6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March

by **George Carlin** Sat 05 Mar 2016, 5:48 pm

First topic message reminder :

6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March - Page 18 Englan11

6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March - Page 18 Wales10

ENGLAND v WALES
12 March 2016
KO: 16:00 GMT
Twickenham, London

Live on ITV, RTE, SC4, FR2, DMAX / BBC (H)

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

119 Played 119
53 Won 54
12 Drawn 12
54 Lost 53
1,428 Points 1,371

B. Recent Form

26 September 2015: Twickenham, London
25 – 28 to Wales
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A

6 February 2015: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
16 – 21 to England
2015 Six Nations

9 March 2014: Twickenham Stadium, London
29 – 18 to England
2014 Six Nations

16 March 2013: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
30 – 3 to Wales
2013 Six Nations

25 February 2012: Twickenham Stadium, London
12 – 19 to Wales
2012 Six Nations

13 August 2011: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 9 to Wales
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test

6 August 2011: Twickenham, London
23 – 19 to England
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test

C. Teams

ENGLAND
6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March - Page 18 Carygr10

6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March - Page 18 Carygr10

[tbc]

WALES
6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March - Page 18 Burton10

[tbc]

by mikey_dragon Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:01 pm

Congrats England.

by nathan Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:01 pm

Never Right Wales off

by bedfordwelsh Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:01 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
wales606 wrote:Wales actually played for about 10 minutes of that game

True.

Congrats England. Well deserved. Big questions have to be asked about our coaching team after that, that should've been asked before today.

I agree but feel they will use the scoreline to gloss over the obvious failings in our coaching team and some of the selection policies.

by nathan Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:01 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Congrats England.

by sad_gimp Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:02 pm

It's been a while.....good to be back winning!

12 months of the Welsh WUMs crying about the ref though. You guys were just awful for 70 minutes, suck it up.

by gog1992 Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:02 pm

I think England just got tired and complacent. We would never have scored those tries in the first half. Let's not take the gloss off their victory. Well done England. Wales management need to look at themselves as well as the players.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:02 pm

That has to be one of the easiest MOTM decisions Shane will have to make.

by majesticimperialman Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:02 pm

What a come back by Wales. Very close in the end But too little too late.

A great great win for England. But a very hard luck for Wales for comng back the way at the very end.

A great charge down for Biggar to get Wales first try.

Wales looked very different after Sam Warburton went off, seemed to come alive, play wi9th more widthh then the first half.

England must go forward now Tripple crown is in the bag GS is a must win next week end.

by Seagultaf Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:02 pm

Wales were rubbish in the first half, and not much better for the third quarter. Then England just blew up!

Why didn't the ref go upstairs for the North disallowed try, I thought that it came off an English arm, and also he didn't look in touch at the end and the receiving player was through unopposed.

I expect Francis to be cited and banned, very reckless play. Not as bad as Brown against England but still a red card offence.

by Pot Hale Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:03 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Well England were lucky in the end. Another couple of minutes... Who knows.

Well done England. Triple Crown Winners.

Now all we need is for France to put 20 points on Scotland tomorrow to make the final round match interesting.

If they play like that then France won't live with you no matter what the result tomorrow.

Err ... I don't 'play' for England. Smile

by bedfordwelsh Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:03 pm

mid_gen wrote:It's been a while.....good to be back winning!

12 months of the Welsh WUMs crying about the ref though. You guys were just awful for 70 minutes, suck it up.

Yep, players have to look at themselves as do the coaches. On that 70 minute performance it wouldn't have mattered who was reffing

by lostinwales Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:04 pm

England looking very tired at the end after dominating for so much of the match. Must be more to come. Wales are not going away either.

by True Raven Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:04 pm

mid_gen wrote:It's been a while.....good to be back winning!

12 months of the Welsh WUMs crying about the ref though. You guys were just awful for 70 minutes, suck it up.

The one guy who's moaning about the ref is Scottish....

Be humble in victory

by gregortree Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:04 pm

Mikey...TY gracious
I know we have jousted on here in the past
but great fightback by Wales.
Well done on making a great match of it.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:05 pm

lostinwales wrote:England looking very tired at the end after dominating for so much of the match. Must be more to come. Wales are not going away either.

We are not going anywhere either on that first 70 minute performance

by VinceWLB Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:05 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:That has to be one of the easiest MOTM decisions Shane will have to make.

