Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

Unions are like cops....Everyone hates them until they need one..

Venezuala that wealthy..brilliantly run Country where poor people flourished under a capitalistic sky before Chavez..

Like Cuba before it..

OK Duty...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Venezuala that wealthy..brilliantly run Country where poor people flourished under a capitalistic sky before Chavez..

Like Cuba before it..

OK Duty...

Truss I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not...? Saying that you expecting handouts from daddy in law points you to a loony lefty. But the Bolivarian revolution has been one of the most disastrous socialist idiotic politcal period in history.

Coxy001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Venezuala that wealthy..brilliantly run Country where poor people flourished under a capitalistic sky before Chavez..

Like Cuba before it..

OK Duty...

Truss I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not...? Saying that you expecting handouts from daddy in law points you to a loony lefty. But the Bolivarian revolution has been one of the most disastrous socialist idiotic politcal period in history.

Chavez came in when the economy collapsed.....Taking back the oil enabled him to reduce poverty and invest in sorely needed social services....

Now cheap shot me all you want but one of us knows about the history of Venezuala and Countries like it...

and it isn't you..

I'd just love to know how corbyn will nationalise the railways and have a 100% public funded health and social care service, including ending pfi but still building new units and reintroducing nurses bursaries.

All fantasy, smiths not great but at least he's made an attempt to clarify where he will raise the funds from.

Raising corporation tax to 150% probably.

Ent wrote:I'd just love to know how corbyn will nationalise the railways and have a 100% public funded health and social care service, including ending pfi but still building new units and reintroducing nurses bursaries.

All fantasy, smiths not great but at least he's made an attempt to clarify where he will raise the funds from.

Would have preferred Angela Eagle out of the three....

she's got some spunk.......

Ent wrote:I'd just love to know how corbyn will nationalise the railways and have a 100% public funded health and social care service, including ending pfi but still building new units and reintroducing nurses bursaries.

All fantasy, smiths not great but at least he's made an attempt to clarify where he will raise the funds from.

The only way any of us will get a NHS that we think we should have is if we all pay more for it in the future.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Venezuala that wealthy..brilliantly run Country where poor people flourished under a capitalistic sky before Chavez..

Like Cuba before it..

OK Duty...

Truss I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not...? Saying that you expecting handouts from daddy in law points you to a loony lefty. But the Bolivarian revolution has been one of the most disastrous socialist idiotic politcal period in history.

Chavez came in when the economy collapsed.....Taking back the oil enabled him to reduce poverty and invest in sorely needed social services....

Now cheap shot me all you want but one of us knows about the history of Venezuala and Countries like it...

and it isn't you..

Ah, Chavez et al and their wonderful Utopia. Not quite so good eh:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela#1999.E2.80.932013
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/22/venezuela-economic-crisis-guardian-briefing

Not that all avowed capitalists are great, but Chavez can hardly be called a great success.

Ent wrote:I'd just love to know how corbyn will nationalise the railways and have a 100% public funded health and social care service, including ending pfi but still building new units and reintroducing nurses bursaries.

All fantasy, smiths not great but at least he's made an attempt to clarify where he will raise the funds from.

This charming man?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Ent wrote:I'd just love to know how corbyn will nationalise the railways and have a 100% public funded health and social care service, including ending pfi but still building new units and reintroducing nurses bursaries.

All fantasy, smiths not great but at least he's made an attempt to clarify where he will raise the funds from.

Would have preferred Angela Eagle out of the three....

she's got some spunk.......

navyblueshorts wrote:

Ent wrote:I'd just love to know how corbyn will nationalise the railways and have a 100% public funded health and social care service, including ending pfi but still building new units and reintroducing nurses bursaries.

All fantasy, smiths not great but at least he's made an attempt to clarify where he will raise the funds from.

The only way any of us will get a NHS that we think we should have is if we all pay more for it in the future.

Agreed, however it is fanciful to suggest all the above and no means of paying for it.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Venezuala that wealthy..brilliantly run Country where poor people flourished under a capitalistic sky before Chavez..

