Australia v England, 11 June

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AUSTRALIA v ENGLAND
11 June 2016
20:00 AEST (UTC+10)
Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

44 Played 44
25 Won 18
1 Drawn 1
18 Lost 25
940 Points 674

B. Recent Form

3 October 2015 - Twickenham, London: 13 – 33 to Australia

29 November 2014 - Twickenham, London: 26 – 17 to England

2 November 2013 - Twickenham, London: 20 – 13 to England

17 November 2012 - Twickenham, London: 14 – 20 to Australia

13 November 2010 - Twickenham, London: 35 – 18 to England

19 June 2010 - Telstra Stadium, Sydney: 20 – 21 to England

12 June 2010 - Subiaco Oval, Perth: 27 – 17 to Australia

C. Teams

AUSTRALIA 

Israel Folau; Dane Haylett-Petty, Tevita Kuridrani, Samu Kerevi, Rob Horne; Bernard Foley, Nick Phipps; Scott Sio, Stephen Moore (captain), Greg Holmes, Rory Arnold, Rob Simmons, Scott Fardy, Michael Hooper, David Pocock.

Replacements: Tatafu Polota-Nau, James Slipper, Sekope Kepu, James Horwill, Dean Mumm, Sean McMahon, Nick Frisby, Christian Lealiifano

ENGLAND

15. Mike Brown; 14. Anthony Watson, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Luther Burrell, 11. Marland Yarde; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Ben Youngs; 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Dylan Hartley, 3. Dan Cole, 4. Maro Itoje, 5. George Kruis, 6. Chris Robshaw, 7. James Haskell, 8. Billy Vunipola.

Replacements: 16. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 17. Matt Mullan, 18. Paul Hill, 19. Joe Launchbury, 20. Courtney Lawes, 21. Danny Care, 22. George Ford, 23. Jack Nowell.

So regardless of actual selection complaints etc...whats the tactics...how are we actually going to go on the pitch with that side.

GeordieFalcon wrote:So regardless of actual selection complaints etc...whats the tactics...how are we actually going to go on the pitch with that side.

Kick for touch a lot, with that lineout. Charge their backrow with Billy, the flankers and locks coming in hard to clear out and retain ball, look for the offload. Youngs licence to attack the fringes. Direct running at pace from Burrell, Yarde, Brown.

And are you happy with that CJ?
Or rather than happy are satisfied it can be effective against Oz?

I wonder if we will see Watson to fullback and no well to wing in second half?

GeordieFalcon wrote:And are you happy with that CJ?
Or rather than happy are satisfied it can be effective against Oz?

If it's done well and the Strike runners finish the job, yes

ChequeredJersey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:So regardless of actual selection complaints etc...whats the tactics...how are we actually going to go on the pitch with that side.

Kick for touch a lot, with that lineout. Charge their backrow with Billy, the flankers and locks coming in hard to clear out and retain ball, look for the offload. Youngs licence to attack the fringes. Direct running at pace from Burrell, Yarde, Brown.

I think that would be the go.  England will get a lot of value from the line out, and you have a clear advantage with forwards who can carry the ball (our bench will offer more in the regard than the starters).  I'd think trying to go around the edges in the backline might eventually pay off as you have a pace advantage in the back three.  Ultimately though, the line out and a weaker kicking game will be our achilles in my opinion.

It's a pretty exciting team we've picked but as much from being a collection of popular, promising players as knowing they will do well.  The two issues I have are picking Mumm over McCalman, who I think should be starting at 8, and having three 7's.  Pooper and McMahon are all really good players but its three guys who are each about 100 - 104 kgs.  I wonder at the future of such a selection approach.

Part of me wonders whether Eddie Jones is still carrying scars from losing to Woodward's England sides, and strongly believes the way to give an Australian team the willies is to send plenty of large men at them all day long.

A couple of points make me cautious:

- We'd better have the right game plan at the breakdown, because there's not much bench flexibility if we haven't.

