Fury vs Klitschko OFF

First topic message reminder :

Oh dear....

He should be stripped for sending away the drug testers not for any other reason

TopHat24/7 wrote:Have we seen any proven independent EVIDENCE of Fury's 'mental' claims....????????

Still seems to be being given a huuuuuuuge amount of slack for all his failings as soon as he dropped the M-bomb.

I've seen nothing confirming his supposed diagnosys.

The wording of the cancellation tends to suggest/imply that his reasons for pulling out are not physical (surely they'd have said he'd sustained an injury in training) and they have miraculously managed to remain sensitive and not divulge the full details as yet (I believe it's going to be this week). Maybe the truth is somewhere in between and his lack of motivation to train (as evidenced by his woeful physical appearance) is being spun, for want of a better word, as depression/mental issues. Whatever the reasons, Fury should be taken out of the equation and let other HW fight for the vacant belts.

I firmly believe that when Mike Tyson was active, every man and his dog knew he was madder than a box of boiled badgers but because he generated such huge amounts of cash, they had a vested interest in keeping him fighting. Tyson Fury generates nowhere the money or interest of Mike Tyson so there's no need to keep him in the public eye. Get him the help he needs (if that's the case) and move on!

Everything is conjecture at this point.

The only facts are that Fury has beaten the guy who dominated the heavyweight division for a decade and no one has been impressed with any of AJs opponents.

Everything is personal bias after that.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

EX7EY wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

EX7EY wrote:Still not sold on AJ myself. I've been saying it for months. He may be the real deal and I hope he is. But he's beaten nobody, literally nobody. And to think what he has beaten has earnt him a version of the heavweight championship of the world, absolute travesty. Dillian Whyte is considered his best win by most, let that sink in for a moment.

Yet you'll quite happily blow smoke up Parker's backside based on even less......

Please tell me where I have blown smoke up Parkers backside? I think you are confusing me with another poster my friend, and I don't think it's the first time you've done it either...

Correction, that was ebop, you were just the guy that was unable to provide a drop of sustainable analysis to support your contention that AJ will fall over the instand he fights someone with a pulse (and that, K aside, Fury's oppos were lightyears ahead of AJ's).

Can't remember whether that posting was before or after all the 'stellas down the local' you were regaling us about consuming.....

Jesus, I only vaguely remember writing the post you have just made reference to. Well done for trawling through my post history to find something to excuse your garbage post with. And excuse me for having an opinion and expressing it on this here public forum. I thought thats what it was for, silly me.

In my defence, it's not my fault that Joshua has been fed 17 tomato cans is it. What am I supposed to conclude? That based on knocking out bums he is the next Ali? Come on.

Mental health is a serious issue. Yes. But do you think in a similar situation US open would stop the competition indefinitely until Warwinka got the help he might need? There's surely a time limit for a man to hold the titles without actually defending them? The IBF are probably laughing all the way to the Sanction bank at the moment.

kingraf wrote:Of course it doesn't matter. That's a by the by issue. It's a bit like if Suzie in accounting hasn't been to work for two weeks but she's funny and great to be around vs her being a miserable git. Sure she gets the sack in both scenarios, but you're a little bit sadder about seeing cheerful Suzie leave

not a great example raf, we both know Suzie keeps her job if she has a good set of norks on her. Tyson's moobs aren't saving him.

Back on topic, I'm a Fury fan. And if his mental issues are genuine which I think they are, then I wish him all the best and I hope he can come back fully recovered. However, it is almost 12 months since he has defended his belts, in light of the news about his ill health it is time to let the division move on. Strip the belts, and gaurantee him shots at each of them when he returns. Doesn't really matter in my opinion that they may end up with different owners, Fury should just be gauranteed mandatory status as soon as he returns for each belt. That shouldnt really be a problem, the organisations won;t look heartless and Fury can fight for his belts back. Not really much different than defending them in my opinion is it? Plus, he would still be the genuine, lineal champ anyway.

