NZ v Ireland, Chicago, 4 November 2016

by Not grey and not a ghost Fri 28 Oct 2016, 10:50 am

First topic message reminder :

NZ v Ireland, Chicago, 4 November 2016 - Page 2 Irelan10

NZ v Ireland, Chicago, 4 November 2016 - Page 2 All_bl10

IRELAND v NEW ZEALAND
5 November 2016
15:00 CDT / 20:00 GMT
Soldier Field, Chicago, USA

Live on eir Sport and BT Sport

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant Referees: Luke Pearce (England), Ben Whitehouse (Wales)
TMO: Rowan Kitt (England)

A. Head to Head

28 Played 28
0 Won 27
1 Drawn 1
27 Lost 0
310 Points 812

B. Recent Form

24 November 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
22 – 24 to New Zealand

23 June 2012
Waikato Stadium, Hamilton
60 – 0 to New Zealand

16 June 2012
Rugby League Park, Christchurch
22 – 19 to New Zealand

9 June 2012
Eden Park, Auckland
42 – 10 to New Zealand

20 November 2010
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
18 – 38 to New Zealand

C. Teams

NEW ZEALAND

1. Joe Moody
2. Dane Coles
3. Owen Franks
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
5. Jerome Kaino
6. Liam Squire
7. Sam Cane
8. Kieran Read – captain
9. Aaron Smith
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Julian Savea
12. Ryan Crotty
13. George Moala
14. Waisake Naholo
15. Ben Smith

16. Codie Taylor
17. Ofa Tu’ungafasi
18. Charlie Faumuina
19. Scott Barrett
20. Ardie Savea
21. TJ Perenara
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Malakai Fekitoa

IRELAND

1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Furlong
4 Ryan
5 Toner
6 Stander
7 Murphy
8 Heaslip
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Zebo
12 Henshaw
13 Payne
14 Trimble
15 Kearney
16 Cronin
17 Healy
18 Bealham
19 Dillane
20 van der Flier
21 Marmion
22 Carbery
23 Ringrose

by **Notch** Mon 31 Oct 2016, 7:01 pm

Irish Times will make so much ad revenue just from outraged kiwis if the NZ media gets a hold of that. Journalist in knowing article about Haka will drive website traffic and be talked about scandal aside- very excited about this game.

Ireland may beat the All Blacks soon, but not this weekend- looks like we'll be using the opportunity to hand out several debuts. NZ rugby is pretty unique in handing out debuts to guys who instantly take to test level- Ireland is several light years behind. Just watching Ulster on Friday, Piutau was throwing offloads to guys that would have opened up the defence and they were caught totally off guard by it- a beat behind, a split second off being on his wavelength, being on his level. And these guys were Ireland internationals already.

No way does a Garry Ringrose or a Joey Carberry or a John Ryan come in and get to the level needed to beat this All Blacks side right off the bat. But with enough preparation time, Schmidt can put together a plan to cause this All Blacks side some problems. He'll have that time before the game in Dublin- this game is about blooding new players and boosting the IRFUs coffers.

But I hope we can have a real crack at them when they come to Dublin.

by Cyril Mon 31 Oct 2016, 8:39 pm

Irish home games against NZ (three anthems and a dance) gives me more time to go to the toilet and get my beers sorted. If I'm in a rush this is a godsend.

Admittedly the Chicago game will only be only be two anthems and a dance, but I'm sure our American cousins will chuck in a 'Bud Break' just after the kick-off for any late-comers Wink

by SecretFly Mon 31 Oct 2016, 8:58 pm

Our first two tries will be scored as you're zipping up that fly, Cyril. Bring a radio with you. You won't want to miss it. Smile

by Cyril Mon 31 Oct 2016, 9:02 pm

SecretFly wrote:Our first two tries will be scored as you're zipping up that fly, Cyril. Bring a radio with you. You won't want to miss it.