It could have been a premature ejaculation as Itoje just got penalised for playing the ball off his feet (what he has been doing all game btw) which could have been very costly for England.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:06 pm

Could of should of etc etc etc

by JDizzle Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:06 pm

Joubert was consistent on the not rolling away penalties. I felt he could have allowed a second more a couple of times, but I am Welsh! At least he stuck to it through out the game. The scrum penalties went against whomever he caught cheating at that particular time, both teams were at it.

At the end of the day, Wales were crap for the vast majority of the game and didn't deserve to get that close. They looked so much better when they just seemed to say Love sacks to it and thought caution to the wind in the last 15 or so. Whether that was just because England has taken their foot off the gas and were in 'defend a lead' mode or not is a different matter.

by TightHEAD Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:06 pm

Never in doubt. Preistland was awesome Biggar has to go

by Coleman Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:07 pm

Congrats England, part of me thinks we didn't turn up for 65 mins. The other part of me thinks you were streets ahead and you got tired (i do think we looked fitter). Great game, heart was racing at the end. Please forgive me for supporting France next weekend.

by Shifty Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:07 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
wales606 wrote:Wales actually played for about 10 minutes of that game

True.

Congrats England. Well deserved. Big questions have to be asked about our coaching team after that, that should've been asked before today.

I don't agree Risca, the Wales coaching team are clearly trying to evolve the Welsh game. Look how many games we lost in the last minute or two against the Southern Hemisphere teams over the last few years. Looking at the games this season against Ireland, Scotland and England, you can clearly see Wales are conserving their energy for the final stages of the game when the opposition are tired they are trying to run rampant.
What is clear is that decent teams can score tries against Wales and it's touch and go whether Wales can fight back. We failed against Ireland, and again against England.
I feel sorry for Italy next week, those Welsh boys are going to get savaged and Italy's moral will be rock bottom for that trip to Cardiff.

by glamorganalun Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:08 pm

Wales showed what can be done when you stop kicking the dam ball away.

It was funny at the end when the camera looked at the England bench!

Well done Rngland.

by VinceWLB Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:08 pm

JDizzle wrote: Whether that was just because England has taken their foot off the gas and were in 'defend a lead' mode or not is a different matter.

You don't get your foot of the pedal in a game like this. English players were out of their feet at the end of the game.

by **RiscaGame** Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:09 pm

Shifty wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
wales606 wrote:Wales actually played for about 10 minutes of that game

True.

Congrats England. Well deserved. Big questions have to be asked about our coaching team after that, that should've been asked before today.

I don't agree Risca, the Wales coaching team are clearly trying to evolve the Welsh game. Look how many games we lost in the last minute or two against the Southern Hemisphere teams over the last few years. Looking at the games this season against Ireland, Scotland and England, you can clearly see Wales are conserving their energy for the final stages of the game when the opposition are tired they are trying to run rampant.
What is clear is that decent teams can score tries against Wales and it's touch and go whether Wales can fight back. We failed against Ireland, and again against England.
I feel sorry for Italy next week, those Welsh boys are going to get savaged and Italy's moral will be rock bottom for that trip to Cardiff.

Are they really trying to evolve? I doubt it.

by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:10 pm

if Wales could play 80 minutes like they can play the last 15 they would be No.1 in the world.

Pile of bricks under the sofa at the moment.

Now we will have to suffer Beshocked's "I told you so" but he was right Itoje looks a bit special.

Francis will be nervous for the next few days, Hartley got 8 weeks for an non-intentional contact with the eyes.

Thought Joubert was going to do a Scotland / Australia for a moment at the end.

by JDizzle Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:11 pm

VinceWLB wrote:
JDizzle wrote: Whether that was just because England has taken their foot off the gas and were in 'defend a lead' mode or not is a different matter.

You don't get your foot of the pedal in a game like this. English players were out of their feet at the end of the game.

