Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[McLaren]

First topic message reminder :

Super

For starters I live in a one bedroom flat. But I think you know that it should not take the people of a nation putting refugees up in their house before the government is required to do anything about it.

For example the government could easily rent 50 premier inns and put the refugees there until they can be given homes.


"Of course it matters. They have a far greater responsibility than the UK does"

So you are saying that because those countries closer to Syria have neglected their responsibilities the UK has the right to do nothing? You are saying that one country doing nothing is sufficient for another country to justify doing nothing?


bob

WTF was that?

[Davie]

The cleaner of Mercx, Indurain and Armstrong

Was she any good then?

[SmithersJones]

The cleaner of Mercx, Indurain and Armstrong

They all had the same cleaner? He'd certainly be one of the best in the world, cleaning up all those hypodermic needles and other drug paraphernalia!

Sorry Davie, you beat me to it! Bit sexist to assume the cleaner's a woman though

[McLaren]

Wasn't it the scooter courier that was really important?

[Roller_Coaster]

Wasn't it the scooter courier that was really important?

Why - Did they all hang on to the back of the scooter while going up the mountains?

[Mad for Chelsea]

Was golf in Nicklaus's time more of a global sport than Ice Hockey during Gretzky's career, or basketball during Jordan's? Is it even now? Or are we being a little guilty of UK bias? Certainly in France both Ice Hockey and Basketball attract considerably more interest than golf does. I suspect that's true of a fair few other countries (Spain and China for Basketball, a few scandinavian countries and Canada for Ice Hockey, Russia for both, etc.). Of course, the reverse is also true. It's why I find "global appeal" somewhat hard to define.

Certainly, some sports are very niche (American football, etc.). Then you have football which is truly global. Most sports however are somewhere in between...

[Mad for Chelsea]

Wasn't it the scooter courier that was really important?

Why - Did they all hang on to the back of the scooter while going up the mountains?

You should read "The Secret Race", it's a rather brilliant account of the extent of Armstrong's cheating. Basically, Armstrong's team had this guy on a scooter following the team around and delivering the drugs, since he could do it without all the controls the team's bus needed to go through.

[McLaren]

MFC

Golf in Jack's day was probably only really popular in the US and UK, so much the same as today but without the tournaments in East Asia.

The crucial difference is the strength and depth of the fields he beat. Ignoring the major tag Tiger has beat 80+ OWGR strength of fields many times (14 majors, 18 WGC's and The Players x2 for starters) while it is not clear if Jack ever beat am 80 OWGR field.

[super_realist]

Mac = with his "depth of field" stuff.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Mac

It was more me questioning pedro's call to omit guys like Jordan, Gretzky, rugby and cricket players, on the grounds of their sports not being global enough, while including Nicklaus.

As for comparing Nicklaus and Woods, well, comparisons across different eras are tricky for sure; it's a frequent debate in Tennis when discussing GOATs. Golf is probably even trickier, due to the propensity for "surprise" results...

[super_realist]

Trouble I have with golf other than the lack of athleticism is the lack of actual head to head battles. You cannot have an influence on other people in the game, you are effectively not playing anyone else but the course.
I put golf alongside sports that are judged like diving, dressage etc.

[McLaren]

Super

In athletics, swimming, Rallying, skiing, in fact most sports you just try and set a performance over a certain course/obstacle and see where you rank compared to the other competitors. Directly effecting your opponent like in Tennis, football, Rugby etc is probably less common.

[I'm never wrong]

Isn't that a definition of a "sport"? In that your efforts can influence the outcome (eg tennis, football), whereas if you can't, it's a pastime.

[McLaren]

INW

That would make the list of sports pretty limited.

[super_realist]

INW

That would make the list of sports pretty limited.

So what?

[McLaren]

Just seems to restrictive a definition of sport.

If they are not sports then what are the following activities catogorized as?

Athletics
Swimming
Skiing
golf
gymnastics
rallying
etc

[super_realist]

Crikey Mac, it's hilarious you infer I'm not intelligent when your posts are spattered with such rudimentary errors.

