Rome Masters 2016

First topic message reminder :

What a draw!

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/scores/current/rome/416/draws

There are good and bad things with this era, as with all eras.
Most people tend to agree we have been spoilt with the players of the past 10-15 years...and many don't see the same talent level coming through to carry on the same levels of highs they've become accustomed to. There's nothing wrong in saying that whilst commenting on some of the better or interesting players arriving now, eg Kyrgios. But the game has become a little stale if you look beyond Djokovic's dominance socal...same old players by and large making the semis of big events. Not everyone gets excited by that anymore until something really new happens, a breakthrough. Many people are simply waiting for that and that's fine. Everyone is different, you can't uniform everyone into thinking today's tour is the best ever. Nor does it mean they currently hate tennis either.

lydian wrote:Give it a rest socal...stop trying to label and pigeon hole everyone into for or against. Your modus operandi seems to be divide and conquer. Lighten up

I'll give it a rest when the moaner brigade gives it a rest, till then the moaners can tell us how bored they are how their interesting is dying. And I get to moan about the moaners. It is really rather disconnected to think that a group of fans can spend a decade revomiting negativity and not engender negativity with those with opposing views. If after two and a half hours of the two greatest baseliners of this period playing and on the match thread not one of them saw a noteworthy shot or complimented either competitor, if fed was playing they would still be crowing. It just shows the bias and lack of any awareness. These people shouldn't be taken seriously and generally they aren't because all their genius suggestions routinely get ignored by anyone with any decision making within the game. Why because their ideas don't make much sense and their critiques like world class athletes are too fit are borderline laughable.

lydian wrote:There are good and bad things with this era, as with all eras.
Most people tend to agree we have been spoilt with the players of the past 10-15 years...and many don't see the same talent level coming through to carry on the same levels of highs they've become accustomed to. There's nothing wrong in saying that whilst commenting on some of the better or interesting players arriving now, eg Kyrgios. But the game has become a little stale if you look beyond Djokovic's dominance socal...same old players by and large making the semis of big events. Not everyone gets excited by that anymore until something really new happens, a breakthrough. Many people are simply waiting for that and that's fine. Everyone is different, you can't uniform everyone into thinking today's tour is the best ever. Nor does it mean they currently hate tennis either.

Yeah if they actually had a shred of objectivity and weren't constantly grinding the same axe maybe your critique would be fair. But really they watched two and half hours of these guys playing and not one "wow nice shot" or anything like it. Not one time, really they are that uninspired or they want to complain. Then maybe when they have one of their heavy flow days the rest of us who are sane can just ignore them because they really want to be bored and are just negative nancies.  What other explanation do you have for their Iago like death scene for their interest in tennis which is always dying but never dies. If you spent two and half hours watching this match and there wasn't a single noteworthy shot or anything positive to say, well you just might be someone who needs a new hobby

How about writing a short dramatic story Socal and trying to get it published in a magazine? Nice Shakespearean reference but your "heavy flow days" is Trumpean and concerning.

Nore Staat wrote:How about writing a short dramatic story Socal and trying to get it published in a magazine?  Nice Shakespearean reference but your "heavy flow days" is Trumpean and concerning.

It should have been an othello like death scene, I think Iago makes it out alive and it is Othello that  has the great death scene. As for the Trump reference well sometimes you are required to face the absurd with more absurdity. Damn it Romeo and Juliet or Macbeth had good death scenes to

Socal, who are you are you talking about...me?...1 or 2 other people at most?
There have been matches where good shots are called. I watched the whole match yesterday and was awe struck by some of the shot making but I didn't feel compelled to come on here and say so. Its used to happen for some matches but the forum has generally not been of that nature for a while now. People tend to comment on matches afterwards or in advance, not much live commentary. However, people do set up tournament threads, after all LF has set this one up
We just need people to comment more...but lets not get divisive on "moaners", etc. People were moaning during the 2007/8 period on BBC606...you'll always get it for any period. Just got to roll with the punches

socal1976 wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Don't see why there is this aspiration for Novak to get the same adulation as Federer. Simply not going to happen and by pointing it out at every turn is going to make it less happen. A fan of any player could say the exact same thing about a shot made by their favourite player isn't rewarded with Federeresq fawning.

HM has the right approach in not a care in the world for what the crowd or posters think of Djokovic and supports the anti-establishment approach.

