Fury vs Klitschko OFF

First topic message reminder :

Oh dear....

Always difficult with mental distress/disorders.
For one these things are all in a spectrum and it's almost guesswork deciding if a person is just afflicted with a mental health disorder or if it's debilitating. Fury has certainly publicly given credence to the idea that all may not be well upstairs, but he must have had a pretty good handle on it to have a decent amateur career and become a world champion. But these things change over time, and I'd suspect that in a sport where you're getting hit in the head on sparring, in fights etc the picture can change pretty quickly

Maybe he Is finding it hard coping with being number one.

Lots of people with mental issues, have very low self esteem. Maybe Fury found it easier being the underdog and people looking at him as being a buffoon.

The old saying is, 'it's tough at the top' is true for many.

Uncle Fury thinks his depression may have come from...hateful messages on twitter and not getting the recognition he deserves....

If that is the case then he isn't bi-polar......

He's had a year to defend....Can't hold the title indefinitely...

He should be stripped for sure.

Made champion emeritus I prefer

Fighters like Oliver McCall are proof that boxers with mental issues should never be allowed in the ring. Given the amount of time it would take to diagnose and successfully treat Fury then it's grossly unfair to allow him to keep the titles. Thought Wlad may have had a tad more sympathy given his fiancee's recent troubles but then again not everyone is as nice as me!!

If he is stripped, does he come the first champion in history to not defend the title? (exc. RJJ- I mean genuine champ) That would be sad.

Changing the subject a bit I think Eddy is now looking at Parker followed by Wlad early next year

Eddy would have liked to build the Parker fight but with recent developments the Parker fight will have to be next up if he beats Dimitrenko. Not sure how confident Parker's people are of beating Joshua to be honest

horizontalhero wrote:If he is stripped, does he come the first champion in history to not defend the title? (exc. RJJ- I mean genuine champ) That would be sad.

He failed a drugs test some time before the fight (Feb 2015) - so could be stripped off the belts anyway.  What is a mystery is why he was allowed to fight for the title given the failed drugs test.  There is something fishy / weird there that doesn't put the UK Anti-doping system in a good light.  They had to take action last year when he failed the test, not keep quiet then raise the issue over a year later in June 2016:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/02/tyson-fury-suing-uk-anti-doping-over-nandrolone-allegations

I've always wanted to ask why he was allowed to fight for the title given the failed drugs test

Something funny going on I mean this is an organisation who say Bradley Wiggins is clean ffs

Herman Jaeger wrote:I've always waited to ask why he was allowed to fight for the title given the failed drugs test

Something funny going on I mean this is an organisation who say Bradley Wiggins is clean ffs

Remind me when Wiggins failed a test?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:I've always waited to ask why he was allowed to fight for the title given the failed drugs test

Something funny going on I mean this is an organisation who say Bradley Wiggins is clean ffs

Remind me when Wiggins failed a test?

I don't follow cycling I'm afraid so couldn't give a fukc about it but let's just say ok Bradley was taking therapeutic levels(only therapeutic levels) of the most powerful corticosteroid out there. Yeah I believe you Bradley I really do

Which he had a TUE for, do explain what he's done wrong exactly.

High dose of intramuscular long-acting corticosteroid just before his races. No wouldn't have had the slightest benefit on his recovery how stupid of me

You're avoiding the question, do explain what he did wrong?

I'm a life long asthma sufferer too maybe he's never heard of ventolin

You also don't cycle up mountains for a living, he was given permission to do so by people a lot more knowledgeable than you.

Bradley Wiggins strip that man now

You don't have a clue what it's all about do you? Totally clueless.

Therapeutic levels my arris

You should go back to commenting on boxers you've never watched.

Enjoying my popcorn :-)

Strip that man

Very naive to think Wiggins wasn't tying to gain an edge.

Though Hammer has a point about no actual rules being broken

Must read up on the subject.

