5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

by **Crimey** Sun 06 Nov 2016, 3:39 pm

First topic message reminder :

Also, considering mine and pretty much everybody's doubts Mane has been a fantastic signing.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 20 Dec 2016, 12:28 pm

He's cursed as an English player. Reminds me of Joey Cole; people want functionality drilled into him. Saying that, still too many excuses for a lack of progression.

However, if he played for Spurs or Liverpool he'd probably be an England regular

by **Crimey** Tue 20 Dec 2016, 12:31 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:He's cursed as an English player. Reminds me of Joey Cole; people want functionality drilled into him. Saying that, still too many excuses for a lack of progression.

However, if he played for Spurs or Liverpool he'd probably be an England regular

Except he wouldn't get into either of those sides.

He's gone totally backwards as a player. He's got nowhere near the creativity or skill that Joe Cole had. I'm genuinely just not sure what he's good at. He was easily Everton's worst player last night.

They wanted him to be their Steven Gerrard but he's essentially just Leon Osman.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 20 Dec 2016, 12:51 pm

He's got no defined role in a messy Everton midfield. And Wijnaldum? Probably not better. Alli is still questionable for me.

It's harder to play in a midfield like Everton's.

Also think Liverpool are lucky last night and that won't be accepted. Showed much of the weakness and lack of bottle that Arsenal showed, but scaraped a goal. Can't see them winning the league

by **Crimey** Tue 20 Dec 2016, 1:17 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:He's got no defined role in a messy Everton midfield. And Wijnaldum? Probably not better. Alli is still questionable for me.

It's harder to play in a midfield like Everton's.

Also think Liverpool are lucky last night and that won't be accepted. Showed much of the weakness and lack of bottle that Arsenal showed, but scaraped a goal. Can't see them winning the league

I wouldn't even have him on the bench for Liverpool if everybody was fit. He was on the level of Alli in 2014 but he has so clearly regressed as a player. He's 23, not 19. Same age as Pogba.

It was a fortunate win but you can't dominate them all. It was a very scrappy game as derbies almost always are. I was impressed with the defence for the first 20 minutes when Everton gave everything they had. After that Klavan had Lukaku in his pocket and Everton were put under a lot of pressure.

Right now the only team anybody should be able to see winning the league is Chelsea. Saying that, even they only scraped past Crystal Palace. Until they start showing signs of weakness they have to got to be favourites. The chasing pack of Liverpool, Arsenal and Manchester City are about equal right now I'd say. All have obvious qualities, but also glaring weaknesses. The big positive for both Liverpool and Chelsea is obviously the lack of European football. That should change for Arsenal relatively soon though I'd have thought.

by Maxi Sanchez Tue 20 Dec 2016, 1:36 pm

Liverpool lack top class players. Coutinho is probably the only one. Firminho and Mane occasionally do something. The rest are pretty ordinary

by **Crimey** Tue 20 Dec 2016, 1:37 pm

Maxi Sanchez wrote:Liverpool lack top class players. Coutinho is probably the only one. Firminho and Mane occasionally do something. The rest are pretty ordinary

Good job we have a top class manager then to put is in 2nd going into Christmas. Cool

Lallana has probably been Liverpool's best player this season, so surely that'd make him top class? Clyne has a good shot at saying he's the best right back in the Premier League. Joel Matip has looked fantastic, early days obviously, but he has the potential to be top class. Then you've got Sturridge, although obviously his fitness is a massive factor.

by Maxi Sanchez Tue 20 Dec 2016, 1:39 pm

Crimey wrote:
Maxi Sanchez wrote:Liverpool lack top class players. Coutinho is probably the only one. Firminho and Mane occasionally do something. The rest are pretty ordinary

Good job we have a top class manager then to put is in 2nd going into Christmas.

More to do with City and Arsenal balling it up rather than Klopp's genius management skills...

by Maxi Sanchez Tue 20 Dec 2016, 1:40 pm

Adam Lallana...when he's proclaimed as your best player you know the squad is poor.

by **Crimey** Tue 20 Dec 2016, 1:41 pm

Maxi Sanchez wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Maxi Sanchez wrote:Liverpool lack top class players. Coutinho is probably the only one. Firminho and Mane occasionally do something. The rest are pretty ordinary

Good job we have a top class manager then to put is in 2nd going into Christmas.
More to do with City and Arsenal balling it up rather than Klopp's genius management skills...

