5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

[Crimey]

First topic message reminder :

Also, considering mine and pretty much everybody's doubts Mane has been a fantastic signing.

[Crimey]

The fourth official was joking around with him straight afterwards, Klopp has said he went over to apologise and the fourth official said "I like your passion."

[Scott is Back]

The fourth official was joking around with him straight afterwards, Klopp has said he went over to apologise and the fourth official said "I like your passion."

Irrelevant - you cant act in that manner, just cause he is passionate doesnt give him permission to be a d!ck!

The guy is quickly proving to be a moron, and his brash personality is a way of masking his tactical inadequacies!

[Crimey]

The fourth official was joking around with him straight afterwards, Klopp has said he went over to apologise and the fourth official said "I like your passion."

Irrelevant - you cant act in that manner, just cause he is passionate doesnt give him permission to be a d!ck!

The guy is quickly proving to be a moron, and his brash personality is a way of masking his tactical inadequacies!

I'm just explaining that the fourth official had no problem with it. Don't overreact. He literally said "nobody can beat us" and the fourth official had absolutely no problem with it. People on here are blowing it well out of proportion. Players act and say worse multiple times a game, last week Arsene Wenger actually pushed the fourth official and I didn't say anybody moaning about that on here. 

Do you honestly believe that? I feel like people are forgetting how poor Liverpool have been since 2010 (bar one freak Suarez inspired season) - even with the recent three losses this has been the second best performing season this decade! Not to mention got us to two finals last year. I feel like the early season form has completely changed people's expectations, if this was offered at the start of the season, most Liverpool fans would take it and most other fans wouldn't have predicted a top four finish for Liverpool this year. 

This with a squad that I've often seen on here labelled as poor and lacking quality, so either Klopp is a good manager getting the most out of a limited squad or people think the squad is good and Klopp is just coasting.

[Scott is Back]

The fourth official was joking around with him straight afterwards, Klopp has said he went over to apologise and the fourth official said "I like your passion."

Irrelevant - you cant act in that manner, just cause he is passionate doesnt give him permission to be a d!ck!

The guy is quickly proving to be a moron, and his brash personality is a way of masking his tactical inadequacies!

I'm just explaining that the fourth official had no problem with it. Don't overreact. He literally said "nobody can beat us" and the fourth official had absolutely no problem with it. People on here are blowing it well out of proportion. Players act and say worse multiple times a game, last week Arsene Wenger actually pushed the fourth official and I didn't say anybody moaning about that on here. 

Do you honestly believe that? I feel like people are forgetting how poor Liverpool have been since 2010 (bar one freak Suarez inspired season) - even with the recent three losses this has been the second best performing season this decade! Not to mention got us to two finals last year. I feel like the early season form has completely changed people's expectations, if this was offered at the start of the season, most Liverpool fans would take it and most other fans wouldn't have predicted a top four finish for Liverpool this year. 

This with a squad that I've often seen on here labelled as poor and lacking quality, so either Klopp is a good manager getting the most out of a limited squad or people think the squad is good and Klopp is just coasting.

Its not what he said, its the manner in which he said it, he is supposed to be setting an example as the manager of one of the biggest teams in the world, and he could tell the linesman he wants to tickle his trumpet for all i care, but when you are seen to be screaming in someones face, its out of order! The fact he screamed "nobody can beat us" shows how much of a bell he is becoming, they lost to Wolves literally days ago! Kn0b.

Im not saying what he has done is better or worse than Arsene Wenger, what he did was worse, but he is a miserable sh1te, therefore it doesnt stand out as much, but the punishment should match the crime. Klopp is a lovely guy when Liverpool are winning, but by god he is an unlikeable chap when they are losing! I dont doubt his passion, but that passion needs to displayed in the correct manner.

As for how well he is doing, im not sure, he is not the amazing manager he was cracked up to be, but neither is he a poor manager, i dont think he has a plan b, but thats his problem. i just think the more you are in the press for stupid reasons ie. Karius/GNev comments, being a bad loser, last night, the more you will get pulled up when you fall short.

[Crimey]

I hate this culture of being offended by everything, he didn't do it aggressively, the linesman is smiling the entire time and they had no problem afterwards. I don't see what the issue is? 

