Brexit

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 02 Dec 2016, 12:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Funniest thing to happen in years. Have been following the craziness on the FT. Despite the implications if our current crop of retards manage to push it through I can't remember when I've read the news everyday without fail and learned something new. What does everyone think of the possibility that we stay in the single market, retain freedom of movement. Pay into the EU coffers and lose our vote ??

by **rIck_dAgless** Thu 30 Mar 2017, 8:45 am

I used to have it when young, there is probably cafes serving just this in the hipster quarters of Leeds.

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 30 Mar 2017, 9:00 am

Galted wrote:
rick_dagless wrote:I mean a piece of buttered toast between 2 rounds of bread

I didn't know such a thing existed. I will try it next time I head up north.

This is the reason why the north is so poor rick. They don't get the necessary nutrients to fuel their brains because they eat toast sandwiches and have to wash it down with beer.

by Corporalhumblebucket Thu 30 Mar 2017, 9:59 am

Lol! David Davis back pedalling furiously on R4 Today programme. One day after Art 50 triggered "the promise" to get "exact same benefits" as UK gets from single market has now been downgraded to "an ambition". Whistle

by dyrewolfe Thu 30 Mar 2017, 2:57 pm

rick_dagless wrote:I used to have it when young, there is probably cafes serving just this in the hipster quarters of Leeds.

Leeds has a hipster quarter? Shocked

Do they even know what hipsters are up there? Laugh

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:
Lol! David Davis back pedalling furiously on R4 Today programme. One day after Art 50 triggered "the promise" to get "exact same benefits" as UK gets from single market has now been downgraded to "an ambition". Whistle

Corporalhumblebucket

Well, anyone who actually believed that initial statement...lets just say I piddy da fool... Wink

No way in hell they were gonna make it that easy for us to walk away. Whistle

Have to admit I was a bit surprised the PM dropped the "D bomb" in the trigger letter. Seems a bit antagonistic to say, right up front, that we might review our defence commitments if they make things difficult for us. Would have thought that was something you'd save until they actually did start being difficult in the negotiations...

Anyways, we are going to have to get used to different and less favourable trading arrangements with Europe. Davis and his team's job is basically to try an minimise how unfavourable the new terms are.

by **rIck_dAgless** Thu 30 Mar 2017, 3:00 pm

I assure you, in parts of Leeds you are practically tripping over topknots, beards and penny blacks.

Not quite as pretentious as the cereal restaurant eating sp**k bubbles from Shoreditch, but they are there.

by **Pr4wn** Thu 30 Mar 2017, 4:22 pm

Lloyds of London, JP Morgan and Citi have all announced they'll be pulling jobs out of London. Just a few at first.

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 30 Mar 2017, 4:28 pm

They had announced it previously in the immediate aftermath of the vote, this is how it will start. Just a few at a time until the area they are relocating to shapes up to accommodate more and more business. Just like how London became King. To be fair though - the likelihood is that London will take a small hit in terms of jobs though financially it will be huge sums, its places with only one or two strings to their bow like Sunderland who are going to pay for it.

by **Pr4wn** Thu 30 Mar 2017, 4:30 pm

It's not just the workers, though. It's the services they're selling. They'll also be sold (and taxed) elsewhere now.

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 30 Mar 2017, 4:40 pm

Aye that's what I meant by financially the sums will be huge but the job losses won't be a great amount. Not immediately at any rate, the major problems will be convergence with Laws we haven't had a say in forming. We have technically reclaimed sovereignty but in reality we will have to bend with every breeze to get any access worth having. The one major loss for us is the access to this.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/priorities/digital-single-market_en

Ideally a private company would do this but the EU has an ability to harmonise regulations that the rest of the world doesn't quite have, for the near future is where it's at. Europe has been behind the times a little when it comes to the technical services but with this it'll hit the ground running.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 31 Mar 2017, 10:25 am

Typical politicians they wait for Article 50 and then Merkel and her mates lump on the British....

