Wales thread continued - 2017/18 season

[mikey_dragon]

First topic message reminder :

2017/2018 season results (full fixture list posted below).

Wales 21 - 29 Australia
Wales 13 - 6 Georgia
Wales 18 - 33 New Zealand
Wales 24 - 22 South Africa

Wales 2018 6N Squad:
Forwards: Rob Evans (Scarlets), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Elliot Dee (Dragons), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Seb Davies (Cardiff Blues), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, capt), James Davies (Scarlets), Taulupe Faletau (Bath), Ellis Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys).

Backs: Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Bath), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Owen Watkin (Ospreys), Owen Williams (Gloucester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Josh Adams (Worcester Warriors), Hallam Amos (Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Steff Evans (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets), George North (Northampton Saints), Liam Williams (Saracens).

Faletau, Biggar expected to be available later on in the tournament. Amos, L Williams perhaps a little sooner.

Call-ups to cover injuries, etc.
Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I thought we'd start with the Autumn series. Gatland the Great is set to return and shake things up after another disappointing season underneath the Howler and his pal McBryde. The fixtures for this series are as follows:

November 2017
Sat 11th Nov 17 17:15
Wales   v   Australia  
Sat 18th Nov 17 14:30
Wales   v   Georgia
Sat 25th Nov 17 17:15
Wales   v   New Zealand
December 2017
Sat 2nd Dec 17 14:30
Wales   v   South Africa

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well there's no time like now so why not. Last year was a bit disappointing, topped off with an unsuccessful tour to NZ (as expected). Whilst I'm hoping for better this season my expectations are low as we have Howler and some other amateurs in charge who got the job because they were mates with Gatland and others in the WRU.

AI's
Wales V Australia 05/11/2016
8 - 32
Wales V Argentina 12/11/2016
24 - 20
Wales V Japan 19/11/2016
33 - 30
Wales V South Africa 26/11/2016
27 - 13

6 Nations
Italy V Wales 05/02/2017
7 - 33
Wales V England 11/02/2017
16 - 21
Scotland V Wales 25/02/2017
29 - 13
Wales V Ireland 10/03/2017
22 - 9
France V Wales 18/03/2017
20 -18

Very tough AI series but a kind start in the 6N. So far this season Blues and Ospreys look good, but how many of their players will be starters for Wales? Cuthbert is starting to look like his old self and if this continues he could come back into the team. Tomos Williams looks like a good player and if he also continues in this vein then might he take advantage of Gareth Davies' supposed rustiness? It's still early days but going by what I've seen and the reports I've read I would like to see a new centre partnership and also perhaps see our old back 3 of North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny reinstated - although a lot could happen between now and November. With Faletau out I think we can all guess who the wildcards will be, but who does that leave to play at No.8 - possibly Warburton with Ellis Jenkins at 7? What changes (if any) would you like to see? Keep it sensible please.

WALES 2016 UNDER ARMOUR SERIES SQUAD
Prop Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues) (12 Caps) Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs) (14 Caps) Rhys Gill (Cardiff Blues) (6 Caps) Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues) (126 Caps) Samson Lee (Scarlets) (28 Caps) Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (3 Caps)
Hooker Scott Baldwin (Ospreys) (24 Caps) Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues) (3 Caps) Ken Owens (Scarlets) (42 Caps)
Second Row Jake Ball (Scarlets) (20 Caps) Luke Charteris (Bath Rugby) (68 Caps) Bradley Davies (Ospreys) (56 Caps) Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) (102 Caps) Rory Thornton (Ospreys) (UNCAPPED)
Back Row Dan Baker (Ospreys) (3 Caps) Taulupe Faletau* (Bath Rugby) (61 Caps) James King (Ospreys) (8 Caps) Dan Lydiate (Ospreys) (57 Caps) Ross Moriarty (Gloucester) (9 Caps) Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (43 Caps) Sam Warburton (CAPT) (Cardiff Blues) (67 Caps)
Scrum Half Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (17 Caps) Rhys Webb (Ospreys) (22 Caps) Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues) (27 Caps)
Fly Half Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues) (8 Caps) Dan Biggar (Ospreys) (48 Caps) Sam Davies (Ospreys) (UNCAPPED)
Centre Jonathan Davies (Scarlets) (56 Caps) Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons) (3 Caps) Jamie Roberts* (Harlequins) (83 Caps) Scott Williams (Scarlets) (38 Caps)
Wing/Full Back Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons) (10 Caps) Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues) (42 Caps) Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon) (62 Caps) George North* (Northampton Saints) (62 Caps) Liam Williams (Scarlets) (35 Caps) * Denotes Senior Player Selection Policy wildcard selection.
Ospreys wing Keelan Giles, Cardiff Blues full-back Rhun Williams and Dragons pair Leon Brown and Harrison Keddie will train with the Wales squad.  