Like Cuba before it..

OK Duty...

Truss I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not...? Saying that you expecting handouts from daddy in law points you to a loony lefty. But the Bolivarian revolution has been one of the most disastrous socialist idiotic politcal period in history.

Chavez came in when the economy collapsed.....Taking back the oil enabled him to reduce poverty and invest in sorely needed social services....

Now cheap shot me all you want but one of us knows about the history of Venezuala and Countries like it...

and it isn't you..

Chavez, again, was an absolute disaster. Reduce poverty? What world do you live in?

National strike for 3 months a couple of years in to his reign (which included the state oil company idiot). GDP fell off the radar as a result which led to his govt having to introduce currency controls and experienced massive devaluations which hit the poor the hardest as imported products became stupidly, stupidly expensive.

I'll spell it out for you: Devalued currency = baaaaad for imports as it makes them more expensive. This increases inflation. When inflation spirals then the poor simply can't afford a loaf of bread.

Coxy001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Venezuala that wealthy..brilliantly run Country where poor people flourished under a capitalistic sky before Chavez..

Like Cuba before it..

OK Duty...

Truss I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not...? Saying that you expecting handouts from daddy in law points you to a loony lefty. But the Bolivarian revolution has been one of the most disastrous socialist idiotic politcal period in history.

Chavez came in when the economy collapsed.....Taking back the oil enabled him to reduce poverty and invest in sorely needed social services....

Now cheap shot me all you want but one of us knows about the history of Venezuala and Countries like it...

and it isn't you..

Chavez, again, was an absolute disaster. Reduce poverty? What world do you live in?

National strike for 3 months a couple of years in to his reign (which included the state oil company idiot). GDP fell off the radar as a result which led to his govt having to introduce currency controls and experienced massive devaluations which hit the poor the hardest as imported products became stupidly, stupidly expensive.

I'll spell it out for you: Devalued currency = baaaaad for imports as it makes them more expensive. This increases inflation. When inflation spirals then the poor simply can't afford a loaf of bread.

You have no idea what Venezuala was like under Caldera have you ?????.......Bless you,  I bet you've never heard of him..

Until you have some form of context......It's pointless having this debate...

I see there is a row going on about Corbyn voters being kept off the ballot.......

If Corbyn wins Labour are screwed because he's unelectable and Britain isn't a left wing Country.........and if Smith wins Labour are screwed because it'll be called a "shaft" and I imagine lefty voters will show their dismay at election time....

There aren't enough left wing voters to win in an election for Corbyn without center ground voters......Conversely..There aren't enough center voters to win an election for Smith without the left..

Time Labour grew up...

Corbyn has launched his digital manifesto.

Jeremy Corbyn proposing digital 'bill of rights' - BBC News
https://apple.news/AYHAxtAz-SPK_Vn90X33oPg

Bits and pieces of it interesting, legal requirement for minimum broadband speeds, public hub of open source educational material.

Less interesting bits, use of apps etc to canvas for votes, online voting for elections, suggestion he would nationalise the telecommunications network.

Times/Yougov...........

Corbyn 62..............Smith 38 .......(bigger win than last time)

Smith polls better with older members pre-2015..........

Corbyn polls better by huge margins with post-2015........Gives credence to the entryism arguments..

So I guess the stalwarts that do most of the work will get Corbyn again....

Smith has moved out from 5-1 .......

I don't know what happens with Labour if this is right and most commentators believe it to be....(Though their record ain't good lately)......

Can't see a big split because why should an Mp be forced to leave the party they have supported all their lives and more in reality.. why give up in a lot of cases a "Job for life"..

Labour will stagger on me thinks........Hopefully it will all come to a real head before 2020..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Times/Yougov...........

Corbyn 62..............Smith 38 .......(bigger win than last time)

Smith polls better with older members pre-2015..........

Corbyn polls better by huge margins with post-2015........Gives credence to the entryism arguments..

