Wales thread continued - 2017/18 season

[mikey_dragon]

First topic message reminder :

2017/2018 season results (full fixture list posted below).

Wales 21 - 29 Australia
Wales 13 - 6 Georgia
Wales 18 - 33 New Zealand
Wales 24 - 22 South Africa

Wales 2018 6N Squad:
Forwards: Rob Evans (Scarlets), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Elliot Dee (Dragons), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Seb Davies (Cardiff Blues), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, capt), James Davies (Scarlets), Taulupe Faletau (Bath), Ellis Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys).

Backs: Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Bath), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Owen Watkin (Ospreys), Owen Williams (Gloucester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Josh Adams (Worcester Warriors), Hallam Amos (Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Steff Evans (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets), George North (Northampton Saints), Liam Williams (Saracens).

Faletau, Biggar expected to be available later on in the tournament. Amos, L Williams perhaps a little sooner.

Call-ups to cover injuries, etc.
Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I thought we'd start with the Autumn series. Gatland the Great is set to return and shake things up after another disappointing season underneath the Howler and his pal McBryde. The fixtures for this series are as follows:

November 2017
Sat 11th Nov 17 17:15
Wales   v   Australia  
Sat 18th Nov 17 14:30
Wales   v   Georgia
Sat 25th Nov 17 17:15
Wales   v   New Zealand
December 2017
Sat 2nd Dec 17 14:30
Wales   v   South Africa

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well there's no time like now so why not. Last year was a bit disappointing, topped off with an unsuccessful tour to NZ (as expected). Whilst I'm hoping for better this season my expectations are low as we have Howler and some other amateurs in charge who got the job because they were mates with Gatland and others in the WRU.

AI's
Wales V Australia 05/11/2016
8 - 32
Wales V Argentina 12/11/2016
24 - 20
Wales V Japan 19/11/2016
33 - 30
Wales V South Africa 26/11/2016
27 - 13

6 Nations
Italy V Wales 05/02/2017
7 - 33
Wales V England 11/02/2017
16 - 21
Scotland V Wales 25/02/2017
29 - 13
Wales V Ireland 10/03/2017
22 - 9
France V Wales 18/03/2017
20 -18

Very tough AI series but a kind start in the 6N. So far this season Blues and Ospreys look good, but how many of their players will be starters for Wales? Cuthbert is starting to look like his old self and if this continues he could come back into the team. Tomos Williams looks like a good player and if he also continues in this vein then might he take advantage of Gareth Davies' supposed rustiness? It's still early days but going by what I've seen and the reports I've read I would like to see a new centre partnership and also perhaps see our old back 3 of North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny reinstated - although a lot could happen between now and November. With Faletau out I think we can all guess who the wildcards will be, but who does that leave to play at No.8 - possibly Warburton with Ellis Jenkins at 7? What changes (if any) would you like to see? Keep it sensible please.

WALES 2016 UNDER ARMOUR SERIES SQUAD
Prop Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues) (12 Caps) Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs) (14 Caps) Rhys Gill (Cardiff Blues) (6 Caps) Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues) (126 Caps) Samson Lee (Scarlets) (28 Caps) Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (3 Caps)
Hooker Scott Baldwin (Ospreys) (24 Caps) Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues) (3 Caps) Ken Owens (Scarlets) (42 Caps)
Second Row Jake Ball (Scarlets) (20 Caps) Luke Charteris (Bath Rugby) (68 Caps) Bradley Davies (Ospreys) (56 Caps) Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) (102 Caps) Rory Thornton (Ospreys) (UNCAPPED)
Back Row Dan Baker (Ospreys) (3 Caps) Taulupe Faletau* (Bath Rugby) (61 Caps) James King (Ospreys) (8 Caps) Dan Lydiate (Ospreys) (57 Caps) Ross Moriarty (Gloucester) (9 Caps) Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (43 Caps) Sam Warburton (CAPT) (Cardiff Blues) (67 Caps)
Scrum Half Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (17 Caps) Rhys Webb (Ospreys) (22 Caps) Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues) (27 Caps)
Fly Half Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues) (8 Caps) Dan Biggar (Ospreys) (48 Caps) Sam Davies (Ospreys) (UNCAPPED)
Centre Jonathan Davies (Scarlets) (56 Caps) Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons) (3 Caps) Jamie Roberts* (Harlequins) (83 Caps) Scott Williams (Scarlets) (38 Caps)
Wing/Full Back Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons) (10 Caps) Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues) (42 Caps) Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon) (62 Caps) George North* (Northampton Saints) (62 Caps) Liam Williams (Scarlets) (35 Caps) * Denotes Senior Player Selection Policy wildcard selection.
Ospreys wing Keelan Giles, Cardiff Blues full-back Rhun Williams and Dragons pair Leon Brown and Harrison Keddie will train with the Wales squad.  

June summer tour
Tonga 6 - 24 Wales
Samoa 17 - 19 Wales

[propdavid_london]

So who is the likely starting no.8?  Does Moriarty cover? Whos the specialist?

It obviously should be Dan Baker who starts at no. 8, because, well that is his specialist position. I cannot fathom this obsession with playing players out of position when we already have players who play every week. Why would we need Moriarty to cover no.8 when we have Dan Baker ?

