Wales thread continued - 2017/18 season

[mikey_dragon]

First topic message reminder :

2017/2018 season results (full fixture list posted below).

Wales 21 - 29 Australia
Wales 13 - 6 Georgia
Wales 18 - 33 New Zealand
Wales 24 - 22 South Africa

Wales 2018 6N Squad:
Forwards: Rob Evans (Scarlets), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Elliot Dee (Dragons), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Seb Davies (Cardiff Blues), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, capt), James Davies (Scarlets), Taulupe Faletau (Bath), Ellis Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys).

Backs: Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Bath), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Owen Watkin (Ospreys), Owen Williams (Gloucester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Josh Adams (Worcester Warriors), Hallam Amos (Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Steff Evans (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets), George North (Northampton Saints), Liam Williams (Saracens).

Faletau, Biggar expected to be available later on in the tournament. Amos, L Williams perhaps a little sooner.

Call-ups to cover injuries, etc.
Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I thought we'd start with the Autumn series. Gatland the Great is set to return and shake things up after another disappointing season underneath the Howler and his pal McBryde. The fixtures for this series are as follows:

November 2017
Sat 11th Nov 17 17:15
Wales   v   Australia  
Sat 18th Nov 17 14:30
Wales   v   Georgia
Sat 25th Nov 17 17:15
Wales   v   New Zealand
December 2017
Sat 2nd Dec 17 14:30
Wales   v   South Africa

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well there's no time like now so why not. Last year was a bit disappointing, topped off with an unsuccessful tour to NZ (as expected). Whilst I'm hoping for better this season my expectations are low as we have Howler and some other amateurs in charge who got the job because they were mates with Gatland and others in the WRU.

AI's
Wales V Australia 05/11/2016
8 - 32
Wales V Argentina 12/11/2016
24 - 20
Wales V Japan 19/11/2016
33 - 30
Wales V South Africa 26/11/2016
27 - 13

6 Nations
Italy V Wales 05/02/2017
7 - 33
Wales V England 11/02/2017
16 - 21
Scotland V Wales 25/02/2017
29 - 13
Wales V Ireland 10/03/2017
22 - 9
France V Wales 18/03/2017
20 -18

Very tough AI series but a kind start in the 6N. So far this season Blues and Ospreys look good, but how many of their players will be starters for Wales? Cuthbert is starting to look like his old self and if this continues he could come back into the team. Tomos Williams looks like a good player and if he also continues in this vein then might he take advantage of Gareth Davies' supposed rustiness? It's still early days but going by what I've seen and the reports I've read I would like to see a new centre partnership and also perhaps see our old back 3 of North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny reinstated - although a lot could happen between now and November. With Faletau out I think we can all guess who the wildcards will be, but who does that leave to play at No.8 - possibly Warburton with Ellis Jenkins at 7? What changes (if any) would you like to see? Keep it sensible please.

WALES 2016 UNDER ARMOUR SERIES SQUAD
Prop Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues) (12 Caps) Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs) (14 Caps) Rhys Gill (Cardiff Blues) (6 Caps) Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues) (126 Caps) Samson Lee (Scarlets) (28 Caps) Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (3 Caps)
Hooker Scott Baldwin (Ospreys) (24 Caps) Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues) (3 Caps) Ken Owens (Scarlets) (42 Caps)
Second Row Jake Ball (Scarlets) (20 Caps) Luke Charteris (Bath Rugby) (68 Caps) Bradley Davies (Ospreys) (56 Caps) Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) (102 Caps) Rory Thornton (Ospreys) (UNCAPPED)
Back Row Dan Baker (Ospreys) (3 Caps) Taulupe Faletau* (Bath Rugby) (61 Caps) James King (Ospreys) (8 Caps) Dan Lydiate (Ospreys) (57 Caps) Ross Moriarty (Gloucester) (9 Caps) Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (43 Caps) Sam Warburton (CAPT) (Cardiff Blues) (67 Caps)
Scrum Half Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (17 Caps) Rhys Webb (Ospreys) (22 Caps) Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues) (27 Caps)
Fly Half Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues) (8 Caps) Dan Biggar (Ospreys) (48 Caps) Sam Davies (Ospreys) (UNCAPPED)
Centre Jonathan Davies (Scarlets) (56 Caps) Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons) (3 Caps) Jamie Roberts* (Harlequins) (83 Caps) Scott Williams (Scarlets) (38 Caps)
Wing/Full Back Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons) (10 Caps) Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues) (42 Caps) Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon) (62 Caps) George North* (Northampton Saints) (62 Caps) Liam Williams (Scarlets) (35 Caps) * Denotes Senior Player Selection Policy wildcard selection.
Ospreys wing Keelan Giles, Cardiff Blues full-back Rhun Williams and Dragons pair Leon Brown and Harrison Keddie will train with the Wales squad.  