May will be a passenger in these talks and my advice is to bet on another PM before the election in 2020.....She has a majority of what 11 ??.....and she'll probably lose Thanet South in an expected re-run.......Farage will win if/when he stands as a history of British fairplay dictates (A trait that is very admirable)

Major had roughly the same majority as May...and had lesser European woes which nearly killed him....He limped to 2007.....The Tories wren't as blood thirsty then either...

My guess is she'll be toast..

by dyrewolfe Fri 31 Mar 2017, 2:13 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Lloyds of London, JP Morgan and Citi have all announced they'll be pulling jobs out of London. Just a few at first.

Thats not what I heard on the news. Lloyds just said they are opening a subsidiary office in Brussels, so they can maintain a presence in Europe...which by the way only makes up 11% of their total business.

Expect the same is broadly true of the other companies. They're not going to totally abandon the UK. London will continue to be a globally important trade / economic centre.

You're as bad as the rest of the scaremongers...

by SecretFly Fri 31 Mar 2017, 2:18 pm

The World War of Conflicting Propaganda.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 31 Mar 2017, 2:33 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Lloyds of London, JP Morgan and Citi have all announced they'll be pulling jobs out of London. Just a few at first.

Thats not what I heard on the news. Lloyds just said they are opening a subsidiary office in Brussels, so they can maintain a presence in Europe...which by the way only makes up 11% of their total business.

Expect the same is broadly true of the other companies. They're not going to totally abandon the UK. London will continue to be a globally important trade / economic centre.

You're as bad as the rest of the scaremongers...

I'm unaware that I said that these companies were going to completely abandon London?

Fact of the matter is that Lloyds are opening up in Brussels when they wouldn't have done that before. That's 11% of their workforce gone from London, by your own numbers. JP Morgan and Citi are doing something similar.

My point is that this is just the start of the process. Nobody is saying that these companies are going to unilaterally pull out of London but equally, Brexiteers can't just stay blinkered and think that London is still going to be the financial capital of the world in 10 years.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 31 Mar 2017, 2:34 pm

Writing off anything that disagrees with your narrative of scaremongering demeans your position.

by SecretFly Fri 31 Mar 2017, 2:47 pm

Pr4wn wrote: Brexiteers can't just stay blinkered and think that London is still going to be the financial capital of the world in 10 years.

It's not the Financial Capital of the world even now so I'm not sure what 'going to be' means.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 31 Mar 2017, 2:52 pm

In many respects, it is. It's also something that's entirely objective.

But thanks for the nitpick, it really helped the debate.

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 31 Mar 2017, 2:57 pm

Tusk

Tusk has spoken.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 31 Mar 2017, 3:07 pm

Anyone else think he looks quite a lot like Woody Harrelson?

by SecretFly Fri 31 Mar 2017, 3:07 pm

Pr4wn wrote:In many respects, it is. It's also something that's entirely objective.

But thanks for the nitpick, it really helped the debate.

It's not nitpicking. It's the difference between an accurate statement and an inaccurate one. And neither is it an issue you can have a subjective opinion on ( I assume you meant subjective?) London isn't the Financial Capital of the World. It's a marketing term the City uses but that's all it is - a marketing term.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 31 Mar 2017, 3:15 pm

Ok, whatever you say, chief.

Stepping away from this riveting debate, the EU is now siding with Spain in the Gibraltar dispute.

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 31 Mar 2017, 5:16 pm

https://www.ft.com/content/74db6a0c-1540-11e7-80f4-13e067d5072c

by Gwlad Fri 31 Mar 2017, 5:36 pm

This is the end

Scotland will bugger off

Gibraltar will quite rightly stay in Europe and hence be annexed by Spain

The Argies will be back in Stanley

Ireland will reunite

The Commonwealth will dissolve after QE2 dies

England will be invaded by Wales.

