England Squad Named

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SQUAD IN FULL

Here it is: Eddie Jones first squad as England head coach.

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) *injury replacement for Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby) *injury replacement for Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens)

Backs

Chris Ashton (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Ollie Devoto (Bath Rugby) *injury replacement for Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Alex Goode (Saracens), Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs) *injury replacement for Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Per Sky

Well Scotland do a more settled team than England.

So who knows?

majesticimperialman wrote:Well Scotland do a  more settled team than England.

So who knows?

Hardly a surprise - most of the scots fans could predict the squad and team - its not like we have a lot to choose from.

hugehandoff wrote:

lostinwales wrote:As for scrum performance, the only bad game even that England team had was the Australian game.

I have to disagree as we struggled in the scrums in several matches. Remember Fiji? England scrum on their own 5 m line after May just prevented Matawalu scoring a cracking try and pushed off their own ball and concede a penalty. That led to a cross field kick and the big unit scoring. Several scrums Fiji bossed England. Against France in the 2 warm up games we struggled in the scrums so the weakness was apparent for some time.

Fiji scrum was a surprise package and caused problems for everyone. We minced the Welsh scrum. But yes we have done better in the past...

I think the coaching team took their eye off the ball. Lancaster was so fixed on workrate and contributions in the loose that they trained and conditioned for that. Unfortunately, they then took fright and tried to revert to a set piece game that the forwards weren't prepared for. The technical term for this is a total cluster f**k.

There is no reason to believe that what has, in the past, been a formidable scrum, can't go back there pretty quickly.

Graham Dawe has been working with the England hookers this week apparently, clearly no more nice forwards! He could probably show them how to hook properly too...

Interesting that Marler seemed to really regress in his scummaging technique during the world cup, he was pinged for going in on any angle on numerous occasions. I haven't seen any of Quins games to see if he having a good club season. Can anyone enlighten me?

I can also envisage WP Nel having a field day against both Marler and Vinupola unless they have sorted out their engagement positioning.
From an England perspective I suspect that Hartley will add a bit of solidity to the front row which should help their scrums.

wickedwasp wrote:I think the coaching team took their eye off the ball.  Lancaster was so fixed on workrate and contributions in the loose that they trained and conditioned for that.  Unfortunately, they then took fright and tried to revert to a set piece game that the forwards weren't prepared for.   The technical term for this is a total cluster f**k.

There is no reason to believe that what has, in the past, been a formidable scrum, can't go back there pretty quickly.

Ive said that all along. The whole preparation was just wrong. But hey that's history

Hopefully we'll get back to the basics well and continue to use the backs.

My main concern to be honest is the breakdown. We've taken some absolute pastings in that area.. We need to address it.

Seems that Jones short term answer is having the muscle of Haskell doing that very basically.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

wickedwasp wrote:I think the coaching team took their eye off the ball.  Lancaster was so fixed on workrate and contributions in the loose that they trained and conditioned for that.  Unfortunately, they then took fright and tried to revert to a set piece game that the forwards weren't prepared for.   The technical term for this is a total cluster f**k.

There is no reason to believe that what has, in the past, been a formidable scrum, can't go back there pretty quickly.

Ive said that all along. The whole preparation was just wrong. But hey that's history

Hopefully we'll get back to the basics well and continue to use the backs.

My main concern to be honest is the breakdown. We've taken some absolute pastings in that area.. We need to address it.

Seems that Jones short term answer is having the muscle of Haskell doing that very basically.

I know we have beat that point to death, but wanting to state it in a different way.  The RWC training was the first and only time Lancaster had the team for an extended period of time, just dedicated to training and preparation.  The first time he could really mold his players.  And, as we now know, he got it very wrong.  Prior to that, and for the preceding 4 years, he used the players as they were for their clubs.  The obvious conclusion is the players should have now generally got back to the shape, conditioning, and strength they were at with their clubs prior to going to RWC training.  So their level of effectiveness now should be roughly equivalent to where they were going into last season's 6 Nations, plus a little experience, minus a little wear and tear. Add in the impact of an experienced coach, his leadership and plan, and a few different players to complement the plan, the team could (should?) be expected to have championship goals?

doctor_grey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

wickedwasp wrote:I think the coaching team took their eye off the ball.  Lancaster was so fixed on workrate and contributions in the loose that they trained and conditioned for that.  Unfortunately, they then took fright and tried to revert to a set piece game that the forwards weren't prepared for.   The technical term for this is a total cluster f**k.

