5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

[Crimey]

First topic message reminder :

Also, considering mine and pretty much everybody's doubts Mane has been a fantastic signing.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

He was being criticised before. I mean, how did you miss that?!

And Neville's criticisms have been spot on. You are smart enough to see the context and tone of that reply, but instead you're being blank to it and reading the words as just words.

[Crimey]

We don't have the tone though, other than the testimony of the interviewer who also says it has been blown out of proportion.

I also haven't seen any criticism. There were some comments when he had the one bad pass against United but he's had so little to test him over his first 8 games I can't think what on earth he could possibly have been criticised for.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

See, thats your problem. You do have tone with written word, especially reported speech. Words are chosen, even in the blink of an eye, very specifically. The little insult about management etc, then the defensive comment about him being very critical, both of those betray meaning. That is why people enjoy things like books.

Id seen his authority on crosses (although doesnt bother me too much early doors) and starting positions frequently criticised.

[Scott is Back]

See, thats your problem. You do have tone with written word, especially reported speech. Words are chosen, even in the blink of an eye, very specifically. The little insult about management etc, then the defensive comment about him being very critical, both of those betray meaning. That is why people enjoy things like books.

Id seen his authority on crosses (although doesnt bother me too much early doors) and starting positions frequently criticised.

I agree with the above in terms of his early criticism, i remember specifically before the united game there was talk about how he would cope with Utd height given his lack of authority on crosses. The criticism over the last couple have weeks have built on top of that, not just out of the blue.

[Scott is Back]

See, thats your problem. You do have tone with written word, especially reported speech. Words are chosen, even in the blink of an eye, very specifically. The little insult about management etc, then the defensive comment about him being very critical, both of those betray meaning. That is why people enjoy things like books.

Id seen his authority on crosses (although doesnt bother me too much early doors) and starting positions frequently criticised.

For me the thing is, if someone like Neville is being critical, you stop and listen, he has played the game at the top level for years, he has experience. As much as the scousers hate him, he knows his stuff. Its arrogant to think you can dismiss his comments cos he was a failed manager, at the minute Karius is looking like a failed keeper, something he is paid well to do!

Regardless of who you support, ex-players from the top level know better than any of us ever will, be it Neville, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, if these guys are making comments, its usually off the back of some knowledge. I think Phil Neville was right in that he should shut up and do his job, not getting distracted by the circus around him, i think Klopp needs to pipe down too, cos him biting will only add fuel to the fire, and put Karius in the spotlight more.

Lets me honest, everyone is going to be watching for mistakes tonight, and that is down to himself, and Klopp.

[lfc91]

See, thats your problem. You do have tone with written word, especially reported speech. Words are chosen, even in the blink of an eye, very specifically. The little insult about management etc, then the defensive comment about him being very critical, both of those betray meaning. That is why people enjoy things like books.

Id seen his authority on crosses (although doesnt bother me too much early doors) and starting positions frequently criticised.

For me the thing is, if someone like Neville is being critical, you stop and listen, he has played the game at the top level for years, he has experience. As much as the scousers hate him, he knows his stuff. Its arrogant to think you can dismiss his comments cos he was a failed manager, at the minute Karius is looking like a failed keeper, something he is paid well to do!

Regardless of who you support, ex-players from the top level know better than any of us ever will, be it Neville, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, if these guys are making comments, its usually off the back of some knowledge. I think Phil Neville was right in that he should shut up and do his job, not getting distracted by the circus around him, i think Klopp needs to pipe down too, cos him biting will only add fuel to the fire, and put Karius in the spotlight more.

Lets me honest, everyone is going to be watching for mistakes tonight, and that is down to himself, and Klopp.

Everyone would have been watching for mistakes with or without the comments from Karius/Klopp. That has been a recurring theme for Liverpool goalkeepers the past couple of seasons because in truth, they just haven't been very good.

Seems like it is a vicious circle as well with certain elements (such as command of the box). Mignolet/Karious get a reputation of being poor from free kicks/corners, teams target that specifically, they in turn face much more of those than normal, they make more mistakes than normal etc etc.

[Hero]

I recollect when Utd played Liverpool a few years ago when De Gea was already under scrutiny by the media for his lack of presence at set pieces and his weedy frame. Liverpool certainly looked to capitalize upon that, every corner they had a couple of players figuratively on top of him.

[GSC]

Opponents target your weakness?

What is this madness.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I think fuelling the fire doesn't help

[Crimey]

I'd much rather players and managers were more interesting and honest in interviews. Ideally journalists wouldn't ask questions like that which are designed to generate controversy, but at the very least I prefer it when they're answered honestly rather than the usual generic crap that footballers and managers give.