Personal opinion is the man clearly suffers some form of mental health issue. There can be no doubt surely? Watched a lot of interviews with him and sometimes he actually seems like a pretty smart guy and comes across quite well. Others he just looks absolutely off it!

Correction, almost 12 months without defending

He has hinted at health issues before. He seems very manic in a number of interviews. I don't think he is lying.

kingraf wrote:Mental health is a serious issue. Yes. But do you think in a similar situation US open would stop the competition indefinitely until Warwinka got the help he might need? There's surely a time limit for a man to hold the titles without actually defending them? The IBF are probably laughing all the way to the Sanction bank at the moment.

There's also a limit on how long the fans care about linear-ship and who beat 'the man'. As Trussy has often pointed out, when Tyson (the real one) was unifying the belts and defending every few months, most people stopped caring that the inactive Spinks was the real champion, as it was Tyson who was dominating the division. If a few of the big names start fighting each other, Fury will soon find himself irrelevant.

'clearly has health issues'

v2 forum medical panel strikes again......

maybe he's just a fooking be!!end that's more interested buying shorts for England fans and larging it up on dancefloors than knuckling down on his health & fitness and saving his boxing career.

TopHat24/7 wrote:'clearly has health issues'

v2 forum medical panel strikes again......

maybe he's just a fooking be!!end that's more interested buying shorts for England fans and larging it up on dancefloors than knuckling down on his health & fitness and saving his boxing career.

WTF is wrong with you altogether?

Why is it some absolute muppets need to come on internet forums constantly nit picking at people over absolutely nothing instead of talking about the subject matter? Does it make you feel hard? Do you get some weird sexual feelings out of it or something?

Being a be!!end and being mentally ill aren't mutually exclusive Toppy. It's quite possible he's both!

All supposition until we hear if/what he actually/allegedly does/doesn't have.

milkyboy wrote:Being a be!!end and being mentally ill aren't mutually exclusive Toppy. It's quite possible he's both!

All supposition until we hear if/what he actually/allegedly does/doesn't have.

Phew, dodged another bullet!

milkyboy wrote:Being a be!!end and being mentally ill aren't mutually exclusive Toppy. It's quite possible he's both!

All supposition until we hear if/what he actually/allegedly does/doesn't have.

You clearly don't spend much time on Social Media milky. I have learned over the last couple of days that anybody who does not sit in a darkened room crying 24/7 does not have any kind of mental illness.

Rowley wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Being a be!!end and being mentally ill aren't mutually exclusive Toppy. It's quite possible he's both!

All supposition until we hear if/what he actually/allegedly does/doesn't have.

You clearly don't spend much time on Social Media milky. I have learned over the last couple of days that anybody who does not sit in a darkened room crying 24/7 does not have any kind of mental illness.

Aren't they just emo kids (if they still exist?)

EX7EY wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:'clearly has health issues'

v2 forum medical panel strikes again......

maybe he's just a fooking be!!end that's more interested buying shorts for England fans and larging it up on dancefloors than knuckling down on his health & fitness and saving his boxing career.

WTF is wrong with you altogether?

Why is it some absolute muppets need to come on internet forums constantly nit picking at people over absolutely nothing instead of talking about the subject matter? Does it make you feel hard? Do you get some weird sexual feelings out of it or something?

I am talking about the subject matter you utter imbecile.

The subject matter being Fury's latest excuse for not defending his belts, perhaps now indefinitely, based on zero actual medical evidence. Yet everyone on here is taking scarce implication reading trench deep between the lines to absolve Fury of any responsibility purely because his latest issue is PRESUMED 'mental'. And 'mental' always gets special treatment.

I think that is a big sack of horsesh!t.

Rowley wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Being a be!!end and being mentally ill aren't mutually exclusive Toppy. It's quite possible he's both!