There is no reason to believe that what has, in the past, been a formidable scrum, can't go back there pretty quickly.

Ive said that all along. The whole preparation was just wrong. But hey that's history

Hopefully we'll get back to the basics well and continue to use the backs.

My main concern to be honest is the breakdown. We've taken some absolute pastings in that area.. We need to address it.

Seems that Jones short term answer is having the muscle of Haskell doing that very basically.

I know we have beat that point to death, but wanting to state it in a different way.  The RWC training was the first and only time Lancaster had the team for an extended period of time, just dedicated to training and preparation.  The first time he could really mold his players.  And, as we now know, he got it very wrong.  Prior to that, and for the preceding 4 years, he used the players as they were for their clubs.  The obvious conclusion is the players should have now generally got back to the shape, conditioning, and strength they were at with their clubs prior to going to RWC training.  So their level of effectiveness now should be roughly equivalent to where they were going into last season's 6 Nations, plus a little experience, minus a little wear and tear.  Add in the impact of an experienced coach, his leadership and plan, and a few different players to complement the plan, the team could (should?) be expected to have championship goals?  

Yes. I don't think the RWC performance will have any bearing on how the team will perform at the 6N, and the longer anyone else thinks otherwise the better.

majesticimperialman wrote:Well Scotland do a  more settled team than England.

So who knows?

More settled really?

Eddie Jones is quite clearly going for experience over form against Scotland.

Compare the caps of the expected packs.

Sadly experience doesn't guarantee a team will play well.

Form, balance, cohesion and having a more all round team are important too.


Perhaps I am just holding onto a crumb of hope that maybe just maybe Eddie Jones is going for experience primarily in this first game because he's not had enough time with the England squad yet. Hoping that in the next game vs Italy, he'll play a more agreeable side.

Get a narrow win vs Scotland to get a W on the board (I think there is a real possibility of a loss with EJ's expected selection though) then face Italy with more experience of the overall squad is what I hope.

Clutching at straws

Very negative beshocked. Looks a generally strong pack from England. Question mark on whether we all wanted Fraser or Kvesic at 7 but it's a very similar pack to previous couple of years which rarely looks off the pace. Similar backline which looked very good last year.

Beshocked - its better than that. I still would haveEngland as favourites to beat Scotland and if they do I thik they will kick on.

The Scotland team has been pretty consistent in the selection since the last 6N so settled - but that is partly a reflection on the lack of choices we have. Scotland are still inexperienced tho.

Its a differnt set of issues. Scotland have a limited choice of player so selection is easy. England have a lot of players of similar talent but differnt attributes to chose from - make selection more tricky

The only area really scotland have any choice is in the back row - apart from that we have the team we have. Only 2 fit centres it looks like, only 3 fit wingers, only one 10 - well he picks himself doesn't he

What I think this 6 nations will prove is that Tom Wood actually wasn't all that integral to England and Lancaster's biggest failing was his stubbornness not to try other options at 6 and 7.

Haskell - I'd really rather we didn't have him but if we do I'd like the version versus Wales last 6ns, minus the post bit.

Happy about the pack, would rather not Haskell at 7, but meh

Backs less happy about, by which I mean 10-12-13 (though if Ford and Joseph hit stride, I'll be delighted and apologise. Farrell best 10 right now but not a 12 for me).

You're right no 7&1/2 it is a very negative England 23.

A 7 who doesn't really add any balance to the backrow.

An out of form 10, a 10 out of position and an out of form 13 - great backline....

TJ I think it's 50-50 at the moment.

Disagree, I don't think England have similar talent, England selectors have just not been getting the selection as right as they should. England at times have got the wrong balance of being too conservative in selection and on the other hand being too reckless.

It's important to get the right balance.

You only have 2 centres but I would pick either at 12 for England if I could.

