Ulster 2015/2016 Part 2

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Continue your discussion of all things Ulster here.

Hopefully missing out on those bonus points doesn't hurt us again this season, we still have to play the 3 teams behind us plus Glasgow and Ospreys who all will probably have something still to play for

Notch wrote:I know lots of people are saying McCloskey isn't getting a look in for Ireland, but I think it's telling he hasn't been  involved with Ulster for the last few games. Normally thats because he's either not been released or because he's been spending all his time in the Ireland training camp so he's not au fait with the Ulster calls.

Right now Payne is in a race to be fit and I think if Payne isn't fit McCloskey might start. If Payne is fit, I doubt Schmidt will change it. But I'm expecting McCloskey to get his first cap before the end of the Six Nations.

He started the last game and came off the bench at the same time as Paddy in the one before that Notch! It is interesting that he's nowhere to be found this week though.

JmD wrote:He started the last game and came off the bench at the same time as Paddy in the one before that Notch! It is interesting that he's nowhere to be found this week though.

You're right. I think I'm getting confused because he's come in a few times after being released very late and not being named in the initial team announcement. Maybe he will replace Arnold on Sunday. I wouldn't be surprised if he's been in camp with the first team all week mind you. Thats a good sign.

Any new news on a backrow from Leinster? Can it be Conan please. He was emence today against Cardiff

He would be some signing alright. He wouldn't be a mere backup player either - he would be pushing for a starting place and also hoping to challenge for the Ireland team. I would be genuinely shocked if he left Leinster though as he is second only to Heaslip (who is over 30 and with Ireland a lot during the season).

I know but I'm allowed to dream

carpet baboon wrote:Any new news on a backrow from Leinster? Can it be Conan please. He was emence today against Cardiff

Hope it happens but I am started to get very sceptical.

We have along history of failing to persuade Dublin lads up here - McLaughlin, McFadden, Conway.
Marsh has re signed for Leinster so that one is looking very unlikely.

I repeat my comment earlier have any players moved between the three traditionally senior provinces under Nucifora watch ?
I can't think of any.

Arnold doesn't count he had nothing to do with that - Munster followed correct procedure and asked us if they could talk to him and we said yes.

In fact the only thing Nucifora has done has made a pigs ear of negotiations with Marty Moore which means Ireland have lost him - the man is a total waster of space.

Some contract updates - these are the people who are definitely up for contract renew this year

Ian Humphreys
Luke Marshall
Ricky Lutton
Ruaidhrí Murphy
Willie Faloon
Bronson Ross

These are the ones I think are but I am not 100%

Peter Browne
Paul Rowley
Sam Windsor
Conor Joyce

These are the ones I do not think are but maybe

Clive Ross
Rory Scholes
Sean Reidy

Don't worry about Luke Marshall he is 100% certain to stay
Other than him not much to get anxious about in the first two groups
I'd keep Lutton and Browne and let the rest go
There is a tendency to keep players in specialist positions - Front Row and Half Back so would not be surprised if some of them are retained.
My view is on that basis Murphy could stay as 4th LH, Ross could stay as 4th TH but with Trenier and Simpson I wouldn't bother
Windsor or Humphreys could stay at 10 and Rowley could stay at 9 - but again I wouldn't. I would randomly select an IQ 9 and 10 from England instead - they simply cant be any worse.

geoff999rugby wrote:In fact the only thing Nucifora has done has made a pigs ear of negotiations with Marty Moore which means Ireland have lost him - the man is a total waster of space.

By all accounts David Nucifora is a man with poor peoples skills in a job that is entirely about forging relationships with players and making them feel wanted. I gave him a fair chance like I try to do with all new coaches, signings and appointments and I may yet change my mind on him. But I'm beginning to see why David Humphreys decided to feck off to England the longer Nucifora is in post.

