5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

[Crimey]

First topic message reminder :

Also, considering mine and pretty much everybody's doubts Mane has been a fantastic signing.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Liverpool aren't getting top 4. Lucked out early doors back to also rans now

Even if Manchester City win their game in hand (not a certainty at all) Liverpool are three points outside top four with 14 games left, hardly over. Also with a disproportionate number of home games to come after the delay at the start of the season. 

If Tottenham win their game in hand, still only four points off second for Christ's sake! A lot of football left to be played this season. The only thing that's certain is that Chelsea are going to win the league.

Liverpool have a pathetic defence. Manchester City and Manchester United have far more quality and down the stretch will pass Liverpool.

[Crimey]

Remember Liverpool didn't need to improve their defence in the transfer window......

Nobody said that and Liverpool did improve their defence in the transfer window.

Matip > Skrtel (and Sakho for that matter who is massively overrated)
Klavan > Toure
Milner > Moreno, Enrique etc. 

Since 13/14 summer window, Liverpool have signed: Sakho, Toure, Lovren, Gomez, Moreno, Clyne, Klavan, Matip to sort out the defence. Sometimes just throwing money at it doesn't work, they need a consistent back four. Today was yet another example of why it so important to have a solid and consistent back four, Lovren injured so Lucas steps in and it just isn't as fluid. I would rather have a lower quality but regular back four, than constantly having to swap players. It's one of the major reasons Liverpool couldn't build around Agger or then Sakho because they both get injured far too frequently.

WINTER transfer window

Fair enough, but same point remains, it's about having a consistent back four rather than individual quality. 

Who could Liverpool have realistically bought this winter to improve the back four, who would have also have had to settle into a squad mid way through the season, potentially a new country? Defences, more than any other part of a footballing side, are built on relationships rather than individual quality.

[Crimey]

Liverpool aren't getting top 4. Lucked out early doors back to also rans now

Even if Manchester City win their game in hand (not a certainty at all) Liverpool are three points outside top four with 14 games left, hardly over. Also with a disproportionate number of home games to come after the delay at the start of the season. 

If Tottenham win their game in hand, still only four points off second for Christ's sake! A lot of football left to be played this season. The only thing that's certain is that Chelsea are going to win the league.

Liverpool have a pathetic defence. Manchester City and Manchester United have far more quality and down the stretch will pass Liverpool.

We'll see won't we? Over half the season has been played and neither City or United are ahead of Liverpool at this moment, so it's hardly for certain. Not to mention both Arsenal and Tottenham are not safe of dropping out of the top four either.

[Crimey]

Crimey is trying to make out Matip is a top defender if he was he would've ended up at Bayern Munich or Dortmund. Instead he's at Liverpool

You could say that about literally any other player who doesn't play for one of the top sides of Europe...

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I agree to some extent, but a bond of a defence that isn't good enough won't do you many favours. 

I do think you've got some people giving Liverpool pelters beyond what's deserved. The wheels have fallen off worse than lil' lightning in the Simpsons, but they're still Ina great position and competing with bottle jobs around them. Being made out here like Arsenaland Manchester United are amazing and that City have a good defence. City can be brilliant, and I think they'll go on a run, but they won't play West Ham every week.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Liverpool aren't getting top 4. Lucked out early doors back to also rans now

Even if Manchester City win their game in hand (not a certainty at all) Liverpool are three points outside top four with 14 games left, hardly over. Also with a disproportionate number of home games to come after the delay at the start of the season. 

If Tottenham win their game in hand, still only four points off second for Christ's sake! A lot of football left to be played this season. The only thing that's certain is that Chelsea are going to win the league.

Liverpool have a pathetic defence. Manchester City and Manchester United have far more quality and down the stretch will pass Liverpool.

We'll see won't we? Over half the season has been played and neither City or United are ahead of Liverpool at this moment, so it's hardly for certain. Not to mention both Arsenal and Tottenham are not safe of dropping out of the top four either.

Tottenham have the best defensive record in the league, unless they start defending like Liverpool not much chance they'll slip out of the top 4

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Crimey is trying to make out Matip is a top defender if he was he would've ended up at Bayern Munich or Dortmund. Instead he's at Liverpool

You could say that about literally any other player who doesn't play for one of the top sides of Europe...