If they aren't playing well enough then you don't play them - it's really that simple. Howler turning around and saying "We've run out of 8's so I've thrown in Baker despite form" would be even more odd than his selection of Cuthbert and Ken Owens. Baker has actually played better in recent weeks but I'm not sure if it's enough to warrant a starting berth at No.8 for Wales.

Ross Moriarty (Gloucester)

[munkian]

Not sure why you have an issue with Owens, he's not exactly TRT

[mikey_dragon]

Not sure why you have an issue with Owens, he's not exactly TRT

WOW what a ringing endorsement, he's better than the worst hooker in Britain and Ireland . I have an issue with off form players being selected, Owens wouldn't be the only one.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

'Wales have called in Cardiff Blues pair Cory Allen and Tomos Williams as injury replacements for the games against the Pumas, Japan and South Africa.

'Uncapped scrum-half Williams is included following Rhys Webb's injury against the Wallabies on Saturday.

'Allen, who has won four caps, replaces Newport Gwent Dragons centre Tyler Morgan, who was released because of a hamstring injury.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37896733


First of all, thanks for injuring a player who didn't even play a game, but secondly, I'd have gone with Jonny Evans myself.

[ScarletSpiderman]

'Wales have called in Cardiff Blues pair Cory Allen and Tomos Williams as injury replacements for the games against the Pumas, Japan and South Africa.

'Uncapped scrum-half Williams is included following Rhys Webb's injury against the Wallabies on Saturday.

'Allen, who has won four caps, replaces Newport Gwent Dragons centre Tyler Morgan, who was released because of a hamstring injury.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37896733


First of all, thanks for injuring a player who didn't even play a game, but secondly, I'd have gone with Jonny Evans myself.

I'm surprised they didn't go for Haberfeild, due to familiarity with Sam and Biggar, or Aled Davies due to being in the squad before.

[BamBam]

Is Webb's injury serious ? Not sure if they were saying its the same ankle he did previously

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Aled Davies has looked quite poor this season, in my book anyway. Isn't that partly why the Scarlets have promoted Evans?

[mikey_dragon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37900040

Edwards sort of admitting some responsibility. Unsurprisingly no sign of Howley, who thinks everything is okay because Wales "usually get better." I hate him .

[mikey_dragon]

Aled Davies has looked quite poor this season, in my book anyway. Isn't that partly why the Scarlets have promoted Evans?

I don't think any second choice No.9 should be in the Wales squad, unless they've had a lot of game time. BTW I certainly wouldn't have called up Lloyd Williams on form. Aled Davies seems to now be confirming to everyone what I said years ago - he is NOT an international scrum-half, and barely good enough for Pro12 rugby. Jonny Evans is a good player though so it's no surprise to see him getting better now he's getting more opportunities - I still think it was best for his development that he stayed with us though. Habberfield has always been a good No.9 but again I'm not sure if he's had enough game time yet to be considered.

[mikey_dragon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37909616

Giles back in the Wales squad. It truly is terrible, terrible news because Amos is out through injury and Cuthbert is still available.

[wayne]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37909616

Giles back in the Wales squad. It truly is terrible, terrible news because Amos is out through injury and Cuthbert is still available.

Mikey surely the back 3 will be Halfpenny, Sanjay and North, admittedly the latter had a poor game, but even Howley wont keep Cuthbert in, surely?

[Seagultaf]

'Wales have called in Cardiff Blues pair Cory Allen and Tomos Williams as injury replacements for the games against the Pumas, Japan and South Africa.

'Uncapped scrum-half Williams is included following Rhys Webb's injury against the Wallabies on Saturday.

'Allen, who has won four caps, replaces Newport Gwent Dragons centre Tyler Morgan, who was released because of a hamstring injury.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37896733


First of all, thanks for injuring a player who didn't even play a game, but secondly, I'd have gone with Jonny Evans myself.

I'm surprised they didn't go for Haberfeild, due to familiarity with Sam and Biggar, or Aled Davies due to being in the squad before.

I have been really impressed with Tomos Williams, in fact I would be happy to see him on the bench against Argentina ahead of Lloyd. Ex Dragon, Jonny Evans must have been in the frame, he has been outstanding for the Scarlets (why did the Dragons ever let him go?) Cory has struggled lately and with Cardiff's two overseas centres he is likely to struggle now for gametime.

I see also that Keenan Giles has been also called up, a bit early in his career in my view as he looked all at sea against Munster on Friday night.

[Guest]

My preferred back 3 would have been Sanjay 15, North and 1/2p on wings, with Amos a very able bench option should one of the others get injured or be rubbish. Such a shame.

Thing is, what have we got to lose anyway? It's not like we'll make a raft of changes for Arg like when we play the 'weaker' AI game (I'm dreading the Japan game btw). I'd be tempted to blood a new winger now over Cuthbert. F*** it. Give Giles a go. He'll have bags of experience around him.

[Guest]

'Wales have called in Cardiff Blues pair Cory Allen and Tomos Williams as injury replacements for the games against the Pumas, Japan and South Africa.