Sure Humphreys can definitely come across as a bit of a smooth talker, a bit of a salesman type, but thats what you need in contract negotiations with high-profile athletes sometimes.

geoff999rugby wrote:Some contract updates - these are the people who are definitely up for contract renew this year

Ian Humphreys
Luke Marshall
Ricky Lutton
Ruaidhrí Murphy
Willie Faloon
Bronson Ross

These are the ones I think are but I am not 100%

Peter Browne
Paul Rowley
Sam Windsor
Conor Joyce

These are the ones I do not think are but maybe

Clive Ross
Rory Scholes
Sean Reidy

Don't worry about Luke Marshall he is 100% certain to stay
Other than him not much to get anxious about in the first two groups
I'd keep Lutton and Browne and let the rest go
There is a tendency to keep players in specialist positions - Front Row and Half Back so would not be surprised if some of them are retained.
My view is on that basis Murphy could stay as 4th LH, Ross could stay as 4th TH but with Trenier and Simpson I wouldn't bother
Windsor or Humphreys could stay at 10 and Rowley could stay at 9 - but again I wouldn't. I would randomly select an IQ 9 and 10 from England instead - they simply cant be any worse.

Think I agree with all those opinions. I like Lutton as a sub, and Browne looks perfectly Pro12 standard when he's in a 1/2 decent team.

Is there any chance of getting Paddy McAllister back? Would mean we could ditch Murphy. I'd also gamble on anyone else for 9 and 10. Solid servant to the province Humphreys but his time is up. I'd say we can gamble on 4th choice players for the Pro12 and push for medical transfers if we found ourselves competing in Europe. Better to take on a punt on a player who might make the grade, rather than persist with players who have had the chance and not made it.

Notch wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:In fact the only thing Nucifora has done has made a pigs ear of negotiations with Marty Moore which means Ireland have lost him - the man is a total waster of space.

By all accounts David Nucifora is a man with poor peoples skills in a job that is entirely about forging relationships with players and making them feel wanted. I gave him a fair chance like I try to do with all new coaches, signings and appointments and I may yet change my mind on him. But I'm beginning to see why David Humphreys decided to feck off to England the longer Nucifora is in post.

Sure Humphreys can definitely come across as a bit of a smooth talker, a bit of a salesman type, but thats what you need in contract negotiations with high-profile athletes sometimes.

The Marty Moore deal remains an open wound. That he's tried to get out of the Wasps contract shows that there was a deal to be done, we just failed to make it happen. We've lost a seriously good player as a result in a position that Ireland have traditional had very little depth. You can argue Nucifora's got a hard job, but he's dropped the ball there.

He's most definitely got a hard job and he's most definitely dropped the ball. I mean, most of the time when a player leaves you wonder; could we have done a deal? Everyone knows we could do a deal because we did. It was too late, but not too little.

Seeing the way our scrum is being bullied at the moment is just rubbing salt in the wound. You wouldn't think looking at the options behind Moore that we were in any position to be treating a young promising tight head as if he needed us more than we needed him!

Also, got to wonder why Schmidt was only made part of the negotiations after the IRFU hit the panic button. Schmidt is a guy the players like and trust, especially the Leinster guys for obvious reasons. Even if he does get a short-term deal if you have the national coach telling you you've got a big future ahead of you if you stay you might be more inclined to take that deal. What relationship does he have with Nucifora?

Bad start. Not the best piece of defending by Cave but to be honest he was stretched more than he should have been. Poor defence all around.

One of the best backline moves I have seen from this team! Excellent!

Another dodgy TMO decision at Ulster again, that was NOT a try.

LordDowlais wrote:Another dodgy TMO decision at Ulster again, that was NOT a try.

Make a thread about it and moan then for goodness sake. Leave this thread alone.

Nothing wrong with the try. In control and not in touch. Cracking game

Been enjoying this game. You have to say that King made a mistake there for the Scarlets, had he have gone to ground he surely would have scored.

Quality match

The midfield are having some serious issues in defence. The Scarlets are toying with us in that area. Very narrow and some poor reads.

Poor from Henry, really poor when under the cosh. Cant be sure but I thought that Olding brought DTH into touch before the penalty.

It is time to bring on Pienaar.