The "nobody can beat us" is obviously tongue in cheek. 

https://imgur.com/a/DDlpj

Even the typical over zealous media isn't making a big deal out of it and the only real place I've seen Klopp be called a bad loser is on here.

[Scott is Back]

I hate this culture of being offended by everything, he didn't do it aggressively, the linesman is smiling the entire time and they had no problem afterwards. I don't see what the issue is? 

The "nobody can beat us" is obviously tongue in cheek. 

https://imgur.com/a/DDlpj

Its not about being offended, im not offended, who's offended?

The issue is, you have a world of kids, liverpool fans, who see this, and will think its fine to abuse the officials. Have you been to a grassroots match lately, my son plays in under-9's, and the way the ref's are treated is disgraceful, by some players, but parents, and managers. Im not saying Klopp is solely to blame, nor is Wenger, or Mourinho, but they guys have the media attention at the top of the game, and this kind of stuff filters down, that doesnt make it offensive, but it does make it wrong.

Would you be thrilled to see your kids screaming in the ref's face like this? I wouldnt.

[Crimey]

Look at the gif again, the 4th official is smiling! Klopp apologised immediately afterwards and he said that he liked it, it's a complete non-story.

[Scott is Back]

Look at the gif again, the 4th official is smiling! Klopp apologised immediately afterwards and he said that he liked it, it's a complete non-story.

That makes it fine then

[Crimey]

Look at the gif again, the 4th official is smiling! Klopp apologised immediately afterwards and he said that he liked it, it's a complete non-story.

That makes it fine then

Well it does, context is incredibly important.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

If it was Jose everyone would be up in arms

[Scott is Back]

Look at the gif again, the 4th official is smiling! Klopp apologised immediately afterwards and he said that he liked it, it's a complete non-story.

That makes it fine then

Well it does, context is incredibly important.

Not really - just cos the 4th official happened find his comments that nobody could beat them (to be fair, i would have laughed at that!) funny, or caused a smile has eradicated any blame of Klopp's part. It would only have taken a different official to stand there stony-faced, and this would have taken another path.

I think the fact its Klopp is giving you a blinkered perspective, so we may aswell agree to disagree on this one.

[Crimey]

Look at the gif again, the 4th official is smiling! Klopp apologised immediately afterwards and he said that he liked it, it's a complete non-story.

That makes it fine then

Well it does, context is incredibly important.

Not really - just cos the 4th official happened find his comments that nobody could beat them (to be fair, i would have laughed at that!) funny, or caused a smile has eradicated any blame of Klopp's part. It would only have taken a different official to stand there stony-faced, and this would have taken another path.

I think the fact its Klopp is giving you a blinkered perspective, so we may aswell agree to disagree on this one.

Just watch it again, the fourth official is smiling before Klopp turns to him, after it and Klopp isn't even doing anything aggressive. It's a complete non-story. If it was Mourinho, it'd be a non-story. The fact that the normally over-reactive media is barely reporting it and every story I can find is admitting that there's nothing to escalate for me makes it weird that it's such a big deal to you. It doesn't matter who the manager is, the only reason to get bothered by this is if you want to be bothered by it. It's a complete non-starter.

[Hammersmith harrier]

It is humorous the lengths you'll go to defend everything to do with Liverpool; Klopp deserves a ban and will probably receive one.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Humorous seeing people justifying offence caused by Klopp. I am the first to criticise Liverpool, but whilst I don't see him as the messiah, neither is he a naughty boy. He's got some good ideas, and his style has more flexibility than Pep's, whilst his honesty is sometimes refreshing, and he's not the only one to be overzealous in press conferences to protect his team. 

Sometimes he's annoying, but he's mostly honest so it's acceptable. He probably needs to be careful on the sidelines but he didn't assault the guy.

[Crimey]

I'd be extremely shocked if he was banned.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

0-4

[GSC]

0-4

You're such a fanboy

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I was looking for improvement

[GSC]

There have been better debuts than Fonte

[Crimey]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3mKLeEWQAEMSLb.jpg:large

Puts Klopp's management into perspective.

[GSC]

Good point for Hull. Look useful under Silva, Niasse looks decent.

[GSC]

Everyone below Bournemouth is right in the relegation scrap

[GSC]

Lost in the Klopp "drama" is Mourinho continuing to be a grade a twunk

[Fernando]

Callum Wilson out for 6 months again with a re-occurrence of his knee injury

[Guest]

to Frank Lampard.