June summer tour
Tonga 6 - 24 Wales
Samoa 17 - 19 Wales

[mikey_dragon]

I hope this post is sarcasm? Otherwise you sound like a massive bell!

'ard man this guy. Why would it be sarcasm? How about get off this thread if you're another who can't handle the truth?

[Guest]

I hope this post is sarcasm? Otherwise you sound like a massive bell!

'ard man this guy. Why would it be sarcasm? How about get off this thread if you're another who can't handle the truth?

You f***ing weirdo!

[mikey_dragon]

I wish you'd stop with the flipping and discuss more rugby, like the time mikey was right about Navidi.

WOL are running the Moriarty to Dragons rumour again for those interested. Also, WOL are reporting that Ospreys are keen on Scott Williams and Ellis Jenkins. Whilst I don't think they need a centre, Ellis Jenkins would be a good signing and Cardiff Blues could do with one less No7. Again, this is the WOL rag so take it with a pinch of salt.

Does anyone know when Faletau is out of contract with Bath?

[chris_501]

I wish you'd stop with the flipping and discuss more rugby, like the time mikey was right about Navidi.

WOL are running the Moriarty to Dragons rumour again for those interested. Also, WOL are reporting that Ospreys are keen on Scott Williams and Ellis Jenkins. Whilst I don't think they need a centre, Ellis Jenkins would be a good signing and Cardiff Blues could do with one less No7. Again, this is the WOL rag so take it with a pinch of salt.

Does anyone know when Faletau is out of contract with Bath?

Personally I can't see either heading to the Ospreys. They aren't the draw they once were.
I'm not sure the Blues want rid of a 7. Warburton's injury issues are all too apparent and Navidi is likely to be 6 or 8 in a 1st choice back row.

As for Williams, yes he is being rotated with Davies and Parkes but I think he'll get enough game time in what is clearly the strongest region at this current time.

[Guest]

In danger of sounding really one eyed here, but I thought the rip actually went out flat. Looked forward, but only because the players moved backwards towards the Wales try line relative to the ball as a result of the tackle. Probably just me being one eyed though.

This game's gone flatter than a witch's tit now.

[mikey_dragon]

Ref is awful. Wales are average. Priestland and Cuthbert are the only two players I know who can make the same errors in every game and still get picked. Lydiate has been good.

[Guest]

Sorry but Kristian Dacey is doing nothing to change my opinion that he is a bit poopie. Again, maybe being a bit one eyed again (this time as a Dragons fan) but I'd like to see Dee come on now as I think he adds more than KD.

We're trying to play an open game but it looks so rusty, probably because it's a scratch team. After 20 minutes of nothing working we look a little lost for ideas.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Cuthbert back on international form. And the boys seem more like individuals trying to prove their worth than a team. Shock horror exactly as it goes in the minnow AI game every year

[Guest]

How predictable (we and this game are). Pathetic.

[Guest]

If I see one of our players take the ball stood still, and then try to do a standing still side step to cut inside, once more I think I'll cry. They all think they're Phil Bennett but with the running skills of Adam Jones.