What about the other 16 sides?

When relative to the rest of the Premier League, Liverpool have a good squad. What says about the quality of the Premier League is another question entirely.

by **Crimey** Tue 20 Dec 2016, 1:41 pm

Maxi Sanchez wrote:Adam Lallana...when he's proclaimed as your best player you know the squad is poor.

When you dismiss Lallana's quality you know that you haven't been paying attention to football for a while...

by Maxi Sanchez Tue 20 Dec 2016, 1:44 pm

Crimey wrote:
Maxi Sanchez wrote:Adam Lallana...when he's proclaimed as your best player you know the squad is poor.

When you dismiss Lallana's quality you know that you haven't been paying attention to football for a while...

Lallana is terrible. A typical klopp player. Run around like a headless chicken for 90mins. Same as he did at Dortmund...

by **Crimey** Tue 20 Dec 2016, 1:59 pm

Maxi Sanchez wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Maxi Sanchez wrote:Adam Lallana...when he's proclaimed as your best player you know the squad is poor.

When you dismiss Lallana's quality you know that you haven't been paying attention to football for a while...
Lallana is terrible. A typical klopp player. Run around like a headless chicken for 90mins. Same as he did at Dortmund...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1679335/

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 20 Dec 2016, 2:02 pm

Sorry but clyne is nowhere near the best RB in the league - isn't even the best English RB

Lallana has been a lot better this season - as has Firminho

by **Crimey** Tue 20 Dec 2016, 2:05 pm

I'd say Bellerin is the best and then Walker and Clyne are around equal, it depends what you want in the side. Clyne is a lot more solid defensively but more limited going forward whereas Walker is the opposite. I wouldn't swap Clyne for Walker but I can understand why others might.

I don't know he's not "nowhere near" right back is one of the weakest positions in the Premier League I think with no real standout candidates.

by Born Slippy Tue 20 Dec 2016, 2:08 pm

Liverpool got a bit of luck with the goal but were obviously the far superior side. Did Everton have a chance in the second half? Well-deserved and impressive win.

Behind Chelsea, its 3 from 5 for the CL spots. I cant see City failing to make it, so that leaves two places for Liverpool, United, Spurs and Arsenal. Liverpool probably have the weakest squad of those teams, so they can't afford to lose momentum.

Barkley was awful last night but he definitely wasn't the worst player on the pitch. That Valencia chap produced one of the worst displays of football I can recall. He seemed to give the ball away every time he touched it.

by GSC Thu 22 Dec 2016, 3:04 pm

Pardew sacked, paging Big Sam

by **Crimey** Thu 22 Dec 2016, 3:13 pm

They've been really poor but Pardew usually finds a way out of a tricky situation and was a popular player there, so I'm surprised they've sacked him.

My only conclusion is they've put the feelers out and better managers have shown an interest. Big Sam is the obvious choice. He'll love Benteke.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 22 Dec 2016, 3:16 pm

Think they've only won 6 league games in 2016

Not really a surprise

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu 22 Dec 2016, 4:53 pm

Start well, fade considerably - the Pardew tale. He'll be back and be loved somewhere for 6 months to a year.

by westisbest Thu 22 Dec 2016, 6:04 pm

Is big Sam the man for Palace?
Gary Rowett is available.

Not had Orem experience, but has done well so far.

by GSC Thu 22 Dec 2016, 6:15 pm

Feels way too early still, but such is the knee jerk way of modern football.

by Holymiky Thu 22 Dec 2016, 7:23 pm

Sacking Pardew Rolling Eyes

by Atila Thu 22 Dec 2016, 7:33 pm

Fair enough, the results this year haven't been great, but who is there better to replace him?