Perhaps I just had unrealistic expectations - I was expecting EJ to be a breath of fresh air, blow some cobwebs away, shake things up with some exciting form picks. Not leaving 3 of the form players in England out of the 23. Not picking a 23 that looks remarkably similar to what Lancaster would have done with picks like Hartley at 2, Haskell at 7 and Farrell at 12.

Or Maybe Beshocked, Lancaster was getting generally the right players...just not getting their individual instructions and team instructions/ tactics correct.

Yes there are players who I want to see in there who it looks like theres not going to be...

HOWEVER , and lets use Haskell as an example.

We both have agreed consistently his biggest problem is his consistency. Against Wales last year he was immense...then disappeared for the rest (despite actually showing good stats in the other games)

On his game he can be explosive and powerful as we see week in week out for Wasps. Dai Young is getting out of him what Lancaster etc couldn't. Does that mean its more instructions.

If Jones can get the same result...he will be a very valuable player even at 7.

Geordiefalcon

Even in that game vs Wales, Haskell wasn't perfect, he ran into a post and should had perhaps helped Ford and May more for Faletau's try. Though saying that yes he was still decent.

Haskell can be explosive and powerful but he also lacks a bit of brainpower. If there's a brick wall he'll try and run through it instead of going round or over.

Not the only likely starter who holds that trait either.

You are right utilising a players' strengths is important and I agree that Lancaster probably didn't get the best out of his players but there is no guarantee that EJ can.

Ultimately it's down to balance again. Most sides use their 7 as a poacher/turnover machine.

I personally don't think Haskell adds enough to make up a loss in breakdown ability but we'll see. England already have enough potential disciplinary problems as it is too.

The thing Cotter did for us, and it is still a work in progress is he looked at our modest pool of players and tried to encapsulate a game that will suit us best.

In very rough handfuls Edinburgh's forwards with Glasgow's backline. Basically a strong set piece and mobile backrow to be very competative at the breakdown and a backline with some genuine flair and guts.

It's a very simplistic view but it is essentially what Cotter has done. He weighed up what we can do and picked a team to execute it.

It's so much harder to do that with England. You don't need me to tell you that England's player pool is absurdly large. So too are the clubs that play in the premiership. Quins, Sarries, Barf, Glaws, Tigers and Saints all play rugby in their own ways. The limited time Jones has had in the job will make selection and importantly getting the players to buy into his play style all the more difficult.

IMO he could have done worse than trying to replicate Lancaster's England from the 6N before his uber conservative style that Lancaster employed through fear in the RWC. Instead he has come in and stamped his own authority on things instead of making a shrewd decision to keep things largely as they are but with a few tweaks.

Lancaster's England became all of a sudden a poor team, primarily because of tactics, however I think the pressure the team was under was incredible. The English players are good and on paper probably better individual players than most of the Scotland team. However Cotter has got Scotland playing an effective game plan that was patchy in the RWC but came on song at the right times to see us win against Samoa, Japan and the USA and give the Ozzies a right scare.

I'm not sure how this fragmented England team with questionable leadership and players out of position is going to fare in the 6N, but I think whatever the results the RFU should persevere with Jones. He has had precious little time to prepare for this tournament and I still think you will make a good account of yourselves.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:...................... The English players are good and on paper probably better individual players than most of the Scotland team. .....................

Not convinced by that - depends on what attributes you rate highest but while the average quality of the England team might just shade it in many positions the Scots are better.  Tighthead, second row, back row I would put Scotland ahead.  Halfbacks on a par.  Centres Scotland to shade it ( or equalish now we have lost some to injury)  Back 3 England have the advantage

I am really looking forward to see ickle Jonny V launchbury.  Two players who would grace pretty much any side in the world.  I think ickle Jonny is the better player.  I am also really looking forward to the back row battle.  Englands power V Scotland speed.  FBs are a good matchup as well - anyone taking bets on a punchup between them?

Anyone want to have a crack at comparisons in the individuals?

Who would you take from the opponents team who would improve your team?  I think Nel, Hardie and Seymour would improve England.  I think Hartley, Care and one of your wingers would improve Scotland

Hmm. We'll see

The real killer might be the bench - clearly Englands advantage

beshocked wrote:You're right no 7&1/2 it is a very negative England 23.

