England Squad Named

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SQUAD IN FULL

Here it is: Eddie Jones first squad as England head coach.

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) *injury replacement for Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby) *injury replacement for Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens)

Backs

Chris Ashton (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Ollie Devoto (Bath Rugby) *injury replacement for Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Alex Goode (Saracens), Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs) *injury replacement for Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Per Sky

Sgt_Pooly wrote:No dramas with Hartley. He's not in great nick but a definite starter when playing well.

No drama.... except for gouging,punching,biting ,elbowing, swearing at refs and headbutting.

Great role model for young players. Great representative for England captain.

Why pick a captain whose in form and has a spotless disciplinary record when you can pick a captain who is "edgy" and not in form?



Of course it can only get better......

It's only a matter of time before Farrell wears the 12 shirt vs Scotland and Haskell starts at 7.

Why not follow up a bad decision with two more? Nothing wrong with that....


Silly me, thinking naively that Eddie Jones would make a sensible choice as captain. Different management, same mistakes it seems....

I'd go with:

Vuinipola George Cole
Launchbury Kruis
Robshaw Vuinipola Haskell

Care Farrell
Roko ? Daly Ashton
Brown

Jesus wept love the way some have already decided mr Jones' new dawn is already over.
How about you at least let him get the lads through a game before you decide he's the worst coach ever
You do make me chuckle

As I said, no issues with Hartley. He's clearly our best hooker when on form and had a mental toughness, I think it's a great call.

You guys should be happy. All it means is that Tom Youngs is denied game time and that should be viewed as a good thing. That and Robshaw is kept away from having to think on his feet... "2 points behind, penalty in front of the posts.... kick to the corner please ref".

Beshocked is your other hobby amarure dramatics?

fa0019 wrote:You guys should be happy. All it means is that Tom Youngs is denied game time and that should be viewed as a good thing. That and Robshaw is kept away from having to think on his feet... "2 points behind, penalty in front of the posts.... kick to the corner please ref".

I'm all over that Tom Youngs comment!

emontagu wrote:I can see Hartley proving a lot of people wrong this six nations. He performs best when under media scrutiny, its when he's got no pressure on him to focus his temperament that he can backfire.

Very true it's not like he got red carded and suspended in a AP final, which also meant that he was dropped from the lions.

Oh wait.

On 2nd thoughts I like it, everyone hates us/siege attitude is just what England need at the moment and by picking Hartley Jones has guaranteed that will happen.

To be fair a lot of people are now starting to agree with Lancasters version of whiter than white players. there's always someone who wants something else.

No 7&1/2 wrote:To be fair a lot of people are now starting to agree with Lancasters version of whiter than white players. there's always someone who wants something else.

In South Africa, players can do what they want... as long as they're playing well. Play badly or worse (lose) and your rights to be yourself/let your hair down/be an unpleasant arrogant a** are taken away.

carpet baboon to be honest I am not surprised you are gloating, your beloved thug has been made captain.

I don't think it's a good start to a tenure to step backwards. As an England fan I want to be optimistic but how can when I have no faith in Eddie Jones' selection as captain.

I believe in picking players on merit.

Even if you discount Hartley's thuggery, he's still not the best performing hooker in England at the moment. I would even suggest he hasn't played well for England for over a year.

no 7 & 1/2 you talk about whiter than white with Lancaster. Did you see the atrocious penalty count - England vs Ireland? Haskell's YC vs France, Farrell's YC vs Australia.

It's about getting the right balance. Strong but not too aggressive, decisive but not arrogant, keeping on the right side of the law.

Mixed feelings about Hartley.

I rate him highly on form...but fair to say George is the best candidate.

But I think all England fans should wait and see the lineup when its announced and how they actually perform on the pitch v Scotland, before the witch hunt on Eddie Jones begins...

Hartley confirmed as skipper at least knocks another question mark of the make-up of the pack...

Mako once again looked strong at the weekend, although this time from the bench. He will more than likely start with Marler on the bench. Mullan is looking solid as ever too and wouldn't let anyone down if given a go. We're well stocked at LH.

Mako, Hartley, Cole, Launchbury, Kruis, Robshaw, Haskell/Kvesic, Billy

Replacements: George, Marler, Hill, Itoje, Clifford

On the 7 shirt I really can't see Haskell starting there. After all that Jones said in the RWC about England needed a 'real' openside I'd be very surprised if he actually just switched the numbers on their backs.

Heading to Murrayfield I think he will have Clifford on the bench to cover across the back row for when things break up later on. I would still put my money on Kvesic starting. He makes a load of tackles and offers a strong breakdown presence, i.e. he does what Haskell would be asked to do at 7 but does it better.

Welly wrote:

emontagu wrote:I can see Hartley proving a lot of people wrong this six nations. He performs best when under media scrutiny, its when he's got no pressure on him to focus his temperament that he can backfire.