So I guess the stalwarts that do most of the work will get Corbyn again....

Smith has moved out from 5-1 .......

I don't know what happens with Labour if this is right and most commentators believe it to be....(Though their record ain't good lately)......

Can't see a big split because why should an Mp be forced to leave the party they have supported all their lives and more in reality.. why give up in a lot of cases a "Job for life"..

Labour will stagger on me thinks........Hopefully it will all come to a real head before 2020..

Not if the party goes through with the threats of de-selection.  

Labour party is being destroyed by a combination of unimaginable idiots, well-meaning idiots and Trotskyite @rsehole fantasists (who are also fu*king idiots).  

Anyone voting for Corbyn is one of the above.

P.S. Owen Smith isn't much better, but he's the level of opposition that you get when an election is set to be decided by f*cking morons.

If they'd waited another year and not made it look so obvious they were trying to screw him...

It could have been job done..

Scapegoating an already despised PM or an admission that we/the french manufactured the crisis in Libya and are now paying for it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37356873

'May the screwers be screwed' seems to be the 2016 maxim of choice

Maybe, but what the **** is the point of effectively saying after the event/damage: "See! Told you we shouldn't have gone along with it!". Pathetic, spineless, bunch of idiots.

Apparently it is a big turnout in the Labour leadership election....

Smith's camp pretty much conceded because the numbers returned were pretty poor earlier in the week....

Smith needed a big turnout and he has one..

It's supposed to be close..

Be amazed if it actually is close. Smiths been poor

"Nobodeee is as Radeeecal as Meeeee!  If you want Communism with a dollop of Thatcher and a few seasoning grains of Blair and an ounce of corporate hegemony, then I'm your man, meeeee!"

Yeah, Smee - we believe you

Come on Navy, you know Smith (I'm as radical as Corbyn!) is about as radical as a Punch and Judy show on a Blackpool summer beach. Batman's sidekick Robin pretending he's Che Guevara.

Huffington post have heard rumours that Corbyn has won by a landslide 65-35%....

If that is the case it would give him a huge mandate and quell fears of another battle next year....

Will he play hardball or softball with dissidents ??...

Will any bolt it and join the Lib dems or the Tories in marginal seats??..

Only rumours....

Tom Watson is over the moon and plans to hold a fireworks display in central London to celebrate the win of his dearest friend and political soulmate!

" I knew Jeremy would pull through. He has the perfect vision for the party going forward and first thing we should do as a Leadership partnership is seek a way of getting rid of the nasty, spiteful rebels that tried to knife him in the back. Together Jeremy and I will clean up this Party and put the Rebellion members to the sword. It's what the membership want."

Depends whether the MPs want to be pro active or reactive. They can bolt now and contest their seats against a split labour vote, or they can sit, pray they don't get deselected and pick up the pieces after Labour gets smashed in the next GE.

Andy...that 60s Bondish double agent with the Michael Caine specs - that's the guy we want to know about. What's he going to do? The guy that had the rope ready to lynch the false King Corby the instant he was deposed - suddenly and painfully finds himself back staring that goodly King straight in the face again... the King being very much alive and even more powerful than he was before the night of the long knives assassination attempt.

Labour won two council seats off the Tories last night...

Politics never fails to surprise you..

The messages coming from both camps over the last few days certainly suggest that Corbyn has won (as do the betting markets). Corbyn's camp is acting as if it's a done deal, Smith hasn't really said anything at all, and Progress's latest dispatch about "fighting on" or whatever seems to accept that Smith has lost. 65-35 would be a very good result for Corbyn, especially considering the 120,000 or so who were barred from voting (largely thought to be Corbyn supporters).

I suspect Corbyn's stance to the rebels will be "firm but fair". Those who are happy to serve in the shadow cabinet will be welcomed (he's already made plenty of noise about this), and I also think he'll respect the view of those who feel they can't return to the front bench having previously resigned, but will help him fight the Conservatives either from the back benches or as part of some sort of committees. However, I also think he'll take a harder line on those one might call "troublemakers", who spend more time criticising his leadership and policies, whispering to the press that he's unelectable, etc. rather than opposing the Conservatives.