A 7 who doesn't really add any balance to the backrow.

An out of form 10, a 10 out of position and an out of form 13 - great backline....

TJ I think it's 50-50 at the moment.

Disagree, I don't think England have similar talent, England selectors have just not been getting the selection as right as they should. England at times have got the wrong balance of being too conservative in selection and on the other hand being too reckless.

It's important to get the right balance.

You only have 2 centres but I would pick either at 12 for England if I could.

Perhaps I just had unrealistic expectations - I was expecting EJ to be a breath of fresh air, blow some cobwebs away, shake things up with some exciting form picks. Not leaving 3 of the form players in England out of the 23. Not picking a 23 that looks remarkably similar to what Lancaster would have done with picks like Hartley at 2, Haskell at 7 and Farrell at 12.

No I was saying you are being too negative, though you probably knew that.

TJ wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:...................... The English players are good and on paper probably better individual players than most of the Scotland team. .....................

Not convinced by that - depends on what attributes you rate highest but while the average quality of the England team might just shade it in many positions the Scots are better.  Tighthead, second row, back row I would put Scotland ahead.  Halfbacks on a par.  Centres Scotland to shade it ( or equalish now we have lost some to injury)  Back 3 England have the advantage

I am really looking forward to see ickle Jonny V launchbury.  Two players who would grace pretty much any side in the world.  I think ickle Jonny is the better player.  I am also really looking forward to the back row battle.  Englands power V Scotland speed.  FBs are a good matchup as well - anyone taking bets on a punchup between them?

Anyone want to have a crack at comparisons in the individuals?

Who would you take from the opponents team who would improve your team?  I think Nel, Hardie and Seymour would improve England.  I think Hartley, Care and one of your wingers would improve Scotland

Lets go through this logically then.

So from the squad the England team have published (leaked or whatever) I think the team would/should look like this IMO and i'll run a comparison with what we have to offer:

1. Vunipola - Dickinson (ADV Scotland)
2. Hartley - Ford (ADV Scotland)
3. Cole - Nel (ADV Scotland)
4. Kruis - J Gray (Evens)
5. Launchberry - R Gray (Evens)
6. Robshaw - Cowan (ADV England)
7. Haskell - Hardie (ADV Scotland)
8. B Vunipola - Denton (ADV England)
9. Youngs - Laidlaw (ADV England)
10. Ford - Russell (ADV England)
11. Watson - Lamont (ADV England   )
12. Farrell - Scott (ADV Scotland)
13. JJ - Taylor (Evens)
14. Nowell - Seymore (ADV England)
15. Brown - Hogg (ADV England)

On paper I would say England have the better players, whether or not Jones can get them to play as a cohesive unit in such little time remains to be seen.

Not sure about Ford on this form over Russell

ChequeredJersey wrote:Not sure about Ford on this form over Russell

I could say the same thing in reverse. Russell hasn't been great either.

Radge - pretty much as I would have it bar Brown / Hogg evens and surely Seymour has proved he is at least the equal of Nowell. Lamont tho

I might have JJ ahead as well

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

TJ wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:...................... The English players are good and on paper probably better individual players than most of the Scotland team. .....................

Not convinced by that - depends on what attributes you rate highest but while the average quality of the England team might just shade it in many positions the Scots are better.  Tighthead, second row, back row I would put Scotland ahead.  Halfbacks on a par.  Centres Scotland to shade it ( or equalish now we have lost some to injury)  Back 3 England have the advantage

I am really looking forward to see ickle Jonny V launchbury.  Two players who would grace pretty much any side in the world.  I think ickle Jonny is the better player.  I am also really looking forward to the back row battle.  Englands power V Scotland speed.  FBs are a good matchup as well - anyone taking bets on a punchup between them?

Anyone want to have a crack at comparisons in the individuals?

Who would you take from the opponents team who would improve your team?  I think Nel, Hardie and Seymour would improve England.  I think Hartley, Care and one of your wingers would improve Scotland

Lets go through this logically then.