Course you do. Pretty much all sides do. They go into their shell and try to defend a lead when they are up by that much. It's been happening since the dawn of time in all sports.

by gog1992 Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:12 pm

Webb and Priestland came on and our whole game came together. Webb got the ball out quicker and bossed the forwards so we didn't get isolated and turned over as much. Priestland stood flatter and his first option was to pass. This shows that we have the potential. The coaches need to work out how to fulfil that.

by **RiscaGame** Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:13 pm

Webb so much more quicker getting the ball away.

by True Raven Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:14 pm

Ones thing for sure though is that I thought the Welsh bench had more impact despite the media saying England's bench could be the deciding factor

by HammerofThunor Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:15 pm

I stand by my 'one half means dick all' statement. Truly thought we had lost that towards the end. Subs disrupted us (who was saying we had a strong bench) but tha's to be expected. Fortunately we had a good lead by this time.

There is no doubt in my mind that Francis will be banned and should have (technically) received a red card. Delineate contact with the face unnecessarily which resulted in contact with the eye area. It could be used as a text book example of reckless contact which has resulted in bans 10+. Whether it should be or not is another question but that's the way the IRB run it.

by TightHEAD Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:16 pm

Too many changes, when will we ever learn. Hartley had to stay on.

by VinceWLB Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:18 pm

If that was a red card for Francis (didn't even make contact with the eye), it should have been a lifetime ban for Brown lol.

by Shifty Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:19 pm

I'd be wary of giving Webb and Priestland too much praise. Only a few years ago Welsh fans were screaming that Mike Phillips was far too slow, and Tavis Knoyle was coming on for the last 20 minutes and playing really well. Yet when Tavis got the start he looked average. It's MUCH easier to come on as a scrum half and make an impact later in the game, than it is to start the game from the beginning.

Gareth Davies has been scoring tries and playing well, and I'd be weary of simply letting Webb have his spot back simply because he's not injured anymore. I'd keep faith with Gareth Davies for next week.

by aucklandlaurie Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:19 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:I stand by my 'one half means dick all' statement. Truly thought we had lost that towards the end. Subs disrupted us (who was saying we had a strong bench) but tha's to be expected. Fortunately we had a good lead by this time.

There is no doubt in my mind that Francis will be banned and should have (technically) received a red card. Delineate contact with the face unnecessarily which resulted in contact with the eye area. It could be used as a text book example of reckless contact which has resulted in bans 10+. Whether it should be or not is another question but that's the way the IRB run it.

they will look at two things:
1. The question of intent.
2. Scratch marks on Coles face.

by eirebilly Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:20 pm

I really thought that Wales were going to get there in the end.

I still feel the score flattered Wales somewhat after the first half. England left many points on the field and with full respect to Wales comeback, it should not have been that close.

by HammerofThunor Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:20 pm

Except they were two different things. One was allowed by the laws. One isn't. You may not like that, which is obviously fine, but at doesn't change the fact. The only way Francis is going to get off is if he only made contact with Cole's nose, like Flatman suggested, although it didn't look like that.

by yappysnap Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:21 pm

Well done Wales, genuinely thought we were going to see the come back of all come backs then!

Last 10 minutes aside a very good performance from England with two negatives.

1. Converting possession into points. In the first half especially we wasted too many opportunities.

2. Managing the game. In the second half we cecame guilty of playing the wrong game plans at the same time. We tried to run every thing in our own half without success, but at the same time decided to kick every pen in the oppositiobs half when going for a lineout and hopefully subsequent try could have been the better choice.

Last 10 minutes were crazy, a man down, a few guys on the pitch who were off the pace (Brookes, LCD and Manu) and England getting tired and trying to defend the lead all went against us.

Did we finish with Itoje at 6 as well?

by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:21 pm

The England backs had contained Wales all day, soon as we start making changes, the new guys are off the pace and errors creep in. Agree with TightHEAD, if it ain't broke don't try and fix it.

by True Raven Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:23 pm

Shifty wrote:I'd be wary of giving Webb and Priestland too much praise. Only a few years ago Welsh fans were screaming that Mike Phillips was far too slow, and Tavis Knoyle was coming on for the last 20 minutes and playing really well. Yet when Tavis got the start he looked average. It's MUCH easier to come on as a scrum half and make an impact later in the game, than it is to start the game from the beginning.

Gareth Davies has been scoring tries and playing well, and I'd be weary of simply letting Webb have his spot back simply because he's not injured anymore. I'd keep faith with Gareth Davies for next week.

Webb scored five tries in 8 games last season and was player of the pro12 when he scored a sh!tload of tries for the Ospreys. He's not anything like knoyle!!