Very true it's not like he got red carded and suspended in a AP final, which also meant that he was dropped from the lions.

Oh wait.

Exactly my point, with no outside force to focus his temperament he can step over the mark.

For the 6 nations he's got the media highlighting his discipline issues and Jones knows this will be enough to keep him level headed.

As I said I can see him proving a lot of people wrong.

He won't be captain come the RWC2019 though. Probably the best man for the job but its an interim posting surely. A bit like Jean De Villiers post RWC2011 until the genuine captain takes his place.... oh wait.

Who is making the 'Jones Out' thread?

the lineup will be for Scotland:

1) Vunipola,
2) Hartley
3) Cole
4) Launhcbury
5) Itojie/Lawes
6) Robshaw
7) Haskell
8) Clifford/Vunipola
9) Youngs
10) Ford
11) Watson
12) Farrell
13) JJ
14) Nowell
15) Brown

Geordiefalcon well he's discounted George from starting against Scotland already. It can only get worse.

It's not a good start. I think it's a poor decision, let's hope he doesn't compound it with more.

Scottrf wrote:Who is making the 'Jones Out' thread?

Probably Tom Youngs' mum.

Also interesting to see that Mike Brown is apparently front runner to be picked by Jones as vice-captain.

He sure is going all out to bring some fire and on the edge aggression back to the side.

Jesus you don't half whinge BS

beshocked wrote:carpet baboon to be honest I am not surprised you are gloating, your beloved thug has been made captain.

I don't think it's a good start to a tenure to step backwards. As an England fan I want to be optimistic but how can when I have no faith in Eddie Jones' selection as captain.

I believe in picking players on merit.

Even if you discount Hartley's thuggery, he's still not the best performing hooker in England at the moment. I would even suggest he hasn't played well for England for over a year.

no 7 & 1/2 you talk about whiter than white with Lancaster. Did you see the atrocious penalty count - England vs Ireland? Haskell's YC vs France, Farrell's YC vs Australia.

It's about getting the right balance. Strong but not too aggressive, decisive but not arrogant, keeping on the right side of the law.

was talking about that edge. decision making is infuriating when you're buried under niggly pens. Most are picking Cole at tighthead despite being one of the worst in this area though.

Jones has just described Robshaw as 'easily the best 6 in England'

That's another position sewn up then

emontagu wrote:

beshocked wrote:Why oh why can't international coaches just make intelligent decisions?

If there's one thing EJ isn't it's unintelligent.

He means "Why oh why can't international coaches just make the decisions I want them to because I'm an intelligent person"

king_carlos wrote:Also interesting to see that Mike Brown is apparently front runner to be picked by Jones as vice-captain.

He sure is going all out to bring some fire and on the edge aggression back to the side.

Good decision.

beshocked wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:No dramas with Hartley. He's not in great nick but a definite starter when playing well.

No drama.... except for gouging,punching,biting ,elbowing, swearing at refs and headbutting.

Great role model for young players.  Great representative for England captain.

Why pick a captain whose in form and has a spotless disciplinary record when you can pick a captain who is "edgy" and not in form?



Of course it can only get better......

It's only a matter of time before Farrell wears the 12 shirt vs Scotland and Haskell starts at 7.

Why not follow up a bad decision with two more? Nothing wrong with that....


Silly me, thinking naively that Eddie Jones would make a sensible choice as captain. Different management, same mistakes it seems....

Same mistakes    you silly beggar.

Headmaster Bomber's mistakes included so we got lectured, dropping some good players who had been naughty boys....Hartley being one.
Now apparently including the naughty boys is the same mistake as excluding the naughty boys. Wot a larf   of a criticism.

beshocked wrote:Geordiefalcon well he's discounted George from starting against Scotland already. It can only get worse.

It's not a good start. I think it's a poor decision, let's hope he doesn't compound it with more.

Don't forget Hartley has been injured - rib and then concussion. If he's fit then he'll be champion.

If hes not...George will start.

Ineresting hearing the thoughts of James Haskell and Grayson. His captaincy ability seems absolutely top class from what they were saying.

And Haskell....
And one of Hartley's victims - Wasps captain James Haskell - said he "could not care less" about previous indiscretions and has also backed "abrasive" Hartley as someone who will "command respect".

"There might be a few people with stiff collars who will get upset, but that's the nature of the game," said Haskell. "You live and die by the sword.

"He'll lead by example and his passion for the shirt is renowned."

"You'll get the staunch disciplinarians saying, 'what on earth are we doing?' They will use the word thug. People who use the word thug have never met Dylan.

Sgt Pooly you are right. I should stop complaining, the poor decision has been made. Nothing I can do.

No 7 & 1/2 I don't think I'll understand what you mean by "edge" because personally that would suggest that the player has a little devil on their shoulder they manage to keep in check.

gregortree I was never against dropping Hartley.

