NIQ players 17-18

Guys I have rather lost track where we are re NIQ contracts for next season

Currently Ulster have Coetzee and Piatau and no Projects - where do the other provinces stand.

The reason I ask is there seems to be a lot of pressure to reduce the numbers over the next couple of years

Gibson Park at Leinster and Kleyn at Munster are the only ones confirmed so far it seems

That kind of support the theory we will see less next year

Gibson Park is a project too

From research online, the status would appear to be:

Ulster
Louis Ludik - 3 year contract extension to June 2020 - uncapped full-back/wing- qualifies for Ireland next June.
Wiehern Herbst - 3 years in Autumn 2017 - uncapped TH prop

Franco van der Merwe - 1 year contract extension ends in June 2017 - SA capped lock
Marcel Coetzee - 3 year contract until June 2019 - SA capped flanker
Ruan Piennaar - contract ends June 2017 - SA capped scrum-half
Charles Piutau - 2 year contract ends in June 18? - NZ capped full-back/wing

Leinster
Hayden Triggs - one year contract exstension ends in June 2017 - uncapped lock.
Jamison Gibson Park - 3 year contract that ends in June 19. - uncapped scrum-half. Would qualify for Ireland in Sept/Oct 2019

Zane Kirchner - 2 year contract extension ends in June 2017 - SA capped full-back/wing
Isa Nacewa - 1 year contract extension ends June 2017 (I think) - Fiji capped full-back/wing

Munster
Rhys Marshall - 3 year contract that ends in June 2019 - uncapped hooker. Qualifies in October 2019
Jean Kleyn - 3-year contract ends in June 2019. - uncapped lock. Qualifies in Sept 2019
Tyler Bleyendaal - 3 year contract ending Nov 2017 - uncapped out-half/12. Qualifies in Nov 2017.

Francis Sailii - 2 year contract ends in June 2017 - NZ capped centre
Mark Chisholm - 2-year contract ends in June 2017. Aus capped lock

Thomas du Toit - 3 month contract - ends in December 2016
Te Aihe Toma - short-term contract - uncapped scrum half
Jaco Taute - 4 month contract ending December 2016 - uncapped centre

Connacht
Jake Heenan - 2 year contract extension ends in June 2018 - uncapped flanker - qualified for Ireland in June 2016
Bundee Aki - 3 year contract extension ends in June 2020 - uncapped centre. Qualifies for Ireland in October 2017
Tom McCartney - 3-year contract ends in June 2017. uncapped hooker. Qualifies in November 2017

Marnitz Boshoff - 2 year contract ends in June 2018 - SA capped out-half
Stacey Ili - 1 year contract - uncapped utility back
Daniel Poolman - 2-year contract extension ends in June 2017. Uncapped wing. Qualified by residency in June 2015.

Naulia Dawai - 2 year contract ends in November 2018. Fiji- capped flanker
Nepia Fox-Matamua - 2-year contract ends in June 2017 - uncapped flanker

Presumably there's going to be less project players coming in because there's a good chance the residency rules will change.

I'm guessing Munster will want to extend Jaco Taute. He looked good against us at the weekend.

Thanks Pot re your queries:

Piatau is 2018 and he is definitely going home then - stated he want to make the 2019 World Cup squad.
Nacewa is this coming summer

As to Taute my understanding is he is definitely away as Salli returns to fitness
So ignoring Bleyendaal, who will nearly there anyway we have only 5 players in what used to be described as the 3 'senior provinces'
Should add Herbst will be Irish qualified next summer as well

Gives credence to my belief we could well be down to 4 in 17-18 and 3 in 18-19 - per province.
Not sure where Connacht are on that measure

Agree Geoff.

You can clearly see the effects of:

Increasing salary scales for capped, high quality players - Piutau is the exception at this stage.
Tighter cost controls - at Munster in particular - therefore, they've shifted to younger inexperienced uncapped players.
Greater scrutiny by Nucifora on foreign recruitment with a view to a) using domestic players or b) uncapped players.

The 4+ 1 policy seems to have gone out the window.

Currently, based on existing contract durations
Ulster appear to have 4+2
Leinster have 2+1
Munster have 2 + 3
Connacht have 2+2.

And those will change at season end with Van der Merw, Pienaar, Nacewa, Kirchner, Sailii, Chisholm all out the door. Munster are making noises about keeping Taute, given that Sail's time is up in June next year.