A Premier League GOAT.

[88Chris05]

Cards on the table; of all Premier League clubs, Chelsea have probably been the one I've disliked more than any other over the years. Nevertheless, I was always an admirer of Lampard the player and minded a hell of a lot less when it was him, rather than a clown such as Drogba or a scum bucket such as Terry, who made the difference for them whenever they won a trophy or a particularly vital match during his thirteen years there.

Yes, he played in some outstanding sides and alongside some world-class players. However, lots of attacking midfielders who are considered all-time greats of the game could say that, but they still haven't managed anywhere near the amount of goals Lampard bagged throughout his career. In that respect, he was a phenomenon. Had a hell of a strike on him and timed his runs in to the box superbly. Also blessed with a wonderful engine and fitness - 164 consecutive league matches without injury says it all.

I think in England we tended to overstate just how golden the 'Golden Generation' of circa 2001 - 2007 was, but it's worth remembering that in that time frame Lampard was one of the very few who actually left an international tournament having enhanced his reputation and really stood out with his performances in Euro 2004. Like everyone else, I found it infuriating to see him and Gerrard fail to gel in to the awesome partnership we all hoped for, but Sven's obsession with 4-4-2, replicated by McClaren, really didn't help in that regard. Lampard and Gerrard were just a bit too similar to be paired as the only two guys in the middle of the park. Had England used a midfield three a bit more often, with those two not having to worry about who was doing what job in regards to defensive shielding etc, they might have flourished a little more in their three lions shirts. I think both of them (along with Scholes) had a realistic claim to world-class status, but tactical rigidity on the part of their international managers, combined with a curious epidemic propensity for failure and underachievement in our national team which I still can't really put my finger on, stymied them somewhat.

Might regret this, as  some Chelsea, Liverpool and Man U fans have repeatedly shown they can't have a grown-up discussion about it, but it's interesting to consider how he fares in terms of who people think was the best player of the three. Lampard probably had the least (for want of a better phrase!) 'natural talent'; Gerrard had more pace, both Gerrard and Scholes had a better and wider range of passing and both of them were better in the air (Scholes' small stature belies how good he was in that area). Yet Lampard arguably had the best international career of any of them, and harnessed the gifts he did have to become perhaps the most consistent of the three, even if the other two (Gerrard in particular) were capable of more eye-popping peaks now and then.

Anyway, an outstanding player and a brilliant career. Congratulations to him and good luck in retirement.

[GSC]

Scholes was a great no doubt but give me Lampard any day.

[guildfordbat]

Frank Lampard was also good enough to write a dedication to my godson as I asked when he signed his autobiography. Much to the annoyance of the female stormtroopers employed by Smith's at their Holborn store about a decade ago! Mind you, that was nothing compared to the looks they gave me when Jimmy Greaves did the same a year earlier and continued to chat unprompted for a good five minutes!

Anyway, as Freeky says, Lampard was certainly a Premier League GOAT. A fine appreciation by Chris as well. Disappointing that the talents we had available in the early years of this century never properly gelled at national level. Largely a personal thing but I too would place Lampard at the top of those England players from that time. Haven't checked stats but surely a fantastic scoring record and certainly an engine that never seemed to cruise. So often involved but- unlike Gerrard and Scholes, my perception anyway - rarely trying to overdo it or losing composure even when chasing a game.

[Hammersmith harrier]

This highlights exactly why the England national team has achieved bugger all in recent memory, Lampard was a good goal scoring midfielder but had absolutely no control of a midfield. It really is laughable to suggest he's better than Scholes.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Well known that I hate the guy. 

Cracking player though. Couldn't have him above Gerrard and definitely not Scholes, but arguably the real problem with English football is that people feel it's 2 of 3. (Arguably the problem being our most talented 5 midfielders of that period all wanted to be involved centrally as Cole and Beckham weren't real wide men).

A wonderful player who I'm happy to see little of these days. Doubt I'll have as an irrational hate of a footballer ever again!

[Afro]

Whilst Lampard is one of the best goal scoring midfielders of his generation, I put him on a level below Gerrard and Scholes.

As an Everton fan I don't praise Liverpool or
united players lightly, but their all round game surpassed Lampards.

