Lions 2017

First topic message reminder :

I understand and respect all the arguments against this kind of post 18 months before but the proper journalists are all having a so we might as well. It happens after every tournament.

For what it's worth I'd pick:

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Nel
4. J. Gray
5. AW Jones
6. Faletau
7. Warburton
8. Vunipola
9. Webb
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg

16. McGrath
17. MacInally
18. Lee
19. Itoje
20. Stander
21. Youngs
22. Biggar
23. Halfpenny

TightHEAD wrote:Maybe the Coach should take a few players who have beaten the All Blacks.  

Does anyone in their right mind think warrenball is going to defeat the Abs ?

Gatland hasn't been anounced yet has he?

alive555 wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Maybe the Coach should take a few players who have beaten the All Blacks.  

Does anyone in their right mind think warrenball is going to defeat the Abs ?

Mr Gatland still believes

Fanster wrote:My 15 would be...

Mcgrath / maybe Healy will return form
Best
Cole
Grey
AWJ (Although both English locks are clearly in view right now!)
SOB (not a great 6N, but superb player)
Warburton
Vunipola (I love Falatau but Billy would be in line with how i'd play)
Murray (If his kicking game comes back)
Bigger
North
Roberts
Taylor
Hogg
Williams

Harsh on English players right now I get, but Itoje and Kruis have to back up this 6N performances, Hartley has work to do, Farell needs to show he can play 12 as a 12, I wouldn't want 2 playmakers 10/12, Joseph and Watson very close to team, and def in my squad.

You seemed to have picked a team based on who was good a couple of years ago rather than who is likely to be the best in sixteen months' time. Itoje and Kruis are on the way up and are only likely to get better. The two you have picked are of an age where they are not likely to improve and may be past their best.

TightHEAD wrote:

alive555 wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Maybe the Coach should take a few players who have beaten the All Blacks.  

Does anyone in their right mind think warrenball is going to defeat the Abs ?

Mr Gatland still believes

Has he definitely got the job?

Wales have a truly abysmal record against NZ and even in 6N their recent record is 3rd, 3rd and 2nd which is not bad but hardly awe inspiring.

I know they won against Australia but it was at that time the Aussies were not a great team. From memory around about that time England beat them four out of five times.

Can't see who else will take it on.

I personally would like the coach to be someone other than a current home nations coach, that way the tour will feel like everyone has a fair crack and not lead to favorites getting selected.

The last tour was used as a way to give certain players the experience of playing against SH opposition imo.

I can see it being Gatland with Schmidt and Cotter taking the junior roles.

"Halfpenny isnt great defensively either"

I hope Eddie Jones gets it!

Cyril wrote:I can see it being Gatland with Schmidt and Cotter taking the junior roles.

Agreed, although it will need a lot of co-operation from the respective Unions to release three head coaches.

That would be a good line-up on paper, with Schmidt in charge of the backs and Cotter responsible for the forwards. Whether they'd work together is a different matter - not sure how easily Schmidt and Cotter would find working with Gatland, especially being used to running their own respective set-ups.

There is only one candidate - Gatland.

He has a winning track record and has said he is available (unlike Jones and Schmidt). He'll have to take a lot of England players so should have a back up team of Borthwick and Gustard.

This is a dream gig for Gatland as he can leave some of his more sensitive Welsh players at home and keep control of selection to ensure none are picked when injured. What could be better than getting an all expenses paid trip with zero pressure watching your home team obliterate the Lions and at the same time flog the other home nations players out of the next season. No one expects the coach to do anything against the mighty All Blacks other than put a half reasonable spin on record defeat interviews. An added bonus is that Gatty also hates Ireland players so much he won't select more than the odd token even though he knows they will be humiliated.

If the Lions committee really want to spread it around then Eddie Jones has to be asked because (surely) over half the squad will be English. If EJ thumbs his nose at it then Lancaster should be given the reins because over half the squad will be English and at least he will know them (and have the time!). Of course the English media wouldn't allow Lancaster, nor any NH recent Test coach who knows the players and Schmidt is far too clever to commit Harakiri - so is Cotter...

...there really is only one candidate - Warren 'Lions' coach' Gatland!

Exiledinborders wrote:Agree with most of that team except the locks. I cannot see how you can go against Itoje and Kruis. They are the best now and in 2017 are likely to be even further ahead.

I bet AWJ will start as captain again. Not sure how you could leave him out to be honest. One of the first names on the sheet IMO.

TightHEAD wrote:Maybe the Coach should take a few players who have beaten the All Blacks.  