Matip is basically the best of a dreadful bunch. He wouldn't get a game for any of the other top 6 clubs

[Dolphin Ziggler]

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Liverpool aren't getting top 4. Lucked out early doors back to also rans now

Even if Manchester City win their game in hand (not a certainty at all) Liverpool are three points outside top four with 14 games left, hardly over. Also with a disproportionate number of home games to come after the delay at the start of the season. 

If Tottenham win their game in hand, still only four points off second for Christ's sake! A lot of football left to be played this season. The only thing that's certain is that Chelsea are going to win the league.

Liverpool have a pathetic defence. Manchester City and Manchester United have far more quality and down the stretch will pass Liverpool.

We'll see won't we? Over half the season has been played and neither City or United are ahead of Liverpool at this moment, so it's hardly for certain. Not to mention both Arsenal and Tottenham are not safe of dropping out of the top four either.

Tottenham have the best defensive record in the league, unless they start defending like Liverpool not much chance they'll slip out of the top 4

But how many points ahead are they? I'm sorry, but you seem to think this current form is the story of the season. All those teams in the top six below Chelsea could swap positions over the rest of the season. Lets look at:

Arsenal recent form is scraping by Burnley, losing to Watford, losing to Chelsea

Tottenham just tripped up, and they're a Kane injury away from Janssen or Son up front.

City have been worse than Liverpool at the back this year, and its recent memory that Everton tore them apart.

Manchester United with their flying performances against Hull recently, and Stoke before that.

[Ent]

Think united are the only side that haven't beaten Liverpool since the new year (only one to make them look decent any way) - says it all.

This united side isn't up to much and I can't see it making top four. They just don't have the character to do it when it counts, so many times this season rivals have dropped points before we've played and we can't take the opportunities.

Ibra is top scorer but no one else gets a look in with his style of play, the less said about that plonker Pogba the better.

Expect us to miss any chances we manage to create and Leicester to hit us on the break tomorrow.

Liverpool are tired and opponents have figured out how to play against them.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Remember Liverpool didn't need to improve their defence in the transfer window......

Nobody said that and Liverpool did improve their defence in the transfer window.

Matip > Skrtel (and Sakho for that matter who is massively overrated)
Klavan > Toure
Milner > Moreno, Enrique etc. 

Since 13/14 summer window, Liverpool have signed: Sakho, Toure, Lovren, Gomez, Moreno, Clyne, Klavan, Matip to sort out the defence. Sometimes just throwing money at it doesn't work, they need a consistent back four. Today was yet another example of why it so important to have a solid and consistent back four, Lovren injured so Lucas steps in and it just isn't as fluid. I would rather have a lower quality but regular back four, than constantly having to swap players. It's one of the major reasons Liverpool couldn't build around Agger or then Sakho because they both get injured far too frequently.

WINTER transfer window

To be fair Liverpool have built a consistent back four. It's consistently rubbish

[owen10ozzy]

My word that was a depressing watch! Positives - We made Tottenham look far less fluid than most this season and made them work their tails off for the win...

That being said...is it working them hard when you barely trouble them save for one chance in the 90th minute? If we don't stay up then it will be the most deserving of our Premier League relegations because we simply haven't even given it a go..fair enough against likes of Spurs...but likes of Watford etc simply not acceptable.

[Marky]

Crimey is trying to make out Matip is a top defender if he was he would've ended up at Bayern Munich or Dortmund. Instead he's at Liverpool

Bang on. Bayern snap up everybody who's at the top level in the Bundesliga, they didn't bother with Matip. He's good but he's not elite.

[Ent]

Have to say arsenal were terrible today, just so arsenal.

What's overlooked in hazards goal is an arsenal player trying a stupid flick under no pressure giving it away.

Arsenal players just get such an easy ride, there is no consequence to them under performing. Wenger has the safest job in the premier league - the players should be terrified for their position and working their balls off to stay at the club. There is no threat of player power, he could sell whoever he wants, make anyone train with the reserves but he lets them away with it time and time again.

[Guest]

Wenger's been offered a two year extension, apparently.

The good times roll on.

[Guest]

Defoe's goals return - at his age - is quite staggering. Shows what can be done if you look after yourself.

