NZ v Ireland, Chicago, 4 November 2016

       
IRELAND v NEW ZEALAND
5 November 2016
15:00 CDT / 20:00 GMT
Soldier Field, Chicago, USA

Live on eir Sport and BT Sport

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant Referees: Luke Pearce (England), Ben Whitehouse (Wales)
TMO: Rowan Kitt (England)

A. Head to Head

28 Played 28
0 Won 27
1 Drawn 1
27 Lost 0
310 Points 812

B. Recent Form

24 November 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
22 – 24 to New Zealand

23 June 2012
Waikato Stadium, Hamilton
60 – 0 to New Zealand

16 June 2012
Rugby League Park, Christchurch
22 – 19 to New Zealand

9 June 2012
Eden Park, Auckland
42 – 10 to New Zealand

20 November 2010
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
18 – 38 to New Zealand

C. Teams


NEW ZEALAND 

1. Joe Moody
2. Dane Coles
3. Owen Franks
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
5. Jerome Kaino
6. Liam Squire
7. Sam Cane
8. Kieran Read – captain
9. Aaron Smith
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Julian Savea
12. Ryan Crotty
13. George Moala
14. Waisake Naholo
15. Ben Smith

16. Codie Taylor
17. Ofa Tu’ungafasi
18. Charlie Faumuina
19. Scott Barrett
20. Ardie Savea
21. TJ Perenara
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Malakai Fekitoa


IRELAND

1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Furlong
4 Ryan
5 Toner
6 Stander
7 Murphy
8 Heaslip
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Zebo
12 Henshaw
13 Payne
14 Trimble
15 Kearney
16 Cronin
17 Healy
18 Bealham
19 Dillane
20 van der Flier
21 Marmion
22 Carbery
23 Ringrose

Just thought I'd start.

News is NZ will be without Whitelock (Ankle) and Retallick (Concussion). Probably replaced by Romano and Tuipulotu, with Squires probably covering the reserve. It's an interesting issue for NZ. Our lineout has been strong this year. The loss of our two tallest locks could be problematic.

Anyone want to summerise the Irish injuries going into the game?

Has the ref been chosen yet?

Wayne Barnes would be a good pick (both sides respect him), but no doubt it will be Nige. This is exactly the kind of circus he would enjoy.

Cyril wrote:Has the ref been chosen yet?

Wayne Barnes would be a good pick (both sides respect him), but no doubt it will be Nige. This is exactly the kind of circus he would enjoy.

Just updated. Don't know much about Reynal. Looks like his 7th test match. Hasn't refereed the AB's, but I think refereed Ireland v South Africa in June. Just read he's suffered a couple of horror injuries refereeing club rugby.

Ah, Raynal was the guy who got that terrible injury a few years back when he got his leg trapped during a game. Don't Google the video!

Don't know anything else about him.

Ireland:

1) McGrath
2) Best
3) Furlong
4) Ryan
5) Toner
6) O'Mahony/Stander
7) van der Flier
8) Heaslip
9) Murray
10) Sexton
11) Zebo
12) Henshaw
13) Payne
14) Trimble
15) Kearney

Subs: Cronin, Healy, Bealham, Dillane, Stander/O'Mahony, Marmion, Jackson, Ringrose

Johnny Sexton offers the little intriguing morsel about the game against the All Blacks in 2013..... the players weren't fit enough - then.

Hmmm............... thinking back to that game, I'd have to say that they looked a ton fitter in 2013 than they looked in 2015 at the World Cup.    

So we're back to square one, Johnny.  80 minutes of sprint'n'dart ability - not a second less.  Do we really have that kind of fitness and stamina built up to contain the All Blacks for 80 minutes?  
We'll see - but for me, ultra fitness has always been our Achilles tendon when we come up against these Southern Hemisphere teams.  Yeah, probably enough juice to win one or two isolated games but fitness always lets us down through the majority of encounters.
Is 2016 going to be the year Ireland proves they've gotten serious about it?

Cyril wrote:Has the ref been chosen yet?

Wayne Barnes would be a good pick (both sides respect him), but no doubt it will be Nige. This is exactly the kind of circus he would enjoy.