June summer tour
Tonga 6 - 24 Wales
Samoa 17 - 19 Wales

[BigTrevsbigmac]

With the new talk of Alex King becoming attack coach for Wales 2017 6Ns. I think the WRU are fast becoming a retirement home for my beloved Wasps.

Can we have Dai Young then please?

I think Dai will be more than happy to stay at Wasps for a while yet. He stayed through the real bad times & now has a real decent squad of players to pick from.
I'm surprised not many Welsh fans have mentioned his son though. He really is an outstanding 7. Deceptively quick, good rugby brain & would really make an impact if Wales 'really' wanted to go for a quicker tempo game.

Faletau, Young & Moriarty would work.

Same issue with Owen Williams above.  There are better players currently playing in Wales who will be available for all Wales camps so unless he moves back home, he is unlikely to be selected[/quote

I would argue he is the equal of Moriarty & he is being selected & probably first choice albeit in a different position. In Youngs position I would only put Tipuric ahead of him currently.
Maybe a swap with Underhill would work. He is just back playing isn't he?

More evidence this afternoon & wol have latched onto it to......

[LordDowlais]

Looks like both Wales home games against England and Ireland in the 6N are already sold out even the £100 one's. Some tickets have also gone on re-sale for over £1000 FFS. How can that be legal ?

[RiscaGame]

It's a WRU officially sanctioned site. If people are dull enough to pay £100 anyway, it's bad enough. There's obviously demand for it.

[mikey_dragon]

I'd like to see some changes in personnel in the coaching team, but that won't happen so I think our best way to improve is to change some personnel in the team. As I've stated elsewhere I'd like to see Shingler come back in if he continues in that form, playing alongside Warburton and Faletau. Tips and Moriarty next in line.

The major changes should be in the backline. Personally speaking I think we need to forget about North and Cuthbert. North looks disinterested half the time and is one concussion away from an early retirement, whilst Cuthbert is still useless as shown on the summer tour. Stef Evans looked like a rabbit in the headlights but I think he can improve, whilst Giles was not even given a shot, well done McBryde... With this in mind I expect Halfpenny and Liam Williams will retain their places in the back 3. Roberts on recent form shouldn't be anywhere near the team and opposition defences just shut him out too easily these days, whilst Scott Williams was also disappointing on the summer tour. I'd hope that Gats is considering the double fly-half option here, he could slot Owen Williams or Patchell in at 12 but I think Patchell is best at full-back.

[BamBam]

Who are the options at wing outside of those mentioned? Amos looked good a while ago, what's happened to him?

[mikey_dragon]

Who are the options at wing outside of those mentioned? Amos looked good a while ago, what's happened to him?

He was injured almost all of last season. If he can regain his form then yeah he's a good option but I'm not sure Gats is a big fan. He's occasionally been flaky for Wales but I think that was due to inexperience dealing with contrasting playing styles. Another option would be putting Ospreys-bound Cory Allen on the wing but I see that as more of a last resort. Patchell came in for us at 15 before and looked great, I'm hoping he can still do that if called upon.

[Guest]

There's Steff Evans too. I know Mikey isn't a huge fan (I think - comments after the Samoa game Mikey?), but he's been ripping up the Pro12 this year. Very exciting prospect.

Amos - he scored and was involved in some really classy tries for the Dragons, which is saying something in a team that has been generally poor - so I hope he can get back to his best. Question marks over his defense but in attack he's a cracking player. Ashton Hewitt also at the Dragons has linked well with Amos when both fit (recurring theme here). One for the future too potentially.

There was a lot of hype about Keelan Giles too. A small, Shane Williams style player but again injury has seen him go off the radar a little (in the media/discussion forums, etc.). Very exciting player with space in front of him.