How can you put Athletics or Swimming in there when there is a clear head to head element in there that would elicit a response from the others in the field? They are competing against one another at the same time.

[McLaren]

So please enlighten me, what rudimentary errors have I made?

[super_realist]

Your constant misuse of "to" instead of "too"
Your consistent use of "z" when "s" should be used, no doubt due to your intake of American shows intended for a pre-pubescent audience.
Describing something as "effecting" instead of "affecting".

Those are just in your last three posts.

Would hate to see a job application from you come through. It would probably go right in the bin.

[Mad for Chelsea]

SR

Track athletics certainly, but most field events, i.e. long jump, triple jump, all the throws, are pretty much the same as skiing or golf, i.e. you're competing against a set measure (the clock, the measuring tape, or the course) and the one who performs the best wins. High jump and pole vault are a bit different due to the clearance vs skipping the height thing.

I still think there's a big difference between an objective measurement like the clock in skiing, time trials in cycling, and a more subjective one like judges in ice skating, gymnastics or even boxing. To not consider skiing or cycling TTs (or the field events mentioned above) as sports on that basis I find a little odd TBH.

[McLaren]

If it helps I am pretty sure I get fewer and less wrong nearly every time.


Still, at least you countered my argument.

[super_realist]

SR

Track athletics certainly, but most field events, i.e. long jump, triple jump, all the throws, are pretty much the same as skiing or golf, i.e. you're competing against a set measure (the clock, the measuring tape, or the course) and the one who performs the best wins. High jump and pole vault are a bit different due to the clearance vs skipping the height thing.

I still think there's a big difference between an objective measurement like the clock in skiing, time trials in cycling, and a more subjective one like judges in ice skating, gymnastics or even boxing. To not consider skiing or cycling TTs (or the field events mentioned above) as sports on that basis I find a little odd TBH.

It wasn't me who stated that those weren't sports, it was Mac.
I think the difference in golf is that the course is effectively different for everyone as no one plays all their shots from the same place. Add into that equation, the non physical aspect of the game, and you have a non-sport in my book.
Call it back pedalling if you like, but for me, golf doesn't fulfil any criteria of a sport, whereas athletics, skiing etc certainly do, even if some of the elements of those sports are less competitive, or should I say combative as the others.

[McLaren]

Super

For someone so keen to bash other peoples reading and writing skills your ability to follow what is written on threads is appalling.

INW said,

Isn't that a definition of a "sport"? In that your efforts can influence the outcome (eg tennis, football), whereas if you can't, it's a pastime.

To which I responded with.

INW

That would make the list of sports pretty limited.

Indicating that the above definition might be too restrictive and preclude many activities we all accept as sports from the sports category.

But you seemed to disagree and responded with.

So what?

Indicating you were ok with this definition and that you were not bothered by the issue around the definition being too restrictive.


I then listed some "sports" where your actions don't directly influence your competitors, examples where "you're competing against a set measure" (MFC).  


Can you not see that in the above conversation it wasn't me who stated they weren't sports, but through the use of a definition you agreed with the activities on that list could not be defined as sports?

[Mad for Chelsea]

SR

My post was more a response to your claim that "there is a clear head to head element" in Athletics and Swimming that's absent in Golf. I'm just not sure that's true with respect to some field events in Athletics. Point taken about the way the course effectively plays differently for each player, and an interesting one.

An interesting last sentence. I guess you could say there are three main "types" of sport:
- duel-type, where two teams or competitors are pitted directly against each other, and as such one's performance is directly influenced by the other competitor's. Obviously pretty much all team sports (football, rugby, etc.) qualify for this, as do tennis (racquet sports in general), fencing, etc.
- race-type, where competitors are pitted against each other, and the first to reach the finish wins. While a competitor's performance may well have an effect on others, it's not as direct as in the duel sports. This includes track events, swimming, cycling (non TT), etc.
- "timed" events, where you compete against an objective measure (the clock, par, the measuring tape), and the one with the best "score" wins. See examples above.

Of course, some sports are somewhat at the boundary (if we consider darts to be a sport - which I don't - then it would be between the first two for instance), but I think that's a decent categorisation.