- Ford is the only back-up kicker. If Farrell gets injured, and Ford has a repeat of his Wales performance, that will be a problem.


On the other hand:

- While the strategy of choosing four locks looks a bit constraining, they are all in good form. Itoje shifting to blind side potentially opens up new options during the match. It would be a boost to see Lawes putting a well-timed thumping tackle on a first receiver, if he comes off the bench.

- Aside from the goalkicking, for the first time in a long while, we've got reasonable bench cover for the back line. When Jonny May got injured early during the World Cup, George Ford came on, which was great news for distribution, but Joseph was out on the wing, which wasn't. This time, most changes would leave us in some kind of strategic shape.

Well Farrell at 10 makes sense, but then we've got Burrell who is a pretty limited 12, Joseph who is out of form, Brown who is out of form and Yarde who wouldn't even be on the tour if selection were purely based performances last season. There appears to be a real lack of kicking and play-making options.

If we get away with it then great (for instance I think Yarde has real potential), but I feel we could put out a backline which is so much better.

It will be interesting to see how Robshaw and Haskell do against the much vaunted Australian backrow.

I think the first test will see a pretty limited game plan. territory first, win our lineouts and try to disrupt theirs, make a mess of the breakdown and when we have the ball carry hard one out.

Could work though

Eddie is a rugby nerd. His selection seems to reflect that. I'm a great believer in Eddie and his main strength. Game plan and selection. The players need to do what they're being asked to do and all will go well.

Does anyone else think Ben Youngs is lucky to be starting other than me?

Jimpy wrote:Does anyone else think Ben Youngs is lucky to be starting other than me?

+1

Geordiefalcon you can only play what is in front of you indeed but the importance of that Wales game has been elevated.

I called it an unimportant game before and afterwards it's still that.

The big ones were the RWC one and the 6 nations one. Also this Australia series is much more important.

All England players need to put in a big performance vs Australia.

None of the backs bar Farrell fill me with confidence (it's not because he's a Saracen, it's because I think he's the only one whose been in good form!)

I agree about B.Youngs, an in form B.Youngs is a real asset but he's not in form. When he's good he's very good, when he's bad....

To be honest I think the form 9 in England is Robson but he's not on the tour.

Could do without any injuries in the pack.

beshocked wrote:None of the backs bar Farrell fill me with confidence (it's not because he's a Saracen, it's because I think he's the only one whose been in good form!)

Yet barely a month ago you were moaning about Farrell's form and attitude.

Watson has not had a poor game for England this year, Yarde and Burrell have both been in form at the end of the season and Joseph will always provide a threat. Sure Youngs has been hot and cold - even within games - and Brown had been looking tired. However the back line we have selected offers a great deal of threat.

I have no worry about the backs, I am worreied about the back-row resources in the XXIII

The issue with scrum halfs for England is that they consistently look better when coming from the bench. More space later in the game etc I would suspect. Robson does look like the heir apparent but both Wasps sh have been in class form when fit. Robson has the all round game though.

My main hope for this game is that we don't get embarrassed.

The Australians have talked us up as posing a threat - albeit one they expect to cope with quite comfortably - and it would be a real downer to come away from the first test looking outclassed.

It would also be nice if we could keep 15 men on the pitch for the whole 80 minutes. Since Itoje is going to be in the spotlight, he ought to be careful about holding onto players in rucks; Farrell should wrap his arms in any tackles; while Watson should keep his timing right when jumping for the high ball. Haskell is largely irredeemable on this score.

I'd be very upset in getting a drubbing as I'm confident we'll come away with a close victory in the 1st test.

No 7&1/2 wrote:The issue with scrum halfs for England is that they consistently look better when coming from the bench. More space later in the game etc I would suspect. Robson does look like the heir apparent but both Wasps sh have been in class form when fit. Robson has the all round game though.

Agree on this.