Don't know a lot about cycling but the whole TUE thing seems to be a bit shady potentially and open for abuse. I get the whole idea that if you're ill you should get permission to take necessary medicine without punishment. However if said medicine can also have performance enhancing qualities it does not take too much imagination to see how it can be abused. It would only take a favourable diagnosis and prescription at the right time to abuse the system.

Am not suggesting Wiggins or sky did that but when a team markets itself as whiter than white questions will inevitably be asked when they start operating in shades of grey.

Thanks Adam at least one sane voice around here

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:I've always waited to ask why he was allowed to fight for the title given the failed drugs test

Something funny going on I mean this is an organisation who say Bradley Wiggins is clean ffs

Remind me when Wiggins failed a test?

Or when did Lance Armstrong fail a drugs test?

Wiggins won unprecedented triple of Paris-Nice, Romandie & Dauphine & said at the time he was in form of his life/top health. Then goes on the Andrew Marr show and says he was “struggling” so needed the steroids. Also refused to speak to any reporters about the issue and only spoke to Andrew Marr who knows very little about the subject so the line of questions was extremely week indeed.

If you want blame the system that has allowed him to get away with it but to suggest that he didn’t take them for an advantage is Nelsonian blindness at it’s very finest.

I don't want to get involved in this Bradley Wiggins issue but of all the TUE revelations on British sportsmen & women it is this one that is raising further questions:

BBC wrote:Sir Bradley Wiggins: Former team doctor 'surprised' at drug prescription ... Dr John Dickinson, of Kent University, who has worked with more than 1,000 athletes with breathing problems, said he had never prescribed triamcinolone to an athlete.

He said: "That sort of medication [is] typically reserved for individuals who are in a very severe asthma response and are in need of emergency care which would suggest... that particular individual may not be fit and well to compete in a race at that point in time.

"I've never been myself involved with an athlete that's needed to go that far in terms of that sort of treatment for an asthmatic condition.

.... many cyclists, including convicted dopers David Millar and Michael Rasmussen, claim it is an extremely potent drug. ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37456623

BBC wrote:Sir Bradley Wiggins defends 'no injections' claim in 2012 autobiography ... The records show Wiggins was given permission to take two banned substances on several occasions between 2008 and 2013, prior to competitions including the 2011 and 2012 Tours de France and the 2013 Giro d'Italia.  One of the substances, triamcinolone, was taken for an allergy to pollen, according to the certificates.  It is the same drug for which disgraced American cyclist Lance Armstrong tested positive at the 1999 Tour de France.

... In his 2012 book My Time, Wiggins said he had "never had an injection, apart from my vaccinations, and on occasion I've been put on a drip, when I've come down with diarrhoea or something or have been severely dehydrated" ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/37397499

He obviously took the stuff to get the advantage. The loophole was there to exploit though. They knew exactly what they were doing.

TUE is fine in principle. A necessity really. The issue is that you're the relying on the medical profession to be honest. Unfortunately this is not always going to be the case. I don't blame WADA for this because I'm not sure what else they should do.

horizontalhero wrote:If he is stripped, does he come the first champion in history to not defend the title? (exc. RJJ- I mean genuine champ) That would be sad.

Tomas Molinares who beat Starling for his WBA gave up his title through depression..

kingraf wrote:TUE is fine in principle. A necessity really. The issue is that you're the relying on the medical profession to be honest. Unfortunately this is not always going to be the case. I don't blame WADA for this because I'm not sure what else they should do.

GPs and Medics tend to over-medicalise conditions in order to claim more control over them and the funds and status that comes with it. Mental issues is one area where they do this ... which brings us back to the topic under discussion.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:If he is stripped, does he come the first champion in history to not defend the title? (exc. RJJ- I mean genuine champ) That would be sad.

Tomas Molinares who beat Starling for his WBA gave up his title through depression..