Let's not pretend either that Gary Neville's standing as a pundit hasn't been harmed by his managerial stint. Fair play to him giving it a go, but it does make you question how good he is at judging players.

[Guest82]

I'd much rather players and managers were more interesting and honest in interviews. Ideally journalists wouldn't ask questions like that which are designed to generate controversy, but at the very least I prefer it when they're answered honestly rather than the usual generic crap that footballers and managers give.

Let's not pretend either that Gary Neville's standing as a pundit hasn't been harmed by his managerial stint. Fair play to him giving it a go, but it does make you question how good he is at judging players.

There is a lot more to managing than judging players. If he was a failed scout, Klopps comments would be more telling.

He may be an excellent judge of a player, but poor tactically or poor man management skills etc.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'm not sure Valencia are the team to judge someone over either.

Interesting as they wanna be, but they can't then moan if they end up getting more criticism. Klopp has only intensified the pressure.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I'd much rather players and managers were more interesting and honest in interviews. Ideally journalists wouldn't ask questions like that which are designed to generate controversy, but at the very least I prefer it when they're answered honestly rather than the usual generic crap that footballers and managers give.

Let's not pretend either that Gary Neville's standing as a pundit hasn't been harmed by his managerial stint. Fair play to him giving it a go, but it does make you question how good he is at judging players.

Makes me question how he coaches players. He wasn't involved in judging/scouting players

[compelling and rich]

for me the biggest thing to managing is psychology, motivating your players and getting the best out of them. only have to look at what fergie did to see that even a average squad can still do really well.

its why lots of ex footballers dont do well in managing. they can be good judges of players, can have great tactical mind from playing but if you cant understand how to motivate the players its useless. majority of the best managers in recent times weren't very good players

[Crimey]

Of course a part of a manager's job is to judge players, he has to judge them week to week to decide whether to play them or not. It's one of the biggest parts of the job. 

There will now be a question mark against Gary Neville's judgement because of that spell at Valencia and he's got to accept that. Just as Loris Karius and Jurgen Klopp have to accept that players are going to receive criticism when they make mistakes. I don't think either side has handled it in a mature way.

I'm not sure Klopp was trying to decrease pressure, just being honest and saying that neither he or Karius care what the Neville's have to say. It's not like they were talking about this just for the fun, they were asked questions about it and they answered with how they felt. Could Klopp have handled it differently? Of course. Would handling it differently necessarily have been better? Who knows, time will tell. Klopp obviously showed a lot of confidence in Karius by saying he doesn't care what the Neville's have to say about him, maybe that will mean more to Karius than the extra pressure that may bring.

[Crimey]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2268117/Sir-Alex-Ferguson-hits-David-Gea-critics--does-mean-Gary-Neville.html

[GSC]

Karius and Klopp were stupid in the extreme. criticism from outside is part and parcel of being a modem footballer.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

As for character, being argumentative isn't being a character

[Crimey]

Karius has been dropped tonught anyway. At least Mignolet has an opportunity to remind everybody how awful he is.

I have no problem with players and mannagers questioning pundits. Considering how much influence they have on how fan's opinions on players, it would be good to put them under scrutiny.

[GSC]

You have no problem because you're trying to defend Liverpool players/coaches.

Questioning a pundits qualifications only makes you look mentally fragile.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Klopp making sly digs like that was beneath him

[Crimey]

Telling players and managers not to question pundits opinions is mentally fragile.

[GSC]

No telling them to actually bother responding to it is stupid.

Having a thick skin is required for any footballer.

[Crimey]

Lest we forget that Jamie Carragher one of the pundits telling Karius to shut up, once rang up TalkSport as a player to have a go at the pundits on there. Never mind answering a question slightly passively-aggressively.

The pundits place in the football world is incredibly overstated. Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher, the lot, they're not pointing out incredibly subtle things or even using their playing experience a great deal. They're both good at providing a more in depth look in a digestible way. Great TV presenters but that's it.

It's also ironic that Neville and Carragher two of the more controversial and outspoken as players are so hurt when players, managers, journalists AND other pundits question them.

[GSC]

How is "Neville failed at management he can't criticise me" vaguely interesting in any way?

Any other club and you probably wouldn't have posted

[Crimey]

It's more interesting than saying nothing.