All supposition until we hear if/what he actually/allegedly does/doesn't have.

You clearly don't spend much time on Social Media milky. I have learned over the last couple of days that anybody who does not sit in a darkened room crying 24/7 does not have any kind of mental illness.

Are you his Dr?

Do you have any medical qualifications in fact?

No to both. I.e. you're just making it up as you go along and getting haughty in the process, as if excessive sympathy for percieved mental issues makes you a better person.

Plenty of people have minor (i.e. not straight jacket padded room) sh!t they deal with and they still get on with their lives. How sympathetic do you think your boss would be if you said you needed 1+ years off for mental health issues, whilst not providing a Drs report, and then he saw you out on the lash regularly????

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Rowley wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Being a be!!end and being mentally ill aren't mutually exclusive Toppy. It's quite possible he's both!

All supposition until we hear if/what he actually/allegedly does/doesn't have.

You clearly don't spend much time on Social Media milky. I have learned over the last couple of days that anybody who does not sit in a darkened room crying 24/7 does not have any kind of mental illness.

Are you his Dr?

Do you have any medical qualifications in fact?

No to both. I.e. you're just making it up as you go along and getting haughty in the process, as if excessive sympathy for percieved mental issues makes you a better person.

Plenty of people have minor (i.e. not straight jacket padded room) sh!t they deal with and they still get on with their lives.  How sympathetic do you think your boss would be if you said you needed 1+ years off for mental health issues, whilst not providing a Drs report, and then he saw you out on the lash regularly????

I heavily agree with your last point.

you are aware of the sizeable correlation between alcoholism and mental illness toppy? Being out on the lash, doesn't necessarily mean you're having a great time... and even if you are, excessive highs are a symptom of bipolar disorder.

what he has or doesn't have is all supposition if/until we're given a diagnosis

milkyboy wrote:you are aware of the sizeable correlation between alcoholism and mental illness toppy? Being out on the lash, doesn't necessarily mean you're having a great time... and even if you are, excessive highs are a symptom of bipolar disorder.

what he has or doesn't have is all supposition if/until we're given a diagnosis

And we don't have a diagnosis......so why all the forgiveness?

'out on the lash' doesn't have to mean paralytic drunk with alcoholism. He didn't seem too drunk when flying to France for an impromptu holiday and bowling around buying shots for fans.

Always very convenient when people suddenly start bi-polar claims..........."when I was out having all that fun I was on my 'up' but when I have to take some responsibility or do something I don't like I'm on my 'down' therefore I am blameless".

Absolute crock.

Strip him and move on.

I like the earlier suggestion about strip him, allow others to fight for his titles, but give him an automatic right to fight for them back at any point in the next, say, 3 years. If he can't get his sh!t together in that period then tough, that's life, move on (with your £millions£ in your pocket).

Rowley wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Being a be!!end and being mentally ill aren't mutually exclusive Toppy. It's quite possible he's both!

All supposition until we hear if/what he actually/allegedly does/doesn't have.

You clearly don't spend much time on Social Media milky. I have learned over the last couple of days that anybody who does not sit in a darkened room crying 24/7 does not have any kind of mental illness.

Quite. Whilst there are many types and degrees of mental illness, if some of those twitterati ever lived with someone with mental illness,  they might find themselves wishing they spent more time in a darkened room crying 24/7, rather than the probably more typical reality of the putting on of a public face, and then spreading their misery onto those around them in private.

I’m not his doctor, nobody on here is I suspect. We’re all working off the same second hand and limited information. What we do know though is Tyson Fury is having some issues, be they a lack of motivation, alcoholism or full blown mental illness, whatever it is, is sufficient for him to walk away from a seven figure payday and possibly the titles he has worked the bulk of his life to win. Given all this it is fairly safe to say whatever issues he has, or whatever tag you choose to apportion to them are pretty serious.