Palace look like they lack stomach.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Wanted him more than any striker we were linked with, which says a lot considering his age

[owen10ozzy]

Defoes strike rate during his whole career is phenomenal when you consider around 2/3rds have spent with teams fighting relegation!

It says everything about our national side that he has only made 21 starts at International level! Whilst I don't particularly like player of his age being in international sides...Id take Defoe over Rooney at this moment in time.

One of if not the most natural English finisher since Robbie Fowler..another under utilised national player starting only half of his 26 caps.

[owen10ozzy]

Dolph...If one of the likes of yourselves, Stoke, West Brom picked up Defoe you'd immediately become a 'chasing UEFA cup spot' team via the league...that's genuinely how big a difference I think he makes to a team

[Hammersmith harrier]

Bottom half teams where he's the sole focal point is where he excels, he wasn't poor at Tottenham nor was he particularly great either, he's a poacher who adds very little aside from goals. The better teams need players who can score and bring others into the game and it's why he was never a consistent starter for England.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Id have agreed until Sunderland. Hes been able to be successful as a lone striker in a poor side. Its phenomenal

[Crimey]

Remember Liverpool didn't need to improve their defence in the transfer window......

Nobody said that and Liverpool did improve their defence in the transfer window.

Matip > Skrtel (and Sakho for that matter who is massively overrated)
Klavan > Toure
Milner > Moreno, Enrique etc. 

Since 13/14 summer window, Liverpool have signed: Sakho, Toure, Lovren, Gomez, Moreno, Clyne, Klavan, Matip to sort out the defence. Sometimes just throwing money at it doesn't work, they need a consistent back four. Today was yet another example of why it so important to have a solid and consistent back four, Lovren injured so Lucas steps in and it just isn't as fluid. I would rather have a lower quality but regular back four, than constantly having to swap players. It's one of the major reasons Liverpool couldn't build around Agger or then Sakho because they both get injured far too frequently.

WINTER transfer window

To be fair Liverpool have built a consistent back four. It's consistently rubbish

Have they? I don't have the stats with me right now, but I'd be surprised if we've had Clyne, Matip, Lovren and Milner all available at the same time for many games. The only one who has been consistently available has been Milner. Both Matip and Lovren spent time out injured (plus that stupid Cameroon AFCON situation) and even Clyne was out injured for a few games. Klavan has already played 11 games which shows that we've not been able to play our consistent back four.

[Crimey]

Crimey is trying to make out Matip is a top defender if he was he would've ended up at Bayern Munich or Dortmund. Instead he's at Liverpool

Bang on. Bayern snap up everybody who's at the top level in the Bundesliga, they didn't bother with Matip. He's good but he's not elite.

I agree...but not sure what the point is? Obviously Liverpool aren't able to compete with Bayern in the transfer market. It's such a pointless argument. The important thing is that Matip is an improvement on Sakho, Skrtel and Toure who he replaced. He's the best centre back Liverpool have had since Carragher and Hyypia.

[owen10ozzy]

Borderline?! Give over that's a sending off plain as day in this day and age! If that had been Vardy on Mata...red no doubt about it!

[Hammersmith harrier]

It is a borderline decision, it's slight uncontrolled but his foot isn't raised that high, always looks worse on the slow-mo.

[Guest]

I'd probably get Nigel Pearson back a third time

[owen10ozzy]

Shock...Utd fan doesn't think it's a red. Come on now Hammer...if that had happened to an accelerating Rashford it would have been 'it doesn't matter if his foot was high, his studs were showing and he went through the man'.. In the modern day game that's a sending off every day. Mata came around 10-15 yards just to make the challenge.

Anyhow job done for Utd, applying more pressure on those faltering above them. For Leicester what do you do? Can't possibly contemplate sacking a manager who just won them a title can they?

Lesson of the weekend; Chelsea are strolling to this years title and Arsenal are the ultimate chokers!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

He got the decision right re: Mata it's not a red - looks worse cos Vardy does a double somersault with pike afterwards

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Yellow for me too. Not dangerous, just late.

[GSC]

What might scare Leicesters owners into a change is the sides around and below starting to pick up momentum. Hull and Swansea look better sides since changing managers, Palace have a manager who knows how to navigate this situation and even Sunderland look improved lately. Meanwhile Leicester are sliding.