[compelling and rich]

slowest united team in history

[Jermaine2015]

Ilkay Gundogan out for 'several months' with knee ligaments injury. Seems like his career is going how Sebastian Deisler's ended up

[Fernando]

So down to Yaya,Fernandinho & Fernando as central midfielders that'll be fun for Pep.

[Scott is Back]

slowest united team in history

Slowed down when Rooney comes in, was a lot more fast paced attack when Mhiki was playing

[Crimey]

Good win yesterday, was worried Middlesbrough would be a bit of a banana peel side, but a really efficient win. Barely troubled in defence and three nicely worked goals. Origi is a real talent, still raw but he's really improved over the last year and I feel confident each game that he'll either get a goal or definitely be heavily involved in the creation.

Lallana has finally added goals to his game, after all the comments over the years it's great to see that the final product has come through. He's definitely pushing Coutinho as the best Liverpool right now. The team look completely different when he's not involved. 

Firmino has been poor for a while now, he's struggled out wide and has been really ineffective recently.

[Scott is Back]

Good win yesterday, was worried Middlesbrough would be a bit of a banana peel side, but a really efficient win. Barely troubled in defence and three nicely worked goals. Origi is a real talent, still raw but he's really improved over the last year and I feel confident each game that he'll either get a goal or definitely be heavily involved in the creation.

Lallana has finally added goals to his game, after all the comments over the years it's great to see that the final product has come through. He's definitely pushing Coutinho as the best Liverpool right now. The team look completely different when he's not involved. 

Firmino has been poor for a while now, he's struggled out wide and has been really ineffective recently.

Its since he went to Ross Gellers dentist....

[Crimey]

My girlfriend thought it was gum the other day. They do look ridiculous.

[lfc91]

From the highlights the Liverpool match looked quite close in the first half. Mignolet had to make a good stop at the front post. Second half was all us though with a fair result in the end, the second goal in particular was fantastic.

Only Arsenal from the Top 6 losing any ground this round of fixtures.

[Nico the gman]

From the highlights the Liverpool match looked quite close in the first half. Mignolet had to make a good stop at the front post. Second half was all us though with a fair result in the end, the second goal in particular was fantastic.

Only Arsenal from the Top 6 losing any ground this round of fixtures.

Liverpool played us off the field 2nd half, we couldn't get the ball, in fact we never had a shot on target 2nd half, mind that's not surprising when only Oldham have scored less goals than us in all 4 divisions.

[Guest]

11 on the bounce for Chelsea. Fantastic achievement.

And to think there was speculation early on about Conte's future. Can't really look beyond them, myself.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Got to be said Conte knows how to drill a five man defence.

[Guest]

I love seeing it, Hammer. I miss the days of solid backlines and grinding wins.

[Hammersmith harrier]

The best teams have a solid defence, it's the main reason why I think football has gone backwards in the past ten years and makes good players look better than they are.

[Guest]

I agree, 100 %

[Hammersmith harrier]

When we (United) were dominant between 2006-2013 we had a rock solid defence that allowed the attacking players the freedom to perform, wasn't always entertaining but we knew more often than not that one goal would be enough.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Just seen the Vardy challenge and don't understand why there's any debate over that being a red, two feet in the air and the fact Diouf got out the way doesn't mean a thing.

[Guest]

Jake Humphrey is definitely Adrian Chiles level of cringe. Awful presenter.

[nathan]

Just seen the Vardy challenge and don't understand why there's any debate over that being a red, two feet in the air and the fact Diouf got out the way doesn't mean a thing.

I think it's because Johnson push him, how much of that caused him to lose balance? That's what the argument it about. For me, it's a yellow all day long, no way as bad as Rojo's

[westisbest]

https://www.facebook.com/bewarmers/videos/1177931558983950/

[Born Slippy]

I don't see Leicester getting the decision overturned, but I think the Vardy one was just about a yellow to me. He got knocked off balance as he was about to go for the tackle and got the ball with one foot just about being in front of the other.

The Barkley one however was an awful challenge. As clear as red as could be.

[Crimey]

Good win last night, Everton blew their load in the first 20 minutes and then resorted to fouling for the rest of the game. Makes a big difference when we can use quality of the bench, squad depth has been really tested recently.

[Scott is Back]

What happened to Ross Barkley, absolute shocking player!

[Crimey]

What happened to Ross Barkley, absolute shocking player!

Completely agree, he's gone completely backwards. What is he good at?

[Scott is Back]

What happened to Ross Barkley, absolute shocking player!

Completely agree, he's gone completely backwards. What is he good at?

Looking like he is always about to sneeze, a la Gabby Agbonlahor

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