Comrade Corbyn will win his leadership election but never a General Election. Can't control his own Party, who is going to trust him to run a Country?

It is quite amusing that now that Comrade Corbyn gets re-elected on a bigger majority than last time (peculiar way of doing things for a Commie actually ) but now that he's proven he's the guy the Party still want, what are the 'defeated' side saying yet again?
Corbyn needs to compromise now and show that he's serious about getting the party back on track and allow MPs to vote for the Shadow Cabinet..... as a compromise,.... coz he won,.... to show he's serious about uniting the party... coz the losers still don't want him.... and ain't interested in compromising on their opinion.

  You might think listening to them that Corby actually lost.  Logic really has left the room in British politics these last five or six months.

What is the role of the 'rebels'?  Where is their compromise?  Where are they saying 'here's our white flag, we bow to democracy, now let's move forward together and forget the civil war'?  I only hear Jeremy saying that.  The people who want 'compromise' don't want to compromise.

Plus - some of the people who said they want Corbyn to be more effective are some of the people who now say they won't compromise and accept a seat back at that Shadow Cabinet.  So they won't allow Corbyn to mend a few fences.
They know how he should do things and want to encourage him onto the correct policies but they don't want to do that by encouraging him from the position of being in a shadow cabinet chosen by him.  
Therefore methinks that's a bluff - what these rebels want to do is continue the war,  to try to undermine Corby from the sidelines yet again, to keep up the propaganda that he's all wrong, keep talking down the direction of their own Party, hope that Labour support continues to erode overall, hope that this is reflected in any new election (yes, willing to sacrifice Labour power one more time to get the Blairite train back on the rails)

So which side of the civil war is actually the most divisive and corrosive and cynical?

Made a huge mistake the plotters....Taking him on so soon......and with the way they went about.  Co-ordinated resignations, subterfuge, Briefing against him constantly...Getting a stiff to go up against him......Eeked of desperation.  Desperate acts generally end badly....(Screwing someone over breeds sympathy and stiffens resolve among supporters)

Should have given him time to hang himself (He is useless)........Slowly worked on the membership....Waited till a heavyweight contender like Chuka Umunna was sure he had a sniff !!..Next election is 2020 there is/was no hurry !!.

But no !!... This disaster and an increased majority means Labour have given a guy an even bigger mandate and put off any attempt at the leadership off until 2020...

The MPs need to take a long look at themselves.....THEY gave Corbyn the backing to put himself on the ballot in 2015 without having a clue at which way the membership leaned (They put the fox in the hen house)

Unfortunately a Westminster-Grassroots disconnect happens when you keep airlifting in London Lawyers to safe seats in places they probably have never heard of..

They have all resigned once already..............Can't play the same hand twice in one Parliament.

John McDonnell called the plotters "F**king useless"....Sorry for Labour to say he's probably right !!!.

"Unfortunately a Westminster-Grassroots disconnect happens when you keep airlifting in London Lawyers to safe seats in places they probably have never heard of).."

Yep.  The age of instant Social Media - rightly or wrongly - has crept up on age old 'conventions' and the masses are no longer content to be dutiful donkeys to the circle of elites handed down to them from Above to 'represent' them.

Who was that Labour guy who a while back yawned at the idea that he should know or indeed have much care for the opinions of his 70,000 or so constituents?  Frank Field, that's it.

And on that other point: "THEY gave Corbyn the backing to put himself on the ballot in 2015".  

Indeed, the perfect plan implodes - it's a classic.  In order to appear well rounded Labourites with a good smell of coal and iron furnaces coming of them, the MPs popped Corbyn into the Leadership race..... but they never remotely contemplated that smug affected bow to their dusty and sweaty past would jump up and bite them in the ass.