'Uncapped scrum-half Williams is included following Rhys Webb's injury against the Wallabies on Saturday.

'Allen, who has won four caps, replaces Newport Gwent Dragons centre Tyler Morgan, who was released because of a hamstring injury.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37896733


First of all, thanks for injuring a player who didn't even play a game, but secondly, I'd have gone with Jonny Evans myself.

I'm surprised they didn't go for Haberfeild, due to familiarity with Sam and Biggar, or Aled Davies due to being in the squad before.

I have been really impressed with Tomos Williams, in fact I would be happy to see him on the bench against Argentina ahead of Lloyd. Ex Dragon, Jonny Evans must have been in the frame, he has been outstanding for the Scarlets (why did the Dragons ever let him go?) Cory has struggled lately and with Cardiff's two overseas centres he is likely to struggle now for gametime.

I see also that Keenan Giles has been also called up, a bit early in his career in my view as he looked all at sea against Munster on Friday night.

He was 'let go' in the same way as Faleatau, Gough, Parry, Brew (2 or 3 times with him), etc., etc. Their heads are turned by good offers, we make a good offer to keep them, but it's not enough and they want to try Premiership/French/Heineken Cup rugby. It's virtually impossible to keep them.

[mikey_dragon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37909616

Giles back in the Wales squad. It truly is terrible, terrible news because Amos is out through injury and Cuthbert is still available.

Mikey surely the back 3 will be Halfpenny, Sanjay and North, admittedly the latter had a poor game, but even Howley wont keep Cuthbert in, surely?

Don't bet on it pal.

[Seagultaf]

'Wales have called in Cardiff Blues pair Cory Allen and Tomos Williams as injury replacements for the games against the Pumas, Japan and South Africa.

'Uncapped scrum-half Williams is included following Rhys Webb's injury against the Wallabies on Saturday.

'Allen, who has won four caps, replaces Newport Gwent Dragons centre Tyler Morgan, who was released because of a hamstring injury.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37896733


First of all, thanks for injuring a player who didn't even play a game, but secondly, I'd have gone with Jonny Evans myself.

I'm surprised they didn't go for Haberfeild, due to familiarity with Sam and Biggar, or Aled Davies due to being in the squad before.

I have been really impressed with Tomos Williams, in fact I would be happy to see him on the bench against Argentina ahead of Lloyd. Ex Dragon, Jonny Evans must have been in the frame, he has been outstanding for the Scarlets (why did the Dragons ever let him go?) Cory has struggled lately and with Cardiff's two overseas centres he is likely to struggle now for gametime.

I see also that Keenan Giles has been also called up, a bit early in his career in my view as he looked all at sea against Munster on Friday night.

He was 'let go' in the same way as Faleatau, Gough, Parry, Brew (2 or 3 times with him), etc., etc.  Their heads are turned by good offers, we make a good offer to keep them, but it's not enough and they want to try Premiership/French/Heineken Cup rugby.  It's virtually impossible to keep them.

Surely Griff, the Dragons would be prepared to pay him what Bath or Scarlets are prepared to stump up for a third choice 9? Wasn't he replaced by the Saffa Pretorius, surely keeping Evans would have been better business?

[Guest]

'Wales have called in Cardiff Blues pair Cory Allen and Tomos Williams as injury replacements for the games against the Pumas, Japan and South Africa.

'Uncapped scrum-half Williams is included following Rhys Webb's injury against the Wallabies on Saturday.

'Allen, who has won four caps, replaces Newport Gwent Dragons centre Tyler Morgan, who was released because of a hamstring injury.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37896733


First of all, thanks for injuring a player who didn't even play a game, but secondly, I'd have gone with Jonny Evans myself.

I'm surprised they didn't go for Haberfeild, due to familiarity with Sam and Biggar, or Aled Davies due to being in the squad before.

I have been really impressed with Tomos Williams, in fact I would be happy to see him on the bench against Argentina ahead of Lloyd. Ex Dragon, Jonny Evans must have been in the frame, he has been outstanding for the Scarlets (why did the Dragons ever let him go?) Cory has struggled lately and with Cardiff's two overseas centres he is likely to struggle now for gametime.

I see also that Keenan Giles has been also called up, a bit early in his career in my view as he looked all at sea against Munster on Friday night.

He was 'let go' in the same way as Faleatau, Gough, Parry, Brew (2 or 3 times with him), etc., etc.  Their heads are turned by good offers, we make a good offer to keep them, but it's not enough and they want to try Premiership/French/Heineken Cup rugby.  It's virtually impossible to keep them.

Surely Griff, the Dragons would be prepared to pay him what Bath or Scarlets are prepared to stump up for a third choice 9? Wasn't he replaced by the Saffa Pretorius, surely keeping Evans would have been better business?

No I believe they were both there at the same time. It was probably more to do with Lyn Jones Picking his son ahead of him.

And I believe we did make him a good offer. You seem to be suggesting that if we offered him the same as Bath offered him then he would have stayed? What makes you think that? Plus, he had his former coach at Bath, the one who helped him break onto the scene at the Dragons (Darren Edwards), enticing him to come to Bath with promises of first team rugby (which didn't happen in the end). I would have kept him, but what would you do - Bath or Dragons? Hmmm.