Webb offers what G Davies does but he controls his pack better and has a much better service.

by gog1992 Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:23 pm

I think if Biggar and Priestland combined there ability you would have a boss 10. Biggar is such a leader and battler but what he lacks is a good passing game and standing flat. You can't play Gareth Davies and Biggar together. It has to be Webb and Biggar, Davies and Priestland. Webb's pass gives Biggar more time to distribute.

by VinceWLB Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:24 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:Except they were two different things. One was allowed by the laws. One isn't. You may not like that, which is obviously fine, but at doesn't change the fact. The only way Francis is going to get off is if he only made contact with Cole's nose, like Flatman suggested, although it didn't look like that.

Didn't know you could shot a player in the head with your foot. There are hundreds accidental contacts in the face area each game but for some reason this one got checked by the TMO, weird.

by Seagultaf Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:24 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:I stand by my 'one half means dick all' statement. Truly thought we had lost that towards the end. Subs disrupted us (who was saying we had a strong bench) but tha's to be expected. Fortunately we had a good lead by this time.

There is no doubt in my mind that Francis will be banned and should have (technically) received a red card. Delineate contact with the face unnecessarily which resulted in contact with the eye area. It could be used as a text book example of reckless contact which has resulted in bans 10+. Whether it should be or not is another question but that's the way the IRB run it.

As a patriotic Welsh man I totally agree that Francis should be cited and banned, that might have been unintentional but it was recless contact with the eyes.

Do you agree though Hammer that it's very similar to the Brown incident a few weeks ago, which in my opinion was a more serious incident with Browns studs (possibly unintentionally) coming into contact with the Irish 9s eyes?

by **RiscaGame** Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:24 pm

eirebilly wrote:I really thought that Wales were going to get there in the end.

I still feel the score flattered Wales somewhat after the first half. England left many points on the field and with full respect to Wales comeback, it should not have been that close.

Yes.

Yes.

by yappysnap Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:25 pm

VinceWLB wrote:If that was a red card for Francis (didn't even make contact with the eye), it should have been a lifetime ban for Brown lol.

What is your problem Vince?

Your Scottish, but always seem to be on threads involving England jumping on any chance to slate. You've been going on about that Brown boot for ages. Give it a rest it's Frak boring

by TightHEAD Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:25 pm

3 tries to 1 so I guess Wales will dine-out on that for a while!

by gregortree Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:26 pm

Jones dodged a bullet with his use of bench.
Nearly did a Lancaster. At least he acknowledged his possible error.
Full credit to Wales.

by Marshes Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:27 pm

Well done England.

Also on Francis thing it seems accidental. Why is there such a furore for making contact with the face by hands a la Francis, but not making contact with the face by boot a la Brown?

by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:27 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:I stand by my 'one half means dick all' statement. Truly thought we had lost that towards the end. Subs disrupted us (who was saying we had a strong bench) but tha's to be expected. Fortunately we had a good lead by this time.

There is no doubt in my mind that Francis will be banned and should have (technically) received a red card. Delineate contact with the face unnecessarily which resulted in contact with the eye area. It could be used as a text book example of reckless contact which has resulted in bans 10+. Whether it should be or not is another question but that's the way the IRB run it.

they will look at two things:
1. The question of intent.
2. Scratch marks on Coles face.

Coles' reaction said it all, he was still rubbing his eyes when he went off.

I don't believe there was intent there, just reckless, however I do not know why he would but his had there, he couldn't see what was there and it certainly wasn't going to help with breakdown.

by VinceWLB Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:28 pm

yappysnap wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:If that was a red card for Francis (didn't even make contact with the eye), it should have been a lifetime ban for Brown lol.

What is your problem Vince?

Your Scottish, but always seem to be on threads involving England jumping on any chance to slate. You've been going on about that Brown boot for ages. Give it a rest it's Frak boring

Just mentioning some weird decisions that happen at Twickenham. That Brown non ban sting, that's right.

by Seagultaf Sat 12 Mar 2016, 6:28 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:Except they were two different things. One was allowed by the laws. One isn't. You may not like that, which is obviously fine, but at doesn't change the fact. The only way Francis is going to get off is if he only made contact with Cole's nose, like Flatman suggested, although it didn't look like that.

Hammer the Laws are perfectly clear, kicking a player is foul play.

Both incidents were serious reckless play, however I think Francis should be cited and banned as I also thought should have happened to Brown.

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