Like who? Freddie Burns?

The Great Aukster wrote:There is only one candidate - Gatland.

He has a winning track record and has said he is available (unlike Jones and Schmidt). He'll have to take a lot of England players so should have a back up team of Borthwick and Gustard.

This is a dream gig for Gatland as he can leave some of his more sensitive Welsh players at home and keep control of selection to ensure none are picked when injured. What could be better than getting an all expenses paid trip with zero pressure watching your home team obliterate the Lions and at the same time flog the other home nations players out of the next season. No one expects the coach to do anything against the mighty All Blacks other than put a half reasonable spin on record defeat interviews. An added bonus is that Gatty also hates Ireland players so much he won't select more than the odd token even though he knows they will be humiliated.

If the Lions committee really want to spread it around then Eddie Jones has to be asked because (surely) over half the squad will be English. If EJ thumbs his nose at it then Lancaster should be given the reins because over half the squad will be English and at least he will know them (and have the time!). Of course the English media wouldn't allow Lancaster, nor any NH recent Test coach who knows the players and Schmidt is far too clever to commit Harakiri - so is Cotter...

...there really is only one candidate - Warren 'Lions' coach' Gatland!

I expect the Lions to win the series. Why the F not.

LordDowlais wrote:The only Scottish player I would consider at the moment is Grey, and he would have a fight on his hands. 

When Hogg improves his defensive side to being a fullback then he can rub shoulders with the best in the NH.

Eh???


Except the one mix up with Seymour - I do not think Hogg was weak in defense at all

It is strange that almost every professional team selection has Hogg as one of the only dead certs (at this time) - but what do they know?

Hogg had some weak defense and high ball issues a few years ago - lets lambast him for this 6 nations - even though he didn't this time

Risky - sometimes, as with Donald Trump, George Galloway and George Osborne, you just have to shake your head and accept freedom of speech, no matter what is said. It's the same with LordDowlais.

As you know, I'm a Liberal at heart. I emancipate my servants after 40 years of service.

LordDowlais wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:and possibly one Scot.

I do not think there are any Scottish players that are better than the Welsh/English/Irish counterparts so taking one Scottish player would be an achievement if we are going by current form.

Players? I just assumed we were all referring to the irreplaceable Dr James Robson.

GunsGerms wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:Agree with most of that team except the locks. I cannot see how you can go against Itoje and Kruis. They are the best now and in 2017 are likely to be even further ahead.

I bet AWJ will start as captain again. Not sure how you could leave him out to be honest. One of the first names on the sheet IMO.

If the team was being picked a couple of years ago that would be fair comment. However the team is being picked to play in 2017 not 2014. Things move on.


Gatland has a record of favouring Welsh players so if he is coach you may well be proved right.

GunsGerms wrote:I expect the Lions to win the series. Why the F not.

Firstly, on ability and Form the ABs are better. Then there's the Freshness of their players who won't be carrying injuries or Fatigue from a long season. The ABs have developed a Fellowship through Familiarity over a long period and been in Finals together.
Finally the ABs are are home where they are always on Fire.

From a Scottish perspective, I wouldn't write off Mark Bennett.

Has a fight on his hands to get back in the Scotland XV but he was probably rushed back a little too soon from injury.

Centre is going to be super competitive but he's a cracking player.

I write about this Lions tour with a heavy heart because if you really drill into whom NZ have at their disposal, it is difficult to shake the cold, hard view that we are going to get our backsides handed to us during the tests, particularly given the absolutely ludicrous touring schedule (which not enough has been made of, frankly - somebody should lose his or her job over that).

Schmidt and Cotter would be a superb combination of guys that have been left hand and right hand for years. To suggest that they aren't winners is ludicrous - to suggest that they should have a stronger track record in winning internationals games is more valid. Gatland will, of course, get the job which means that his Welsh side will again probably be maximised.

It's impossible to tell who will be in form at the time and the competition is nuts in some positions.
Just take the position at centre, for example:

12 - it's entirely feasible that any of Tuilagi, Roberts, Farrell, Henshaw, Dunbar, Taylor, McCloskey, Scott Williams or Slade could be first choice by then.

13 - I have no idea how one would choose between Joseph, Bennett, Payne, JD2 etc if choosing specialists and a number of the guys listed for 12 can also play 13.

Absolutely impossible.

I would also say that a number of 'hulk smash' forward combinations will be available by then - can you imagine a pack comprising 4. Kruis 5. Hughes 6. Du Preez 7. O'Brien 8. Vunipola?