There's a Scarlets player (name escapes me now - Tom Williams?) that stepped up last season and looked quite good. Scored a few tries. Think he's a fullback also. Not saying he's Wales potential yet but looked quite good. To be honest a number of the Scarlets backs look sh*t hot, which is testament to the coaching by Stephen Jones. He's got them playing a lovely brand of rugby. Lots of players cutting good angles, hitting the ball at pace, always with a few men/options on each shoulder. Very enjoyable to watch.

So long story short - there are a number of potential options but none I would say are definite international class yet. I think this season will see a few of them break through.

[mikey_dragon]

There's Steff Evans too.  I know Mikey isn't a huge fan (I think - comments after the Samoa game Mikey?), but he's been ripping up the Pro12 this year.  Very exciting prospect.  

Amos - he scored and was involved in some really classy tries for the Dragons, which is saying something in a team that has been generally poor - so I hope he can get back to his best.  Question marks over his defense but in attack he's a cracking player.  Ashton Hewitt also at the Dragons has linked well with Amos when both fit (recurring theme here).  One for the future too potentially.

There was a lot of hype about Keelan Giles too.  A small, Shane Williams style player but again injury has seen him go off the radar a little (in the media/discussion forums, etc.).  Very exciting player with space in front of him.

There's a Scarlets player (name escapes me now - Tom Williams?) that stepped up last season and looked quite good. Scored a few tries.  Think he's a fullback also.  Not saying he's Wales potential yet but looked quite good.  To be honest a number of the Scarlets backs look sh*t hot, which is testament to the coaching by Stephen Jones.  He's got them playing a lovely brand of rugby.  Lots of players cutting good angles, hitting the ball at pace, always with a few men/options on each shoulder.  Very enjoyable to watch.  

So long story short - there are a number of potential options but none I would say are definite international class yet.  I think this season will see a few of them break through.

Steff Evans has been ripping it up in the league, very good player, but he was very poor in both June tests. I still think he has the potential to be a good player for us though. I'd like us to go for quicker and more agile wingers over North/Cuthbert - I rate Ashton Hewitt highly too.

[LordDowlais]

Steff Evans has been ripping it up in the league, very good player, but he was very poor in both June tests.

He took his chances against Samoa well I thought. the conditions were not the best, but he crossed over twice.

[mikey_dragon]

Steff Evans has been ripping it up in the league, very good player, but he was very poor in both June tests.

He took his chances against Samoa well I thought. the conditions were not the best, but he crossed over twice.

He looked well out of his depth, just because a player can finish a try it doesn't mean he had a good game. His attempted kick out after time was up sums his overall performance for me, not good enough but as I said he's been very good in the league so I think he still has potential to do better. Both Davies' at halfback were by far our worst players on tour so I'm hoping they don't feature soon.

[mikey_dragon]

Big news in that Warburton is out for 4 months through under-going neck surgery. He will miss all four autumn tests. I expect AWJ will continue as captain, with Ken Owens possibly another option. That leaves a slot open at 7 for an open-side. Ellis Jenkins and James Davies currently injured and will also miss the AI series as far as I know. Tipuric will probably start. The other two flankers I'd like to see involved are Navidi and Griffiths, with Shingler at 6. Another pair of Scarlets who must be involved on recent form are Stef Evans and Patchell; Patch to cover 10,12 and 15. No Roberts or Williams at centre please.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41241886

[LordDowlais]

Sorry, but for me, it is time for Sam Warburton to call it a day, before he does himself some serious mischief.

He is constantly injured, and on the back of this, it looks as though he will be ready for the 6N where he should not be playing, but will get picked regardless. For his own sake, he needs to look himself in the mirror and ask how much more can I take.

A brilliant captain, and a great servant not just to Welsh rugby, but Lions as well. Time to hang those boots up now Sam.

[mikey_dragon]

I said he needed a sabbatical, I suppose he is sort of getting a 4 month one, but he should take the rest of the season off too IMO. Calling it day would be extreme.

[LordDowlais]

I said he needed a sabbatical, I suppose he is sort of getting a 4 month one, but he should take the rest of the season off too IMO. Calling it day would be extreme.