[super_realist]

Mac, you listed your choices of sport after I'd said "so what?" So that in no way infers I agree with your definition. Plank.

MFC. Yes, I agree that there are different types of sports, of course, some more sporting, competitive and athletic than others, but crucially all maintaining at least some critical aspects as to what makes them a sporting spectacle.
I don't think golf fits in anywhere with those criteria.
1. Lack of head to head.
2. Lack of athleticism.
3. Not a reactive sport.
4. Players play at different times and frequently under different conditions.
5. They wear effing creased trousers.
6. They can't even carry their own gear.

Can you include someone whose game adheres to the list above in a collection of the worlds greatest sports people? Not a chance.

[McLaren]

Super

Read the posts again. By your (my/macs) definition you mean INW's definition.

[I'm never wrong]

Super

Read the posts again.  By your (my/macs) definition you mean INW's definition.

....and I said A definition, not THE

[pedro]

Mac

It was more me questioning pedro's call to omit guys like Jordan, Gretzky, rugby and cricket players, on the grounds of their sports not being global enough, while including Nicklaus.

As for comparing Nicklaus and Woods, well, comparisons across different eras are tricky for sure; it's a frequent debate in Tennis when discussing GOATs. Golf is probably even trickier, due to the propensity for "surprise" results...

I take your point. If I should withdraw somebody from the list it would be Nicklaus. But as we're on a golf board I guess I'm biased..

[pedro]

The cleaner of Mercx, Indurain and Armstrong

Was she any good then?

Didn't you ever think Armstrong appeared very polished..?

[kwinigolfer]

Gordie Howe died today, the NHL's Mr.Hockey. 88 years old but highly unlikely he knew that.
Saw him play in the NHL with his two sons for the Hartford Whalers in the 79/80 season; rated by most observers behind just Gretzky and Bobby Orr as best all-time.

[raycastleunited]

Henderson, Lallana, Barkley and Milner all pretty ordinary players and Wilshere probably a long way from full form and fitness.  I have no idea what Roy is up to dropping Drinkwater as he would clearly be more useful than all of those mentioned above.

Your first sentence is true. Shame about Drinkwater I would have had him in the squad. However, let's be clear he had a great season but is totally unproven at this level. Same with Vardy: one thing scoring for fun in a fast paced open prem league match, slightly different in a slow, tight high pressure tournament.

More nonsense it's hard to imagine being written. Yeah, Wayne Rooney has had such a prolific season in the Premiership hasn't he? Drinkwater should be in, as should, maybe, Noble.
Last night's Portugal game was ridiculous. Yep, play Rooney up the middle and f*** up your two most prolific strikers. Shunt Alli out wide 'coz that's where he's at his best. Absurd.

S_R is, I suspect, absolutely right. Deckchairs and Titanics. Same old, same old.

I'm not sure how you can state my post is nonsense, when it's undeniably fact. Drinkwater is unproven at this level (fact!) but I would have had him in the squad (opinion).

What's Rooney got to do with it? Are you turning into Mac? Maybe try reading people's posts before wading in and shooting off bombastic opinions. Buffoon.

[super_realist]

The point Ray is that it's irrelevant who is "proven at that level" because all England players have "proven"  (at any level) is they aren't good enough to be contenders at International tournaments.

So why not have Drinkwater? Picking the same players, in the same positions in the same way and expecting a different result is madness, literally.

Any other country would have fired Hodgson on the spot after guiding England to their worst ever tournament in Brazil, but giving him further employment reflects exactly why England are a non competitive team in international football.

If nothing changes, then England continue to be poor. Why the outrage at the very obvious?

[McLaren]

I would suggest that the Russia game highlighted that England could have done with someone like Drinkwater (or even Noble as Navy pointed out).  They were struggling to kill off an very poor Russian team and made no attempt to change things up and get the vital second goal.  And the reason they didn't change it up was because they had no alternatives on the bench.  Henderson, Milner and wilshere (to a lesser extent) are not going to offer you a different route to a goal from the bench.  England should have had the option to put Vardy and Drinkwater on and see if a more direct route could have worked.