When confronted on Sunday morning by this news and the situation that another human being is clearly struggling with some issues my initial reaction was to offer them sympathy and wish them a speedy recovery, the position of plenty on here was to slag him off. I’m more than happy with my position on this matter.

Does anyone actually look after Tyson Fury?  There was no-one to drive him to the press conference which was delayed and then he didn't turn up.  He is free to post misogynistic, homophobic, anti-Semitic rants onto the web.  It is reported that he hasn't been training.  He says he doesn't want to fight.  He says he can't be bothered.  He says he is a fat man.  If what he has been saying has been the truth - then that is just it - he is just not bothered.  He is probably unfit to fight physically because of the lack of training because his mind isn't in it.  He would probably be mentally fine if he wasn't fighting.  But he is not "mentally fine" for someone about to fight Wladimir Klistchko in a months time.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

milkyboy wrote:you are aware of the sizeable correlation between alcoholism and mental illness toppy? Being out on the lash, doesn't necessarily mean you're having a great time... and even if you are, excessive highs are a symptom of bipolar disorder.

what he has or doesn't have is all supposition if/until we're given a diagnosis

And we don't have a diagnosis......so why all the forgiveness?

'out on the lash' doesn't have to mean paralytic drunk with alcoholism.  He didn't seem too drunk when flying to France for an impromptu holiday and bowling around buying shots for fans.

Always very convenient when people suddenly start bi-polar claims..........."when I was out having all that fun I was on my 'up' but when I have to take some responsibility or do something I don't like I'm on my 'down' therefore I am blameless".

Absolute crock.

Strip him and move on.

I like the earlier suggestion about strip him, allow others to fight for his titles, but give him an automatic right to fight for them back at any point in the next, say, 3 years.  If he can't get his sh!t together in that period then tough, that's life, move on (with your £millions£ in your pocket).

we don't have a diagnosis Toppy, which is why all the 'forgiveness' is premature, though most are saying 'if'... and why your presumption that he's just an a*se and there's nothing wrong with him, is inappropriate.

There are undoubtedly some illness junkies who get on the latest bandwagon, but the serious cases are a genuine illness. I'm out this weekend for the annual remembrance of a friend with who killed himself, I've been by the hospital bed of an over-dosed girlfriend. Both had been diagnosed with depression, but they weren't sitting at home with pencils up their noses for months beforehand. I'm sure many reading this have similar experiences.

Perhaps if I'd just given them a little slap and told them to buck their ideas up, he'd still be here and she wouldn't have been full board in a mental hospital  for several months on a cocktail of narcotics keith richards would wince at.

Ps that sprained ankle according to some reports was caused not by Tyson Fury twisting his ankle while on a fitness run but by jumping over a barrier at a techno music festival:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3661796/Tyson-Fury-scrapped-rematch-twisting-ankle-techno-rave.html

There is also a coincidence in the timing of the announcement of the first postponement by the Tyson camp due to a sprained ankle and UKAD charging Tyson Fury for failing a drugs test:

"On Friday 24 June 2016, it was announced that this fight would be postponed to a later date due to Fury sustaining a sprained ankle in training.  On the same day, Tyson Fury and his cousin, Hughie Fury, were charged by UK Anti-Doping "with presence of a prohibited substance", a misconduct the two boxers "strenously deny".  On September 23, Fury again postponed the fight after being declared "medically unfit"."
[from Wikipedia].

This latest postponement follows on from Tyson Fury telling some drug testers from UKAD to f&ck off. That said "mental issues" will probably cover that alleged transgression.

To get in or get out?

From the Daily Mail Article:

"A source told The Sun: 'Tyson was partying at the Walled Garden stage into the early hours.

'He tried to leap over a low barrier from the VIP area on to the dance floor and landed very awkwardly.

'He cried out in agony and ended up sprawled on the floor. He had to be led out with two of his pals supporting him.'

Another source at the event said: 'Tyson was really partying hard, then seemed to slip.