So from the squad the England team have published (leaked or whatever) I think the team would/should look like this IMO and i'll run a comparison with what we have to offer:

1. Vunipola - Dickinson (ADV Scotland)
2. Hartley - Ford (ADV Scotland)
3. Cole - Nel (ADV Scotland)
4. Kruis - J Gray (Evens)
5. Launchberry - R Gray (Evens)
6. Robshaw - Cowan (ADV England)
7. Haskell - Hardie (ADV Scotland)
8. B Vunipola - Denton (ADV England)
9. Youngs - Laidlaw (ADV England)
10. Ford - Russell (ADV England)
11. Watson - Lamont (ADV England   )
12. Farrell - Scott (ADV Scotland)
13. JJ - Taylor (Evens)
14. Nowell - Seymore (ADV England)
15. Brown - Hogg (ADV England)

On paper I would say England have the better players, whether or not Jones can get them to play as a cohesive unit in such little time remains to be seen.

Lots of assumptions that is the actual squad for next week. It could all be mind games, and he might actually name a 23 with a few differences.

TJ wrote:Radge - pretty much as I would have it bar Brown / Hogg evens and surely Seymour has proved he is at least the equal of Nowell.  Lamont tho

I might have JJ ahead as well

Problem is Nowell is coming off an injury so we don't know what form he's going to show, but he can be quite a handful and will most likely do more work than the other 3 wingers on the pitch combined. If he's on form I think you might change your opinion of him over the course of the match.

I may have to be ready for humble pie and a large dose after the game but I'm not sure where the confidence in the Scottish front and back row comes from.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I may have to be ready for humble pie and a large dose after the game but I'm not sure where the confidence in the Scottish front and back row comes from.

Front row - the WC

Back row - watching them play. Back row will be interesting - England have the power, Scotland have the speed and breakdown skills

I'll get the pie ready and I'll make it tasty as I may have to be eating it

lostinwales wrote:

TJ wrote:Radge - pretty much as I would have it bar Brown / Hogg evens and surely Seymour has proved he is at least the equal of Nowell.  Lamont tho

I might have JJ ahead as well

Problem is Nowell is coming off an injury so we don't know what form he's going to show, but he can be quite a handful and will most likely do more work than the other 3 wingers on the pitch combined.  If he's on form I think you might change your opinion of him over the course of the match.

Oh I really rate Nowell - he and Seymour are the best two wingers

The Objective view

1. Vunipola - Dickinson (Even)
2. Hartley - Ford (England)
3. Cole - Nel  (Scotland)
4. Kruis - J Gray (Evens)
5. Launchberry - R Gray (Evens)
6. Robshaw - Cowan (Evens they bring different skills)
7. Haskell - Hardie  (Scotland)
8. B Vunipola - Denton (England)
9. Youngs - Laidlaw (Evens)
10. Ford - Russell (England)
11. Watson - Lamont (England)
12. Farrell - Scott  (Scotland)
13. JJ - Taylor (Evens)
14. Nowell - Seymor (Evens with Nowell just back)
15. Brown - Hogg (Evens both talisman for their respective country's)


There's not much in it but the better individuals do not necessarily make the better team of course - Its gonna be a cracker.  

YOu guys don't seem to rate ickle Jonny. Why not? He is a real great in my opinion. He is like two players - usually tops the tackle count, went an entire season last year only missing two tackles but making 15+ tackles per game, great in the lineout and carries well as well

It's going to be fantastic seeing him and Launchbury go up against it. Them 2 for me are the real deal.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's going to be fantastic seeing him and Launchbury go up against it. Them 2 for me are the real deal.

Yup - two players who would grace pretty much any team in the world

TJ wrote:YOu guys don't seem to rate ickle Jonny.  Why not?  He is a real great in my opinion.  He is like two players - usually tops the tackle count, went an entire season last year only missing two tackles but making 15+ tackles per game, great in the lineout and carries well as well

For me it's not a case of not rating him. I just rate Kruis highly too. The man is a wrecking machine, and his lineout work is superb.

Sorry guys – don’t buy any of it. Scotland haven’t gone from WSers to class just because they were beaten by Aus. And England haven’t become poor because they lost to 2 sides they beat the previous 2 meetings. I think both teams are pretty much where they were last 6N – and I expect similar results: England 2nd, Sco/Italy fighting out last place. Maybe with just Ire going off the boil and swapping places with Wales. Just MO.

