like Hartley to me!

that's what I was thinking. Brown? Launchbury?

That just says Launchbury to me MFC.