123456789 wrote:I understand and respect all the arguments against this kind of post 18 months before but the proper journalists are all having a so we might as well. It happens after every tournament.

For what it's worth I'd pick:

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Nel
4. J. Gray
5. AW Jones
6. Faletau
7. Warburton
8. Vunipola
9. Webb
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg

16. McGrath
17. MacInally
18. Lee
19. Itoje
20. Stander
21. Youngs
22. Biggar
23. Halfpenny

A perfectly reasonable selection. It would be interesting to keep this thread, with its credible 23 as at 21 March 2016, to see how many (few?) of these actually get the nod fifteen or so months hence: quite a few of these 23 were miles away fifteen months ago.

GunsGerms wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Maybe the Coach should take a few players who have beaten the All Blacks.  

Like who? Freddie Burns?

At least he knows what it's like to be a winner, how is Burns these days?

Exiledinborders wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:For what it's worth I picked four Scots in my starting lineup; Hardie, Laidlaw, Taylor and Hogg. Guys like Seymour, Nel and the Gray brothers should also tour. By the time 2017 comes around though, I expect Webb and Davies to be the front-runners for the No.9 jersey.

Laidlaw???

He is not the best scrum half in Scotland. Yes, his short range place kicking is excellent but he is so slow at moving the ball he makes Ben Youngs look quick which takes some doing. Opposing defenses must love him.

I felt he was the most consistent of the lot. There seemed to be quite a few complaints about Davies, Youngs and Care, where-as Webb only played one game. I guess you could swap him with Murray who I had on the bench.

TightHEAD wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Maybe the Coach should take a few players who have beaten the All Blacks.  

Like who? Freddie Burns?

At least he knows what it's like to be a winner,  how is Burns these days?

You missed out Brad Barritt and Tom Youngs...

TightHEAD wrote:
The last tour was used as a way to give certain players the experience of playing against SH opposition imo.

Let's not forget that they won, breaking some records along the way .

Exiledinborders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:Agree with most of that team except the locks. I cannot see how you can go against Itoje and Kruis. They are the best now and in 2017 are likely to be even further ahead.

I bet AWJ will start as captain again. Not sure how you could leave him out to be honest. One of the first names on the sheet IMO.

If the team was being picked a couple of years ago that would be fair comment. However the team is being picked to play in 2017 not 2014. Things move on.


Gatland has a record of favouring Welsh players so if he is coach you may well be proved right.

Yet he was on the most recent shortlist for world player of the year......your argument might have had legs if it made any sense.

mikey_dragon wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:
The last tour was used as a way to give certain players the experience of playing against SH opposition imo.

Let's not forget that they won, breaking some records along the way .

The first winning tour since 97 and people still moan  about gatland playing his favourites.  Since gatland took charge of wales we've probably played Australia more times than any other home nation so why would he pick his welsh players just to give them experience.....which they already had!

Gatland put a Welsh team out with a few guests. Totally against the whole concept of the Lions as I understand it.

Sin é wrote:Gatland put a Welsh team out with a few guests. Totally against the whole concept of the Lions as I understand it.

None of the match day Test 15/23 was a jaw drop of a surprise and the series was won. Where's the problem?

As I recall, there were few English, for example, because few English players were outstanding at that time. So be it. I didn't complain then and I'm not complaining now. If the national coach put out 10+ of his own players and that side got beaten, there may be a problem. Otherwise, no issue.

SimonofSurrey wrote:

Sin é wrote:Gatland put a Welsh team out with a few guests. Totally against the whole concept of the Lions as I understand it.

None of the match day Test 15/23 was a jaw drop of a surprise and the series was won. Where's the problem?

As I recall, there were few English, for example, because few English players were outstanding at that time. So be it. I didn't complain then and I'm not complaining now. If the national coach put out 10+ of his own players and that side got beaten, there may be a problem. Otherwise, no issue.

Of the matchday 23,all of whom played,there were 7 English,4 Irish,1 Scottish and 11 Welsh.The injuries to Healy and POC probably cost Ireland 2 more places.I always thought the concept of the Lions was to take a multinational squad to the SH and win the series.

However,if Schmidt is the 2017 Lions coach he can take all the players from Ireland as long as he replicates the 2013 success.

