Leicester Tigers 2016/17 thread.

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :

2016/17:
Director of Rugby: Richard Cockerill
Head Coach: Aaron Mauger
Assistant Backs Coach: Geordan Murphy
Assistant Forward Coach: Richard Blaze
Defence and Scrum Half Coach: Scott Hansen
Head of Rugby Operations: Ged Glynn
Team manager: Matt Cornwall

2016/17 Senior Squad: (Confirmed So Far) (Blue = EQP)
Hookers: Bateman, McGuigan, Thacker, Youngs
Props: Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara Cilliers, Cole, Genge, Mulipola, Rizzo
Locks: Barrow, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
Back Row: Croft, Fonua, Hamilton McCaffrey, O'Connor, Williams
Scrum Half: Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
Fly Half: Burns, Williams
Centre: Catchpole, Roberts, Smith, Toomua, Tuilagi
Back 3: Betham, Brady, Pieterson, Tait, Thompstone, Veainu
Squad number: 37, EQP: 24, Academy products: 8

Transfers
IN: (7)
McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons), Cilliers (Montpelier), Genge (Bristol), Hamilton (Agen), Toomua (ACT Brumbies). JP Pieterson (Sharks), Brady (Sale)

OUT: (12)
Ghiraldini (Toulouse), Pasquali (Treviso), De Chaves (London Irish), Crane (Bristol), Pearce (Sale), Bell (London Irish), Baikeinuku (retirement), De Villiers (Retirement), Benjamin (retirement), Morris (N/A), Camacho (N/A), Goneva (Newcastle Falcons)

Not Sure: (No official confirmation of leaving or Staying) 3
Aguero, Sio Loamanu,

Rumours:
Harry Wells (Bedford) Lock/6

2016/17 Development Squad: (15)
Bryant, Evans, Hills, Lewis, Mahoney, Maksymiw, J.Olowofela, R. Olowofela, Owen, Simmons, Thacker, Tuilagi, White, Worth, Yawayawa

Transfer
IN: (7)
Lewis, Mahoney, J.Olowofela, R. Olowofela, Simmons, White, Yawayawa

OUT: 11
Odogwu (sale), Beckett (Glous), Povoas (Coventry), Tresidder (Rotherham Titans), Douglas, Farnworth, Galletly, Hogan, Murrin, Nairn, Priestley-Nangle.


Academy
Academy Head Coach/forwards Coach: Brett Deacon
Academy Backs Coach: Anthony Allen

[Welly]

Mike Williams might have a chance with England. Doubt it but it is a possibility.

[king_carlos]

I think Jones will stick with fitting Itoje, Lawes, Launchbury, Haskell, Hughes and Clifford into the 5 starting shirts and 2 bench spots.

Add in Tom Wood having performed well on his latest England outings and I think we will have Mike back for Quins.

I'd be interested to see how he'd step up and think he'd perform well but I can't see it happening without injuries. Were Billy not due to return for the end of the tournament it might have been more of a possibility as Mike could take some carrying pressure of Hughes.

[formerly known as Sam]

He's big and physical which Eddie likes and against Italy might be the ideal time to give him a run out and a chance to impress. The England pack have looked good so far but not as dominant as last season.

[king_carlos]

From Mauger in the Merc - Freddie fit for the Quins game. Kitchener (anyone know what Kitch knocked?) and Will Evans are still out injured. Nothing mentioned about McCaffery.

After arguing earlier that Mike Williams will be available, could the Friday KO affect whether Mauger will start him if he's released?

[Gooseberry]

Mike Williams might have a chance with England. Doubt it but it is a possibility.

He has been on the fringe for the whole season, but it would be a miracle if he gets in a matchday squad for the 6 nations. Argentina tour though I think he will get a cap if fit (assuming a few tour with the Lions and likely a few will require injury rehad/operations over the summer) despite Englands depth of options in his positions.