That's the part I love most.... that the complacent, yawning, chuffedly comfy 'establishment' MPs who know all the etiquette and insider moves of the Westminster Chessboard, were outfoxed over and over and over again by the crumpled-jacket looney left brigade.

Yougov....Con 39....Labour 30......UKIP 13........Lib 8........Green 3..

UKIP are spontaneously combusting too, thank goodness.

No one concerned about the lines the government are trotting out?

I know it was a serious incident and I did reprimand myself for laughing when I saw Woolfe splayed out on that wooden gangway. (At the time I didn't realise how serious it was and just saw it as another great story from Crazy Ukip inc.)
But the guy who hit him happens to be named Hookem? Come on - did Nigel set this one up? How come so many true stories today read like scripted comicbooks?

ShahenshahG wrote:No one concerned about the lines the government are trotting out?

Which ones?

They can just do what they like now, they'll have a huge majority come next election as labour under Corbyn are a complete joke and ukip don't need to exist anymore.

Ent wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:No one concerned about the lines the government are trotting out?

Which ones?

They can just do what they like now, they'll have a huge majority come next election as labour under Corbyn are a complete joke and ukip don't need to exist anymore.

Don't be so sure.......Brexit is a big problem for May. Corbyn has put Keir Starmer on the brief and he is up against Davis...Which is a big mismatch...(Starmer is a top operator)

Already Ken Clarke and Osborne are on May's case.............The Liberals are winning plenty of Locals and I expect them to win back some seats they lost to Cameron in 2020..

Most importantly I think Corbyn will be gone by 2020 !!!!........An acceptable replacement will prevail..

Clive Lewis is a good bet......and he looks decent !!.

Do you remember when the 2008 crash happened and they went around asking people what they thought. A woman shouted out this didn't happen when Blair was in charge and got a rousing cheer from the people going about their business? Like Truss said... Brexit is a big problem for May, don't be surprised if she gets it in the neck simply for that, no matter how fair unfair it is. I was referring to the foreign worker listing of companies. That's like a big f*ck off to global talent, don't come here you're not welcome and thats without considering the lurch to the right and the implications for immigrants already settled here.

ShahenshahG wrote:...Brexit is a big problem for May, don't be surprised if she gets it in the neck simply for that, no matter how fair unfair it is...

Not that I'm convinced they're always right, but the Dateline London thing on the BBC News channel the other day had pretty much universal agreement that although Labour look a shambles now, it's the Tories that potentially have the bigger problem and infighting to come over just this one issue.

Worth factoring in the Tories will have boundary changes brought in by 2020....Which will help..

Not sold on May though.......Looks like a lightweight....

Corbyn will be gone by 2020...Have no doubts about that......As long as it isn't McDonnell replacing him it could be interesting.

CON 43......LABOUR 26..(ICM)

Geez it would be annihilation if there was a GE now !!!

Poor old May these fixed term parliaments Cameron brought in must be infuriating. .

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:CON 43......LABOUR 26..(ICM)

Geez it would be annihilation if there was a GE now !!!

Poor old May these fixed term parliaments Cameron brought in must be infuriating. .

Polls can be tricksy things. Never wise to put too much stock in them.

I'm sure the Tories are aware it would also look very unsporting. The political equivalent of kicking a man when he's down. It also makes sense to get your house in order before putting yourself at the mercy of the electorate. I'm sure she still has plenty of stuff to work on.

Would it look unsporting? You'd have to try hard to convince me of that and the Tories can easily play it off as May testing her mandate.

Who cares if it is sporting...It's politics.

She can't go to the Country without deliberately losing a vote of confidence on her Government...That is self defeating..

She has a huge majority waiting... but can't cash it in...

and it is all her predecessor's fault.

I see Owen Smith has written a piece suggesting Labour needs to be in the center or it will get hammered at the next GE...

While I agree with him it is a bit rich coming from a guy that was more left wing than Corbyn two weeks ago..

Smith sums up everything that is wrong with politics at the moment..