Could be the first game in history where both sides refused to come out of the tunnel under protest.

Okay, based on the Leinster team for this weekend, we may actually see Henshaw and Ringrose in the centres. Which would be quite remarkable for Ringrose to earn his debut against the All Blacks.

Payne at 15. Jordi Murphy starting at 7 (sigh).

Kearney is playing for Leinster tomorrow and Ringrose isn't. Make what you will of that. Can't argue with the pack, it picks itself bar the BR where 5 needs to become 3 +1.

As for the backs, since Kearney might not be starting I'm going for this lineup.

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Marshall
Zebo Payne Trimble

Marmion (maybe even McGrath), Jackson, Ringrose

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Okay, based on the Leinster team for this weekend, we may actually see Henshaw and Ringrose in the centres. Which would be quite remarkable for Ringrose to earn his debut against the All Blacks.

Payne at 15. Jordi Murphy starting at 7 (sigh).

Yeah Dillane will be starting too by the looks of things,while I don't think many of us would pick Murphy at 7 it's not like he's a bad player,he was part of a 2 man backrow that won in S.A.

the-goon wrote:Kearney is playing for Leinster tomorrow and Ringrose isn't. Make what you will of that. Can't argue with the pack, it picks itself bar the BR where 5 needs to become 3 +1.

As for the backs, since Kearney might not be starting I'm going for this lineup.

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Marshall
Zebo Payne Trimble

Marmion (maybe even McGrath), Jackson, Ringrose

Is Ringrose versatile enough for the bench? (Leaving aside questions as to whether he is good enough.) What happens if Trimble or Zebo gets injured?

the-goon wrote:Kearney is playing for Leinster tomorrow and Ringrose isn't. Make what you will of that. Can't argue with the pack, it picks itself bar the BR where 5 needs to become 3 +1.

As for the backs, since Kearney might not be starting I'm going for this lineup.

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Marshall
Zebo Payne Trimble

Marmion (maybe even McGrath), Jackson, Ringrose

There are exactly 17 players from the squad that aren't lining out for their province at the weekend,2 are injured/suspended so 15 available for selection against N.Z..Coincidentally that 15 would make up a team that looks like this.

15. Payne
14. Trimble
13. Ringrose
12. Henshaw
11. Zebo
10. Sexton
9. Murray

1. McGrath
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Dillane
6. Stander
7. Murphy
8. Heaslip

I would bet a lot of money that barring any late withdrawals that's the team.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

the-goon wrote:Kearney is playing for Leinster tomorrow and Ringrose isn't. Make what you will of that. Can't argue with the pack, it picks itself bar the BR where 5 needs to become 3 +1.

As for the backs, since Kearney might not be starting I'm going for this lineup.

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Marshall
Zebo Payne Trimble

Marmion (maybe even McGrath), Jackson, Ringrose

There are exactly 17 players from the squad that aren't lining out for their province at the weekend,2 are injured/suspended so 15 available for selection against N.Z..Coincidentally that 15 would make up a team that looks like this.

15. Payne
14. Trimble
13. Ringrose
12. Henshaw
11. Zebo
10. Sexton
9. Murray

1. McGrath
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Dillane
6. Stander
7. Murphy
8. Heaslip

I would bet a lot of money that barring any late withdrawals that's the team.

I think you're right, based on the teams selected for the inter-pros. I do think that some players could play themselves into the starting 15 this weekend but that is probably unlikely. Schmidt seems pretty set in stone when it comes to some of his selection policies.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

the-goon wrote:Kearney is playing for Leinster tomorrow and Ringrose isn't. Make what you will of that. Can't argue with the pack, it picks itself bar the BR where 5 needs to become 3 +1.

As for the backs, since Kearney might not be starting I'm going for this lineup.

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Marshall
Zebo Payne Trimble

Marmion (maybe even McGrath), Jackson, Ringrose

There are exactly 17 players from the squad that aren't lining out for their province at the weekend,2 are injured/suspended so 15 available for selection against N.Z..Coincidentally that 15 would make up a team that looks like this.

15. Payne
14. Trimble
13. Ringrose
12. Henshaw
11. Zebo
10. Sexton
9. Murray

1. McGrath
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Dillane
6. Stander
7. Murphy
8. Heaslip

I would bet a lot of money that barring any late withdrawals that's the team.