[formerly known as Sam]

Tigers (v Harlequins, away, Friday 7.45pm)
15 Telusa Veainu
14 Adam Thompstone
13 Peter Betham
12 Maxime Mermoz
11 J P Pietersen
10 Freddie Burns
9 Sam Harrison
1 Ellis Genge
2 George McGuigan
3 Greg Bateman
4 Harry Wells
5 Dom Barrow (c)
6 Mike Fitzgerald
7 Brendon O'Connor
8 Lachlan McCaffrey

Replacements
16 Tom Youngs
17 Riccardo Brugnara
18 Pat Cilliers
19 Mike Williams
20 Luke Hamilton
21 Jono Kitto
22 Owen Williams
23 Matt Smith

[formerly known as Sam]

15. Aaron Morris
14. Marland Yarde
13. Joe Marchant
12. Matt Hopper
11. Alofa Alofa
10. Nick Evans
9. Charlie Mulchrone

1. Mark Lambert
2. Rob Buchanan
3. Adam Jones
4. George Merrick
5. Charlie Matthews
6. James Chisholm
7. Dave Ward (C)
8. Mat Luamanu

16. Joe Gray
17. Owen Evans
18. Matt Shields
19. Stan South
20. George Naoupu
21. Luc Jones
22. Ruaridh Jackson
23. Charlie Walker

[formerly known as Sam]

That's quite a lot of rotation for us with a few getting some rest and some younger players getting a go. Betham and McCaffery come back in after sitting out the last couple.

[propdavid_london]

I don't think you will have much to worry you Sam!
Quins are on a downward spiral.

[Welly]

Barrow for me should be club captain next season.

[formerly known as Sam]

Barrow for me should be club captain next season.

He has impressed in that role of late. Could well take the mantle on for next season as Tom Youngs doesn't really suit the role.

I'm not sure why we've gone for the three lock strategy against a team as mobile as Quins. I fear we may regret that even with the "downward spiral" Quins are enduring. Still there's some forward impact on that bench so hopefully we can muscle our way to victory. Nice to see Wells get a run out.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Quite a turnaround for Barrow, hes been a real success for you. Wasnt overly impressed with him at Falcons but hes development has been steady and impressive.

Not many players have left us of late and actually kicked on.

[formerly known as Sam]

Quite a turnaround for Barrow, hes been a real success for you. Wasnt overly impressed with him at Falcons but hes development has been steady and impressive.

Not many players have left us of late and actually kicked on.

Once we got him to stop giving away moronic penalties he's been good. Starting to really grow into a leader in the team. Impressed with him since his return from concussion. At this rate Eddie will be having a look for the summer tour.

[king_carlos]

Barrow for me should be club captain next season.

+1

One of first names on the team sheet. Leading by example is what the side needs right now and what he'd do. He also adds some right and aggression to our pack which has been missing for most the season.

[Gooseberry]

Quite a turnaround for Barrow, hes been a real success for you. Wasnt overly impressed with him at Falcons but hes development has been steady and impressive.

Not many players have left us of late and actually kicked on.

And not many players have joined Tigers and really kicked on either.

[broadlandboy]

Don't know about that. Veainu, Thompston, both Williams, Roberts & Genge have all seen an improvement

[Geordie]

Im glad to see Barrow really pushing on. He had huge potential and played some fantastic games for us...he just seemed to have a bad time with injuries that didn't let him get the regular games he needed to make that push on.

I always thought he could be a challenger for an England spot if he got everything sorted because he's a massive powerful guy and yet very athletic to go with it. Im pretty sure he played a lot of Lacrosse when he was younger.

[Welly]

Quite a turnaround for Barrow, hes been a real success for you. Wasnt overly impressed with him at Falcons but hes development has been steady and impressive.

Not many players have left us of late and actually kicked on.

And not many players have joined Tigers and really kicked on either.

What are you on about?

[Gooseberry]

I meant recently. Ive been pretty underwhelmed by how many big or biggish name prospects have come to Tigers and really devleoped.
Given the number of players theyve been getting through has massively increased too theres very few who have arrived and really kicked on in the way thats hoped, or did a few years previously.