Well I don't really care if you guys grotesquely fawn over a great Djokovic shot like this and other forums do for fed shots. If the fawning of others influenced my decision of who I support why should I not just become a Roger fan instead of Djokovic of all people? I just like to point out the hypocrisy of many on this site who feel that crapping on the modern tour and the world number relentlessly because of the lack of excitement are full of it. I mean two and a half hours of that match and no one at some point in the match thread stopped to compliment a point or a shot, I mean they can't break their never ending campaign of announcing to everyone how bored they are uninspiring everything is as they are STILL watching and still commenting. I mean not a single atta boy for either player throughout a great match by probably the two greatest baseliners ever.

I mean pseudo critiques like my favorite the players are "too fit" or your favorite "I wish star players would have
 shorter careers like the old days". This example is just a useful exercise to show  how silly and hypocritical the whoa is tennis brigade truly is. I am convinced that on match point for the calendar slam Djokovic drops his racquet and does a bicycle kick volley of 135 mile an hour serve right on the line for a winner you and the rest of positivity police will still find away to be bored and to tell everyone about it. Just recently I had an epiphany as to why these formulaic complaints were so popular. I figured it out, if you have nothing new, original, or informative to say then simply being cynical and negative gives the critic the appearance of being discerning, when in actuality said critic just doesn't have anything to say and this is just their way of getting affirmation from the rest of the moaner brigade. Same as when Hollywood does the same damn superman movie 53 times, they have nothing to say and no ideas so they'll just trot out their tired formulas to gain the affirmation of the group.

So point me in the direction where I was negative in this thread about Djokovic?

Talk about overkill. The reason I didn't celebrate or commend that set point in the first was because I was pretty much exhausted by the rally before the winner itself. Yes great reactions at the net, but when I think of the amount of shots it took to reach that point, I had checked out mentally. That doesn't mean to say I didn't appreciate the shot or anyone else for that matter. There's not a hypocrisy in that. Oddly I didn't see any of his supporters at the time commend it.

This reminds of that scene in Pulp Fiction when Jules wants Vincent to acknowledge the miracle!

https://youtu.be/P0ZvgRJz6Bo

Checked out mentally during a 14 shot rally which involved Rafa going in to the net not once but twice and which ended with a 4 shot rat a tat at the net? Socal has an over the top way of expressing himself but that sort of comment really makes the point for him.

How does it??

Read my post again in its entirety and then digest.

1) I commend the quality of the reactions at the net using the term 'great'

2) I even implied an appreciation for the winning shot.

Honestly.

Sure, whilst making a negative point about the length of the rally preceding it.

So 1 negative out does 2 positives?

My point was that it's a strange type of tennis fan who is bored by a rally consisting of:

- a serve;
- three baseline shots;
- an approach to the net, lob and smash;
- three baseline shots;
- an approach to the net;
- a drop volley and three shots at the net - ending with a winner.

A faction on this forum (those who Socal is complain about) spend their time asking for variety and more net play yet, when it happens, you complain that you had checked out mentally.

Yes I'm one of those faction but I really enjoyed the match yesterday.
However, when I make the variety point it actually applies to the tour (conditions) in general.

I pointed out I was exhausted by the point, not bored.

There seems to be a growing trend where posters are implying and quoting things of what posters are saying and failing quite spectacularly.

The argument was born out of lack of appreciation for a winning shot which has now being expanded and expanded so far it gets so far away from the original argument. I quoted my reasoning for not producing a post to commend a point that had 1 negative and 2 positives. I call that balance.

I find it even stranger that posters can't actually stick to a point.

Interesting what Djokovic said after the match:

"It's a straight-sets win, but it feels like we played five sets. I was fortunate in important moments. But I managed to take him out of his comfort zone in important moments and didn’t give him always the same look. I thought he played high quality tennis. He tried to step in. He was trying to play aggressive. But towards the end, I guess I was a bit more fortunate."

Clearly he knows it was a battle royal yesterday and with a little more self belief/confidence I do believe Rafa could cross the line in a 5 set match at RG. I also believe Rafa will have learnt a lot from the match about future approaches to his matches in general. You could feel Nadal getting more aggressive as the match wore on...something I think he'll stay with. There's no doubt Nadal elevated (and was forced to elevate) his level yesterday which augurs well for further development.