[NickisBHAFC]

I think Ranari should have a job at least until, they go into league one, before there is any minor talk of him getting the sack.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Is there space for sentiment in management? Ranieri would be expected to drop players for underperforming, and should expect pressure if he does.

[Crimey]

The Leicester players have lost motivation basically, for pretty much all of them that was the highlight of their careers and was obviously never going to be repeated. They just can't seem to motivate themselves for the midtable battle and so have now dropped into relegation, this is why they are better in the Champions League as well, because they can get themselves going for those matches.

I bet Vardy is wishing he took the Arsenal move now.

[Crimey]

Had anybody else noticed how poorly Southampton have been doing this year? I hadn't even noticed. Probably not in danger of being relegated but they have got to be very disappointed with how this year has gone. I think a League Cup win would soften that blow but this does seem to be the first year where they haven't bounced back after losing players. 

West Ham, Stoke and Burnley have all been under more scrutiny despite doing better than Southampton with arguably worse squads.

[Guest]

A League Cup triumph and a mid table finish is plenty enough for a club of Southampton's standing. You cant keep progressing upwards. Dud seasons happens to the best of em.

Not that I think they'll beat a Mourinho team in the final, mind.

[Crimey]

Thing is they're closer to relegation than they are even West Brom in 8th, so it's certainly not comfortable mid-table. I don't think they're in any danger of going down, but they're only just above those in danger and quite far away from those in front. If they can put some form together they might be able to climb the league table but considering how well they have recovered from losing managers and players in the past, they have got to be disappointed and it won't bode well for them keeping hold of their best players either. 

I'd imagine the vultures will be circling Van Dijk this summer.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Europa League plus manager change and more sales. I'd put them as likely to come flying back next year with the money they always have to play with, and the Van Dijk cash on top.

I'd guess they'll probably spend £50m plus this summer on centre backs, maybe someone in the middle and a striker.

[Born Slippy]

So who do people see missing out on top 4:

Chelsea - certainties - pretty much wrapped up the league let alone top 4.

Spurs - very strong first team and on a long unbeaten run. Prime position of the rest. Strong prospects - it would require something like an injury to Kane to derail them.

Man City - looked dubious a couple of weeks back but Jesus could be their saviour. Still questionable defence though and Champions League distraction.

Arsenal - desperate current form but always pick up once the title has gone.

Liverpool - even worse current form than Arsenal and weak squad but now have total focus on the league.

Man Utd - long unbeaten run but still only 6th. Probably the best strength in depth in the league. Questionable though in the big matches and a tough run in.

I think Chelsea, City and Spurs will make it - in that order. I'm going for Arsenal to make it in 4th, with United 5th and Liverpool 6th.

[Jermaine2015]

Chelsea
Tottenham
Manchester City
Manchester United

That will be top 4.

Liverpool are poor are in many areas and have the worth squad 6th at best. Arsenal seem to be turning on the legendary Wenger. Sanchez seems uninterested they'll lost out to Manchester United.

[GSC]

Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Spurs

[Crimey]

http://www.football365.com/news/201617-the-season-of-manufactured-crisis

Think that is a good post which does sum up the media this season more than any other really. No team has been allowed to have a run of poor form without it being blown up into a crisis.

[Guest]

Chelsea, Spurs, City and Arsenal.

Man Utd will qualify for the CL via the Europa.

Sunderland, Palace and M'boro to drop.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Chelsea Spurs City Arsenal. The four best teams too.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

West Brom are an awful side.

[Crimey]

Of course the first game I miss this season is the one where we tear Spurs apart....

[wisden]

massively dissapointed by the 2-2 draw with West Brom, WBA are a poor side, and we should have won that game

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

the 2nd half of that liverpool spurs match was atrocious

Did Spurs not watch how Swansea/Hull beat Liverpool?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Very enjoyable that Tottenham, so strong and brilliant in defense, could not handle the weak and belittled Liverpool of the recent week.

[Mat]

massively dissapointed by the 2-2 draw with West Brom, WBA are a poor side, and we should have won that game

Disappointed with a 2-2 draw against a side two places above you? Should be happy with that.

Pulis got out done tactically second half, lucky to scrape a point but we're far from an awful side as our season and position would show

[Guest]

Moyes: "We didn't play as well as we did last week.." No sh!t, Sherlock!

Just seen that Leicester haven't scored a league goal this year. Wow.

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