Awful decision to go shortside, stockdale was never going to get in, Ulster creating their own downfall here with bad decisions, awful midfield defence and poor execution. Ref not helping things I don't think he's missing lots of vital things.

eirebilly wrote:Been enjoying this game. You have to say that King made a mistake there for the Scarlets, had he have gone to ground he surely would have scored.

Quality match

Agree, this is a good game. It usually is when these two play one another. I'm just gutted there haven't been any of the commonplace controversial calls .

Paddy Jackson has been so controlling today, been very impressed with his performance. I have also been impressed with Justin Marshal's performance but its good to have Ruan on.

Not sure about continually going for the corner this early though.

Finally the points taken.

Not a bad kicker these days is Jackson

Ulster don't deserve to win this with such poor execution

Are Ulster going to sell Piatau to Wasps then? They don't really need him and the money could be well spent elsewhere. I'd recruit some quality back up for Jackson.

Excellent from the Scarlet's, soaked up the Ulster pressure and now really should see out the game.

This ref hasn't a clue

They'll take any win, even a 1 point win at Kingspan.

So frustrating.

Well thats that then. Congratulations to Scarlets, you put in a real hard nose performance there and deserved to win that. Ulster were so poor with decision making and execution really. Defence in the middle of the park from Ulster was far to narrow and they never really learned from any of the mistakes they were making. On the upper hand I think Jackson at least looked good and Gilroys feet are just awesome.

Good game I thought, some strange decisions but they went for and against both sides.

Not an easy place to come away with a win but fair play to Scarlet's they were on the back foot for most of the second half but held on for the win.

LordDowlais wrote:Another dodgy TMO decision at Ulster again, that was NOT a try.

Go away and write a thread about it you half-witted waste of flesh.

Pete please do not abuse other posters. Let's apply the golden rule. If you had a problem with a decision and then someone said that to you, you would not be happy at all. In this case it's better to bite your tongue.

Well played Scarlets. We fell off to many tackles and didn't make the right decision in there 22. Frustrating indeed.

Scarlets just looked amazing in offence and defencively unbelievable so well worth the win, Ulster need improvments all over the park but were worth the bonus point. An enjoyable if frustrating match. Well done Scarlets.

Pete330v2 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Another dodgy TMO decision at Ulster again, that was NOT a try.

Go away and write a thread about it you half-witted waste of flesh.

He is annoying but is there a need for the second bit? Just a bit extreme.

That has to be the most unexpected win for us this season, honestly thought we would get put to the sword out there. Really good to see both teams trying to move the ball around the park to.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Another dodgy TMO decision at Ulster again, that was NOT a try.

Go away and write a thread about it you half-witted waste of flesh.

He is annoying but is there a need for the second bit? Just a bit extreme.

Nope, an accurate decription of the tool. Him and his sidekick chunky have been ruining this forum for too long, thankfully chunky seems to have had his laptop removed by his carer.

Is it collect 10 crisp packets to become an official? How does a grown man not understand that if the flag is tilted into the in-goal area, and the ball goes out over the top of the flag, it's touch in goal?

Ulster's defence wasn't good enough. Cave had a shocking game, defended too narrow the whole time and kept letting the long ball get outside him. Paul Marshall is a liability and needs to be put out to pasture. Luke Marshall played out of his skin but it wasn't enough. Our pack and outside backs are too soft.

Talking like that gives more weight to their comments when they describe the Ulster fanbase as thugs or whatever. You are playing right into their hands and giving them the reaction they are looking for.

Pack was underpowered.
We can't rely on Paul Marshall in a tight game
Darren Cave barely looked pro 12 level today

We went too far away though, just better decisions and cutting down errors

I actually thought that Paul Marshall put in a decent shift today...

Doesn't help us at the O's but enjoyed the game and well done to the Scarlets.What a pair Parkes and King are.Where's Gilroy in the Irish 1st XV pecking order because he's exciting.Only a thought but Ulster packs on a Friday night seem more fiery than they were today.

Pete330v2 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Another dodgy TMO decision at Ulster again, that was NOT a try.