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 31 Mar 2017, 5:40 pm

Gwlad wrote:This is the end

Scotland will bugger off

Gibraltar will quite rightly stay in Europe and hence be annexed by Spain

The Argies will be back in Stanley

Ireland will reunite

The Commonwealth will dissolve after QE2 dies

England will be invaded by Wales.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 31 Mar 2017, 6:52 pm

Gwlad wrote:This is the end

Scotland will bugger off

Gibraltar will quite rightly stay in Europe and hence be annexed by Spain

The Argies will be back in Stanley

Ireland will reunite

The Commonwealth will dissolve after QE2 dies

England will be invaded by Wales.

That's ok, England will just send Wayne Barnes to the border.

by CaledonianCraig Sun 02 Apr 2017, 7:53 pm

Oh dear. Michael Howard threatening to go to war over the Gibraltar matter. Is this the classic case of foot in the mouth? Poisoning the atmosphere with such comments cannot help prior to going into talks with the EU nations one of which is Spain.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 02 Apr 2017, 8:52 pm

Sarah Palin wanted Obama to invade Iran....

Nobody takes these people seriously...Atmosphere is as before.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 1:12 pm

Sarah Palin isn't the former leader of the Republican Party.

by SecretFly Mon 03 Apr 2017, 1:21 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Sarah Palin isn't the former leader of the Republican Party.

She's the former Leader of the Duck Shooter's Coffee Morning Club. Which is a step up from the Republican Party.... and two steps up from the Monster Raving Looney Democratic Party.

by dyrewolfe Mon 03 Apr 2017, 2:36 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Writing off anything that disagrees with your narrative of scaremongering demeans your position.

Your selective use of facts demeans yours. raspberry

"Just a few, at first", implying that there will be a substantial loss of jobs in the financial sector. Which I think I accurately portrayed as scaremongering, when the full effects of Brexit are impossible to gauge at this stage.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 2:38 pm

You honestly think that these companies are setting up these offshoots just to move a couple of workers now and then no more?

Give over.

by dyrewolfe Mon 03 Apr 2017, 2:39 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Sarah Palin isn't the former leader of the Republican Party.

She's the former Leader of the Duck Shooter's Coffee Morning Club. Which is a step up from the Republican Party.... and two steps up from the Monster Raving Looney Democratic Party.

I thought the MRLP was top of the pile, as far as respectability and integrity went? Laugh

by dyrewolfe Mon 03 Apr 2017, 2:44 pm

Pr4wn wrote:You honestly think that these companies are setting up these offshoots just to move a couple of workers now and then no more?

Give over.

Lloyds have already confirmed what I said previously...unless the BBC's financial analysts have got it completely wrong.

JP Morgan and Citi are American firms and do business all over the world. I'm pretty sure neither are so Euro-centric that they would feel compelled to uproot all their UK based staff and ship them across the Channel.

There will be changes, undoubtedly, but I confidently predict there will not be any kind of catastrophic upheaval. Hell, it probably won't even be as newsworthy as when Lehmann Brothers went bust.

If we see any news footage of former bank workers busking in Tube stations, I will eat a big slice of humble pie.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 2:49 pm

I repeat: I'm not saying that there is going to be "catastrophic upheaval". The rest of your post is ridiculous hyperbole.

London will lose jobs as a result of Brexit. It obviously won't be as newsworthy as the collapse of an entire investment bank leading to the near-collapse of the world economy, but it's important.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:02 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Sarah Palin isn't the former leader of the Republican Party.

So what ??

More relevant than Howard is.. As poster child for the Tea Party.

Stop being pedantic.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:04 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Sarah Palin isn't the former leader of the Republican Party.

She's the former Leader of the Duck Shooter's Coffee Morning Club. Which is a step up from the Republican Party.... and two steps up from the Monster Raving Looney Democratic Party.