[Guest]

So what learning experience do these players get from this? All they're getting is humiliation and they'll get a flogging in the press and their confidence will go. Plus they've won a cap cheaply which should never be the case. Wales demonstrating their paper thin depth once more. And I don't think I'm being disrespectful to Georgia as I think generally they've been poor overall, scrums aside. We've just been mega gash, again.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Don’t care about the result. Gatland and whoever else is responsible need to hand in their notice and never be involved in Rugby again.

Losing would’ve been ok. But CHEATING bloodgate style is not acceptable. I’m fuming, a bloody kiwi ^*%# has made me ashamed to be welsh

[VinceWLB]

Wales cheated their way to "victory".

[Guest]

"Wales haven't beaten a tier 2 team by more than 10 points in the Autumn series for nearly a decade". And yet we persist with these experimental approaches. And now we go into next week against the All Blacks as a team and squad with dented confidence and on a low.

[mikey_dragon]

How did we cheat? Watching on a stream overseas so I missed it, and don’t fully understand the uncontested scrum rules.

[Guest]

I thought it was the Georgians who didn't have any props left?

[VinceWLB]

How did we cheat? Watching on a stream overseas so I missed it, and don’t fully understand the uncontested scrum rules.

Leon Brown magically became injured after Francis got yellow carded.

[mikey_dragon]

I thought it was the Georgians who didn't have any props left?

That’s what I thought I heard.

[mikey_dragon]

How did we cheat? Watching on a stream overseas so I missed it, and don’t fully understand the uncontested scrum rules.

Leon Brown magically became injured after Francis got yellow carded.

But when he was originally subsitituted was it a permanent replacement?

[ScarletSpiderman]

How did we cheat? Watching on a stream overseas so I missed it, and don’t fully understand the uncontested scrum rules.

Leon Brown magically became injured after Francis got yellow carded.

Two healthy props suddenly become injuries. It’s not acceptable. It’s really shameful. By doing that Gats has not only disgraced himself, he’s disgraced the players, and the nation.

Honestly, (and I’m sober before anyone asks) I’m done with Wales as a team until he’s gone.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Griff, Just checked the fails live updates.  Even they admit it was us.

[Guest]

If we did do that then I completely agree that it's disgraceful and we should get all the abuse we deserve.  Just a the time I thought it was Georgia who seemed to be deciding who to bring on and I thought they had prop injuries.

[Gwlad]

Wales started to cheat?! WTAF I expect that from NZ but not our boys. Goegia played a better smarter game and deserved it. Shame on the Welsh B team boys today.And please bfs, I keep asking can Cuffbert just get the frack lost.

[mikey_dragon]

I’m with Gatland on this one.

"Leon [Dragons prop Brown] had cramped up, his calves were no good. When we took him off it was tactical but we knew he was cramping.

"I can promise you there was nothing from our point of view to manipulate the laws. If Leon had been fit he would have gone back on."

Funnily enough when France did worse nobody around here batted an eyelid. It’ll be WWIII on here Monday if opposition fans suspect we cheated, again the same ones who were silent about France. Anyone turning their back on the international team can go, Wales doesn’t want or need you.

[tatterd]

Well it's already WWIII on the bbc HYS Mikey so I think you may well be right...

[RiscaGame]

Leon Brown seemed fine when he was stood up, looking like he was going to come on and was seen warming up just fine by people in the stadium. It is embarrassing they resorted to that. I was willing Georgia to score after that.

[George Carlin]

Was this the match thread for the Georgia game? 

I just picked up on all of the stuff that happened at the end. What do Wales fans think about that? 

That is not a loaded or rhetorical question. I wouldn't know what to think if Scotland did that.

[aucklandlaurie]

What impreessed me about that little incident at the end was the referee giving Georgia the opportunity to change their minds and either go for the posts or a lineout after Going for the Scrum and Wales deciding that they werent going to do anymore scrums with Georgian feeds.

 A lot of other International referees wouldnt have been able to deal with that.

[Guest]

Was this the match thread for the Georgia game? 

I just picked up on all of the stuff that happened at the end. What do Wales fans think about that? 

That is not a loaded or rhetorical question. I wouldn't know what to think if Scotland did that.