Thanks for the heads-up, Fly

I'll keep the wireless with me for the 89th minute NZ winning wonder-try if I get caught short.

PS I'll also keep the batteries on re-charge in case of a re-taken conversion... Wink

by **rodders** Tue 01 Nov 2016, 9:56 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
O'Driscoll not happy about the Haka.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/haka-tradition-must-be-abused-or-at-least-ignored-1.2848417

This is just to add some interest in what could be the most one sided game in ever.

I hope they have some half time entertainment from Sinead O'Connor to keep folks interested.

by marty2086 Tue 01 Nov 2016, 10:10 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
"three or four minutes,"... the Haka only takes one minute.

Ireland will get colder standing around behind their posts waiting for conversions to be kicked.

You are right though Fly, people do need to grow up, I only posted the article because I was more surprised than anything else that people (Gavin Cummiskey) would think to even write such a piece.

They were talking about the anthems too

Perhaps anthems could have got a mention in the headline too?

The writers problem is the Haka, BOD brought up the anthems and the logistics of it all

Maybe give the article a read before complaining about the complaints

by eirebilly Tue 01 Nov 2016, 10:21 am

I have never understood the dislike of the HAKA, I really like it myself and it is a symbol of Rugby.

by Guest Tue 01 Nov 2016, 10:23 am

marty2086 wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
"three or four minutes,"... the Haka only takes one minute.

Ireland will get colder standing around behind their posts waiting for conversions to be kicked.

You are right though Fly, people do need to grow up, I only posted the article because I was more surprised than anything else that people (Gavin Cummiskey) would think to even write such a piece.

They were talking about the anthems too

Perhaps anthems could have got a mention in the headline too?

The writers problem is the Haka, BOD brought up the anthems and the logistics of it all

Maybe give the article a read before complaining about the complaints

Quite a condescending article I thought

Oh well

by SecretFly Tue 01 Nov 2016, 10:24 am

rodders wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
O'Driscoll not happy about the Haka.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/haka-tradition-must-be-abused-or-at-least-ignored-1.2848417

This is just to add some interest in what could be the most one sided game in ever.

I hope they have some half time entertainment from Sinead O'Connor to keep folks interested.

She intends ripping up a big picture of the All Blacks doing a Haka and chanting out a song that goes: 'F**k America! F**k the Paddy yanks. If I had a little more money, I'd mow yis all down with Tanks!"

That should get the right mood going for a glorious second half.

by SecretFly Tue 01 Nov 2016, 10:26 am

ebop wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
"three or four minutes,"... the Haka only takes one minute.

Ireland will get colder standing around behind their posts waiting for conversions to be kicked.

You are right though Fly, people do need to grow up, I only posted the article because I was more surprised than anything else that people (Gavin Cummiskey) would think to even write such a piece.

They were talking about the anthems too

Perhaps anthems could have got a mention in the headline too?

The writers problem is the Haka, BOD brought up the anthems and the logistics of it all

Maybe give the article a read before complaining about the complaints
Quite a condescending article I thought

Oh well

I'd say more a Childish kid-in-a-cot-tantrum article. Kids don't do condescending too well.

by GunsGerms Tue 01 Nov 2016, 2:21 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
O'Driscoll not happy about the Haka.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/haka-tradition-must-be-abused-or-at-least-ignored-1.2848417

As a fan I love it and think it should remain. Maybe if I was a player it would irritate me as it does give special treatment to New Zealand and other teams with Hakas. I think however, Drico is just trying to be controversial now because media work is now his main source of income.

by GunsGerms Tue 01 Nov 2016, 2:48 pm

Enjoyed the extract from Ian McGeechan that someone posted. Some interesting stuff there. Personally I think that Ireland will look to start strong as they did in '13 and build a lead. Obviously that will be really tough. New Zealand in the last couple of years seem to win games in the second half, sometimes even going into half time behind. This could be an opportunity for Ireland.

by munkian Tue 01 Nov 2016, 3:13 pm

Wales have got the closet to them in recent games with 36 22 and NZ have continued to improve since then.