There's a good interview with Nucifora on the IRFU website (about April/May I think) in which he explains the long-term strategy for Player Development up to RWC2023 and what IRFU are trying to achieve with regard to domestic pathway and project player imports.

Confused by your figures though
Ignoring short term contracts (less than a year)

Ulster are going from 4+2 to 2+0
Leinster from 2+2 to 0+1
Munster from 2+3 to 0+2 (counting Bleyendaal as Irish qualified next year)
Connacht from 2+5 to 2+2 (counting McCartney as Irish qualified next year)

Obviously some changes though - for instance I believe Ulster will get a new no 8 who could be a Project before the rules change.
But it certainly looks like the number will drop significantly

geoff999rugby wrote:Confused by your figures though
Ignoring short term contracts (less than a year)

Ulster are going from 4+2 to 2+0
Leinster from 2+2 to 0+1
Munster from 2+3 to 0+2 (counting Bleyendaal as Irish qualified next year)
Connacht from 2+5 to 2+2 (counting McCartney as Irish qualified next year)

Obviously some changes though - for instance I believe Ulster will get a new no 8 who could be a Project before the rules change.
But it certainly looks like the number will drop significantly

Yeah - you're right Geoff. I was excluding the one-year and two-year contract players.

I wonder if Pichot's Rule will take effect immediately or only for players who move after it is imposed? Residency can't be included in a contract I presume, so there's no legal fallback, or is there?
I'd hope that it takes effect immediately.

Agreed still not happy with Payne for example.

As soon as his rugby days are over he'll be on the first plane back to New Zealand.

Don't mind people like Diack though who may well stay or the likes of Andy Ward who is here for keeps - they have brought into the way of life. When you sign a player you don't know if they are a mercenary or a person who genuinely wants to stay and there is big part of the problem.

Is a change imminent though ?
I know it is being reviewed but my impression is there is a lot of resistance to any change.

Pot Hale wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Confused by your figures though
Ignoring short term contracts (less than a year)

Ulster are going from 4+2 to 2+0
Leinster from 2+2 to 0+1
Munster from 2+3 to 0+2 (counting Bleyendaal as Irish qualified next year)
Connacht from 2+5 to 2+2 (counting McCartney as Irish qualified next year)

Obviously some changes though - for instance I believe Ulster will get a new no 8 who could be a Project before the rules change.
But it certainly looks like the number will drop significantly

Yeah - you're right Geoff.  I was excluding the one-year and two-year contract players.

I wonder if Pichot's Rule will take effect immediately or only for players who move after it is imposed?  Residency can't be included in a contract I presume, so there's no legal fallback, or is there?
I'd hope that it takes effect immediately.

That hasn't materialised yet, has it? I thought they were just going to discuss changing it first.

Yeah I can see the IRFU looking to reduce NIQs further. Just had a look at the Ireland 2015 JWC U20 squad and I'd say about 4 players have more than 10 provincial caps ( Carbery, Arnold, Stockdale and Ringrose). So there's still a strong backlog of home grown players so I can foresee less need to fill any gaps in the squad with NIQs or project players. Nucifora said it a few months back. Basically the IRFU would prefer less quantity of foreign players but more quality. So maybe 2 high profile signings instead of 5 or 6 average ones.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Presumably there's going to be less project players coming in because there's a good chance the residency rules will change.

I'm guessing Munster will want to extend Jaco Taute. He looked good against us at the weekend.

I don't think residency rules will change. All northern hemisphere teams are benefiting from them and unsurprisingly the Australians said they don't want it to change. I don't see and will to change although there is some outside pressure.

geoff999rugby wrote:Agreed still not happy with Payne for example.

As soon as his rugby days are over he'll be on the first plane back to New Zealand.

Don't mind people like Diack though who may well stay or the likes of Andy Ward who is here for keeps - they have brought into the way of life. When you sign a player you don't know if they are a mercenary or a person who genuinely wants to stay and there is big part of the problem.

Is a change imminent though ?
I know it is being reviewed but my impression is there is a lot of resistance to any change.

I think you are being a bit harsh on players needing to stick around to really buy into the place. I can think of lots of players who ''bought into Munster/Ireland'' but returned home after their stint here - guys like Shaun Payne, Jim Langford, Jim Williams, Jason Holland. I suspect that CJ Stander will return to SA when he finishes with rugby because he will want to return to the family farm in SA, but no one should ever accuse him of not buying into the place.