Shocking and embarrassing and inexcusable if true, but Gatland is adamant that the only player who could go back on was injured/cramping up so was not able to. So he's either correct or straight up lying through his teeth. Tough one to decifer. Probably the latter but who knows.

I seem to remember France doing the same in the Wales match in the 6N. The one that went on for 20mins in injury time. Well, it was similar. They pretended their tighthead was injured so they could bring on a better one that they'd already substituted in the hope they could win a penalty try and therefore the game. Only the Welsh seemed bothered by it on these boards, with a 'stop moaning' message from posters! So I guess it's not something people think is a big deal. Gamesmanship perhaps?

[ScarletSpiderman]

Just watching it on Scrum V. Not only was Brown (and Smith, a prop is a prop or has that changed?) on the touchline, he didn’t seem overly ‘injured’. Also Gatland looked, and sounded, like someone trying to lie/her away with it on the back foot.

Gwyn Jones recons we need to take them by their word. Jiffy reckons it’s not technically illegal. And they all seem to just have the attitude of ‘meh France did it so deal with it’.

[No 7&1/2]

Cheating not gamesmanship. If it's the case he wasn't cramping.

[Guest]

Just watching it on Scrum V.  Not only was Brown (and Smith, a prop is a prop or has that changed?) on the touchline, he didn’t seem overly ‘injured’.  Also Gatland looked, and sounded, like someone trying to lie/her away with it on the back foot.

Gwyn Jones recons we need to take them by their word.  Jiffy reckons it’s not technically illegal.  And they all seem to just have the attitude of ‘meh France did it so deal with it’.

Brown was the only tighthead. Had to be a recognised tighthead replacement so Smith would not be allowed.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Just watching it on Scrum V.  Not only was Brown (and Smith, a prop is a prop or has that changed?) on the touchline, he didn’t seem overly ‘injured’.  Also Gatland looked, and sounded, like someone trying to lie/her away with it on the back foot.

Gwyn Jones recons we need to take them by their word.  Jiffy reckons it’s not technically illegal.  And they all seem to just have the attitude of ‘meh France did it so deal with it’.

Brown was the only tighthead. Had to be a recognised tighthead replacement so Smith would not be allowed.

Cheers. Wasn’t overly sure about that one. So it would be best for teams to not say someone can play both sides (Paul Jane, Rhodri Jones kinda) as that would possibly hamper them.

[Guest]

In a cyclical way I guess so, SS. I thought the move to 23 man squads was meant to help this issue and reduce the chance of uncontested scrums. I would have thought that naming a 'both sider' would have been mandatory.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Was this the match thread for the Georgia game? 

I just picked up on all of the stuff that happened at the end. What do Wales fans think about that? 

That is not a loaded or rhetorical question. I wouldn't know what to think if Scotland did that.

Shocking and embarrassing and inexcusable if true, but Gatland is adamant that the only player who could go back on was injured/cramping up so was not able to. So he's either correct or straight up lying through his teeth. Tough one to decifer. Probably the latter but who knows.

I seem to remember France doing the same in the Wales match in the 6N. The one that went on for 20mins in injury time. Well, it was similar. They pretended their tighthead was injured so they could bring on a better one that they'd already substituted in the hope they could win a penalty try and therefore the game. Only the Welsh seemed bothered by it on these boards, with a 'stop moaning' message from posters! So I guess it's not something people think is a big deal. Gamesmanship perhaps?

FWIW I hated what France did, it was a shocking manipulation of the rules to get the stronger scrummager back on the pitch. I do however defend Barnes's handling of the situation since he couldn't overrule the French doctor. I think the fact that France didn't ultimately get the penalty try probably helped not blow things up too much, but it was IMO incredibly poor.

Similarly I don't like what Wales did. As others have said, there didn't seem much wrong with the prop when he was warming up seemingly ready to come back on. I'm also not sure if cramp does or should count as an injury: in tennis for instance you can't get an MTO for cramp.