Go away and write a thread about it you half-witted waste of flesh.

He is annoying but is there a need for the second bit? Just a bit extreme.

Nope, an accurate decription of the tool. Him and his sidekick chunky have been ruining this forum for too long, thankfully chunky seems to have had his laptop removed by his carer.

Just ignore them mate. They want a reaction. Everyone could see it was a try.

If you want dodgy, look no further than giving a lineout for the ball going dead in goal. Out of interest why should it have been a 22 and not back for a scrum

exile jack wrote:Doesn't help us at the O's but enjoyed the game and well done to the Scarlets.What a pair Parkes and King are.Where's Gilroy in the Irish 1st XV pecking order because he's exciting.Only a thought but Ulster packs on a Friday night seem more fiery than they were today.

Sadly, miles behind wingers like Dave Kearney...

For those who already have or may go on to dis Paul Marshall, the truth is, his mistakes tonight did not (directly) lead to us conceding, however his moments of magic where integral to us still being in the game in the last quarter.

The blame for the game lays at many people's doors before it comes to him. I actually admire how he never goes into his shell despite being aware of the severe criticism.

eirebilly wrote:I actually thought that Paul Marshall put in a decent shift today...

The hospital pass to Stockdale when he was up against 3 defenders, dropping the ball in their 22 when we had the overlap, the nonsensical chip kick that got charged down. Yes he made that one break, but it's not enough when he can't get the basics right.

Well that's approaching what I'd call "Peak Ulster".

Well done Scarlets, lively in attack.

Can we get our captains some rugby tuition? Do we have anyone who teaches our lads basic tactical awareness? I ask because sometimes we make decisions which if repeated 100 times, everyone one of the 100 times I would never have done what Ulster decide to do. This game it was the decision to kick to the corner and maul when we were down to 7 in the forwards from Henry's yellow. Playing in the areas where they have a numeric advantage. That's dumb. Really, really dumb.

Now that's not Jackson specifically, it's an Ulster thing. There was a game about a month ago at Ravenhill where, I can't remember the offense, but we had the option of a kick on the edge of our 22 or a scrum. This was up the Main Stand / Aquinas End. Our scrum had been mashed on the previous 3 occasions and inexplicably Best opts for another scrum. We dutifully lose the scrum, penalty to the opposition and we're down 3 points. For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone, at any time, for any reason would have opted for a scrum there.

We do it all the time with basic errors of decision making.

Lot of Ulster fans been saying we should have more players in the Ireland XV. After watching that it's hard to agree. That was so much worse than any Ireland display in recent memory. Ireland have played some awful rugby in the past few years, but I've never seen them come off the pitch and thought they didn't put the effort in.

Ireland can play Poopie and lose and I'll still back them up because I believe every player desperately wants to win. Ulster can play well and score some good tries and lose, but that defeat has been coming for weeks and those players simply did not want to win that game enough. They were not winning to go the extra mile. There was not enough hunger, or desire or sheer bloody minded determination.

Even if we won, like last week, I still couldn't take many positives from that. I'm sorry. I can live with players making mistakes but I can't live with players not working their socks off to do what it takes to win the big games. We gifted Glasgow a losing bonus point, we gifted Scarlets a win- we have no god-given right to win games and trophies. Say we make the playoffs- it's not certain we will, but say we rediscover our form and get a home semi-final. Do you think Glasgow or Scarlets have any fear of coming to Ravenhill now after the past few weeks? Teams in this league know you can come to Ravenhill and not play all that well and still leave with the points. Munster did it, Scarlets did it- these teams aren't even the top tier sides like Glasgow, Ospreys or Leinster who will be the real dangers in the playoffs. Is that acceptable for Ulster Rugby as organisation? And if its not acceptable why are players walking to set pieces with their hands on their hips, looking at the sky, waiting for someone else to take responsibility?

Lot of people say Schmidt doesn't pick as many Ulster players as they think deserve it because he has his blue-tinted glasses on. Maybe he just doesn't like players who are willing to settle for being second best.