Ireland, France, Scotland are benefiting from it the most and Australia. It might suit some countries like Canada or US. With the revised voting allocations in World Rugby, I can see how it might happen. Argentina, SA, NZ are likely to be opposed. I don't think it would make any difference to England if it changed, they have plenty of depth.

In fact, I think Pichot's Rule will be a case of when not if. There's also talk of the grandparent rule being dropped as well, and make it only parents. I think this would be more difficult, since it would conflict with passport/citizenship criteria in many countries.

profitius wrote:Yeah I can see the IRFU looking to reduce NIQs further. Just had a look at the Ireland 2015 JWC U20 squad and I'd say about 4 players have more than 10 provincial caps (  Carbery, Arnold, Stockdale and Ringrose). So there's still a strong backlog of home grown players so I can foresee less need to fill any gaps in the squad with NIQs or project players. Nucifora said it a few months back. Basically the IRFU would prefer less quantity of foreign players but more quality. So maybe 2 high profile signings instead of 5 or 6 average ones.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Presumably there's going to be less project players coming in because there's a good chance the residency rules will change.

I'm guessing Munster will want to extend Jaco Taute. He looked good against us at the weekend.

I don't think residency rules will change. All northern hemisphere teams are benefiting from them and unsurprisingly the Australians said they don't want it to change. I don't see and will to change although there is some outside pressure.

I think there are a couple of positions where foreign genes maybe required (like prop and lock).

Pot Hale wrote:Ireland, France, Scotland are benefiting from it the most and Australia.   It might suit some countries like Canada or US.   With the revised voting allocations in World Rugby, I can see how it might happen.  Argentina, SA, NZ are likely to be opposed.  I don't think it would make any difference to England if it changed, they have plenty of depth.  

In fact, I think Pichot's Rule will be a case of when not if.   There's also talk of the grandparent rule being dropped as well, and make it only parents.  I think this would be more difficult, since it would conflict with passport/citizenship criteria in many countries.

Countries like Samoa and Fiji wouldn't be happy about that rule. It wouldn't suit many of the Irish exiles either.

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:Yeah I can see the IRFU looking to reduce NIQs further. Just had a look at the Ireland 2015 JWC U20 squad and I'd say about 4 players have more than 10 provincial caps (  Carbery, Arnold, Stockdale and Ringrose). So there's still a strong backlog of home grown players so I can foresee less need to fill any gaps in the squad with NIQs or project players. Nucifora said it a few months back. Basically the IRFU would prefer less quantity of foreign players but more quality. So maybe 2 high profile signings instead of 5 or 6 average ones.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Presumably there's going to be less project players coming in because there's a good chance the residency rules will change.

I'm guessing Munster will want to extend Jaco Taute. He looked good against us at the weekend.

I don't think residency rules will change. All northern hemisphere teams are benefiting from them and unsurprisingly the Australians said they don't want it to change. I don't see and will to change although there is some outside pressure.

I think there are a couple of positions where foreign genes maybe required (like prop and lock).

There's a young Ukranian prop who's come through schools/club/academy in Connacht....

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:Yeah I can see the IRFU looking to reduce NIQs further. Just had a look at the Ireland 2015 JWC U20 squad and I'd say about 4 players have more than 10 provincial caps (  Carbery, Arnold, Stockdale and Ringrose). So there's still a strong backlog of home grown players so I can foresee less need to fill any gaps in the squad with NIQs or project players. Nucifora said it a few months back. Basically the IRFU would prefer less quantity of foreign players but more quality. So maybe 2 high profile signings instead of 5 or 6 average ones.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Presumably there's going to be less project players coming in because there's a good chance the residency rules will change.

I'm guessing Munster will want to extend Jaco Taute. He looked good against us at the weekend.

I don't think residency rules will change. All northern hemisphere teams are benefiting from them and unsurprisingly the Australians said they don't want it to change. I don't see and will to change although there is some outside pressure.

I think there are a couple of positions where foreign genes maybe required (like prop and lock).

Huh? What country's props would you swap Furlong and McGrath for?

profitius wrote:

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:Yeah I can see the IRFU looking to reduce NIQs further. Just had a look at the Ireland 2015 JWC U20 squad and I'd say about 4 players have more than 10 provincial caps (  Carbery, Arnold, Stockdale and Ringrose). So there's still a strong backlog of home grown players so I can foresee less need to fill any gaps in the squad with NIQs or project players. Nucifora said it a few months back. Basically the IRFU would prefer less quantity of foreign players but more quality. So maybe 2 high profile signings instead of 5 or 6 average ones.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Presumably there's going to be less project players coming in because there's a good chance the residency rules will change.