Ultimately it feels like at best Wales were gaming the system, and the fact they felt they had to do so to beat Georgia is not exactly a great look.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

A lot has been made of the TV footage that shows Leon Brown standing up, apparently preparing to come on, then Team Wales's doctor (or physio, he's been on Lions tours and his name escapes me) speaking into his radio mic and looking up to the stands where the rest of the coaching team was sitting. Shortly afterwards, the news comes that Brown has cramp and can't come back on.

Some people have taken this as clear proof that Brown was quite fit and ready to return, but the physio / doctor received a message from the coaches telling him to tell the refereeing team that Brown had cramp and couldn't come back on, meaning uncontested scrums. But bear in mind that Brown is 21, was winning only his second cap and has had quite a rapid rise; isn't it possible that he did have cramp, but having been told he was coming back on, assumed he had no choice and was ready to do as he was told? Could the conversation we saw on screeen, but didn't hear, have been the doctor / physio radioing the coaches to tell them that Brown had cramp?

[No 7&1/2]

Wouldn't surprise me if wr looked at tweaking the laws to state if this happens the team then lose another player to replicate the rule around 2 front row injuries.

[mikey_dragon]

For me in spite of all this, Muppet of the Weekend Award goes to Gwyn Jones.

[reallybored]

Gatland is a disgrace.

Anyone trying to defend his actions or play a bit whataboutery needs to have a good look at themselves.

"Integrity in this game is pretty important and player welfare is equally important," he said. "What happened in the last 10 minutes shouldn’t happen again on an international rugby field. The process leading up to the change of the French tighthead coming off … we love our game too much. To have a decision like that ultimately determine the outcome of the game is hugely disappointing." - Rob Howley


And if memory serves, the French brought on a replacement prop and it was competitive scrums.

[munkian]

Because you were there and know all the facts, off you pop.

[reallybored]

Because you were there and know all the facts, off you pop.

So you think it was all above board?

Anyone listened to Flats & Shanks today? Flats said Wasps had a reputation for pulling the same sh!t when Gats was there.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Because you were there and know all the facts, off you pop.

So you think it was all above board?

It doesn't matter what any of us think. All we know is that Brown didn't go back on because it's claimed he had cramp. Unless you have some evidence that the rest of us haven't seen?

[mikey_dragon]

Because you were there and know all the facts, off you pop.

Another moaning Scot having a pop at superior Gatland is not uncommon. These guys never said anything about France-cheats either.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

For what it's worth, I think it looks dodgy as hell. But as I said, what we think is neither here nor there. It's whether World Rugby think it's dodgy that matters.

[SecretFly]

What's going on here? Still on about the 2011 World Cup six years after the event?
Get over yourselves. Move on. It's old news.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

England would have walked that tournament, if it wasn't for those pesky dwarfs.

[Guest]

What's going on here?  Still on about the 2011 World Cup six years after the event?  
Get over yourselves.  Move on.  It's old news.

??? Eh?! 

[SecretFly]

What's going on here?  Still on about the 2011 World Cup six years after the event?  
Get over yourselves.  Move on.  It's old news.

??? Eh?! 

I hear Gatland mentioned. I hear France mentioned. I hear the possibility of uncontested scrums mentioned and I automatically think yous are all still talking about 2011.

Forgive me........

[reallybored]

Because you were there and know all the facts, off you pop.

Another moaning Scot having a pop at superior Gatland is not uncommon. These guys never said anything about France-cheats either.

The French cheated and should have been sanctioned for it but at least they had the guts to put a guy on to scrummage and not wimp out of the contest.

I have a big problem with a Tier 1 nation cheating to prevent Tier 2 nations from having a fair crack.

[Guest]

What's going on here?  Still on about the 2011 World Cup six years after the event?  
Get over yourselves.  Move on.  It's old news.

??? Eh?! 

I hear Gatland mentioned.  I hear France mentioned.  I hear the possibility of uncontested scrums mentioned and I automatically think yous are all still talking about 2011.

Forgive me........  

Nah, we're talking about the last game of the 6 nations. 8 months ago, is all.

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