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu 22 Dec 2016, 8:06 pm

Too early? He got away with basically being atrocious the whole year.

by Born Slippy Fri 23 Dec 2016, 11:13 am

I always find the reaction of football fans to managers a bit odd. As a neutral, it seems to me that West Ham fans should regard Pardew as probably their best manager for 30 years. He got them promoted back to the premier league in his first full season. He then massively exceeded all expectations in finishing 9th (a position it took a decade to be exceeded) and reached their only FA Cup final for now nearly 40 years (and was very unlucky to lose).

The following season, he suffered the misfortune of losing his star striker before the season started and Tevez, understandably, took time to acclimatise. Had he been given more time, I suspect he would have turned that season around and taken West Ham onwards.

The dislike he gets from Newcastle fans is even more bizarre. These are their league positions under Pardew (having been in the Championship the previous season):

10/11 - 12th
11/12 - 5th
12/13 - 16th
13/14 - 10th
14/15 - 9th (left in Dec)

These are their positions after he left:

14/15 - 15th (relegation form after his departure)
15/16 - 18th (relegated)

Even at Palace, he's taken them to their highest league finish in 25 years and only second cup final in their history. Surely he should have been given more time?

by Guest Fri 23 Dec 2016, 2:29 pm

He's probably peaked as a manager. 6 wins in a calendar year is embarrassing.

Reaching an FA Cup final means zip unless you actually win the damn thing.

Right call. Fat Sam will at least keep em up.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Fri 23 Dec 2016, 6:33 pm

The thing with that analysis is that it doesn't really hold any value of knowing what was going on beyond words written down.

Nor are you looking at the trend. Look at those starts, look at the declines.

With West Ham he failed to get promoted, then finished 6th. Had a very good year then (and still with some of the best striking options we ever had) turned the team into an atrocious mess, full of disgusting attitude that was further perpetuated by his own flash-Dan behaviour.

by Jermaine2015 Tue 27 Dec 2016, 5:53 pm

When a championship player like Lallana is getting goals for fun you know your is relying plainly on luck

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 27 Dec 2016, 6:27 pm

Liverpool advocating drunk driving by playing Firminho I see

Guess we shouldn't expect anything different from the club you supported racism a few years back

by westisbest Tue 27 Dec 2016, 7:32 pm

Bob Bradley sacked.
What a waste of an appointment.

by Atila Tue 27 Dec 2016, 8:13 pm

Bradley should get a good payoff. I read that he had a 3 year contract with the Swans.

by GSC Tue 27 Dec 2016, 10:19 pm

Should take a hard look at their squad before the manager.

I'd struggle to name their 2nd best player after Sigurdsson

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 27 Dec 2016, 11:23 pm

I do hope we sign him when they get relegated and we sell Payet.

Their recruitment this summer was appalling, and now I can't see why any manager with experience and Premier League reputation would take them on. Actually, there's one (outside taking the money from being sacked) - a transfer budget. But they look the worst side in the league.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 28 Dec 2016, 7:18 am

Their squad is somehow worse than when they were promoted under Rodgers originally

by GSC Wed 28 Dec 2016, 3:30 pm

It's a warning to Southampton as to the risks of their approach. Don't recruit well to replace and you have no building blocks. Need to buy PL experience in Jan and that will come at a premium.

Hiring Rowett would be an acceptance that they'll be playing Championship football next year

by GSC Wed 28 Dec 2016, 9:02 pm

Harry Kane with a lovely Ramos there.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu 29 Dec 2016, 1:14 am

GSC wrote:It's a warning to Southampton as to the risks of their approach. Don't recruit well to replace and you have no building blocks. Need to buy PL experience in Jan and that will come at a premium.

Hiring Rowett would be an acceptance that they'll be playing Championship football next year

Think Rowett would be my choice, although as far as I understand it Pardew has been offered the job. Rowett would be smart; he's shown himself to be one of the brighter young British managers and will he coveted by many just below Swansea. Hes arguably the best name on their likely list, especially as Coleman and Giggs are two front runners.