Take a look at his injury record. It's abysmal.

People were saying in Cardiff last year that they want to see more of Ellis Jenkins now anyway, as Sam Warburton hardly ever plays for the Blues anymore. He needs to ask himself some serious questions otherwise when he hits his mid life crisis, he will confined to a walking stick, or worse.

I think he should go into coaching, imagine the wealth of knowledge he could share with Ellis Jenkins, Ollie Griffiths, James Davies ect.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

'Confined to a walking stick'?

[LordDowlais]

'Confined to a walking stick'?

yep.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

'Confined'?

[LordDowlais]

'Confined'?

Feck me, it's just a play on words, I was going to say confined to a wheel chair, but I thought it would have been a bit harsh. What is it with this place ?

It's like being in a fricking grammar school on times.

Look out the grammar police are about.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

But you can't be confined to a walking stick.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Anyway, I'd be happy with a back row of Shingler, Tipuric and Faletau.

[Gwlad]

Moriarty needs to get fit soon as...this is his big opportunity to cement himself. A Moriarty, Tipuric, Faleatu back row will be awesome.

[mikey_dragon]

Anyway, I'd be happy with a back row of Shingler, Tipuric and Faletau.

Me too. Replacement back-row though?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

A few stats:

'The Dragons showed signs of attacking spark in Scotland with Hewitt beating nine defenders, the most by any player in the weekend of PRO14 action, and Amos and centre Tyler Morgan making three clean breaks each.'

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/15529834.Wales_wing_Amos__Dragons_have_to_be_ruthless_to_bag_elusive_win/

[mikey_dragon]

Maybe SS can help here, but does a certain Scarlets full back become eligible for Wales any time soon?

[ScarletSpiderman]

Maybe SS can help here, but does a certain Scarlets full back become eligible for Wales any time soon?

J Mac came over last December/Jan I think, so he has another 2 years or so before he becomes Welsh.  However he could well be capped by Scotland before then, as he is SQ.

(Also with the Scarlets NWQs: Barclay, Beirne and Kurger are internationally tied.  Parkes is WQ in Dec 17, BulbringNov/Dev 18, McNicholl Dec/Jan 19)

[LordDowlais]

OK, now that it has been deemed acceptable to post links again, back on to the Sam Warbuton subject, and his injury record, I found this topic on WOL as quite startling, now we all know Sam is the darling of Welsh rugby so WOL have no reason to be negative towards him. Take a read, you might find it very interesting:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/truth-behind-sam-warburtons-injuries-13613814

[TightHEAD]

When was the last time Warburton played for the Blues?

[maestegmafia]

There could be a few surprise candidates and a few fresh faces in the Welsh squad this autumn. Plenty of players looking good at the Arms Park last night.

Leon Brown, Elliot Dee, Seb Davies, Ollie Griffiths, Tomos Williams, Gavin Henson, Tyler Morgan Tom James Alex Cuthbert, Hallum Amos, Matthew Morgan.

[LordDowlais]

The player I reckon that will be the bolter for the AI's will be Will Boyde, especially when you consider the injuries we have in the back row.

[maestegmafia]

The player I reckon that will be the bolter for the AI's will be Will Boyde, especially when you consider the injuries we have in the back row.

Good call. But there are some very tidy flankers, Boyd, Griffiths, Cracknell. Nalvidi and Shingler are having a good start to the season too.

Seb Davies has been very impressive, he would be my bolster for the AIs

[mikey_dragon]

James, Cuthbert and MM can stay the hell away from the Wales squad. Guys like Brown, Dee and Seb Davies are certainly sticking their hands up though - I would select all three. Warburton, Jenkins and Moriarty are out so Shingler should remain, with perhaps Griffiths and Boyde coming in although not at the expense of Navidi or Tips (I’m not sure how many back row players we’ll pick).

In the backs Patchell to come into the starting team for me. Henson? Still a good enough player it seems and much better than RP and Sam Davies, but he might be considered too old. Either way we need fresh impetus in the midfield which means leaving out Scott Williams and Roberts.

[maestegmafia]

James, Cuthbert and MM can stay the hell away from the Wales squad. Guys like Brown, Dee and Seb Davies are certainly sticking their hands up though - I would select all three. Warburton, Jenkins and Moriarty are out so Shingler should remain, with perhaps Griffiths and Boyde coming in although not at the expense of Navidi or Tips (I’m not sure how many back row players we’ll pick).