Same mistake I am suggesting is picking a hooker who is not in form ahead of others, in the case of Lancaster it was Webber, now it's Hartley.

I can understand perhaps having Hartley in the squad but as Eddie Jones' most valuable and important player? No, sorry don't agree.

Well hammerofthunor you could put it that way if you'd like.

For starters I'm not gloating, but I will give you time to pick your toys up and put them back then maybe we can have an adult conversation

Sgt_Pooly wrote:As I said, no issues with Hartley. He's clearly our best hooker when on form and had a mental toughness, I think it's a great call.

When on form, which he isn't.

nathan wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:As I said, no issues with Hartley. He's clearly our best hooker when on form and had a mental toughness, I think it's a great call.

When on form, which he isn't.

Kind of covered that.

"People who use the word thug have never met Dylan."

Gotta say, I've met him a few times and he was a gent. But I have heard the opposite too.

Carpet baboon how witty of you. To be honest is there much more to say?

I've already said so much on the topic. I think I've made my opinion awfully loud and clear.

Geordiefalcon Haskell isn't the brightest bulb in the closet though is he? Also Grayson has vested interest. Are their opinions that surprising?

It's a poor decision because you don't agree with it, whenever you don't agree it's a poor decision.

The truth is, it's far from a poor decision if you agree with it or not.

Is Wayne Barnes refereeing any of our 6 Nations matches?

Well Lancaster went with whiter than white players we lost edge, we lost niggle and he was criticised for the way we went about things. People have expressed the thought that this was summed up with the choice of captain who wasn't inspiring taking the mick out of his speech impediment at the time. Think this signals Jones wants aggression but playing the right side of the line, or just past it if you can get away with it. I'm not bothered by hartley getting picked, he's a good player and a good captain. george comes on and we will hopefully gain a great deal and pull away. Bit like your example of bringing on Brits, great option. If George comes on and is miles better than Hartley does anyone really think he's not going to get a chance to start?

But he knows Hartley better than you or I beshocked?

Beshocked I wasn't being witty,I was genuinely giving you time to compose yourself, you seemed to loose control of your emotions there, and as discussed that can't be good

I'd go back to the argument that 99.9% of picks for England aren't really that shocking or controversial as we have a lot of good players. George is the form hooker but is anyone expecting Hartley to be dire? Repeat through team.

Jones may not name our own ideal lineup but he's hardly c***ing up.

carpet baboon wrote:Beshocked I wasn't being witty,I was genuinely giving you time to compose yourself, you seemed to loose control of your emotions there, and as discussed that can't be good

You'll get used to it.

I'll hold judgment until after the Scotland game.

Yes Sgt Pooly. It's because most of the time I am proved to be correct.

Not all the time of course but mostly.

Geordiefalcon yes I am sure he does but he's just one player in the England squad.

no 7 & 1/2 it's a kick in the teeth for George. He'll probably take it in his stride like he did Hartley's headbutt but still it's an unnecessary blow.

Why on earth does George have to keep on having to prove himself off the bench when he's the in form hooker? Just need to pick him to start.


Just feel like England raise my expectations, just to dash them gleefully.

I should probably take more of a detached view to the England selection as it generally frustates me.

I would also say that this really is only for the 6n...9 weeks.

To get the ball rolling he has picked an experience and successful captain. And an experienced good player with the skill set for his position.

After that things may well be different ( The summer tour etc).

beshocked wrote:Yes Sgt Pooly. It's because most of the time I am proved to be correct.

Not all the time of course but mostly.

Geordiefalcon yes I am sure he does but he's just one player in the England squad.

no 7 & 1/2 it's a kick in the teeth for George. He'll probably take it in his stride like he did Hartley's headbutt but still it's an unnecessary blow.

Why on earth does George have to keep on having to prove himself off the bench when he's the in form hooker? Just need to pick him to start.


Just feel like England raise my expectations, just to dash them gleefully.

I should probably take more of a detached view to the England selection as it generally frustates me.

Anyone would think Hartley had headbutted your favourite aunt, not a professional rugby player who has probably been hit much harder and hit others much harder himself 

Jamie is a big boy beshocked, what you keep banging on about as a vicious headbutt, he probably views as a little tickle

What I saw at the weekend George can't throw straight. at least Hartley can do a basic skill right.

Tighthead nice attempt at a wum. Better luck next time.

Bambam you are right, George was barely phased by it. Hopefully he will be barely phased by this new obstacle in his way.

Long way to go before that first 6N's game. Plenty of things could happen in between.

George will get his chance, if not in this 6N's then definitely in the summer tour

Not a wum beshocked just my opinion, George can't throw straight he also cost his team a try by not passing the ball, hardly the form hooker in the country!

yappysnap wrote:Long way to go before that first 6N's game. Plenty of things could happen in between.

George will get his chance, if not in this 6N's then definitely in the summer tour

Its next weekend Yappy