I'm guessing Munster will want to extend Jaco Taute. He looked good against us at the weekend.

I don't think residency rules will change. All northern hemisphere teams are benefiting from them and unsurprisingly the Australians said they don't want it to change. I don't see and will to change although there is some outside pressure.

I think there are a couple of positions where foreign genes maybe required (like prop and lock).

Huh? What country's props would you swap Furlong and McGrath for?

Furlong and McGrath can't play for four Provinces. We need fourteen more McGraths & Furlongs to compete. Probably do ok at loosehead, but TH is a different kettle of fish.

At tightheads we have Furlong, Bealham, Ryan, Ross, Moore, Carey, Bent with more on the way.

Loose head McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne, James Cronin, Buckley with Dooley and Porter coming through.


From that list only Ross is and old prop. The problem (if you think there is one) was that Irish rugby ignored scrummaging for years and have addressed that problem. If anything we're a good scrummaging nation now.


Theres plenty of second rows around too so I don't see a problem there either. The main problem area for Ireland is scrum half and hooker and they're more technical positions.

Well I reckon Ulster have a TH well worth keeping in Herbst - honestly would not be surprised if he is Furlongs backup in a year or two - he is the real deal.
Also Bealham is a lot better than he is given credit for

Munster could do with a decent TH though

LH looks good ok.
IN truth we are better served at prop than we have been for years.

Lock is more of a problem we only have Toner, Henderson and Dillane.
Very reliant on Ryan who is now 33

After that a big gulf

profitius wrote:At tightheads we have Furlong, Bealham, Ryan, Ross, Moore, Carey, Bent with more on the way.

Loose head McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne, James Cronin, Buckley with Dooley and Porter coming through.


From that list only Ross is and old prop. The problem (if you think there is one) was that Irish rugby ignored scrummaging for years and have addressed that problem. If anything we're a good scrummaging nation now.


Theres plenty of second rows around too so I don't see a problem there either. The main problem area for Ireland is scrum half and hooker and they're more technical positions.

Absolutely every one of those props has another 5 years at least injuries permitting. Its amazing the difference in quality of players when the IRFU turn their attention to a specific position. Scrum half needs to be next.

Forgot about Ryan so all 4 provinces will have a decent IQ TH next year - we are in clover

LH not only those listed don't underestimate McCall he is going to be a good one as well
The 2 boys at Leinster and Buckley will do see us right for the next few years

I'd go further Irleland has never before been so blessed with such depth at prop

profitius wrote:At tightheads we have Furlong, Bealham, Ryan, Ross, Moore, Carey, Bent with more on the way.

Loose head McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne, James Cronin, Buckley with Dooley and Porter coming through.

From that list only Ross is and old prop. The problem (if you think there is one) was that Irish rugby ignored scrummaging for years and have addressed that problem. If anything we're a good scrummaging nation now.

Theres plenty of second rows around too so I don't see a problem there either. The main problem area for Ireland is scrum half and hooker and they're more technical positions.

Of the THs you mention, only Furlong and Ryan are homegrown (the rest are getting on a bit or have yet to prove themselves). My point is that we do throw up one or two decent front row players every 10/12 years, but we need more and that is why we will still be reliant on granny rule at least for some positions.

Herbst and Bealham are 28 and 25 respectively and both are fine prospects and both, next year, Irish qualified.
I'd back both to make it as a more than adequate backups to Furlong.
If we get desperate always offer Moore a contract to come home

Yes we have to look at prospects - Ulster have at least one in Kane but lets see what develops before playing the Project card.

We are fine compared to previous years when it was Hayes, Best as backup and then a total fall off a cliff.

Sin é wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Agreed still not happy with Payne for example.

As soon as his rugby days are over he'll be on the first plane back to New Zealand.

Don't mind people like Diack though who may well stay or the likes of Andy Ward who is here for keeps - they have brought into the way of life. When you sign a player you don't know if they are a mercenary or a person who genuinely wants to stay and there is big part of the problem.

Is a change imminent though ?
I know it is being reviewed but my impression is there is a lot of resistance to any change.