If France can find room for one of the Leicester "heroes" then so should England.  Are England above the inclusion of a Leicester player while France are not?

Bear in mind that Kante and Payet were unproven at international level until a few days ago and that Rashford was unproven at even reserve level before christmas. If someone is clearly good enough then throw them in regardless.


In a stronger group that Russian team would be ripe for a total pasting.


PS How good are Croatia?  I knew they had loads of players from top clubs around Europe but they also seem to play really well together as a team.

[I'm never wrong]

PS How good are Croatia?  

I wonder too, Mac. Years ago didn't they do quite well in a World Cup? Just wonder if they are like Belgium, i.e. individuals in teams around Europe stand out, but as a national team.....

[McLaren]

INW

Yes, croatia finished 3rd at world cup 98. Doubt there is a better centre midfield pairing than Modric and Rakatic in these champs. Those two should create a heap of chances.

[McLaren]

Interesting little snippet on how screwed America is when it comes to introducing gun control.

http://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2012/12/17/trish-groves-get-the-gun-out-of-the-house/ (From 2012)

[pedro]

They can introduce gun control if they want. The socalled 2nd Amendment doesn't block for that, it's just an excuse.

[kwinigolfer]

They don't want.

[super_realist]

Just another example of America being a backward country compared to truly developed countries eh Kwini?

[kwinigolfer]

Only some parts of it, super.
But it is absolutely beyond frightening how scared sh1tless politicians are of the NRA - everything else just follows from there really. And I don't feel as if the British press/media comprehends their insidious influence.
I live in a supposedly "liberal" state, but even here any the gun laws are sickeningly weak. The State won't even permit our little town to modify local gun laws to a level that would still be considered reckless in Europe, or even 50 miles north in Oh Canada.

[dynamark]

Thanks Mac, Kante could be player of the tournament IMO .Looked very good in their match .
When he first joined Leicester he lived in a flat close to the ground and about 1 1/2 miles from the training ground .
Used to run to and from training until the club said you really need to get a car .So he went out and bought a mini
Wouldn't put Milner in any team and too many others in there not fit or match sharp.Kane didn't have a touch in the penalty box on Saturday some striker!

[raycastleunited]

INW

Yes, croatia finished 3rd at world cup 98.  Doubt there is a better centre midfield pairing than Modric and Rakatic in these champs.  Those two should create a heap of chances.

Agree with this. Everyone raves about Ozil, but he left Madrid because he couldn't get in the team ahead of Modric.

England's equivalent is Lallana, who looks as good as Modric or Ozil until his final product, which is usually a wayward cross or shot.

[Roller_Coaster]

Modric is superb and Rakitic is also excellent and Croatia do always seem to pull together to be a team greater than the sum of its parts - something Belgium woefully failed to do last night against Italy.

Lukaku was awful and if Origi has developed massively under Klopp at Liverpool then Christ knows what he was like before!

[super_realist]

Well done Iceland.
I was just warming to Ronaldo a bit, then he puts his foot in his mouth. Plank.

[Roller_Coaster]

Well done Iceland.
I was just warming to Ronaldo a bit, then he puts his foot in his mouth. Plank.

Well done for some positivity Sup! Agree. Well done Iceland.

[pedro]

Ronaldo is a great player, but he's a big p*ssy.

[westisbest]

Well done Iceland.
I was just warming to Ronaldo a bit, then he puts his foot in his mouth. Plank.

Yeah wanted Iceland to win.

You warming to Ronaldo.

Are you feeling ok.

[Roller_Coaster]

Worrying times west. If SR comes out and says he actually likes someone we'll know his account's been hacked

[westisbest]

Ha, true RC.

Maybe he has a hot date. And is feeling good.

[Roller_Coaster]

Ha, true RC.

Maybe he has a hot date. And is feeling good.

Hope Mac's bus isn't late then!

[Shotrock]

Should you stay or should you go?

Curious what you Brits think about the upcoming "Brexit" vote ...

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