I think you're right, based on the teams selected for the inter-pros. I do think that some players could play themselves into the starting 15 this weekend but that is probably unlikely. Schmidt seems pretty set in stone when it comes to some of his selection policies.

I still think 7 is up for grabs, all of Murphy, JVDF, SOB, POM in contention. SOB and POM need match practice so are playing. JVDF, is a break glass option for leinster.

Just read that the game will be on Eir sports will be broadcasting the game, so Virgin customers won't be able to watch it

marty2086 wrote:Just read that the game will be on Eir sports will be broadcasting the game, so Virgin customers won't be able to watch it

jeez How many virgins you got?

aucklandlaurie wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Just read that the game will be on Eir sports will be broadcasting the game, so Virgin customers won't be able to watch it

jeez How many virgins you got?

Not many in this part of the world

and the economics of the game .....

indo wrote:The reason we are playing in Chicago is because the sports marketing agency, Legacy Worldwide, is run by a Kiwi. They have the rights to bring in Test rugby to the US, and IRFU commercial manager Padraig Power put Ireland in the frame in a city that is home to the All Blacks' sponsors, AIG. With the Irish diaspora in that part of the world it is, as they say, the perfect fit.

It's understood the IRFU will clear circa €1m from the gig, where all the usual expenses once you land are catered for. Like resting your head in Donald's gaff. Could they not have stayed somewhere else?

Resent any of my money going to Donald Trump in even the most indirect way possible.

Cyril wrote:Has the ref been chosen yet?

Wayne Barnes would be a good pick (both sides respect him), but no doubt it will be Nige. This is exactly the kind of circus he would enjoy.

I see what you did there

EIR is it on Sky or freeview?or is it an irish only tv station?

Here's McGeechan's thoughts on beating the Ab's:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11738905

Good luck to Ireland playing them twice, once in Chicago and then again in Dublin.

Italy and France also play them, but they are unbeaten in 18 Tests, and I cannot see anything other than that sequence extending to 22, even if France have frightened them in the past. As I have said before, they are the best side in the world by two years.

If anyone is going to cause them problems it will be about matching their tempo and their game involvements from individuals.

Your kicking game and the kick-chase have to be so good against them, because otherwise it will come back at you with interest and in such a way that they can vary where they attack from.

You need a good attacking game against them because you just know they will score so many points against you. In that last match against Australia, they did not play particularly well and yet they still scored six tries and won comfortably.

You have to throw things at them and not just try to hold on to the game.

You have got to get the likes of first five-eighth Beauden Barrett and his midfield making a lot of tackles so that they are on the ground and out of the game. You have got to try to put pressure on them at the set piece to make them work harder there, and then the same applies at the first breakdown.

You must try to keep those two areas under real pressure to slow them down and prevent them getting across the gain-line early. That might force them to kick a bit more, which they will do. But ultimately one missed tackle, or a half tackle, and they are away on the front foot. That is what the British and Irish Lions are going to have to do next year. In that respect it is a pity it is only the Irish who get a hands-on feel for how the All Blacks play.

My thoughts. I'd add a few for this weekends game:

Look to dominate the lineout. NZ are likely to be without Whitelock and Retallick. This should give Ireland a significant height advantage at lock. The AB's lineout has been outstanding for most of this year. Ireland could potentially control this aspect of the game. This would allow them to play field position and limit NZ's attack of 1st phase.

Assuming the above, use the maul. It's not a huge part of our game, although we have improved our defence and use of the maul this year.

Attack in close to the ruck with powerful runners. We have struggled a bit in this area. It also allows Ireland to potentially attack NZ's halfback and 1st 5. Another benefit is allows ball retention.

Kick wisely. NZ is great at counter attacking. Australia did well in restricting their kicking in their last outing.

Keep the score board ticking over. Put pressure on the AB's Ireland have a world class goal kicker, NZ is struggling.

Just updated the OP - hope that's all right. 

What do Ireland want to achieve with this series of games? I am not being funny - it's a serious question. Leaving aside wanting to try to win and be competitive, what would Ireland fans like to see in terms of gameplan and team development?