OK Genge would be a definate exception., and Mike Williams too....both arrived at an age and stage in their career where they were best placed to make that step up though. In Geneges case he was already on the England pathway when he joined.

Im not sure you can really cite Owen Williams though .. he arrived as the golden boy and future of Welsh rugby. Hes stilljust a decent premiership level fly half whos going to remain second choice. I dont see any real development that youd expect from a player as young as he was when he joined through experience.

Personaly Ive been dissaponted with Tigers ability to develope players both internaly (now I know Im on safe ground mentioning the academy failings...even the ones who have broken into the first team like Thacker havenot taken it to the level that the generation before did) and taking their signings up a level.

Im being harsh and it was a bit of an off the cuff comment but Tigers seem to have become a revolving door of talent over the last few years. Which is common across the Premiership. But Saracens, Wasps and Exeter are not better just through signing superstar players...they have done a better job of developing internal and external products. Its something Tigers of 5+ years ago excelled at and why they consitently stayed a top club in the premiership without relying on ready made superstar signings.

[Welly]

Owen Williams was never the golden boy and future of Welsh rugby when he came to us. Scarlets prob viewed him as the future yet hardly played him only used him in LV cup hence why when he came he was 3rd choice 10, he developed into a prem starting 10 who has played in a Euorpean Quarter final and managed to get himself into the Welsh squad despite playing in England. How can you say you haven't seen any develop based on this limited senior game time at Scarlets. (LV Cup is hardly a realistic comparison to league rugby).

 in what universe was Owen the golden boy of Welsh rugby?

Have wasps been better at developing talent within? When was the last time an academy player has made it to the match day 23 regularly? Wade, Jones, Daly, all came through about 4 years ago who has come through since?

[nathan]

Burns has been pretty Poopie so far

[nathan]

And stupid by Barrow

[nathan]

It's in touch!

[formerly known as Sam]

It's in touch!

Very surprised that they didn't review that (I saw it in a bar without commentaty).

The high tackle on TV seemed the overlooked as well, so much for the new laws causing an increased number of pens.

[nathan]

Tigers are so dumb, quins using a rush defence and yet we pass along the line and nearly get intercepted. Why are we not chipping over?

[Heaf]

It's in touch!

sure was - never ceases to amaze me that officials can review something and get it so wrong ... spent all the time looking at the grounding when it was clear and obvious the ball hit the line before hitting the post - gross incompetence ...

[nathan]

Think that should of been a red, player hit head and had to go for HIA. surely in an outcome situation that's red.

[nathan]

Shame JP cocked up that score

[formerly known as Sam]

Not a perfect game but a damn good result. We looked really good once we stopped deploying three locks and brought Williams on. That worked well until late on when we should have probably used our replacement props as Genge and Bateman had got through a massive shift. 

If we can start with that more direct playing style and get our forwards coming on to the ball at pace from the start and then look wide later rather than from the start I think we'll get more joy. Defence was much improved.

[king_carlos]

Brizzle have done us a big favour today. Now 1 point behind Bath and 8 clear of Saints.

Prem run-in - Chiefs (H), Saints (A), Bath (A), Falcons (H), Sale (H), Warriors (A)

Those next three Prem games are all huge battles. Chiefs at Welford Road on a Friday night will be feisty. The Saints derby was a game that Cockers always got a gutsy performance out the squad for - it will be a pressure game for Mauger. If those two go well then visiting Bath could be a chance to solidify 4th place rather than claim it given that Bath have Wasps (at the rec) and Sarries (at Allianz Park with Internationals back) between now and then.

There is also the AWC semi against Sarries between the Chiefs and Saints games. It's a great time to play Sarries but Allianz Park isn't a happy place for Tigers.

[formerly known as Sam]

It'll be interesting to see whether we see a more settled side for the these big games and then rotate over the AWC or we keep a rotation week to week and look to win every game as opposed to targeting the AP.