What about players like Jamie Roberts, Gethin Jenkins, JD2, 1/2p - where is the criticism for those sides not holding on to their players? Surely if they'd just paid what Toulon, Racing or Clermont had offered then they would have kept them in Wales too? Or is it different rules being applied now for the Dragons?! Or could it be that the players want to go and experience another league and get out of the sh*ite that is Welsh rugby? Similar decision though - Clermont or Scarlet's? Racing or Blues? Toulon or Blues. Hmmmmmm. I know which I'd pick. So the same money might not be enough.

[Seagultaf]

'Wales have called in Cardiff Blues pair Cory Allen and Tomos Williams as injury replacements for the games against the Pumas, Japan and South Africa.

'Uncapped scrum-half Williams is included following Rhys Webb's injury against the Wallabies on Saturday.

'Allen, who has won four caps, replaces Newport Gwent Dragons centre Tyler Morgan, who was released because of a hamstring injury.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37896733


First of all, thanks for injuring a player who didn't even play a game, but secondly, I'd have gone with Jonny Evans myself.

I'm surprised they didn't go for Haberfeild, due to familiarity with Sam and Biggar, or Aled Davies due to being in the squad before.

I have been really impressed with Tomos Williams, in fact I would be happy to see him on the bench against Argentina ahead of Lloyd. Ex Dragon, Jonny Evans must have been in the frame, he has been outstanding for the Scarlets (why did the Dragons ever let him go?) Cory has struggled lately and with Cardiff's two overseas centres he is likely to struggle now for gametime.

I see also that Keenan Giles has been also called up, a bit early in his career in my view as he looked all at sea against Munster on Friday night.

He was 'let go' in the same way as Faleatau, Gough, Parry, Brew (2 or 3 times with him), etc., etc.  Their heads are turned by good offers, we make a good offer to keep them, but it's not enough and they want to try Premiership/French/Heineken Cup rugby.  It's virtually impossible to keep them.

Surely Griff, the Dragons would be prepared to pay him what Bath or Scarlets are prepared to stump up for a third choice 9? Wasn't he replaced by the Saffa Pretorius, surely keeping Evans would have been better business?

No I believe they were both there at the same time.  It was probably more to do with Lyn Jones Picking his son ahead of him.

And I believe we did make him a good offer.  You seem to be suggesting that if we offered him the same as Bath offered him then he would have stayed?  What makes you think that?  Plus, he had his former coach at Bath, the one who helped him break onto the scene at the Dragons (Darren Edwards), enticing him to come to Bath with promises of first team rugby (which didn't happen in the end).  I would have kept him, but what would you do - Bath or Dragons?  Hmmm.

What about players like Jamie Roberts, Gethin Jenkins, JD2, 1/2p - where is the criticism for those sides not holding on to their players?  Surely if they'd just paid what Toulon, Racing or Clermont had offered then they would have kept them in Wales too?  Or is it different rules being applied now for the Dragons?!  Or could it be that the players want to go and experience another league and get out of the sh*ite that is Welsh rugby?  Similar decision though - Clermont or Scarlet's?  Racing or Blues?  Toulon or Blues.  Hmmmmmm.  I know which I'd pick.  So the same money might not be enough.  

Jamie Roberts, Gethin Jenkins, JD2, and 1/2p all left Wales for big money and to clubs where they would be first choice. Didn't work out for Gethin and he come home pretty quickly.
Evans case is very different because he appeared to leave Dragons to be third choice at Bath and then left Bath to be third choice at Scarlets. Surely Dragons could have come up with a deal to keep him as first choice scrum half?

[bedfordwelsh]

'Wales have called in Cardiff Blues pair Cory Allen and Tomos Williams as injury replacements for the games against the Pumas, Japan and South Africa.

'Uncapped scrum-half Williams is included following Rhys Webb's injury against the Wallabies on Saturday.

'Allen, who has won four caps, replaces Newport Gwent Dragons centre Tyler Morgan, who was released because of a hamstring injury.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37896733


First of all, thanks for injuring a player who didn't even play a game, but secondly, I'd have gone with Jonny Evans myself.

I'm surprised they didn't go for Haberfeild, due to familiarity with Sam and Biggar, or Aled Davies due to being in the squad before.

I have been really impressed with Tomos Williams, in fact I would be happy to see him on the bench against Argentina ahead of Lloyd. Ex Dragon, Jonny Evans must have been in the frame, he has been outstanding for the Scarlets (why did the Dragons ever let him go?) Cory has struggled lately and with Cardiff's two overseas centres he is likely to struggle now for gametime.

I see also that Keenan Giles has been also called up, a bit early in his career in my view as he looked all at sea against Munster on Friday night.

He was 'let go' in the same way as Faleatau, Gough, Parry, Brew (2 or 3 times with him), etc., etc.  Their heads are turned by good offers, we make a good offer to keep them, but it's not enough and they want to try Premiership/French/Heineken Cup rugby.  It's virtually impossible to keep them.