In the backs Patchell to come into the starting team for me. Henson? Still a good enough player it seems and much better than RP and Sam Davies, but he might be considered too old. Either way we need fresh impetus in the midfield which means leaving out Scott Williams and Roberts.

James and cuthbrt are both at their best and playing well. Whether they are worthy of a place or not they are both playing the best rugby we have seen from them in a while.

Could Henson play inside centre and form a dynamic partnership with Jd2

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Elliot Dee has to get called up. Four tries and two man-of-the-match awards in 6 games tells its own tale. He does his job at set piece and he's excellent in the loose.

Leon Brown trained with the Wales squad before he'd even played in the league for the Dragons, so he has to be in contention you'd think.

Also, for all the talk of Ollie Griffiths, I wonder if James Benjamin isn't in with a sniff.

[munkian]

I think Dee and Brown have trained with the senior squad previously - though Dee may have missed out through injury.

Hopefully Dacey and Dee will keep Baldwin out of the squad.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I'm not sure that Dee has. Brown and Keddie definitely did.

[Gwlad]

I honestly think Henson may have done enough to get a call. He is still superb at reading. a game and had crucial assists in 2 tries. Scott Williams has not made 12 his own and Jamie os done, Henson is still fit and offers so much creativity on the ball that I can see Gets thinking that a 12 who can play 10 would be a distinct advantage as it was for the Lions.

[maestegmafia]

Elliot Dee has to get called up. Four tries and two man-of-the-match awards in 6 games tells its own tale. He does his job at set piece and he's excellent in the loose.

Leon Brown trained with the Wales squad before he'd even played in the league for the Dragons, so he has to be in contention you'd think.

Also, for all the talk of Ollie Griffiths, I wonder if James Benjamin isn't in with a sniff.

Aye Benjamin is looking good too.

[munkian]

Looks like we have potential injuries to Webb, North and Baker.

Not that Baker should be anywhere near the squad.

[Rugby Fan]

Looks like we have potential injuries to Webb, North and Baker.

Not that Baker should be anywhere near the squad.

North didn't look good. Initially, it looked like something he'd try and get through but he broke down a secodn time shortly afterwards.

[munkian]

Looks like we have potential injuries to Webb, North and Baker.

Not that Baker should be anywhere near the squad.

North didn't look good. Initially, it looked like something he'd try and get through but he broke down a secodn time shortly afterwards.

Its a pity as he seemed to be getting back up to speed again - hopefully its not too serious.

If Webb is out then I'm guessing Davies starts

[mikey_dragon]

Davies to start, May as well start Patch too. Looks like this team will be mostly Scarlets then. I just hope the other Davies’ (Aled and Sam) aren’t considered back up.

[Gwlad]

Webb will stay in the squad IMO. They will figure it out.

[Cardiff Dave]

Wondering if the Reejuns will be getting more cash. To help hang on to promising youngsters for example.

[munkian]

New Tim Cymru kit

https://store.wru.co.uk/kits-c83/kits-c139

[RiscaGame]

I actually really like that. Simple, but effective.

[Cardiff Dave]

New Tim Cymru kit

https://store.wru.co.uk/kits-c83/kits-c139

Is it like this?....

[munkian]

Pretty much

[Seagultaf]

I honestly think Henson may have done enough to get a call. He is still superb at reading. a game and had crucial assists in 2 tries. Scott Williams has not made 12 his own and Jamie os done, Henson is still fit and offers so much creativity on the ball that I can see Gets thinking that a 12 who can play 10 would be a distinct advantage as it was for the Lions.

Not sure if you watched the Cardiff v Dragons Derby game, Henson was out on his feet early in the second half, he looked absolutely knackered! Started making lots of mistakes and looked to be blamimg his problems on his team mates.....not good. So IMO nowhere near fit enough for test rugby and still has a suspect temperament.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Plus he continually failed to find touch, which meant the Blues kept running it back at us when we were under the pump. (Yes, we were playing into the wind second half, but he should know to sacrifice distance to make sure the ball goes out.)

[Cardiff Dave]

Pretty much

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