I really don't see it happening sorry.

by GunsGerms Tue 01 Nov 2016, 3:35 pm

munkian wrote:Wales have got the closet to them in recent games with 36 22 and NZ have continued to improve since then.

I really don't see it happening sorry.

Maybe they will get Norovirus. You never know.

by munkian Tue 01 Nov 2016, 3:41 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
munkian wrote:Wales have got the closet to them in recent games with 36 22 and NZ have continued to improve since then.

I really don't see it happening sorry.

Maybe they will get Norovirus. You never know.

Use whatever cottage pie recipe my girlfriend's Irish mate used last night - my guts are in bits Doh

by GunsGerms Tue 01 Nov 2016, 3:48 pm

Irish women of a certain generation cant cook for sh1t. They are too entitled for that carry on.

by munkian Tue 01 Nov 2016, 3:53 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Irish women of a certain generation cant cook for sh1t. They are too entitled for that carry on.

He was a farmer - I thought he'd have it spot on. My Mrs CAN cook, however.

by GunsGerms Tue 01 Nov 2016, 3:55 pm

Is she Irish? Well some women tick most the boxes and that's why they are married.

He was probably from Munster. They eat any old swill down there.

by munkian Tue 01 Nov 2016, 4:20 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Is she Irish? Well some women tick most the boxes and that's why they are married.

He was probably from Munster. They eat any old swill down there.

Hah, nah, from near Carlow

by brennomac Tue 01 Nov 2016, 4:32 pm

munkian wrote:Wales have got the closet to them in recent games with 36 22 and NZ have continued to improve since then.

I really don't see it happening sorry.

Bookies offering a 23 point spread - worth a punt I think

by GunsGerms Tue 01 Nov 2016, 4:37 pm

Really? new Zealand won most of their rugby championship games by more than 23 points. Their lowest margin was 19 points. They are way ahead right now and they dont even have a goal kicker.

by Not grey and not a ghost Wed 02 Nov 2016, 1:41 am

Romano's out for NZ. Bereavement leave. Not being replaced so my guess he'll return later on tour. Lock stocks getting low. Could be 2009 again.

by **George Carlin** Wed 02 Nov 2016, 7:38 am

GunsGerms wrote:Is she Irish? Well some women tick most the boxes and that's why they are married.

He was probably from Munster. They eat any old swill down there.

by SecretFly Wed 02 Nov 2016, 9:32 am

That Irish agent that cooked the shyte cottage pie - I think he infiltrated the wrong Welsh family. I think he was told to ingratiate himself with friends of a man called Phill.

What an eejit, but that's the kind of agent you get with budgetary cutbacks.

by munkian Wed 02 Nov 2016, 9:48 am

SecretFly wrote:That Irish agent that cooked the shyte cottage pie - I think he infiltrated the wrong Welsh family. I think he was told to ingratiate himself with friends of a man called Phill.

What an eejit, but that's the kind of agent you get with budgetary cutbacks.

Mission Impossible there, I don't imagine there was available data on 'friends of Phill'

by **rodders** Wed 02 Nov 2016, 9:51 am

Too much talk of 2013 going on in the media which is worrying. There's been a lot of water under the bridge since then.

However the problem for Ireland is NZ have improved whereas Ireland have regressed.

It's really hard to see where this Irish side will threaten NZ.

The standard of the provinces is pretty mediocre, against the backdrop of generally declining club standards in Europe and the pro12, with a lot of key players slipping past their primes - Heaslip, Best, Healy, Sexton, SOB, Ross, Trimble, Bowe, Kearney.. even Payne is slowing up.