[compelling and rich]

lampard had the great nack of scoring goals but really couldnt control a midfield like either scholes or gerrard. scholes being by far the best of three at it. lampard was a attacking mid more than anything. you really couldnt play him in a two man midfield, so not sure why we see him or compare him with cm.

shame england were still caught in the past sticking with 442 and shoved scholes out wide. today we would have fitted them better i feel in a three man midfield. the only problem is that gerrard and lampard were used to midfields being built round them, and really struggled to fit into other systems. for instance gerrard wasn't disciplined to sit deeper for england

if we insist comparing the three, then lampard is third for me. but still not doesnt mean he was bad. the three best club english midfielders in my lifetime (feel gazza was better for england but didnt do as much as those three for clubs)

[Afro]

lampard had the great nack of scoring goals but really couldnt control a midfield like either scholes or gerrard. scholes being by far the best of three at it. lampard was a attacking mid more than anything. you really couldnt play him in a two man midfield, so not sure why we see him or compare him with cm.

shame england were still caught in the past sticking with 442 and shoved scholes out wide. today we would have fitted them better i feel in a three man midfield. the only problem is that gerrard and lampard were used to midfields being built round them, and really struggled to fit into other systems. for instance gerrard wasn't disciplined to sit deeper for england

if we insist comparing the three, then lampard is third for me. but still not doesnt mean he was bad. the three best club english midfielders in my lifetime (feel gazza was better for england but didnt do as much as those three for clubs)

You're obviously too young to remember Carlton Palmer then

[Crimey]

Lampard was a fantastic player and I do think his general midfield play is being underrated on here, he started to control the midfield later in his career and I'm sure he could have done so earlier in his career, he was just more effective further forward. Will be remembered for his goal-scoring exploits, but he was a great all round central midfielder as well.

I do think the strongest argument in the Gerrard vs Lampard is if you swapped the two players at their peak, what would happen to their teams? I feel like Chelsea would certainly not be weaker, maybe even stronger with Gerrard in Lampard's spot whilst Liverpool would certainly be weaker had Lampard replaced Gerrard. Gerrard was less consistent, but his heights were much higher than Lampard.

[GSC]

Odd considering their highest recognition worldwide came in 05 when Lampard finished 2nd in both awards and Gerrard 3rd.

[Crimey]

Odd considering their highest recognition worldwide came in 05 when Lampard finished 2nd in both awards and Gerrard 3rd.

I'm not sure if that is against what I said? 

Not to mention, the quality of teammates has a massive effect on your success in the individual awards, Lampard played with the world's best from about 2003 onwards, Gerrard had to play with some real crap.

[compelling and rich]

ignoring the fact gerrards a scouser. just purely as a player if you asked me as a united fan who i would have prefered as a better signing it would have been gerrard. lampard needed help to flourish, gerrard dragged the ones around him to a better level for large parts (apart from alonso who really helped gerrard). lampard had ballack and makelele with him. two of the best midfielders in the world at what they do, lampard had a easy ride with them two greats.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Interesting theories, Scholes had fantastic players helping him. So Gerrard must be the best. 

Lampard has scored at a striker's rate, whilst still affecting play in the middle of the park. Almost becoming underrated here because he didn't have to storm around. Lampard probably better for longer, but I do agree Gerrard was better

[JDizzle]

Fabulous goal from Hazard, Chelsea 2-0 up and cruising.

[Guest]

When does Big Sam start work?

When will Andy Carroll get back into the England Squad?

When will Klopp turn things around?

[GSC]

4-0 to Sunderland at HT.

Can't imagine that's going to be a fun dressing room.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Jurgen Klopp has been found out

Remember Liverpool didn't need to improve their defence in the transfer window......

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Jurgen Klopp more like Jurgen Clown. Clueless manager. All this stupid chest pumping and simple idiotic behaviour. Just a bang average manager

[GSC]

Hes only been found out if you were nominating him for manager of forever at the halfway stage. Hes a good manager, but hes got to adjust some stuff for the PL

[Crimey]

Third most points at this stage in the Premier League for Liverpool and he's a clueless manager. He has to be judged in the context of where he is, he's managing Liverpool and he's got them to probably above where most would have expected him to get them this year. 