Smart enough not to go shooting with Cheney though.

by SecretFly Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:10 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Sarah Palin isn't the former leader of the Republican Party.

She's the former Leader of the Duck Shooter's Coffee Morning Club. Which is a step up from the Republican Party.... and two steps up from the Monster Raving Looney Democratic Party.

Smart enough not to go shooting with Cheney though.

Too right! Nobody with any sense goes near a locked and loaded Cheney. Only time it's safe to be within half a mile of him is when he's kitted out in his sunday best outfit:

Brexit - Page 14 Latest?cb=20100831141956

Brexit - Page 14 Latest?cb=20100831141956

by **Pr4wn** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:17 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Sarah Palin isn't the former leader of the Republican Party.

She's the former Leader of the Duck Shooter's Coffee Morning Club. Which is a step up from the Republican Party.... and two steps up from the Monster Raving Looney Democratic Party.

Smart enough not to go shooting with Cheney though.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Sarah Palin isn't the former leader of the Republican Party.

So what ??

More relevant than Howard is.. As poster child for the Tea Party.

Stop being pedantic.

In their respective countries, Howard is far more relevant than Palin. He's the former leader of the conservatives that's now in the Lords.

Palin was just a candidate at the time. Plus, it's not just about what the public think, it's the ripple effect on international diplomacy. A candidate doing a bit of sabre-rattling is one thing, but an established member of the ruling Conservatives and the House of Lords doing it is something else entirely.

It's not pedantic, bud. They're two completely different situations. Howard was far more irresponsible and should know better.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:22 pm

Howard is a retired politician....He was caretaker leader and got hammered by Blair.

Farage is more relevant and if he wanted war..You'd laugh.

Palin is more relevant because she is a high up member of the Tea Party and the Tea Party hold power in the GOP....

As Trump found out with his healthcare reform bill.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:38 pm

The Tea Party hold some power in the GOP but there are far more non-TP members in Congress and the Senate than TP members, you know that.

Howard is not retired, he's a Lord and he still holds considerable sway.

by Gwlad Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:13 pm

Lets go to war over Gibraltar.

We'd last about 5 minutes; Argentina would invade the Falklands again and this time we'd lose them since we no longer have a navy

The UK is dead in the water. It cut off its own nose to spite its face and since it will soon be cast into isolation by our former trading partners in Europe, I can just see how a war with Spain over Gibraltar would go. To top it off there will be another referendum and this time the Scots will go. IMO this will foment a resurgent separatist movement in Ireland and by my estimates by 2030 the UK will no longer exist.

Nothing lasts forever.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:15 pm

When the GOP has such a small majority 52 -48 in the Senate...4 Tea Party Senators become important...

You have all sorts of clowns in the House of Lords...

by **Pr4wn** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:32 pm

Ha, we can agree on that, at least!

by Derbymanc Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:40 pm

We'll be fine, Gib is the Eu's way of saying to stop messing about, although nice touch with the 'security' line just to remind that we have issues of our own we can bring up.

Argentina is in a massive mess still I believe so if they want to send a couple of rusting old boats over then I don't see it as being much of a problem.

as evidenced by any of the major sea going exercises, we don't have that bad a Navy/ships etc so don't think we need to worry too much on that part (unless the yanks get involved, we're screwed then)

and as for everything else, we're in the lets just say any old crap that pops into our heads now. I've said it before but moreso now is the need for banding together to try and get the best deal, if it all goes wrong because of scaremongering, the remainers will foot the blame from the leavers for not trying to negotiate.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:47 pm

That's the point, isn't it? It's never the Leavers' fault, ever. In their eyes, this will never be a bad idea and if it goes wrong, it's everyone else's fault.

As blinkered as Trump supporters.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 5:22 pm

Gwlad wrote:Lets go to war over Gibraltar.