'Everyone knew he'd hurt his ankle. I thought, 'There's no way he'll be able to fight Klitschko with that injury'. Sure enough, two weeks later he postponed it.'

His promoter Frank Warren strongly denies the revellers' claims and said he was in full training after the festival."


If Fury twisted his ankle at the festival then it must have happened two weeks before he was charged with doping and two weeks before the announcement was made that he had sprained his ankle and the fight was to be postponed.

Fair enough, I'd risk a broken neck to avoid listening to techno music

Boxing...it's struggling to make people give a damn either way.

I thought Tyson had already fought this fight and won it two weeks after retiring because he had decided he was going to go fight with the Kurds to save Hong Kong from a Japanese Invasion.

No idea if he is ill or not and to some extent that is down to the Fury personality............Certainly Uncle's comments didn't help.

Though Milky is spot on to point out the correlation between depression and alcohol. Vicious loop in a lot of cases.

I don't begrudge the bodies stripping him....These things take time and you can't hold the belts indefinitely..

Not fair to his opponents.

Maybe DerbyManc will see this thread and give us his experiences of clinical depression...No one knows it better than someone who has suffered it.

I have GAD, which is basically depression.

I don't take medication, but basically should.

Think about the happiest day of your lives. It might be the day you became a father.

It might be the day you got married. Or for some lucky buggers, the day you got divorced.

Now even in your happiest days! You still feel down, or have worries. Not a day goes past that you don't have negative thoughts.

That is depression. Very hard to function in the world, but strangely enough, you don't complain. Or use it as an excuse.

It is part of who you are and you make the most of it.

I have no problem admitting that there are days I would rather be dead than alive, but you try to think of the glass half full.

The above is a wee taste of anxiety/depression.

Harsh or not I couldn't give a toss about Tyson Fury, strip the fool and let those who give a damn get on with things.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Harsh or not I couldn't give a toss about Tyson Fury, strip the fool and let those who give a damn get on with things.

It's harsh but fair.

My mum suffered with depression when I was in my teens. To the point she developed alopecia, which thankfully for her was not permanent. She is better now, and back to her old self. I can say as a teenage lad coming from a single parent background (parents divorced when i was 4) it was a very difficult time just to live with someone suffering with mental health issues, to actually suffer them must be almost impossible for some people.

AdamT wrote:Now even in your happiest days! You still feel down, or have worries. Not a day goes past that you don't have negative thoughts.

I'm like that cos I have two small children and they're growing up in a society that seems determined to f*ck itself six ways from Sunday....also, my next door neighbour's wife won't sleep with me but that's another matter!

DAVE667 wrote:

AdamT wrote:Now even in your happiest days! You still feel down, or have worries. Not a day goes past that you don't have negative thoughts.

I'm like that cos I have two small children and they're growing up in a society that seems determined to f*ck itself six ways from Sunday....also, my next door neighbour's wife won't sleep with me but that's another matter!

That is sad!!

I hope you don't peek in through the windows at her!

AdamT wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

AdamT wrote:Now even in your happiest days! You still feel down, or have worries. Not a day goes past that you don't have negative thoughts.

I'm like that cos I have two small children and they're growing up in a society that seems determined to f*ck itself six ways from Sunday....also, my next door neighbour's wife won't sleep with me but that's another matter!

That is sad!!

I hope you don't peek in through the windows at her!

I do, but I'm in my house watching her do the school run in those really, REALLY low cut blouses (OK Ritchie, settle down!). One winter I was clearing the snow of the path with husband and she leaned out of the bedroom window to tell us we'd missed a bit. Her boobs were spilling out of her negligee, it was lovely!!

DAVE667 wrote:

AdamT wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

AdamT wrote:Now even in your happiest days! You still feel down, or have worries. Not a day goes past that you don't have negative thoughts.