Both Youngs and Care have weaknesses. Youngs distribution is poor but offers a threat and kicks well. Care is a little better at the distribution, is always a threat but doesn't kick well. Robson seems to have a game made for the Int stage, very rounded. Simpson will never be more than a possible bench option imo

beshocked wrote:Geordiefalcon you can only play what is in front of you indeed but the importance of that Wales game has been elevated.

I called it an unimportant game before and afterwards it's still that.

Who's elevated it? Everywhere ive read people have said them same - the opposition weren't at their best etc
No one has said wow that was a world beating performance. But you still have to acknowledge he played against who he had...he did well.

I'd like both the Wasps guys to get a chance though. Simpson has really come on leaps and bounds in the last year.

I'm sure if Chris Ashton had played well against Wales we'd be hearing calls for him to be knighted by now

Caught between a rock and hard place GF. You can't prove yourself until you play the big games, but you can't play in the big games until you've proved yourself!

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'd like both the Wasps guys to get a chance though. Simpson has really come on leaps and bounds in the last year.

Last season he was good, I don't think as much this season. His game management and passing can be outright awful at times, I'm not sure you can get away with that at the top level. Although Youngs does to a degree, he's much better than Youngs.

Robson deserves a shot and I am surprised he wasn't in the party. Perhaps Eddie's long term plan is to turn Ford into a French-style 9. (Only half joking)

Anyway, I am both excited and optimistic.

I think people are perhaps missing the main change Jones has made at 9. Not the players, but what they do in the game. Previously we would see the likes of Cole and Robshaw continously standing in and passing from the base of breakdowns. Ford and Care are so much fitter no wthat they can get up from being tackled and get to the next breakdown such that they are involved much more than they ever were. All we need to do now is to make sure we actually present mauled ball in a way that does not allow opposition to slap the ball from the SH as happened to both Youngs and Care v Wales.

At Wasps last season George Smith and Christian Wade often filled in while Robson and Simpson were out of the game. Perhaps Jones just does not think the Wasps pair are fit enough?

Londontiger

As a centre, yes, Farrell Jr isn't a centre. He shouldn't be playing there. He had a shocker vs Wasps but recovered well.

I don't like Farrell's attitude, he's too petulant and too niggly but he's a decent 10.

I see Simpson as a more erratic version of Youngs and Care.

Geordiefalcon England fans have elevated it.

Bambam fortunately for Ashton he was too busy playing in a big game instead of a dead rubber.

Disappointing that an England vs Wales game was turned into a joke. It should matter. Not be some meaningless money spinner at the end of a season.

England vs Wales didn't involve Sarries players therefore it was pointless.

Very fortunate for Ashton that he has picked up a winners medal, and very fortunate for England and England fans that he's nowhere near getting in the side

Scottrf wrote:England vs Wales didn't involve Sarries players therefore it was pointless.

I know Ford kicked poorly at goal, but we were far from pointless

Scottrf wrote:England vs Wales didn't involve Sarries players therefore it was pointless.

It was a pointless because it was a dead rubber, merely a money spinner, a game with nothing on the line.

If you want to elevate the England vs Wales game and build up the importance then you can do so.

Couldn't be because there were Saints players involved?

Like I said

If Saracens players had been playing and performed well, I'm sure you would have been shouting from the rooftops about how Goode and Ashton deserve to start against the Aussies

No not really. Both players were too busy playing in an important game.

To be honest I think Goode should be starting vs the Aussies but I'll support Brown and the England team. Hope he does well.

Saracens did too well to be involved in the dead rubber vs Wales thankfully.

I agree, thankfully they weren't starting against Wales or you would have been bleating on for the last 2 weeks

beshocked wrote:

Geordiefalcon England fans have elevated it.

.

Some have yes, but mostly on here they haven't. When they're not wumming or being comedians most on here are fairly knowledgeable and realistic.

None would have said the Wales victory was benchmark performing...however you still need to acknowledge certain performances. Yard wasn't expected to even be in the squad, but produced a very strong performance.

So meaningless games like Wales are discounted? But I thought meaningless warm up games were the be all and end all?