That said this was a dire performance and Klopp has got to take a look at how he's setting the side up. It worked a treat at the start of the season but it's not working any more and he's got to change it. Previously it could be said that we were missing key players to make the system work, but that simply isn't the case right now, Mane, Firmino and Coutinho all starting, Lallana back in midfield and we had the same problem. Teams are just too happy to sit back and soak up the pressure.

Mignolet made a horrible mistake just to remind everyone his limitations as a keeper. It will be really interesting to see if Klopp immediately switches back to Karius, it was clear that he preferred Karius but couldn't justify keeping him in the side with all the media pressure, now that Mignolet has messed up and the whole thing with Karius has died down, might feel comfortable putting him back in.

Klopp has got to change systems now, it's not working and he's got to be harsh and drop some underperforming players. Emre Can can't start for a while, I like him but this was easily the worst performance he's had since coming to Liverpool bar the couple of times Rodgers thought it'd be a good idea to start him at right back. The worst thing though that he seemed lazy today, wasn't fighting for the ball, gave it away far too easily and looked lethargic throughout. Hoping the rumours that he's annoyed about his wage aren't annoyed, on this season's performances he's not good enough for a pay raise and he certainly won't be at the top of any bigger club's shopping lists in the summer.

I think Milner needs a rest from left back, he started really well but recently his footballing brain has taken a dive off of the cliff. Constantly doing the same thing over and over again, gets the ball, runs towards byline, cuts back onto right foot and puts in either a horrible cross or just passes back to the centre back. Moreno is a liability defensively, but on current form, he wouldn't even need to defend that much but he offers pace in behind and width. 

Firmino scored two against Swansea but bar that I think he's actually been quite poor for a while now. His pressing game is what he's valued for but when playing sides who sit back and defend for 90 minutes it's not really worth much. I'd either drop him further back and play a 4-2-3-1 with Origi or Sturridge up top which worked last year, or drop him altogether. He's too slow on the ball and whilst sometimes he's got a perfect first touch, most of the time it's sloppy.

Really disappointing result and performance and I only hope that Klopp addresses this with a load of changes in the next match. He's got a full week to sort the problems out.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Liverpool aren't getting top 4. Lucked out early doors back to also rans now

[Crimey]

Remember Liverpool didn't need to improve their defence in the transfer window......

Nobody said that and Liverpool did improve their defence in the transfer window.

Matip > Skrtel (and Sakho for that matter who is massively overrated)
Klavan > Toure
Milner > Moreno, Enrique etc. 

Since 13/14 summer window, Liverpool have signed: Sakho, Toure, Lovren, Gomez, Moreno, Clyne, Klavan, Matip to sort out the defence. Sometimes just throwing money at it doesn't work, they need a consistent back four. Today was yet another example of why it so important to have a solid and consistent back four, Lovren injured so Lucas steps in and it just isn't as fluid. I would rather have a lower quality but regular back four, than constantly having to swap players. It's one of the major reasons Liverpool couldn't build around Agger or then Sakho because they both get injured far too frequently.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Remember Liverpool didn't need to improve their defence in the transfer window......

Nobody said that and Liverpool did improve their defence in the transfer window.

Matip > Skrtel (and Sakho for that matter who is massively overrated)
Klavan > Toure
Milner > Moreno, Enrique etc. 

Since 13/14 summer window, Liverpool have signed: Sakho, Toure, Lovren, Gomez, Moreno, Clyne, Klavan, Matip to sort out the defence. Sometimes just throwing money at it doesn't work, they need a consistent back four. Today was yet another example of why it so important to have a solid and consistent back four, Lovren injured so Lucas steps in and it just isn't as fluid. I would rather have a lower quality but regular back four, than constantly having to swap players. It's one of the major reasons Liverpool couldn't build around Agger or then Sakho because they both get injured far too frequently.

WINTER transfer window

[Crimey]

Liverpool aren't getting top 4. Lucked out early doors back to also rans now

Even if Manchester City win their game in hand (not a certainty at all) Liverpool are three points outside top four with 14 games left, hardly over. Also with a disproportionate number of home games to come after the delay at the start of the season. 

If Tottenham win their game in hand, still only four points off second for Christ's sake! A lot of football left to be played this season. The only thing that's certain is that Chelsea are going to win the league.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Crimey is trying to make out Matip is a top defender if he was he would've ended up at Bayern Munich or Dortmund. Instead he's at Liverpool

[Sponsored content]