George Carlin wrote:Just updated the OP - hope that's all right. 

What do Ireland want to achieve with this series of games? I am not being funny - it's a serious question. Leaving aside wanting to try to win and be competitive, what would Ireland fans like to see in terms of gameplan and team development?

Great. Feel free to do what you like.

Stats show NZ kick more than any other side,and usually have only forty
percent of the possession.In the last game it was estimated half way into
the second half.
They`d spent 90 seconds in the other sides 22 yet had scored 4 tries Cruden
had a 75% kickinh record.
Much has been made of the last minute win by NZ against Ireland,fright tho
it was.Ireland were the best side for 30 minutes before NZ went up a gear
they should still have lost but didn't.
After the thrashing the week before by Australia,in my opinion NZ made
lots of changes.Thinking more about giving people a game they thought
Ireland had no chance.
THAT won`t happen this weekend having lost the best Lock pairing in
the world.They will certainly be working on lineout drills and goalkicking
selection is key.
Start Sopaga with Smith at 9,Cruden and Barrett on the bench[as a utility]
Matt Todd deserves a run at 7 being very much the form guy.

emack2 wrote:EIR is it on Sky or freeview?or is it an irish only tv station?

Its the former Setanta channels and part of the BT package

Notch wrote:Resent any of my money going to Donald Trump in even the most indirect way possible.

Triggered

George Carlin wrote:Just updated the OP - hope that's all right. 

What do Ireland want to achieve with this series of games? I am not being funny - it's a serious question. Leaving aside wanting to try to win and be competitive, what would Ireland fans like to see in terms of gameplan and team development?

As well as the victory we will finally achieve, I would like to see some of the younger players that will be involved in this series step up as they get the best possible experience against the All Blacks. I think this is particularly clever by Schmidt, actually. The predicted team looks interesting and suggests we are certainly going to select the most well balanced XV in terms of attacking ability, defensive prowess and experience.

http://www.the42.ie/garry-ringrose-ireland-chicago-all-blacks-2016-3055211-Oct2016/

Also, based on the above link, I would go with asoreleftshoulder's team as the likely starting XV:

1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Furlong
4 Dillane
5 Toner
6 Stander
7 Murphy
8 Heaslip
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Zebo
12 Henshaw
13 Ringrose
14 Trimble
15 Payne

I always get this way and am then disappointed but once again I am hugely optimistic that we can win this one.Hopefully our much more aggressive defense can be the catalyst as we need to keep them below 25 to have a chance.

In England at least, Sky are advertising they have all the Ireland games.

No 7&1/2 wrote:In England at least, Sky are advertising they have all the Ireland games.

They're advertising that they're all the "Guinness Series" Autumn internationals.The match in Chicago is a separate event organised by AIG.

No 7&1/2 wrote:In England at least, Sky are advertising they have all the Ireland games.

Sky aren't advertising the first AB game though, its not part of the Guiness series so its Canada, 2nd AB game and Wallabies they are showing

Tricksy advertising that!

Not being shown live (that I can see)... But BT Sport3 have the "whole" game shown at 2:30pm on Sun 6th Nov. Of course, if they are showing the whole game on the Sun on their channel, they may have it streamed live on their site..

No9 wrote:Not being shown live (that I can see)... But BT Sport3 have the "whole" game shown at 2:30pm on Sun 6th Nov. Of course, if they are showing the whole game on the Sun on their channel, they may have it streamed live on their site..

Scrub that... it is on live...

BT Sports 2 .. TV coverage starts at 7:45pm Sat 5th Nov..

Was confused, as thread mentioned Friday 4th Nov.. When I actually checked the fixture and saw it was the 5th Nov at 2000hrs, it was easy to see that BT Sports are covering it.. oh and it is being shown again on BT Sports 3 on the Sunday (2:30pm).

Ah good, no Stuart Barnes.

Joey Carbery named in 27 man Ireland squad, Paddy Jackson unavailable due to personal reasons.

Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) captain
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster)*
Sean Cronin (St Marys/Leinster)
Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)
Tadgh Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Craig Gilroy (Bangor/Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) vice captain
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster)
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Kieran Marmion (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)*
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)*
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Jonathan Sexton (St Marys/Leinster)
CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

No Jackson, Henderson, POM, SOB, Marshall or Tracy.

So we're looking at something like

1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Furlong
4 Don Ryan
5 Toner
6 Stander
7 VDF
8 Heaslip
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Zebo
12 Henshaw
13 Payne
14 Trimble
15 Kearney

16 Cronin
17 Healy
18 Bealham
19 Dillane
20 Murphy
21 Carbery
22 Marmion
23 Ringrose

Holland, John Ryan, Luke McGrath, Gilroy on standby. There won't be too many changes from that side.

O'Driscoll not happy about the Haka.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/haka-tradition-must-be-abused-or-at-least-ignored-1.2848417

profitius wrote:No Jackson, Henderson, POM, SOB, Marshall or Tracy.

So we're looking at something like

1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Furlong
4 Don Ryan
5 Toner
6 Stander
7 VDF
8 Heaslip
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Zebo
12 Henshaw
13 Payne
14 Trimble
15 Kearney

16 Cronin
17 Healy
18 Bealham
19 Dillane
20 Murphy
21 Carbery
22 Marmion
23 Ringrose

Holland, John Ryan, Luke McGrath, Gilroy on standby. There won't be too many changes from that side.

Dillane,Murphy and Ringrose will start,Payne to fullback.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
O'Driscoll  not happy about the  Haka.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/haka-tradition-must-be-abused-or-at-least-ignored-1.2848417

That article is by Gavin Cummiskey not O'Driscoll.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
O'Driscoll  not happy about the  Haka.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/haka-tradition-must-be-abused-or-at-least-ignored-1.2848417

That article is by Gavin Cummiskey not O'Driscoll.

I thought O'Driscoll was quoted in the article?

aucklandlaurie wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
O'Driscoll  not happy about the  Haka.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/haka-tradition-must-be-abused-or-at-least-ignored-1.2848417

That article is by Gavin Cummiskey not O'Driscoll.

I thought O'Driscoll was quoted in the article?

“It’s about taking control back,” said Brian O’Driscoll, well positioned to offer an option having stared it down 14 times.

“Including both anthems and then the haka, it is a long time to be standing around, particularly if you are respecting it by watching them.

“I absolutely think there should be a three or four minute period afterwards where teams are allowed do a second warm-up.

“It shouldn’t be when they are ready to play, it should be when both sides are ready to play.”


That quote, Laurie?

Three or four minutes after the Haka for both teams to warm up.  Not a bad proposal... the Kiwi lad's do get to start immediately after their blood warming Haka ...as the other lads are told to stand still

Schidt article, BTW. Some eejits need to grow up when it comes to the Haka.

"three or four minutes,"... the Haka only takes one minute.

Ireland will get colder standing around behind their posts waiting for conversions to be kicked.

You are right though Fly, people do need to grow up, I only posted the article because I was more surprised than anything else that people (Gavin Cummiskey) would think to even write such a piece.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
"three or four minutes,"... the Haka  only takes one minute.

Ireland will get colder standing around behind their posts waiting for conversions to be kicked.

You are right though Fly, people do need to grow up, I only posted the article because I was more surprised  than anything else that people (Gavin Cummiskey) would think to even write such a piece.

Cummiskey is a bit of a muppet,writes stuff that is designed to generate controversy.It's the way a lot of journalism is going unfortunately.

In fairness shoulder youre not on your own there.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
"three or four minutes,"... the Haka  only takes one minute.

Ireland will get colder standing around behind their posts waiting for conversions to be kicked.

You are right though Fly, people do need to grow up, I only posted the article because I was more surprised  than anything else that people (Gavin Cummiskey) would think to even write such a piece.

They were talking about the anthems too

marty2086 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
"three or four minutes,"... the Haka  only takes one minute.

Ireland will get colder standing around behind their posts waiting for conversions to be kicked.

You are right though Fly, people do need to grow up, I only posted the article because I was more surprised  than anything else that people (Gavin Cummiskey) would think to even write such a piece.

They were talking about the anthems too

Perhaps anthems could have got a mention in the headline too?