I may be completely wrong and it is completely against recent results but I do think the Lions best chance of winning is playing a Schmidt/ Gatland style of play, whereby the forwards and inside centre smash consistently and the fly-half kicks well and the wingers can chase and retrieve that ball. That being said the arguments against Hogg are valid, he's not great in defence, he should have tackled Guirado but he got himself unbalanced and his tackling is hit and miss, his high ball has improved immeasurably this year, he's now on the same level as the others on that front. However a fly-half like him who, let's not forget, in three of his four whole games he scored or was crucial in at least one of his tries.

That's why I'd pick Vunipola and Faletau in the back row, Faleatua's tack in stats are good enough for a blindside and so I his link play, between the two of them they are good enough to soften any defence. AWJ and Warburton rise to the occasion of every occasion and Jonnu Gray will not miss a tackle and consistently provides go forward, Itoje can provide a bit of X factor of the bench, the front row should be picked entirely on dominating the scrum. Obviously it's impossible to say now or even before the first test has been played but my gut feeling and from watching the team is that if we do manage to win it won't be pretty, remember the all blacks team will not be overly experienced and if we can choose a relentless and structured game they may well get frustrated.

McGrath
Hartley (capt)
Nel
Itoje
Kruis
Stander
Hardie
Vunipola

Youngs
Sexton
North
Henshaw
Joseph
Watson
Hogg

Marler
Best
Cole
AWJ
Faletau/Hughes

Murray/
Biggar
Tuilagi
Williams/Daly

It's always interesting to compare teams now & 6 months+ down the line. I think Hughes will make an impact but it will be interesting when & where Eddy introduces him into the England set up given his comments about Billy V.
I think we lack real quality back up in the back 3 but still have plenty of time. Watson, Hogg & North are certain tourists there though.

BigTrevsbigmac


I like your team, but i think i would start with Murry at 9, and , either Youngs /Care on the bench.

TightHEAD wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Maybe the Coach should take a few players who have beaten the All Blacks.  

Like who? Freddie Burns?

At least he knows what it's like to be a winner,  how is Burns these days?

Returning to great form.

Gotta love Stephen Jones:

Stephen Jones - Sunday Times wrote:Fullback: Stuart Hogg (Scotland), Mike Brown (England) and Leigh Halfpenny (Wales).
Wing: George North (Wales), Anthony Watson (England) and Dave Kearney (Ireland).
Centre: Jamie Roberts (Wales), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Robbie Henshaw (Ireland) and Elliot Daly (England).
Out-half: Owen Farrell (England), Finn Russell (Scotland) and Dan Biggar (Wales).
Scrum-half: Rhys Webb (Wales), Ben Youngs (England) and Greig Laidlaw (Scotland).
Prop: Jack McGrath (Ireland), WP Nel (Scotland), Samson Lee (Wales), Mako Vunipola (England) and Jake Cooper-Woolley (England).
Hooker: Dylan Hartley (England), Jamie George (England) and Richard Hiibbard (Wales).
Second Row: Luke Charteris (Wales), Alun Wyn Jones (Wales), Ultan Dillane (Ireland), Jonny Gray (Scotland) and George Kruis (England).
Back Row: Sam Warburton (Wales), John Hardie (Scotland), Iain Henderson (Ireland), Maro Itoje (England), James Haskell (England), Billy Vunipola (England) and Toby Faletau (Wales).

I did struggle to continue reading when I got to Dave Kearney, tears of laughter and derision still rolling down my cheeks.

The guy who picked Itoje, Haskell and Faletau as his players of the tournamnet then didn't include any of them in his team of the tournament.

LondonTiger wrote:Gotta love Stephen Jones:

Stephen Jones - Sunday Times wrote:Fullback: Stuart Hogg (Scotland), Mike Brown (England) and Leigh Halfpenny (Wales).
Wing: George North (Wales), Anthony Watson (England) and Dave Kearney (Ireland).
Centre: Jamie Roberts (Wales), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Robbie Henshaw (Ireland) and Elliot Daly (England).
Out-half: Owen Farrell (England), Finn Russell (Scotland) and Dan Biggar (Wales).
Scrum-half: Rhys Webb (Wales), Ben Youngs (England) and Greig Laidlaw (Scotland).
Prop: Jack McGrath (Ireland), WP Nel (Scotland), Samson Lee (Wales), Mako Vunipola (England) and Jake Cooper-Woolley (England).
Hooker: Dylan Hartley (England), Jamie George (England) and Richard Hiibbard (Wales).
Second Row: Luke Charteris (Wales), Alun Wyn Jones (Wales), Ultan Dillane (Ireland), Jonny Gray (Scotland) and George Kruis (England).
Back Row: Sam Warburton (Wales), John Hardie (Scotland), Iain Henderson (Ireland), Maro Itoje (England), James Haskell (England), Billy Vunipola (England) and Toby Faletau (Wales).