A little too simplistic don't you think?

Barney McGrew did it wrote: Scotland haven’t gone from WSers to class just because they were beaten by Aus.

Nobody says we are class. However last year Cotter was new to the job, the game plan has taken a bit of time to implement and we have improved significantly since the last six nations. We are still very much a work in progress.

Barney McGrew did it wrote: And England haven’t become poor because they lost to 2 sides they beat the previous 2 meetings.

Fully agree. England will start the match as firm favorites, despite what the smiley gremlin Jones says.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I think both teams are pretty much where they were last 6N – and I expect similar results

You can't seriously believe that can you?

I disagree entirely, Scotland have improved significantly, have a settled side and an accepted and effective gameplan when executed properly. The fact that 87% of scottish posters agree on our 1st XXIII shows that the squad is really starting to settle. We have a powerful familiar front row, 2 canny lineout operators in the Gray brothers and a very quick and abrasive backrow. Coupled with genuine talent at 10 and Centres who can create oppertunites for the likes of Visser (when fit), Seymore and Hogg means we are in a much better place.

England on the otherhand are not settled. Your best hooker is on the bench, you have a wild card as captain and are potentially playing Haskell and Farrel out of position.

The Bath backline which is normally so deadly has been misfiring at club level and you are looking at playing the in form 10 at 12, Haskell at 7 and you have Jones looking to rip up what Lancaster has done and is stamping his own authority on the team. Last 6N you opened in Cardiff in a much stronger position, a settled coach and a settled team.

I fail to see why you think both teams are in the same positions that they were this time last year?

RubyGuby wrote:The Objective view

1. Vunipola - Dickinson (Even)
2. Hartley - Ford (England)
3. Cole - Nel  (Scotland)
4. Kruis - J Gray (Evens)
5. Launchberry - R Gray (Evens)
6. Robshaw - Cowan (Evens they bring different skills)
7. Haskell - Hardie  (Scotland)
8. B Vunipola - Denton (England)
9. Youngs - Laidlaw (Evens)
10. Ford - Russell (England)
11. Watson - Lamont (England)
12. Farrell - Scott  (Scotland)
13. JJ - Taylor (Evens)
14. Nowell - Seymor (Evens with Nowell just back)
15. Brown - Hogg (Evens both talisman for their respective country's)


There's not much in it but the better individuals do not necessarily make the better team of course - Its gonna be a cracker.  

Aside from Nel I don't think any Scottish player has a clear advantage whilst the England backline in general is a lot more dynamic, would rather not see Farrell at 12 but can't expect too many changes too soon.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:The Objective view

1. Vunipola - Dickinson (Even)
2. Hartley - Ford (England)
3. Cole - Nel  (Scotland)
4. Kruis - J Gray (Evens)
5. Launchberry - R Gray (Evens)
6. Robshaw - Cowan (Evens they bring different skills)
7. Haskell - Hardie  (Scotland)
8. B Vunipola - Denton (England)
9. Youngs - Laidlaw (Evens)
10. Ford - Russell (England)
11. Watson - Lamont (England)
12. Farrell - Scott  (Scotland)
13. JJ - Taylor (Evens)
14. Nowell - Seymor (Evens with Nowell just back)
15. Brown - Hogg (Evens both talisman for their respective country's)


There's not much in it but the better individuals do not necessarily make the better team of course - Its gonna be a cracker.  

Aside from Nel I don't think any Scottish player has a clear advantage whilst the England backline in general is a lot more dynamic, would rather not see Farrell at 12 but can't expect too many changes too soon.

And lets not forget no Australian would get into the England team

We can't all have the dominant set of results Wales can claim over Aus.

Hmm I admit I can’t speak in depth about the current Scotland, but last 6N they lost every game. I’m afraid they have to improve hugely just to gain some parity with the other sides. Can’t say I really saw that in the RWC except for 1 game. We’ll see I guess. Home advantage is significant.