Indeed. A lot of people here seem th hate the way tennis is for being too samey but then don't even bother to watch when you see brilliance like that. Maybe we typecast players too much, we see novak abs immediately think it'll be dull, but then don't realise just how great he played

Quite agree LK, at times it feels like there is pleasure in trying to catch people out, to find and quote inconsistencies, or thought-police what is said in here. Like who cares, it's just a forum about tennis. Live and let live, embrace the differences. Opinions ebb & flow...the game has good and bad parts...but there is no rule that discussion has to be perfectly balanced or positive or negative all the time. Isn't the forum in danger of taking itself just a little too seriously?

There's too much innuendo/hiding behind generalisation going on here...who are these comments from Socal/temp/SB aimed at? Me, LK and BB?

lydian wrote:Interesting what Djokovic said after the match:

"It's a straight-sets win, but it feels like we played five sets. I was fortunate in important moments. But I managed to take him out of his comfort zone in important moments and didn’t give him always the same look. I thought he played high quality tennis. He tried to step in. He was trying to play aggressive. But towards the end, I guess I was a bit more fortunate."

Clearly he knows it was a battle royal yesterday and with a little more self belief/confidence I do believe Rafa could cross the line in a 5 set match at RG. I also believe Rafa will have learnt a lot from the match about future approaches to his matches in general. You could feel Nadal getting more aggressive as the match wore on...something I think he'll stay with. There's no doubt Nadal elevated (and was forced to elevate) his level yesterday which augurs well for further development.

RG is going to be interesting. Ultimately, Novak's gone into RG as the best clay courter in four of the last 5 years but he's come away with no titles. The pressure on him will be immense. I think he will probably do it this year as even a slightly below par Novak needs something special to defeat him but I'm less certain than I was before Madrid and Rome.

Well I've had enough tbh lydian. I can't be bothered with it. I will try and catch you on another forum. TW perhaps. Ciao.

Nothing I said was specific to you Lydian. It was directed at the idea that Djokodal are dull players who play with no variety, but don't really give them kudos when they actually do. It's almost like we've sorted players into boxes, and are getting blind.

I've seen novak pull off shots these last two weeks that Federer would have been called a god for, but no one seems to care

Importantly. I'm not singling anyone out for that, it's just a trend I've noticed on the whole

Hold on lk there's no need for that.

I've been away mostly so i didny really see it develop. What exactly has happened here?

Stay that way, away

Right. That it. I've had enough of this sh@t. WHat the HELL has been going on? Why has lk just left?

LK....

Yep TW for sure

So why the Frak has one if our lingest term posters felt to leave the forum? And why is he being given Poopie wind up remarks out the door?

The excuses had better be watertight Imore telling you now...

It's high time me and Adam had another chat about this. You need to learn to respect other people and not have s tantrum

If you're still here lk. Please don't go based on this guy Come talk to me by pm. We can sort this out

Congrats to Djokovic fans; Socal, HM, et. others.

I thought it was a nice match actually, there weren't many long safe rallies, in fact both players were really trying to land hammer blows and seize the initiative in any rally which made it fun to watch. Some ridiculous, amazing points; at the baseline and the net.
Nadal played well I thought, and deserved a set atleast on balance of play (second set!), but Djokovic played better in the bigger moments and thus deserved to win. Nadal needs to cut down on his forehand unforced errors if he's going to have a chance against Djokovic/Murray at the French Open. He is playing better than last year, but frankly not at the level 2008-2013.

As for the overall impressions on tennis; look, as tennis fans we've been spoilt for the past decade with so many amazing epics and mouth-watering close matches in the latter stages of slams. It's true now we have Djokovic playing at a world class level, and the others dipped (I hope Fed recovers well from his injury, and Nadal can edge his game up another gear)- but inevitably atm it means the matches in latter stages of Grand Slams won't be that close; but tennis is still for me by far the best sport and it can be unpredictable- perhaps soon Djokovic will decline a bit a someone else will improve and we'll have a big battle on our hands.

Jahu wasn't involved in LK leaving. His post about staying away was aimed at Temp, not LK. Probably deserved deletion regardless but I think there was confusion as the timing was unfortunate.

Given that, he probably didn't deserve a suspension. However, obviously the way he has dealt with it is utterly inappropriate and probably in itself deserves suspension (notwithstanding he may have initially had a point).