I did struggle to continue reading when I got to Dave Kearney, tears of laughter and derision still rolling down my cheeks.

You see that list and can only think he put a bunch of names into a hat and drew them out at random. That is some list

You mean Dave Kearney the Heineken cup and six nations winner? Very under rated player. In fairness though Jones does add some name just to spark debate.

Leaving Sexton and Murray out is controversial though even if they didn't have a good season.

Come on, I have no issue with an Irish winger per se, but Kearney?

Of course selecting Hibbard (and Cooper wooley) are bigger jokes, but they were lower down and I had run out of laughs by then.

The Great Aukster wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I expect the Lions to win the series. Why the F not.

Firstly, on ability and Form the ABs are better. Then there's the Freshness of their players who won't be carrying injuries or Fatigue from a long season. The ABs have developed a Fellowship through Familiarity over a long period and been in Finals together.
Finally the ABs are are home where they are always on Fire.

They are not always on fire. The first test Id say they will be there for the taking. Lets not judge the series based on the last series. That was a shambles.

Exiledinborders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:Agree with most of that team except the locks. I cannot see how you can go against Itoje and Kruis. They are the best now and in 2017 are likely to be even further ahead.

I bet AWJ will start as captain again. Not sure how you could leave him out to be honest. One of the first names on the sheet IMO.

If the team was being picked a couple of years ago that would be fair comment. However the team is being picked to play in 2017 not 2014. Things move on.


Gatland has a record of favouring Welsh players so if he is coach you may well be proved right.

As of right now he is the best option at lock for me by some distance. Yes Itoje and Kruis had a good campaign but they aren't at AWJs level yet. You need your head checked if you think they are. 2017 is only one year away. AWJ is already on the plane. He is also the best option for captain IMO too.

Rob evans
Jamie George
WP nel
Itoje
Kruis
Robshaw
SOB
faletau
Webb
Sexton
North
Bennett
Joseph
Watson
Hogg

McGrath
Best
Samson lee
j gray
b vunipola
care
G ford
D Taylor

lostinwales wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Gotta love Stephen Jones:

Stephen Jones - Sunday Times wrote:Fullback: Stuart Hogg (Scotland), Mike Brown (England) and Leigh Halfpenny (Wales).
Wing: George North (Wales), Anthony Watson (England) and Dave Kearney (Ireland).
Centre: Jamie Roberts (Wales), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Robbie Henshaw (Ireland) and Elliot Daly (England).
Out-half: Owen Farrell (England), Finn Russell (Scotland) and Dan Biggar (Wales).
Scrum-half: Rhys Webb (Wales), Ben Youngs (England) and Greig Laidlaw (Scotland).
Prop: Jack McGrath (Ireland), WP Nel (Scotland), Samson Lee (Wales), Mako Vunipola (England) and Jake Cooper-Woolley (England).
Hooker: Dylan Hartley (England), Jamie George (England) and Richard Hiibbard (Wales).
Second Row: Luke Charteris (Wales), Alun Wyn Jones (Wales), Ultan Dillane (Ireland), Jonny Gray (Scotland) and George Kruis (England).
Back Row: Sam Warburton (Wales), John Hardie (Scotland), Iain Henderson (Ireland), Maro Itoje (England), James Haskell (England), Billy Vunipola (England) and Toby Faletau (Wales).

I did struggle to continue reading when I got to Dave Kearney, tears of laughter and derision still rolling down my cheeks.

You see that list and can only think he put a bunch of names into a hat and drew them out at random.  That is some list

Jake Cooper-Woolley
Ultan Dillane
Richard Hiibbard
Dave Kearney

The Abs must be shaking in their boots

Ultan Dillane is excellent. You are under rating him.

GunsGerms wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:Agree with most of that team except the locks. I cannot see how you can go against Itoje and Kruis. They are the best now and in 2017 are likely to be even further ahead.

I bet AWJ will start as captain again. Not sure how you could leave him out to be honest. One of the first names on the sheet IMO.

If the team was being picked a couple of years ago that would be fair comment. However the team is being picked to play in 2017 not 2014. Things move on.


Gatland has a record of favouring Welsh players so if he is coach you may well be proved right.

As of right now he is the best option at lock for me by some distance. Yes Itoje and Kruis had a good campaign but they aren't at AWJs level yet. You need your head checked if you think they are. 2017 is only one year away. AWJ is already on the plane. He is also the best option for captain IMO too.