I'm like that cos I have two small children and they're growing up in a society that seems determined to f*ck itself six ways from Sunday....also, my next door neighbour's wife won't sleep with me but that's another matter!

That is sad!!

I hope you don't peek in through the windows at her!

I do, but I'm in my house watching her do the school run in those really, REALLY low cut blouses (OK Ritchie, settle down!). One winter I was clearing the snow of the path with husband and she leaned out of the bedroom window to tell us we'd missed a bit. Her boobs were spilling out of her negligee, it was lovely!!

You probably dropped something white at the sight. lol

AdamT wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

AdamT wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

AdamT wrote:Now even in your happiest days! You still feel down, or have worries. Not a day goes past that you don't have negative thoughts.

I'm like that cos I have two small children and they're growing up in a society that seems determined to f*ck itself six ways from Sunday....also, my next door neighbour's wife won't sleep with me but that's another matter!

That is sad!!

I hope you don't peek in through the windows at her!

I do, but I'm in my house watching her do the school run in those really, REALLY low cut blouses (OK Ritchie, settle down!). One winter I was clearing the snow of the path with husband and she leaned out of the bedroom window to tell us we'd missed a bit. Her boobs were spilling out of her negligee, it was lovely!!

You probably dropped something white at the sight. lol

I was very grateful I had a long coat on!

Trench coat!

Everyone has a hot neighbour, or at least should have!!

AdamT wrote:Trench coat!

Everyone has a hot neighbour, or at least should have!!

We she certainly has!!!!!!!!

DAVE667 wrote:

AdamT wrote:Trench coat!

Everyone has a hot neighbour, or at least should have!!

We she certainly has!!!!!!!!

What's his name??

AdamT wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

AdamT wrote:Trench coat!

Everyone has a hot neighbour, or at least should have!!

We she certainly has!!!!!!!!

What's his name??

Trevor, he lives next door but one.

Should have used Trevor to melt the snow.

I think we live in a society where people think too much !!

In the old days people just got on with it....

People worry about things that don't matter and things they have no control over..

Life can be hard no need to complicate it..anymore than necessary.

I won't give that man the time of day... the dirty neighbour's wife stealing piece of sh!t

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think we live in a society where people think too much !!

In the old days people just got on with it....

People worry about things that don't matter and things they have no control over..

Life can be hard no need to complicate it..anymore than necessary.

I've seen precious little evidence of that over the years...as for this forum...

Going back to the Wiggins' thing for a second as I'm a little intrigued


It looks like most breathing specialists would only prescribe kenalog as a last resort to someone in the middle of a chronic life-threatening asthma attack?

You simple wouldn't prescribe it as a preventative?

I've had asthma all my life and no one has ever mentioned it to me

Am I right in presuming that what Wiggins was banging up is THE drug of choice for the modern day doper the holy grail of steroids for the long-distance cyclist looking to gain an advantage, one of the most potent corticosteroids known to science?

And that an intramuscular injection of a similar dosage just before a race is exactly the same procedure used by the hardened cheat?

The benefits on not only recovery the day after but also as in the lack of feeling pain on a steep hill climb would be incalcuable in my estimation we must be talking minutes each stage

So I have to ask the question would Bradley Wiggins, in a sport that lacks much real skill and relies mainly on physical attributes such as endurance, be anything other than a sporting mediocrity without the needles?

I just feel sorry for the honest hard working cyclists who must look upon Wiggins' success with dismay and who will never gain a fraction of Wiggins' fame and fortune

Hasn't broken any rules of course but what a joke the whole thing is , it's legal to take steroids now is it just as long as you get a TUE ! It's legal to cheat !

Herman Jaeger: Chris Froome agrees with you:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/37482568

Dave Brailsford is on a damage limitation exercise:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/37472728

Wiggins does have a problem and it has stuck.  Ultimately as Froome has indicated WADA and UCI need to tighten up on the TUE system.  That said this requires more funding for anti-doping programmes.