I think you are being a bit harsh on players needing to stick around to really buy into the place. I can think of lots of players who ''bought into Munster/Ireland'' but returned home after their stint here - guys like Shaun Payne, Jim Langford, Jim Williams, Jason Holland. I suspect that CJ Stander will return to SA when he finishes with rugby because he will want to return to the family farm in SA, but no one should ever accuse him of not buying into the place.

He is an outstanding player, he is an asset to the team but I don't accept this 'buying into the place'

Stander and Payne are paid well, saw the prospect of international rugby and will go home as soon as the career is over.
Neither is a Irishman at heart and that is what is wrong with the residency system.

Pot Hale wrote:Ireland, France, Scotland are benefiting from it the most and Australia.   It might suit some countries like Canada or US.   With the revised voting allocations in World Rugby, I can see how it might happen.  Argentina, SA, NZ are likely to be opposed.  I don't think it would make any difference to England if it changed, they have plenty of depth.  

In fact, I think Pichot's Rule will be a case of when not if.   There's also talk of the grandparent rule being dropped as well, and make it only parents.  I think this would be more difficult, since it would conflict with passport/citizenship criteria in many countries.

I can't see how Pichot's rule could supercede the legalities of Irish citizenship through grandparentage. Quite simply, anybody from overseas with one Irish grandparent is fully entitled to apply for Irish citizenship (I have a Canadian niece in that exact situation who has done just that) with all the accompanying rights. If World Rugby tried to abolish the grandparentage qualification, they would be entering a legal minefield - can't see it happen. Can certainly see though the three year rule being extended to five and to be honest have no great issue with that.

That would be my take - any change will not touch the granny rule only the residency one.

Given the above list, we're nearly at the stage where the IRFU can reveal their secret plan to recreate the missing fifth/province - Cúige Mhí.  Starring:

15 Louis Ludik
14 Danie Poolman
13 Jared Payne
12 Bundee Aki
11 Stacey Ilii
10 Tyler Bleyendaal
9 Jamison Gibson Park
8 CJ Stander
7 Jake Heenan
6 Nepia Fox Matamua
5 Jean Kleyn
4 Quinn Roux
3 Weihahn Herbst
2 Tom McCartney
1 Rodney Ah You

16 Rhys Marshall
17 Michael Bent
18 Ivan Soroka
19 James Cannon
20 Robbie Diack
21 TBA
22 TBA
23 TBA

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:At tightheads we have Furlong, Bealham, Ryan, Ross, Moore, Carey, Bent with more on the way.

Loose head McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne, James Cronin, Buckley with Dooley and Porter coming through.

From that list only Ross is and old prop. The problem (if you think there is one) was that Irish rugby ignored scrummaging for years and have addressed that problem. If anything we're a good scrummaging nation now.

Theres plenty of second rows around too so I don't see a problem there either. The main problem area for Ireland is scrum half and hooker and they're more technical positions.

Of the THs you mention, only Furlong and Ryan are homegrown (the rest are getting on a bit or have yet to prove themselves). My point is that we do throw up one or two decent front row players every 10/12 years, but we need more and that is why we will still be reliant on granny rule at least for some positions.

Furlong, Bealham and Ryan in the last year alone. In the next year we might see Niall Scannell step up.

And as I mentioned a couple of Ulster boys will come into the mix next year.
What has changed in the last few years is a steady stream of decent props.
If required we have Moore and McAllister playing regularly in England

Hooker is more of problem than Prop - big drop off from Best to Cronin for example

What is the latest news re other Provinces.

Ulster looks like 3+1 Coetzee, Piatau, Botha + kiwi LH

geoff999rugby wrote:What is the latest news re other Provinces.

Ulster looks like 3+1 Coetzee, Piatau, Botha + kiwi LH

Munster look like
Kleyn, Marshall and possibly Taute.

Leinster
Hard to know if Nacewa will be still playing there next season. Looks like Kitchener will be off. That leaves Trigger and Gibson-Park.

Connacht.
I'm not sure what the story is there but they will fill up their quota.

profitius wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:What is the latest news re other Provinces.

Ulster looks like 3+1 Coetzee, Piatau, Botha + kiwi LH

Munster look like
Kleyn, Marshall and possibly Taute.

Leinster
Hard to know if Nacewa will be still playing there next season. Looks like Kitchener will be off. That leaves Trigger and Gibson-Park.

Connacht.
I'm not sure what the story is there but they will fill up their quota.