Surely Griff, the Dragons would be prepared to pay him what Bath or Scarlets are prepared to stump up for a third choice 9? Wasn't he replaced by the Saffa Pretorius, surely keeping Evans would have been better business?

No I believe they were both there at the same time.  It was probably more to do with Lyn Jones Picking his son ahead of him.

And I believe we did make him a good offer.  You seem to be suggesting that if we offered him the same as Bath offered him then he would have stayed?  What makes you think that?  Plus, he had his former coach at Bath, the one who helped him break onto the scene at the Dragons (Darren Edwards), enticing him to come to Bath with promises of first team rugby (which didn't happen in the end).  I would have kept him, but what would you do - Bath or Dragons?  Hmmm.

What about players like Jamie Roberts, Gethin Jenkins, JD2, 1/2p - where is the criticism for those sides not holding on to their players?  Surely if they'd just paid what Toulon, Racing or Clermont had offered then they would have kept them in Wales too?  Or is it different rules being applied now for the Dragons?!  Or could it be that the players want to go and experience another league and get out of the sh*ite that is Welsh rugby?  Similar decision though - Clermont or Scarlet's?  Racing or Blues?  Toulon or Blues.  Hmmmmmm.  I know which I'd pick.  So the same money might not be enough.  

I very much doubt we couldn't even dream of matching any offer Bath made plus like it or not Bath will always give a player the better chance of winning something.

[Guest]

Exactly Bedford, so why would he stay?  It's a simple fact that money isn't everything for these players.  Sometimes they want to leave to play in better leagues and tournaments.  The Dragons couldn't offer that, regardless of money.

[Guest]

Jamie Roberts, Gethin Jenkins, JD2, and 1/2p all left Wales for big money and to clubs where they would be first choice. Didn't work out for Gethin and he come home pretty quickly.
Evans case is very different because he appeared to leave Dragons to be third choice at Bath and then left Bath to be third choice at Scarlets. Surely Dragons could have come up with a deal to keep him as first choice scrum half?

There is no way that Bath said "come here and be 3rd choice".  They would have said: "Come here as there's a good chance of getting first team rugby and forcing your way into the 1st choice spot".  That's what would have turned his head.  He was already getting regular 1st team rugby with the Dragons.  In fact, with Lyn's tombola selections there was no first choice.  He was rotated in and out the same as other scrumhalves.  But as I said, the lure of HC rugby and playing in a 'better' league will often trump a matched salary.  

But the point still stands about the others I mention.  What a lack of ambition by the Blues, Scarlets, Ospreys, etc. who let any player go.  Their number one assets, and they couldn't be arsed to match what Toulon, Clermont or Bath can offer.  Or..... is it that sometimes you simply can't keep a player once he decides to go???  I'm playing devils advocate to a certain extent.  But it seems that it is always the Dragons that come in for the sharpest criticism for 'letting players go'.  We had it in bucket loads with Faletau, with Jonny Evans, Tovey, with Brew when he went to France, we were rubbished for not going in for Henson when he was available (which we did, but he turned us down).  But the others do it too.  And with even better/higher profile players!

The other issue here is one of wage inflation.  Let's say we threw loads of money at Evans to outbid Bath.  We then have a player being paid more than he's worth, and less money available for the rest of the squad.  And then the other players will threaten to leave when their contracts are up unless they're paid more.  And all of a sudden you have a much inflated wage bill for players not worth the money; or you end up with players leaving altogether and you're scrabbling around for even poorer players.  It's a fine balance.  But in the case of the Dragons, according to the news we made him the best off we could, he chose to turn it down for a better opportunity at Bath, and that inevitably went t*ts up and he came back to a region that could offer him HC rugby (which we couldn't).  That's pro sport.

[wayne]

Jamie Roberts, Gethin Jenkins, JD2, and 1/2p all left Wales for big money and to clubs where they would be first choice. Didn't work out for Gethin and he come home pretty quickly.
Evans case is very different because he appeared to leave Dragons to be third choice at Bath and then left Bath to be third choice at Scarlets. Surely Dragons could have come up with a deal to keep him as first choice scrum half?

There is no way that Bath said "come here and be 3rd choice".  They would have said: "Come here as there's a good chance of getting first team rugby and forcing your way into the 1st choice spot".  That's what would have turned his head.  He was already getting regular 1st team rugby with the Dragons.  In fact, with Lyn's tombola selections there was no first choice.  He was rotated in and out the same as other scrumhalves.  But as I said, the lure of HC rugby and playing in a 'better' league will often trump a matched salary.  

But the point still stands about the others I mention.  What a lack of ambition by the Blues, Scarlets, Ospreys, etc. who let any player go.  Their number one assets, and they couldn't be arsed to match what Toulon, Clermont or Bath can offer.  Or..... is it that sometimes you simply can't keep a player once he decides to go???  I'm playing devils advocate to a certain extent.  But it seems that it is always the Dragons that come in for the sharpest criticism for 'letting players go'.  We had it in bucket loads with Faletau, with Jonny Evans, Tovey, with Brew when he went to France, we were rubbished for not going in for Henson when he was available (which we did, but he turned us down).  But the others do it too.  And with even better/higher profile players!