There's a few bright sparks coming through to offset this but to me the gap between the two sides is wider than ever and can see the score reflecting that this Autumn.

by munkian Wed 02 Nov 2016, 9:59 am

Yeah, from what I remember Rob K was in full flight, even Dave'Boring' Kearney wasn't mediocre.

by SecretFly Wed 02 Nov 2016, 10:08 am

I'd agree rodders. 2013 is meaningless. The players were up for it for one day and almost did it. So be it, it's three years ago and talking about the game then to inform us about the next one coming is just journalistic clap-trap to fill space.

Irish rugby has gone down since then and the All Blacks have miraculously improved again.

That's not to say that the Irish team might still pull an unlikely win out of the bag if things get really emotionally intense - and we're good at that in really big encounters - but if it's down to cold and calculated technique, Ireland will be second best by a mile.
Thus the recurring problem with Schmidt's Ireland; he's improved the technique but the natural emotional aggression has suffered because of it. A rigidly functional Ireland can do well but not against this lot. Time for raw fire and bluster..... plus a little technique Wink

Maybe Andy Farrell provides hope for a more vicious bloodthirsty attitude that this Ireland really needs to add to its tools now.

by **rodders** Wed 02 Nov 2016, 10:24 am

Bundi-aki will bring some emotional aggression once he completes his 3 year residency...

by SecretFly Wed 02 Nov 2016, 10:49 am

Joe: "Now listen Bundee. This charging around like a wild animal has got to be toned down. It looks like you're just thinking about things on the hoof and that's damned frightening to me. It makes you look like a freak, it doesn't look good on a blackboard and there is no system I can add you to that will allow you to give value.
So quit the mad dog shenanigans and calm the f**k down. Then and only then will you get onto my team."

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:09 am

I do think that some of the young players expected to start will add a bit of dog to the game. Ringrose and Dillane will have something to prove, as will young Carberry off the bench. The likes of Sexton and Stander always seem to play with fire in their bellies and hopefully it will ignite the rest of the team.

by munkian Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:14 am

For the 20 mins that Sexton lasts on the pitch anyway Wink

by **rodders** Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:29 am

Once the ABs break the 50 point barrier that should fire the boys up.

by SecretFly Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:34 am

rodders wrote:Once the ABs break the 50 point barrier that should fire the boys up.

Yeah, we all know how hard that will be. Our lads will need to keep the fire in the engine for the last 10 minutes at 51-50. Can't let them pull off another last minute trick.
Should be a smashin' game for the nerves.

by munkian Wed 02 Nov 2016, 11:39 am

rodders wrote:Once the ABs break the 50 point barrier that should fire the boys up.

by Pot Hale Wed 02 Nov 2016, 2:02 pm

I have looked long and hard at things and come to the conclusion that Ireland will win by about 5 points. New Zealand have had it easy so far this year playing 3-4 teams a few times.

They've never beaten Ireland in Chicago before, so I reckon Ireland have a good chance of taking it out.

I've put €25 on Ireland to win by 5 or less at 25/1. It's going to happen.

by **profitius** Wed 02 Nov 2016, 2:05 pm

An unstoppable force vs a moveable object.

by **rodders** Wed 02 Nov 2016, 2:16 pm

Pot Hale wrote:I have looked long and hard at things and come to the conclusion that Ireland will win by about 5 points.

I thinking you've been looking a bit too long and hard pot, you should probably take 2 or 3 steps back and look again Smile

by the-goon Wed 02 Nov 2016, 2:49 pm

They never gave my lovely horse a chance in song for Ireland 1996, and look what happened there! Believe!

by **rodders** Wed 02 Nov 2016, 3:06 pm

the-goon wrote:They never gave my lovely horse a chance in song for Ireland 1996, and look what happened there! Believe!

Halcyon days!

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 02 Nov 2016, 7:56 pm

Never mind - my original team was fairly accurate.

www.the42.ie/ireland-joe-schmidt-team-new-zealand-2016-3059297-Nov2016/#comments

Rob Kearney? Come on Joe. picard

by aucklandlaurie Thu 03 Nov 2016, 12:07 pm

As an entree to the NZ v Ireland test on Sunday morning there is tomorrow mornings game where the Maori All blacks take on the USA also in Chicago.

Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Elliot Dixon, Damian McKenzie, Rieko Ioane will play for the Maoris to give them game time prior to the next couple of weeks of sudden Rugby.

USA is coached by John Mitchell and the Maori ABs by Colin Cooper and Tana Umaga,.

by **rodders** Thu 03 Nov 2016, 2:49 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
USA is coached by John Mitchell and the Maori ABs by Colin Cooper and Tana Umaga,.

Keep your hands of our players Tana! Run

by the-goon Thu 03 Nov 2016, 4:09 pm

When will they name the team? It's normally lunchtime 2 days before the match.

by marty2086 Thu 03 Nov 2016, 4:50 pm

1. Joe Moody
2. Dane Coles
3. Owen Franks
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
5. Jerome Kaino
6. Liam Squire
7. Sam Cane
8. Kieran Read – captain
9. Aaron Smith
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Julian Savea
12. Ryan Crotty
13. George Moala
14. Waisake Naholo
15. Ben Smith

16. Codie Taylor
17. Ofa Tu’ungafasi
18. Charlie Faumuina
19. Scott Barrett
20. Ardie Savea
21. TJ Perenara
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Malakai Fekitoa

by BamBam Thu 03 Nov 2016, 4:56 pm

Kaino in the second row is an interesting call

I guess Read is more or less a middle jumper anyway, its just the weight in the scrum which might be an issue, not that Kaino is small!

by emack2 Thu 03 Nov 2016, 5:13 pm

How things change the stars of Australia match Todd and Lienart-Brown
dropped.The Goal kicking problem ignored,looks like 2006/7 all over
again.Not knowing the best side especially the mid field combo. SBW
and Ngatai next .
As for Todd so much for loyalty two storming games and not even on
the bench.

by thebandwagonsociety Thu 03 Nov 2016, 6:45 pm

emack2 wrote:How things change the stars of Australia match Todd and Lienart-Brown
dropped.The Goal kicking problem ignored,looks like 2006/7 all over
again.Not knowing the best side especially the mid field combo. SBW
and Ngatai next .
As for Todd so much for loyalty two storming games and not even on
the bench.

Goal kicking won't be much of a problem when they're running in tries for fun.
Taking recent form and that team selection into account, I'm not sure there is a single facet of the game where Ireland would even reach parity in front row, tight five, backrow, backline, scrum, lineout, attacking play, defensive line speed.

Possibly kicking edging towards Ireland

by ChequeredJersey Thu 03 Nov 2016, 6:53 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
the-goon wrote:Kearney is playing for Leinster tomorrow and Ringrose isn't. Make what you will of that. Can't argue with the pack, it picks itself bar the BR where 5 needs to become 3 +1.

As for the backs, since Kearney might not be starting I'm going for this lineup.

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Marshall
Zebo Payne Trimble

Marmion (maybe even McGrath), Jackson, Ringrose

There are exactly 17 players from the squad that aren't lining out for their province at the weekend,2 are injured/suspended so 15 available for selection against N.Z..Coincidentally that 15 would make up a team that looks like this.

15. Payne
14. Trimble
13. Ringrose
12. Henshaw
11. Zebo
10. Sexton
9. Murray

1. McGrath
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Dillane
6. Stander
7. Murphy
8. Heaslip

I would bet a lot of money that barring any late withdrawals that's the team.

Payne at 15 aside (as a good thing), I think that Ringrose is not your best 13 or quite as good as some pundits seem to believe, Henshaw is a better 13 though a perfectly good 12, and that backrow would do better with a number of players at 7 over Murphy. Ok side but I hope it looks a little different

by **profitius** Thu 03 Nov 2016, 7:17 pm

One thing that is in Ireland's favour is the size of the pitch. Apparently its very narrow. I'm not saying Ireland are favourites but it could be worth a few points.

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