Bambam why did you bring up Ashton? He's not in the England 23. I wouldn't have him ahead of Nowell or Watson anyway.

Ashton and Goode did well enough in the game that actually mattered but they are not in the 23.

Let's focus on the England 23.

It's England vs Australia - not the Chris Ashton thread.  Or let's have a pop at Beshocked thread. Create your own if you want to do that.

no 7 & 1/2 it's about context. RWC warm ups are more important than a game that's just been arranged to be a money spinner at the end of a long season.

WC warm ups aren't important at all hence why dubutants were allowed to start.

It's going to be good anyway. The Aussies won't be able to get away with their scrum tricks, hopefully Mako holds strong and we rule the lineout. Expect Farrell to surprise a few and actually make some breaks as well!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'd like both the Wasps guys to get a chance though. Simpson has really come on leaps and bounds in the last year.

Last season he was good, I don't think as much this season. His game management and passing can be outright awful at times, I'm not sure you can get away with that at the top level. Although Youngs does to a degree, he's much better than Youngs.

Nah, he was class up to his injury.

They are important if you utilise the warm ups correctly instead of ballsing them up like Lancaster did.

I do think England can rule the lineout. Farrell will need good service from Youngs.

I believe the key men for England will be Kruis,Haskell,B.Youngs and Burrell.

"hopefully Mako holds strong" - there is always a first I suppose. After England's scrum was well and truly embarrassed by Australia in the world cup I think we have plenty to prove there. Hartley's presence will help, but I don't see England dominating Australia which we were able to do when we won 2 or 3 games in England against Australia. I have seen nothing at the scrum that leads me to believe that Mako can scrummage at international level. At best he gets a few 50:50 penalties from the ref when he collapses.

Well there's the thing beshocked, unless it's something you agree, with it's a waste.

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:None of the backs bar Farrell fill me with confidence (it's not because he's a Saracen, it's because I think he's the only one whose been in good form!)

Yet barely a month ago you were moaning about Farrell's form and attitude.

Watson has not had a poor game for England this year, Yarde and Burrell have both been in form at the end of the season and Joseph will always provide a threat. Sure Youngs has been hot and cold - even within games - and Brown had been looking tired. However the back line we have selected offers a great deal of threat.

I have no worry about the backs, I am worreied about the back-row resources in the XXIII

Brown's form has been poor but if any game will bring the best out of his tired self, it will be this one. He looked tired before the match in which we beat Sarries this year too but the big game occasion helped him step up. I think if he plays badly or mediocrely tomorrow though, I'd personally give Goode or Watson at 15 a shot

[quote="LondonTiger"]

beshocked wrote:None of the backs bar Farrell fill me with confidence (it's not because he's a Saracen, it's because I think he's the only one whose been in good form!)

Yet barely a month ago you were moaning about Farrell's form and attitude.

Watson has not had a poor game for England this year, Yarde and Burrell have both been in form at the end of the season and Joseph will always provide a threat. Sure Youngs has been hot and cold - even within games - and Brown had been looking tired. However the back line we have selected offers a great deal of threat.

I have no worry about the backs, I am worried about the back-row resources in the XXIII[/quote]

If you mean coverage from the bench, it might be a non-issue as my money's on Launchbury coming on to replace probably Haskell, possibly Robshaw, with Itoje moving to the back row to accommodate him alongside Kruis.

Just seeing people moan about Yarde, I understand their hesitation and whilst I would not of dropped Nowell Yarde has been one of Quins best players this season. He doesn't always cross the line but in terms or beating defenders and gain line success hes fantastic.

Brown has been poor for club this season (He has not been himself since the KO) but he doesn't play bad for England and is the rock at the back.

=]

Bit worried about this one. They had us on toast last year and the Kiwi game just showed the SH gap is still there.

Australia aren't NZ and England dominated Wales too.

I think we'll lose this one, just hoping for an entertaining game like the NZ/Wales one

We got destroyed in the breakdown last time, that's the biggest area of concern for me.

We probably will again this time and youngs will get the blame