The other issue here is one of wage inflation.  Let's say we threw loads of money at Evans to outbid Bath.  We then have a player being paid more than he's worth, and less money available for the rest of the squad.  And then the other players will threaten to leave when their contracts are up unless they're paid more.  And all of a sudden you have a much inflated wage bill for players not worth the money; or you end up with players leaving altogether and you're scrabbling around for even poorer players.  It's a fine balance.  But in the case of the Dragons, according to the news we made him the best off we could, he chose to turn it down for a better opportunity at Bath, and that inevitably went t*ts up and he came back to a region that could offer him HC rugby *which we couldn't).  That's pro sport.

Griff, the same sort of thing happened with us over Hibbard and Paul James, because of the belt tightening exercise a few years ago, the decision to let them go was financially pushed, the only sad part for it on my point was the fact we kept the inept scrummager Bevington to release James, I would have been more pleased for it to have been the other way round, but then teams like Bath at that time KNEW Assey was miles better than Bev. The first chance we had to get him back we did, and I doubt we would have been able to match Baths offer at that time, but it was our pull in the loyalty department that enabled us to get him back.

[Guest]

Jamie Roberts, Gethin Jenkins, JD2, and 1/2p all left Wales for big money and to clubs where they would be first choice. Didn't work out for Gethin and he come home pretty quickly.
Evans case is very different because he appeared to leave Dragons to be third choice at Bath and then left Bath to be third choice at Scarlets. Surely Dragons could have come up with a deal to keep him as first choice scrum half?

There is no way that Bath said "come here and be 3rd choice".  They would have said: "Come here as there's a good chance of getting first team rugby and forcing your way into the 1st choice spot".  That's what would have turned his head.  He was already getting regular 1st team rugby with the Dragons.  In fact, with Lyn's tombola selections there was no first choice.  He was rotated in and out the same as other scrumhalves.  But as I said, the lure of HC rugby and playing in a 'better' league will often trump a matched salary.  

But the point still stands about the others I mention.  What a lack of ambition by the Blues, Scarlets, Ospreys, etc. who let any player go.  Their number one assets, and they couldn't be arsed to match what Toulon, Clermont or Bath can offer.  Or..... is it that sometimes you simply can't keep a player once he decides to go???  I'm playing devils advocate to a certain extent.  But it seems that it is always the Dragons that come in for the sharpest criticism for 'letting players go'.  We had it in bucket loads with Faletau, with Jonny Evans, Tovey, with Brew when he went to France, we were rubbished for not going in for Henson when he was available (which we did, but he turned us down).  But the others do it too.  And with even better/higher profile players!

The other issue here is one of wage inflation.  Let's say we threw loads of money at Evans to outbid Bath.  We then have a player being paid more than he's worth, and less money available for the rest of the squad.  And then the other players will threaten to leave when their contracts are up unless they're paid more.  And all of a sudden you have a much inflated wage bill for players not worth the money; or you end up with players leaving altogether and you're scrabbling around for even poorer players.  It's a fine balance.  But in the case of the Dragons, according to the news we made him the best off we could, he chose to turn it down for a better opportunity at Bath, and that inevitably went t*ts up and he came back to a region that could offer him HC rugby *which we couldn't).  That's pro sport.

Griff, the same sort of thing happened with us over Hibbard and Paul James, because of the belt tightening exercise a few years ago, the decision to let them go was financially pushed, the only sad part for it on my point was the fact we kept the inept scrummager Bevington to release James, I would have been more pleased for it to have been the other way round, but then teams like Bath at that time KNEW Assey was miles better than Bev. The first chance we had to get him back we did, and I doubt we would have been able to match Baths offer at that time, but it was our pull in the loyalty department that enabled us to get him back.  

Plus the fact that the Ospreys have a half decent chance of winning some silverware, which is not the case for the Dragons which is why we struggle to entice them back directly to us (e.g. Jonnny Evans, Lydiate, Charteris, Faletau I'm sure in future, etc.).  If Paul James had left the Dragons for Bath then I'd imagine he would have picked one of the 'better' regions upon his return.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

You tell 'em, Griff.

[Guest]

Whoops, I was perhaps a bit ranty there!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It's not the first time I've heard people say we 'let' Jonny Evans go. When you don't have much to offer, and a player doesn't want to stay anyway, what can you do?

[munkian]

Aye, you cant just throw money at something, mainly because we don't have any.

[mikey_dragon]

Almost time for redemp... I mean selection.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Some pretty awful stats here:


Wales have lost their last five Tests in succession. This is their worst run since they lost eight straight games from June 2012 to February 2013.

They have conceded 180 points across those five matches at an average of 36 points per game.

They have only won five of their 12 fixtures under current interim coach Rob Howley.

Defeat to Australia last weekend was their heaviest home loss since 2006.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37935687

[Guest]

Some pretty awful stats here:


Wales have lost their last five Tests in succession. This is their worst run since they lost eight straight games from June 2012 to February 2013.

They have conceded 180 points across those five matches at an average of 36 points per game.

They have only won five of their 12 fixtures under current interim coach Rob Howley.