Disagree on the Southampton point too. Don't see any similarities, and would put Southampton down as the example model for every club outside the top 6.

by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 29 Dec 2016, 1:36 pm

Don't see anything in Harry Kane's hype. Does it against the little teams. Goes missing in the big matches. Was totally out of his depth in the champions league

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu 29 Dec 2016, 1:40 pm

His record in London derbies is pretty fantastic

by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 29 Dec 2016, 1:52 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:His record in London derbies is pretty fantastic

Shame that scoring only in London matches doesn't win you the championship...

by Hammersmith harrier Thu 29 Dec 2016, 5:51 pm

Not too sure of the actual statistics but Kane seems to have a pretty decent scoring record against the better teams.

by Born Slippy Thu 29 Dec 2016, 10:18 pm

Kane has something like 8 goals in 8 games against Chelsea/Arsenal. He terrorised Chelsea in their last title winning season - made Terrry look like a complete novice in the 5-3 win. I think his record against Liverpool and City is decent as well. He's a top quality striker - you don't score 20+ goals in successive seasons in the Premier League before your 23rd birthday if you aren't special.

by GSC Thu 29 Dec 2016, 11:03 pm

Kane biggest issue is Spurs inability to find regular goals from midfield or a decent reserves striker. Last season he looked burnt out well before reporting for a tournament on top of that.

by GSC Fri 30 Dec 2016, 9:55 am

John Percy (who's usually reliable) says Clement is Swanseas #1 choice and will interview them today.

by GSC Fri 30 Dec 2016, 9:58 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
GSC wrote:It's a warning to Southampton as to the risks of their approach. Don't recruit well to replace and you have no building blocks. Need to buy PL experience in Jan and that will come at a premium.

Hiring Rowett would be an acceptance that they'll be playing Championship football next year

Think Rowett would be my choice, although as far as I understand it Pardew has been offered the job. Rowett would be smart; he's shown himself to be one of the brighter young British managers and will he coveted by many just below Swansea. Hes arguably the best name on their likely list, especially as Coleman and Giggs are two front runners.

Disagree on the Southampton point too. Don't see any similarities, and would put Southampton down as the example model for every club outside the top 6.

I agree on Rowett but Swansea badly need an Allardyce type if they're to avoid the drop. Putting a relatively young manager in charge of such a cack squad is playing with fire.

The point is more that strategy doesn't leave much margin for error

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Fri 30 Dec 2016, 11:17 am

Depends on success rate. It doesn't when you haven't really ever had any success, but Southampton have a base and also willingness to spend. And a really good management setup behind the front office of manager.

Ain't many Allardyce and Pulis types around. And they might not want to sell their soul, as it were. You look at their possible list and the only escape artist in there is Redknapp - you can see why they'd shy away from that.

by GSC Fri 30 Dec 2016, 11:27 am

Wasn't so long ago that people thought Swansea had a really good setup also. All it takes is a couple of bad windows which can happen to anyone.

Thats the conundrum they have, but turning this squad over to an inexperienced manager could be a disaster. The type of disaster that can linger into the start of your Championship campaign. Sticking to a moral high ground is great, but doesn't tend to get much traction when you're in Rotherham on a Tuesday night.

I would've tried to get Brenda back to be honest. Difficult maybe, but his current job is a deadender.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Fri 30 Dec 2016, 11:37 am

They liked their ideal, and I think you can see when the ideal died with new owners so did their success. Interesting correlation of mindsets and the blurred vision that can kill stability.

Otherwise, they're middling premier league clubs: they're all open to struggle. I don't know what else you suggest of them, other than having a lot of money so not being open to players being bought?

by GSC Fri 30 Dec 2016, 1:12 pm

I'm more observing the risks of it rather than criticising.

Swanseas struggles started long before the new owners though, been sliding for a while.

by Jermaine2015 Fri 30 Dec 2016, 3:00 pm

Born Slippy wrote:Kane has something like 8 goals in 8 games against Chelsea/Arsenal. He terrorised Chelsea in their last title winning season - made Terrry look like a complete novice in the 5-3 win. I think his record against Liverpool and City is decent as well. He's a top quality striker - you don't score 20+ goals in successive seasons in the Premier League before your 23rd birthday if you aren't special.

Aided by the generally pathetic defending on display in the premier league.

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