Gunsgerms I agree they weren't at AWJ level's vs Wales, they were above it....

You don't get a long service award. AWJ - player I think is very good but he's got to perform better than his peers or he'll struggle to make the plane with Kruis,Itoje,Launchbury,J.Gray,Charteris and the man mountain Toner all in contention currently. Could even be someone else who bursts onto the scene.

Launchbury and Lawes a year ago were the first choice locks for England but that's changed, we'll see what happens in a year. Perhaps someone will pick up an injury, we just don't know.

Well except of course if Gatland is coach then AWJ, Lydiate and Davies might as well book their hotels now....

Not looking for a long service award but he is a proven operator at the top level at an extended period, plus he is only 30. A level Kruis and Itoje aren't at yet. They had a great year, yes but unless they consistently back that up year on year at the highest level they could yet prove to be a flash in the pan like lots before them.

AWJ is a shoe in in my opinion and should be captain. He will start along side Itoje possibly or who ever fits the game plan.

I would be tempted to bring Lydiate myself. Think he is up there with the most under rated players Wales have ever had.

LondonTiger wrote:Gotta love Stephen Jones:

Stephen Jones - Sunday Times wrote:Fullback: Stuart Hogg (Scotland), Mike Brown (England) and Leigh Halfpenny (Wales).
Wing: George North (Wales), Anthony Watson (England) and Dave Kearney (Ireland).
Centre: Jamie Roberts (Wales), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Robbie Henshaw (Ireland) and Elliot Daly (England).
Out-half: Owen Farrell (England), Finn Russell (Scotland) and Dan Biggar (Wales).
Scrum-half: Rhys Webb (Wales), Ben Youngs (England) and Greig Laidlaw (Scotland).
Prop: Jack McGrath (Ireland), WP Nel (Scotland), Samson Lee (Wales), Mako Vunipola (England) and Jake Cooper-Woolley (England).
Hooker: Dylan Hartley (England), Jamie George (England) and Richard Hiibbard (Wales).
Second Row: Luke Charteris (Wales), Alun Wyn Jones (Wales), Ultan Dillane (Ireland), Jonny Gray (Scotland) and George Kruis (England).
Back Row: Sam Warburton (Wales), John Hardie (Scotland), Iain Henderson (Ireland), Maro Itoje (England), James Haskell (England), Billy Vunipola (England) and Toby Faletau (Wales).

I did struggle to continue reading when I got to Dave Kearney, tears of laughter and derision still rolling down my cheeks.

What an absolute cluster-Smeg of a team.

Dave Kearney- good player, but come on
Elliot Daly- he's done nothing to suggest he can play international rugby yet, other than one try-saving tackle. Again, there are more worthy centres
Finn Russell- I really do not see the fuss with him
Jake Cooper-Woolley!? Hasn't even played international yet!
Richard Hibbard...what?

Seriously, what does he get paid to do? Ridiculous.

How does Stephen Jones keep his job as a rugby journalists?

Awful squad that would struggle in tests against Italy, Georgia and Romania let alone NZ at home.

beshocked wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:Agree with most of that team except the locks. I cannot see how you can go against Itoje and Kruis. They are the best now and in 2017 are likely to be even further ahead.

I bet AWJ will start as captain again. Not sure how you could leave him out to be honest. One of the first names on the sheet IMO.

If the team was being picked a couple of years ago that would be fair comment. However the team is being picked to play in 2017 not 2014. Things move on.


Gatland has a record of favouring Welsh players so if he is coach you may well be proved right.

As of right now he is the best option at lock for me by some distance. Yes Itoje and Kruis had a good campaign but they aren't at AWJs level yet. You need your head checked if you think they are. 2017 is only one year away. AWJ is already on the plane. He is also the best option for captain IMO too.

Gunsgerms I agree they weren't at AWJ level's vs Wales, they were above it....

You don't get a long service award. AWJ - player I think is very good but he's got to perform better than his peers or he'll struggle to make the plane with Kruis,Itoje,Launchbury,J.Gray,Charteris and the man mountain Toner all in contention currently. Could even be someone else who bursts onto the scene.

Launchbury and Lawes a year ago were the first choice locks for England but that's changed, we'll see what happens in a year. Perhaps someone will pick up an injury, we just don't know.

Well except of course if Gatland is coach then AWJ, Lydiate and Davies might as well book their hotels now....

You do realise AWJ was one of the best locks at the world cup which was this season! Form is temporary and class is permanent as they say