I meant HW, sorry truss -didn't make myself clear. Because if I'm right and he is the first real HW champ to not defend his title, he would pretty much have to be considered the de facto worst ever champion, and whilst I'm no fan of his, the victory over Wlad merits better than that.

Eddie Hearn reckons Tyson Fury will never fight again, and says Klitschko's team would like a Joshua vs Klitschko fight on October 29th for the belts.  He says it is a little bit early for his liking for Joshua to be fighting Klitschko but that he thinks Klitschko is probably passed it and ready for the taking as indicated by his loss to Fury.  But he thinks the Fury camp will put in legal obstacles delaying the belts from being stripped off him for upwards of a year:

According to the BBC the latest from the Fury camp is it is all the fault of the British Media:
"On Sunday, Fury's uncle and trainer Peter said his charge's medical condition was caused by a "witchhunt" conducted by the British media in the wake of his stunning upset of Klitschko, who had not lost for 11 years"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/37465746


More bad news according to the Mirror: “Tyson was visited by (UKAD) testers over the last few weeks but just refused. He said, ‘F*** off’, and wouldn’t do it. His camp tried to contact UKAD to get him tested but to date that has not taken place.  Athletes who are found to have refused a drugs test or tampered with their sample face a minimum FOUR YEAR ban, according to officials."

Also from the Mirror: "Peter Fury demanded his nephew is not stripped of his belts. Taking to Twitter, he wrote: “With Tyson’s condition, he cannot be held culpable. He will not & should not be stripped of belts.”  He later added: “Belts will be determined by the right Legal process. In the meantime’ Singing in the rain fits the bill of today.”"
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing/heavyweight-boxing-champ-tyson-fury-8907432

With physical injuries one can usually put a reasonable timeframe on recovery. With mental illness, there's no way it can be determined. Are Fury's camp expecting the rest of the boxing world to wait until Fury himself is declared fit to fight again? Naïve and/or arrogant in the extreme.

Not sure if he has got clinical depression...Uncle seems to think lack of respect for his win over Wlad and nasty comments on social media may have attributed to his condition..

Sounds more like an over sensitive soul with a persecution complex.

Bi-polar disorder is medical...Win the lottery and you'd still feel suicidal...

Needs to spend more time thinking about what he has got rather than what he hasn't..

All that really matters in life is family...

What kind of idiot goes to the Crolla fight a day after postponing through depression....Really ??

Only need to look at this forum, anyone I know who knows about him and the YTBC to see they have a point

He dethroned 'The man' at heavyweight in his own back yard and got virtually NO credit for it. Yet the 'Faded' Klitschko is still going to be heavily favoured over Joshua, Pulev, rematch with Povetkin, Wilder etc..

Tells you something really

I would pick Tyson to beat Wald even clearer this time, unfortunately it isn't going to happen

Feel sorry for Tyson, but it could be because of this impending drugs investigation and he doesn't want to be in the spotlight when it all comes crashing down, who knows?

I totally agree that he hasn't been given the respect he definitely deserves for that great win

Hopefully someone else in the heavyweight division can see how Tyson beat him and see if they can replicate it, I doubt it though

Wlad is 40 years old though, so he will probably retire soon anyway

AJ could smash Wlad now.

AdamT wrote:AJ could smash Wlad now.

Agreed, Wlad is generally gunshy and AJ should go in and give him something to think about early doors and put him into his shell for the rest of the fight. He's got the size, reach and power to do it and even if he does lose, he's young enough to come back and it would be a good learning experience for him.

DAVE667 wrote:

AdamT wrote:AJ could smash Wlad now.

Agreed, Wlad is generally gunshy and AJ should go in and give him something to think about early doors and put him into his shell for the rest of the fight. He's got the size, reach and power to do it and even if he does lose, he's young enough to come back and it would be a good learning experience for him.

Agreed and Wlad's age has caught up with him.

I think Haye would ko him now as well. Wlad is old!

Klit still has a pulse..