We'd last about 5 minutes; Argentina would invade the Falklands again and this time we'd lose them since we no longer have a navy

The UK is dead in the water. It cut off its own nose to spite its face and since it will soon be cast into isolation by our former trading partners in Europe, I can just see how a war with Spain over Gibraltar would go. To top it off there will be another referendum and this time the Scots will go. IMO this will foment a resurgent separatist movement in Ireland and by my estimates by 2030 the UK will no longer exist.

Nothing lasts forever.

Change the Broken Record

...

by Derbymanc Mon 03 Apr 2017, 5:31 pm

No that's not the point at all Pr4wn, regardless of whether you voted leave or stay now, we know that the leave bit is coming. By continuing to whine and moan about everything the people that are doing it from within the country are giving us a weaker position to start negotiations from.

The banks moving offices is a great example that everyones ignored as it doesn't suit their argument. It's not a curtailment of jobs, it's opening an extra office, on the bulk of it I'd think that was good as it's giving out more jobs. (regardless of where they are.)

The remainers should now be keeping schtum, letting the brexiteers get on with negotiations ready to come back out of hiding and shout 'told you so' IF it all goes to rat poopie

by Gwlad Mon 03 Apr 2017, 5:58 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Lets go to war over Gibraltar.

We'd last about 5 minutes; Argentina would invade the Falklands again and this time we'd lose them since we no longer have a navy

The UK is dead in the water. It cut off its own nose to spite its face and since it will soon be cast into isolation by our former trading partners in Europe, I can just see how a war with Spain over Gibraltar would go. To top it off there will be another referendum and this time the Scots will go. IMO this will foment a resurgent separatist movement in Ireland and by my estimates by 2030 the UK will no longer exist.

Nothing lasts forever.
Change the ...

Lets go to war over Gibraltar.

We'd last about 6 minutes; Argentina would invade the Falklands again and this time we'd lose them since we no longer have a navy

The UK is dead in the water. It cut off its own nose to spite its face and since it will soon be cast into isolation by our former trading partners in Europe, I can just see how a war with Spain over Gibraltar would go. To top it off there will be another referendum and this time the Scots will go. IMO this will foment a resurgent separatist movement in Ireland and by my estimates by 2030 the UK will no longer exist.

Nothing lasts forever

by SecretFly Mon 03 Apr 2017, 6:05 pm

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 03 Apr 2017, 6:11 pm

Nothing like looking on the brightside..Gwlad

by **Pr4wn** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 6:46 pm

Derbymanc wrote:No that's not the point at all Pr4wn, regardless of whether you voted leave or stay now, we know that the leave bit is coming. By continuing to whine and moan about everything the people that are doing it from within the country are giving us a weaker position to start negotiations from.

The banks moving offices is a great example that everyones ignored as it doesn't suit their argument. It's not a curtailment of jobs, it's opening an extra office, on the bulk of it I'd think that was good as it's giving out more jobs. (regardless of where they are.)

The remainers should now be keeping schtum, letting the brexiteers get on with negotiations ready to come back out of hiding and shout 'told you so' IF it all goes to rat poopie

No, they shouldn't be keeping shtum at all.

If this Tory government has shown anything so far it's that the only thing they care about is wealth transfer from the bottom to the top, as evidenced by their dismantling of the benefits system and the chronic underfunding of the NHS. Without the "moaning" of the remainers, the Govt would have been able to use the Royal Prerogative to shove through Brexit with no scrutiny and no accountability.

Fact of the matter is, I don't trust May, Johnson, Davis or Fox as far as I could throw them. They've all displayed their duplicity multiple times.

Re the banks moving offices, while it's currently only a very small curtailment of jobs, the point I'm making is that this opening in new jurisdictions makes it far easier for these institutions to ship large amounts of staff away from the UK whenever they want.

Suggesting that everyone just remain quiet while May & Co "get on with it" is naive. They have to be called to account on everything. They have all (apart from May) made these ludicrous promises and it's been made crystal clear, especially on Davis' part, that they have very little understanding of what actually has to be done.

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