Leinster
Hayden  Triggs has his contract extended for one year until June 2017.  He's 34 this year so I don't think it's likely he'll stay on - particularly if there are other IQ players looking to break through.
Gibson Park is on a 3-year unfortunately so he'll still be around.
Nacewa's contract ends this year also.  With Fitzgerald retired and Kirchner off the books, I think Leinster will want to bring in a back/three player - ostensibly at full back to back-up R Kearney who's not getting any younger.  It's the one area where Leinster are weak in home-grown talent with only Jack Power a first-year academy player.  At one point, the NZ player, Israel Dagg, was being touted but he may cost too much.  Might Andrew Conway travel back up the N7 at some point since Munster have Sweetnam and Zebo?

Connacht don't have any quotas applied to them.  They've brought in a shed-load of Fijian/NZ players - some of them short-term or one-year deals like the Fijian international backrower, Naulia Dawai.  

Marnitz Boshoff - SA Capped outhalf
Jake Heenan - already residency qualified since June 2016 but a perma-injury player
Danie Poolman - already residency qualified since June 2015 but not making any waves

Then they have a number of uncapped players who could become residency qualified:

Tom McCartney - 3 years in mid-Nov 2017
Bundee Aki - 3 years in Oct 2017
Robertson-McCoy - may already be IQ through grandparents

Two others whose contracts are up at end season
Fox-Matamua - 2-year contract that finished in June 2017
Stacey Ilii - one year contract to June 2017.

How has Gibson-Park been playing? Is he any good? Slightly off topic, what's the likelihood of any Leinster backrowers leaving? What's their contract situation like?

Maine man wrote:How has Gibson-Park been playing? Is he any good? Slightly off topic, what's the likelihood of any Leinster backrowers leaving? What's their contract situation like?

Gibson-Park has been playing well, keeps the tempo up off the bench. Himself a Luke McG seem to be pushing each other well. Scored a sensational try vs Saints at FG.

I would like to perhaps see 2 of Dom Ryan, J Murphy and Rudduck leave. It would stretch Leinster during the international windows, but it means that we are forced to use our academy players, and that is good thing in the long run.

the-goon wrote:

Maine man wrote:How has Gibson-Park been playing? Is he any good? Slightly off topic, what's the likelihood of any Leinster backrowers leaving? What's their contract situation like?

Gibson-Park has been playing well, keeps the tempo up off the bench. Himself a Luke McG seem to be pushing each other well. Scored a sensational try vs Saints at FG.

I would like to perhaps see 2 of Dom Ryan, J Murphy and Rudduck leave. It would stretch Leinster during the international windows, but it means that we are forced to use our academy players, and that is good thing in the long run.

Please do get rid of them and send them North please

marty2086 wrote:

the-goon wrote:

Maine man wrote:How has Gibson-Park been playing? Is he any good? Slightly off topic, what's the likelihood of any Leinster backrowers leaving? What's their contract situation like?

Gibson-Park has been playing well, keeps the tempo up off the bench. Himself a Luke McG seem to be pushing each other well. Scored a sensational try vs Saints at FG.

I would like to perhaps see 2 of Dom Ryan, J Murphy and Rudduck leave. It would stretch Leinster during the international windows, but it means that we are forced to use our academy players, and that is good thing in the long run.

Please do get rid of them and send them North please

Make them want to go up north, this seems to be the main issue. Get creative.

the-goon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

the-goon wrote:

Maine man wrote:How has Gibson-Park been playing? Is he any good? Slightly off topic, what's the likelihood of any Leinster backrowers leaving? What's their contract situation like?

Gibson-Park has been playing well, keeps the tempo up off the bench. Himself a Luke McG seem to be pushing each other well. Scored a sensational try vs Saints at FG.

I would like to perhaps see 2 of Dom Ryan, J Murphy and Rudduck leave. It would stretch Leinster during the international windows, but it means that we are forced to use our academy players, and that is good thing in the long run.

Please do get rid of them and send them North please

Make them want to go up north, this seems to be the main issue. Get creative.

We'll see about getting heated seats on our bench like they do at the RDS

the-goon wrote:

Maine man wrote:How has Gibson-Park been playing? Is he any good? Slightly off topic, what's the likelihood of any Leinster backrowers leaving? What's their contract situation like?

Gibson-Park has been playing well, keeps the tempo up off the bench. Himself a Luke McG seem to be pushing each other well. Scored a sensational try vs Saints at FG.