Defeat to Australia last weekend was their heaviest home loss since 2006.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37935687

Don't forget the annual redemption game LP, coming to a screen new you soon! One game to redeem them all. One game to paper over the cracks. You know it's coming. And all will be well in the world..... Until the next humping

Another stat I read the other day: we haven't won the first game of the Autumn series since we beat Romania many moons ago in an AI game. Some time in the 90s or early 2000s I think. Ridiculous!

[RiscaGame]

I can't see redemption today. Might sneak a win v Japan, but that's it. M

[Guest]

Some pretty awful stats here:


Wales have lost their last five Tests in succession. This is their worst run since they lost eight straight games from June 2012 to February 2013.

They have conceded 180 points across those five matches at an average of 36 points per game.

They have only won five of their 12 fixtures under current interim coach Rob Howley.

Defeat to Australia last weekend was their heaviest home loss since 2006.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37935687

Don't forget the annual redemption game LP, coming to a screen new you soon! One game to redeem them all. One game to paper over the cracks. You know it's coming. And all will be well in the world..... Until the next humping

Another stat I read the other day: we haven't won the first game of the Autumn series since we beat Romania many moons ago in an AI game. Some time in the 90s or early 2000s I think. Ridiculous!

I just looked it up on wiki. 2002 was the last time we won our 1st game of the Autumn series (v Romania). 2002! 14 years without a first up win. What a bunch of jokers

[Luckless Pedestrian]

So it's official. As well as allowing Gatland to have a year's paid leave to coach the Lions, we're letting Howley be part of the Lions team and giving Robin McBryde the job of coaching Wales on the summer tour of the Pacific islands (nice easy fixtures) after the roaring success of the 2013 tour of Japan.

It angers me that our union cares less for our national team than other unions do for theirs.

[Cardiff Dave]

So it's official. As well as allowing Gatland to have a year's paid leave to coach the Lions, we're letting Howley be part of the Lions team and giving Robin McBryde the job of coaching Wales on the summer tour of the Pacific islands (nice easy fixtures) after the roaring success of the 2013 tour of Japan.

It angers me that our union cares less for our national team than other unions do for theirs.

That being a TFW coach is a part-time type job? A hobby even? Wonder what it pays by the hour.

[Guest]

So it's official. As well as allowing Gatland to have a year's paid leave to coach the Lions, we're letting Howley be part of the Lions team and giving Robin McBryde the job of coaching Wales on the summer tour of the Pacific islands (nice easy fixtures) after the roaring success of the 2013 tour of Japan.

It angers me that our union cares less for our national team than other unions do for theirs.

That being a TFW coach is a part-time type job? A hobby even? Wonder what it pays by the hour.

TFW??? Team Feckin' Wales?

[Cardiff Dave]

So it's official. As well as allowing Gatland to have a year's paid leave to coach the Lions, we're letting Howley be part of the Lions team and giving Robin McBryde the job of coaching Wales on the summer tour of the Pacific islands (nice easy fixtures) after the roaring success of the 2013 tour of Japan.

It angers me that our union cares less for our national team than other unions do for theirs.

That being a TFW coach is a part-time type job? A hobby even? Wonder what it pays by the hour.

TFW??? Team Feckin' Wales?

Aye.

[Cardiff Dave]

If Welsh rugby was a soap opera, would the Xmas day episode
beat Morecambe and Wise?

[Exiledinborders]

So it's official. As well as allowing Gatland to have a year's paid leave to coach the Lions, we're letting Howley be part of the Lions team and giving Robin McBryde the job of coaching Wales on the summer tour of the Pacific islands (nice easy fixtures) after the roaring success of the 2013 tour of Japan.

It angers me that our union cares less for our national team than other unions do for theirs.

That being a TFW coach is a part-time type job? A hobby even? Wonder what it pays by the hour.

TFW??? Team Feckin' Wales?

Aye.

It is all a plot. The plan is to get Wales well down the rankings again to create another pool of death and knock England out of the next RWC. Bastards!

[SecretFly]

So it's official. As well as allowing Gatland to have a year's paid leave to coach the Lions, we're letting Howley be part of the Lions team and giving Robin McBryde the job of coaching Wales on the summer tour of the Pacific islands (nice easy fixtures) after the roaring success of the 2013 tour of Japan.

It angers me that our union cares less for our national team than other unions do for theirs.

The curse of the Lions obsession.  The weird idea that it is more honourable to be involved in a combined side comprising four International Union Nations - going on tour against one lone Rugby Nation - than it is to put on the shirt of your own lone Nation and give it all your efforts, all your emotion and all your soul.  The All Blacks are the All Blacks partially because they worship the idea of one Nation united in rugby.

The Lions are a watered-down act - a good holiday, taken way way too seriously and in turn markets esteem for itself above that of the Nations involved.

Gatland has said he isn't quite finished selecting possible coaches.  So McBryde is sitting very close to his phone through the night.... drinking lots of coffee to keep himself awake

[BigTrevsbigmac]

With the new talk of Alex King becoming attack coach for Wales 2017 6Ns. I think the WRU are fast becoming a retirement home for my beloved Wasps.