That rules that fight out.

He was very gun shy in his last fight.

AdamT wrote:He was very gun shy in his last fight.

Because Fury didn't let him land his JAB

The way to beat him is to not let him get into the jabbing rhythm, when he can't land the jab he won't throw anything else

AJ would have to do the same, or get jabbed to death

BoxingFan88 wrote:

AdamT wrote:He was very gun shy in his last fight.

Because Fury didn't let him land his JAB

The way to beat him is to not let him get into the jabbing rhythm, when he can't land the jab he won't throw anything else

AJ would have to do the same, or get jabbed to death

Tis is true, but I do think his age has also played a big part.

Aj would blast him with a straight right. Game over!

BoxingFan88 wrote:Only need to look at this forum, anyone I know who knows about him and the YTBC to see they have a point

He dethroned 'The man' at heavyweight in his own back yard and got virtually NO credit for it. Yet the 'Faded' Klitschko is still going to be heavily favoured over Joshua, Pulev, rematch with Povetkin, Wilder etc..

Tells you something really

I would pick Tyson to beat Wald even clearer this time, unfortunately it isn't going to happen

Feel sorry for Tyson, but it could be because of this impending drugs investigation and he doesn't want to be in the spotlight when it all comes crashing down, who knows?

I totally agree that he hasn't been given the respect he definitely deserves for that great win

Hopefully someone else in the heavyweight division can see how Tyson beat him and see if they can replicate it, I doubt it though

Wlad is 40 years old though, so he will probably retire soon anyway

Can't agree with the statement that he got virtually no credit- at the time he got loads of credit by critics and fans alike, but then rather than getting on with is career, he spent the next 10 months making an arse of himself, and eroding the good will. He could have underlined the performance by defending the title - instead his first move to confirm who he wouldn't defend against, and in a division as shallow as HW that hardly filled us fans with hope. Yes the win deserved respect, but let's not over inflate it. His subsequent inactivity means that it looks like one highlight in an otherwise mediocre career , and against that back drop people are bound to question how much Wlad had left in the tank, and let's be honest, Wlad is not going to be heavily favored if he fights Joshua.
Oh, and what does YTBC mean?

Wlad didn't grow old against Klitschko - he was the same (bizarrely eternally youthful) Wlad we'd seen in previous fights. Fury made him hesitant. He made him think before throwing a punch as Klitschko hates being hit back.

This was one of the few occasions he was in with someone his own size who could fight a bit and could carry that out.

Oddschecker currently have Klitschko vs Joshua a virtual pick 'em fight.

hazharrison wrote:Wlad didn't grow old against Klitschko - he was the same (bizarrely eternally youthful) Wlad we'd seen in previous fights. Fury made him hesitant. He made him think before throwing a punch as Klitschko hates being hit back.

This was one of the few occasions he was in with someone his own size who could fight a bit and could carry that out.

Oddschecker currently have Klitschko vs Joshua a virtual pick 'em fight.

Half agree with this...I think Fury intimidated him......But Wlad isn't going to be as good at 40 he just isn't...

Reflexes are slower..Not as much in the tank.....Age has its effects..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Wlad didn't grow old against Klitschko - he was the same (bizarrely eternally youthful) Wlad we'd seen in previous fights. Fury made him hesitant. He made him think before throwing a punch as Klitschko hates being hit back.

This was one of the few occasions he was in with someone his own size who could fight a bit and could carry that out.

Oddschecker currently have Klitschko vs Joshua a virtual pick 'em fight.

Half agree with this...I think Fury intimidated him......But Wlad isn't going to be as good at 40 he just isn't...

Reflexes are slower..Not as much in the tank.....Age has its effects..

Which only works if AJ puts him under pressure and makes him work. is AJ smart enough to do that, Wlad may just have enough nous to negate AJ's offence and then we need to see if AJ has a plan B. Plenty of ifs buts and maybes...