As for LK, I think he can be sensitive from time to time. I challenged one of his posts above and that seems to have made him decide to leave. Hopefully, he will come back as he's a good poster. The forum would be a dull place if we all agreed!

Born Slippy wrote:The forum would be a dull place if we all agreed!

Agreed.
Or maybe I shouldn't agree?

His behaviour in general is not good enough. This has to end. Sorry man for the inconvenience. We've just lost one of our best posters and he's tokd hold him to stay away. That's not good enough.

Not a good day.  Not a good day at all   Shouldn't be doing that to anybody... Even if it he claims it was aimed at someone else. There's just too many posts like that. Lk was the last guy I knew personally. I'm not best pleased about this. I hope you understand


Sigh. But onwards I guess.  When does murray play?

Read your post at 1.22 and Jahu's at 1.29 in isolation. He was replying to your post, not commenting on LK. Understandable confusion though.

Murray about to start. Good chance to see Pouille play on the big stage.

I too have to agree whilst Jahu is at times, without doubt, a pain in the a$$ he was not involved in that little debacle.. but his behaviour does at times go over the edge.
Come back lk...there is not enough of us old posters left anymore.

Indeed bs. I accept your explanation. But he shouldnt be doing it to anyone. You also note the abusive behaviour that is constantly exhibited when told that, that is not something anyone deserves to take.

May I echo the sentiment to come back lk. If it gets like that you and I can chat about it on pm just casually.

This is quite a result for pouille. I don't know anything about him tbh

Hopefully LK will be back after a bit of time out.

But we have to not repackage people's posts into other meanings they didn't intend because I think it was being misrepresented by his own posts by others that really annoyed LK, not a disagreement over opinions in itself.

Agree Jahu was speaking to Temp not LK. He has made some "interesting" comments at times but has been fine by and large but didn't deserve to be banned immediately following LK leaving. He's clearly feeling very frustrated as a result and the post below is clearly an example (which I'm sure will be removed before I even post this).

Sometimes when these things happen there needs to be a deep breath taken before further actions are sanctioned because look at how Jahu has reacted. Personally, I'd like to see LK back. This forum is small enough as it is...posters of all spectra should be welcome as long as they stay within rules.

LK, have a chill and come back...lots to discuss with RG coming up

socal1976 wrote:I'll give it a rest when the moaner brigade gives it a rest, till then the moaners can tell us how bored they are how their interesting is dying. And I get to moan about the moaners. It is really rather disconnected to think that a group of fans can spend a decade revomiting negativity and not engender negativity with those with opposing views. If after two and a half hours of the two greatest baseliners of this period playing and on the match thread not one of them saw a noteworthy shot or complimented either competitor, if fed was playing they would still be crowing. It just shows the bias and lack of any awareness. These people shouldn't be taken seriously and generally they aren't because all their genius suggestions routinely get ignored by anyone with any decision making within the game. Why because their ideas don't make much sense and their critiques like world class athletes are too fit are borderline laughable.

Is it Gibran who says - the most evil person I encountered was my own image in the mirror? Or is it Kabir?

Seems convenient timing to me if I'm honest. I accept that may have been it. It's not good enough either way though. Moreover this overreaction isn't defendable in instance whatsoever. It's the second time it's been done as well

I'm also not that happy that a debate got so heated that one of our most reasoned posters has just gone, that shouldn't have happened...

Jahu does have to be reined in at times without a doubt but equally comments like those above are no more than trolling and offensive.

There seems to be someone hacking into the system and posting some weird repetitive stuff on the tennis forum. Just when Socal was saying it was too boring on here.

Guess who ..no prizes

No that's just jahu having a meltdown. Ignore him I really couldn't care less. He's just a forum troll and enough is enough frankly

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I think LK was thinking of leaving for sometime as he posted a comment a few months back expressing an intention to delete his account in the help forum.  I think he has done this before and returned.  For any forum to survive its original members it needs to advertise for fresh blood.  That said it seems that tennis itself is becoming less popular in general as the women's tennis seems to have lost its way, while Federer and Nadal are in decline.

Jahu you are burning all your bridges. Behave and go for a walk.

Fuuk it, I aint coming back here, Ive said it 600 times, since Temp become Mod, this forum ahs gone down.