[Gwlad]

So it's official. As well as allowing Gatland to have a year's paid leave to coach the Lions, we're letting Howley be part of the Lions team and giving Robin McBryde the job of coaching Wales on the summer tour of the Pacific islands (nice easy fixtures) after the roaring success of the 2013 tour of Japan.

It angers me that our union cares less for our national team than other unions do for theirs.

The curse of the Lions obsession.  The weird idea that it is more honourable to be involved in a combined side comprising four International Union Nations - going on tour against one lone Rugby Nation - than it is to put on the shirt of your own lone Nation and give it all your efforts, all your emotion and all your soul.  The All Blacks are the All Blacks partially because they worship the idea of one Nation united in rugby.

The Lions are a watered-down act - a good holiday, taken way way too seriously and in turn markets esteem for itself above that of the Nations involved.

Gatland has said he isn't quite finished selecting possible coaches.  So McBryde is sitting very close to his phone through the night.... drinking lots of coffee to keep himself awake

The Lions represent rugby like no other team. The players and coaches regard them as a legendary pinnacle. To be a Lion is to climb Everest.

Have you ever been on a tour?

[Welly]

Owen Williams has to be in with a chance surely?

How many 10/12's do Wales have?

[True Raven]

With the new talk of Alex King becoming attack coach for Wales 2017 6Ns. I think the WRU are fast becoming a retirement home for my beloved Wasps.

Can we have Dai Young then please?

[True Raven]

Owen Williams has to be in with a chance surely?

How many 10/12's do Wales have?

Only if theres an injury crisis.

I like Owen Williams but in terms of talent and form hes not ahead of other 10's and 12's currently in Wales.  I personally wouldnt swap Sam Davies or Scott Williams for him

[wayne]

According to reports the WRU are speaking with 3 Regions Coaches to be part of the coaching setup for the Summer Tour to the PI.
The 3 are named as Steve Tandy (Ospreys), Stephen Jones (Scarlets) and Danny Wilson (Blues), one of the problems for me is that 2 of those are Head Coaches, there is only one with a dedicated positional job (Jones) attack.

[Guest]

Owen Williams has to be in with a chance surely?

How many 10/12's do Wales have?

Slim to none. When he was at the Scarlets, his weaknesses as an outside half were clear, standing too deep etc. Ben Youngs dictates everything as far as I can tell for Leicester. He's a good kicker, no doubt, but he's not what Wales need.

If he was exceptional in the style he played, perhaps, because Rhys Webb- a similarly 'controlling' 9- should be starting for the next 3-4 years as long as he stays fit. As it is, Sam Davies is one of the best footballers to come out of Wales in the last five years, Rhys Patchell is gaining experience and consistency as a running 10, and then we've still got Biggar and Priestland (!?).

We're not blessed with 12s, but I'm not sure he's a Test quality player in that position either. He goes have a gait quite similar to Hook, if he had exceptional distribution and a solid defence, he could be a good 2nd 5/8 option which we haven't really had since Hook (in a hypothetical world where Gatland stopped picking Roberts/crashball 12s).

Ultimately, I think he has to come back to Wales to put himself back in the national frame, otherwise he's going to be relying on several injuries at once to get his cap. He's not good enough to make the management sit up and notice a player who would be holding tackle bags in training at best at the moment.

[wayne]

According to reports the WRU are speaking with 3 Regions Coaches to be part of the coaching setup for the Summer Tour to the PI.
The 3 are named as Steve Tandy (Ospreys), Stephen Jones (Scarlets) and Danny Wilson (Blues), one of the problems for me is that 2 of those are Head Coaches, there is only one with a dedicated positional job (Jones) attack.

Apparently Steve Tandy has turned down this offer, Matt Sherratt has joined the other 2 in going, extending his time with the National setup.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

With the new talk of Alex King becoming attack coach for Wales 2017 6Ns. I think the WRU are fast becoming a retirement home for my beloved Wasps.

Can we have Dai Young then please?

I think Dai will be more than happy to stay at Wasps for a while yet. He stayed through the real bad times & now has a real decent squad of players to pick from.
I'm surprised not many Welsh fans have mentioned his son though. He really is an outstanding 7. Deceptively quick, good rugby brain & would really make an impact if Wales 'really' wanted to go for a quicker tempo game.

Faletau, Young & Moriarty would work.

[True Raven]

With the new talk of Alex King becoming attack coach for Wales 2017 6Ns. I think the WRU are fast becoming a retirement home for my beloved Wasps.

Can we have Dai Young then please?

I think Dai will be more than happy to stay at Wasps for a while yet. He stayed through the real bad times & now has a real decent squad of players to pick from.
I'm surprised not many Welsh fans have mentioned his son though. He really is an outstanding 7. Deceptively quick, good rugby brain & would really make an impact if Wales 'really' wanted to go for a quicker tempo game.

Faletau, Young & Moriarty would work.

Same issue with Owen Williams above. There are better players currently playing in Wales who will be available for all Wales camps so unless he moves back home, he is unlikely to be selected

[munkian]

Wasn't OW rather fantastic in the Tigers win over Munner ?

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