As for England – it’s probably pretty much the same side as last 6N: a Robshaw, Haskell, Billy BR for a Wood/Haskell, Robshaw, Billy one, and a Ford, Farrell combo for a Ford, Barritt one. The 2 best hookers are in the 23. And the ripping-up Eddie has selected a cool-hand SL side. More of the same I’d say. Maybe with the dubious advantage of unleashing the beast in Dylan which could go either way.

Either side can win a one-off game true, but I think the table will end up pretty similar to last year.

Kruis has possibly been Sarries best forward this year

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Sorry guys – don’t buy any of it. Scotland haven’t gone from WSers to class just because they were beaten by Aus. And England haven’t become poor because they lost to 2 sides they beat the previous 2 meetings. I think both teams are pretty much where they were last 6N – and I expect similar results: England 2nd, Sco/Italy fighting out last place. Maybe with just Ire going off the boil and swapping places with Wales. Just MO.

Last year the team were very inexperienced with loads of players with only a handful of caps. This year we have the same team but the players are a year older and instead of 3 or 4 caps they now have 20. The coach has had time to get the team properly prepared. Last 6N we blew 3 games we could have and maybe should have won. That extra years experience and the familiarity that brings along with a coach who has had time to prepare should make a difference - perhaps the differnce between wining those close games and losing them

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Hmm I admit I can’t speak in depth about the current Scotland, but last 6N they lost every game. I’m afraid they have to improve hugely just to gain some parity with the other sides. Can’t say I really saw that in the RWC except for 1 game. We’ll see I guess. Home advantage is significant.

As for England – it’s probably pretty much the same side as last 6N: a Robshaw, Haskell, Billy BR for a Wood/Haskell, Robshaw, Billy one, and a Ford, Farrell combo for a Ford, Barritt one. The 2 best hookers are in the 23. And the ripping-up Eddie has selected a cool-hand SL side. More of the same I’d say.  Maybe with the dubious advantage of unleashing the beast in Dylan which could go either way.

Either side can win a one-off game true, but I think the table will end up pretty similar to last year.

Our depth is shocking, but our 1st XXIII are formidable IMO. Behind them in certain positions like Wing we have Lamont. However we have been unfortunate with both Maitland and Visser picking up injuries.

beshocked wrote: Even in that game vs Wales, Haskell wasn't perfect, he ran into a post and should had perhaps helped Ford and May more for Faletau's try. Though saying that yes he was still decent.

He had a cracking game against Wales, yet you feel the need to point out a couple of negatives while relegating the positives to an after-comment.

beshocked wrote: You are right utilising a players' strengths is important and I agree that Lancaster probably didn't get the best out of his players but there is no guarantee that EJ can.

This is sport, there are no guarantees and it would be pretty boring if there were. Are you suggesting that EJ is wrong to try Haskell as a 7 because there are no guarantees it will work? Maybe he shouldn't bother giving Itoje game time, unless EJ can guarantee it will be a success?

Hoonercat wrote:

beshocked wrote: Even in that game vs Wales, Haskell wasn't perfect, he ran into a post and should had perhaps helped Ford and May more for Faletau's try. Though saying that yes he was still decent.

He had a cracking game against Wales, yet you feel the need to point out a couple of negatives while relegating the positives to an after-comment.

beshocked wrote: You are right utilising a players' strengths is important and I agree that Lancaster probably didn't get the best out of his players but there is no guarantee that EJ can.

This is sport, there are no guarantees and it would be pretty boring if there were. Are you suggesting that EJ is wrong to try Haskell as a 7 because there are no guarantees it will work? Maybe he shouldn't bother giving Itoje game time, unless EJ can guarantee it will be a success?

You wouldn't shoehorn him in out of position though would you? Haskell is best deployed at number 8 and at a push a 6. Why someone like Kvesic hasn't been picked at 7 is a mystery. Haskell for me is a big oaf of a man but does he have the pace to be a link man for the backs and an effective breakdown operator for the forwards?

6. Robshaw
7. Kvesic
8. Vunipola

That's a devastating backrow.

It's a stop gap isn't it. The sort of balance has worked well before. We're all just hoping Haskell has 3 or 4 good games on the trot, which has always been what we've been wanting for 50 odd caps.

We'll see how Clifford does off the bench

Its the type of back row he employed in Japan.

Didn't they use a big guy rather than a "fetcher"