[LondonTiger]

Right now I am happy to adopt a one game at a time approach.

Massive fixture on Friday and if we can win we can start to believe we could make Top 4 - especially with Bath looking so poor right now.

[formerly known as Sam]

If we can get a win from Chiefs on Friday and deny them a LBP that will be a massive result for us. That has to be the priority. Also a rare visit to WR on match day for me. Bath are struggling because of call ups and the suspensions for Kahn and Louw and we do need to capitalise.

[king_carlos]

Now that the squad has enough players fit for competition I think there will be more rotation game to game. There are a lot of players now fit who would deserve being selected.

Loose-head is the only place lacking options at the moment. If Rizzo is available this weekend that'd some welcome depth.

Second row and back row are well stocked with in form players.

Kitchener isn't meant to be far off so may return for the Sarries game to partner Wells. With McGuigan in good form it'd be a good chance to see Thacker at 7. Could it be another case of a flanker wearing 16 with Thacker technically the second hooker in the squad?

[formerly known as Sam]

Cilliers is back fit and in the paper bigging up the influence of Stanko at training. Our scrum has looked rock solid since he's come in. 

Hypothetically should we be making a bid for James O'Connor? Available, has issues but is an excellent player that can play anywhere in the backline.

[LondonTiger]

Hypothetically should we be making a bid for James O'Connor? Available, has issues but is an excellent player that can play anywhere in the backline.

Two reasons I would say no:

1) Cost
2) Worries he is the sort of character who could be disruptive.


Both could be addressed as he is a talent, but is he what we need?

[LondonTiger]

Team for tomorrow:

TV, thompstone, Smith, Mermoz, JPP, OwenW, Kitto, Hamilton, BOC, Croft, Barrow, Fitz, Bateman, OTY(c), Risso

Bench: McGuigan, Genge, Cilliers, MikeW, Locky, Shazam, Burns, Betham

[formerly known as Sam]

Hypothetically should we be making a bid for James O'Connor? Available, has issues but is an excellent player that can play anywhere in the backline.

Two reasons I would say no:

1) Cost
2) Worries he is the sort of character who could be disruptive.

Both could be addressed as he is a talent, but is he what we need?

A goal kicking fullback that can also play 10/12/13 and wing to a high standard. Has experience in the prem and can lead a backline. Personal issues are a concern but Genge had adapted well here and O'Connor was excellent during his spell at LI. Cost is very much the big issue for me but with Tait and both 10's off and only Ford coming in there should be some wiggle room.

Side for tomorrow looks good. Still no Slater, Kitch and Thacker though. Not heard any injury updates.

[king_carlos]

It's a good side. I'm glad that Croft is in against Chiefs as he improves our line-out in attack and defence. His maul defence is also very good.

I'd have started Williams instead of Fitzgerald at lock though. In fairness Fitz has improved in the last couple of weeks, Barrow returning has taken some weight off his shoulders for sure.

Kitto vs Shazam is a fine balancing act to judge for the coaches. Shazam is the better player but will more often feature in the 23 when Lenny is back which is probably taken into account when Kitto gets starts during these periods. Kitto is a talented 9 with a good attacking game but his kicking is often shocking.

It's great having three 9s at the club who are good enough to start but it's a tough balance to keep them all happy.

Good to see Smith back in the starting line-up. It will be interesting to see how he and Mermoz link up.

[king_carlos]

Side for tomorrow looks good. Still no Slater, Kitch and Thacker though. Not heard any injury updates.

Read something (Merc I think) earlier in the week that said Slater wasn't going to make the Chiefs game. Same article that said Cilliers was 50/50 at that point.

There was a passing comment last week about Kitch and Evans not quite being ready but that they weren't far off.

Did Harry take a head-knock or is that just me imagining things?

[LondonTiger]

Problem with starting MikeW (or Genge) is we have no idea when England actually released them from the Oxford camp.

[formerly known as Sam]

The England squad boys also bring impact off the bench so I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing not to rush them in to the starting line up.

I'm happier with Fitz at lock than I am with him at six. He likes to get involved around the tight exchanges so him and Barrow should be good in the engine room against the Chiefs. 

I can't remember Harry picking up a knock... that doesn't mean much  though.

[king_carlos]

Problem with starting MikeW (or Genge) is we have no idea when England actually released them from the Oxford camp.

Think it was announced on Tuesday that they had been released back to their club along with Slade, Mako, Watson, etc.

That doesn't give any guarantee of when they were back in full training with Tigers or whether they had taken a slight knock in training. Tuesday is usually double session and contact in England camps so whether they were released at the start or end of the day would be a significant factor.

[LondonTiger]

I thought the announcement was that they [i]would/[i] be released to play, but at the same time it said the training camp was Monday to Friday.

[LondonTiger]

Exeter Chiefs: 15 Phil Dollman, 14 Olly Woodburn, 13 Ian Whitten, 12 Ollie Devoto, 11 James Short, 10 Henry Slade, 9 Stuart Townsend; 1 Carl Rimmer, 2 Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3 Harry Williams, 4 Mitch Lees, 5 Geoff Parling, 6 Don Armand (c), 7 Kai Horstmann, 8 Thomas Waldrom
Replacements: 16 Jack Yeandle, 17 Ben Moon, 18 Tomas Francis, 19 Jonny Hill, 20 Sam Simmonds, 21 Jack Maunder, 22 Joe Simmonds, 23 Sam Hill

[formerly known as Sam]

Big Exeter backrow but with those two 8's they won't be massively keen to chase around in defence. Could put a lot of pressure on Armand to keep a high tackle count and jackle for the ball.

[formerly known as Sam]

The only thing worse than being 27-8 down is deserving to be 27-8 down. Exeter have played intelligently and right up to the limits of the law. We've given away dim penalties. Chiefs have mixed their attacking play whilst we've gone straight through the middle. Exeter have a disciplined and fast defensive line and we well don't have a defensive line.

What is really annoying is that we're not getting any of the 50/50 decisions and I've yet to see a Tigers player question anything with the ref, Armand is in his ear and is their 9. Chiefs were offside for most of the first 20 mins and neither did we get a decision nor did we ask the ref to look at the Chiefs line. Infuriating.

[king_carlos]

Tigers three home premiership losses this season have been to Wasps, Sarries and Chiefs. Even playing poorly we are still clinging to top 4 aspirations but to challenge the title this squad will need to challenge those top 3 sides and currently there is a big gap between those 3 sides to ourselves.

Let's just hope that Wasps can put on a similar showing at the Rec to the one Exeter showed us tonight.

Small positives

Veainu was well shackled but performed solidly in poor conditions. A good all round full backs performance IMO.

Mike Williams was everywhere when he came on. He carried as well as I've seen him for the club, especially given how good the Exeter defence was.

Tombstone continued his consistently excellent form for the season. Between TV, JPP and Thompstone we have an excellent first choice back three.

[formerly known as Sam]

Mike Williams looked pumped up well before he came on. From early in the game he was doing his warm up with only blue bib on ready for action. Shame we took Croft off though he was one of our best players on the night.

Hats off to Baxter and his team of coaches. Before the game they spent a large amount of the warm up on defensive line drills and players going high into contact to be driven on and down by support players. Key aspects that allowed them to dominate the gain line battle. I hope our coaches recorded those drills and steal the ideas because we have the players to do just that to other teams.

Our second half fight back started and finished with Harrison. I really hope he is OK because we desperately need him, Kitto's passing was embarrassingly poor unlike his kicking which was very good (when he eventually manned up and took responsibility).

[Welly]

Honestly wish we didn't renew O'Connor and Fitzgerald contracts both fine players but both are more hard ground running forwards.

To win this league and Europe you need dog (like Sarries and Burger) and that is something we are lacking in the back 5 forwards wise outside of Barrow and Mike Williams.

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