I would like to perhaps see 2 of Dom Ryan, J Murphy and Rudduck leave. It would stretch Leinster during the international windows, but it means that we are forced to use our academy players, and that is good thing in the long run.

Back in November Jordi was starting flanker for Ireland against NZ in Chicago. Now he's out the door.

We do have to open up some space though, there is still some decent quality to come through from underage.

Would love to see J Murphy move North, think it would actually be best for the Player, best for Ulster and may benefit Leinster as they have a logjam of back rows, it would clear a wage off, and allow a younger player in.

I think it would take sometime like Leinster saying they are not going t renew his contact and Ulster then making eyes to draw a player North (of course we do risk hime moving to France/England) but I think he has international aspirations,

Coetzee, Murphy, Henry, Botha, Copeland, Lorcan Dow, Sean Reidy, Robbie Diack
that would be a good back row for next season, and only one Ulster bred player too.

If we cant sign Conan for a year or Copeland to be honest we should not bother asking established southerners to come north it is a complete and utter waste of time

McFadden, Conway, Murphy, McLaughlin, Conan, Ruddock, Ryan, Marsh have all been made good offers i.e. they don't lose out financially - all have said no.
That may not be a comprehensive list

We can't keep flogging that dead horse trying to force players North who simply won't do it regardless of game time or finances. I know there is a bit of a stigma attached to us in the North and particularly Belfast. People perceive things how they're portrayed by the media unfortunately. A colleague of mine makes the commute from Dublin on a daily basis and he told me all about the issues he had taking a job in the north. He's a professional, well educated guy so I do wonder how widely that perception is held.

So how are we shaping up for 17-18

Ulster are Botha, Coetzee, Piatau + Van der Merwe
All 3 Saffers seem either injury prone or rubbish - time for the IQ boys to step up to the mark.
Charlie apart we may well field many a team with 22 IQ players

geoff999rugby wrote:If we cant sign Conan for a year or Copeland to be honest we should not bother asking established southerners to come north it is a complete and utter waste of time

McFadden, Conway, Murphy, McLaughlin, Conan, Ruddock, Ryan, Marsh have all been made good offers i.e. they don't lose out financially - all have said no.
That may not be a comprehensive list

Conan was offered the chance to come to the AP and Leicester for two years. He didn't fancy that either. Even with Geordan doing the talking. I just don't think the lad wanted to leave. He knows Heaslip isn't getting any younger.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:If we cant sign Conan for a year or Copeland to be honest we should not bother asking established southerners to come north it is a complete and utter waste of time

McFadden, Conway, Murphy, McLaughlin, Conan, Ruddock, Ryan, Marsh have all been made good offers i.e. they don't lose out financially - all have said no.
That may not be a comprehensive list

Conan was offered the chance to come to the AP and Leicester for two years. He didn't fancy that either. Even with Geordan doing the talking. I just don't think the lad wanted to leave. He knows Heaslip isn't getting any younger.

Heaslips signed with the IRFU for another 3 years

Pot Hale wrote:Ireland, France, Scotland are benefiting from it the most and Australia.   It might suit some countries like Canada or US.   With the revised voting allocations in World Rugby, I can see how it might happen.  Argentina, SA, NZ are likely to be opposed.  I don't think it would make any difference to England if it changed, they have plenty of depth.  

In fact, I think Pichot's Rule will be a case of when not if.   There's also talk of the grandparent rule being dropped as well, and make it only parents.  I think this would be more difficult, since it would conflict with passport/citizenship criteria in many countries.

I can't see any way how the granny rule can be dropped, Irish law (not sure about situation in UK) says that anybody with one Irish grandparent can apply for Irish citizenship, so if World Rugby suddenly says that an Irish citizen by virtue of grandparentage is prohibited from playing for Ireland they'd be in a legal minefield. Can certainly see Pichot's five-year rule coming in and tbh have no great issue with it.

brennomac wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Ireland, France, Scotland are benefiting from it the most and Australia.   It might suit some countries like Canada or US.   With the revised voting allocations in World Rugby, I can see how it might happen.  Argentina, SA, NZ are likely to be opposed.  I don't think it would make any difference to England if it changed, they have plenty of depth.  

In fact, I think Pichot's Rule will be a case of when not if.   There's also talk of the grandparent rule being dropped as well, and make it only parents.  I think this would be more difficult, since it would conflict with passport/citizenship criteria in many countries.

I can't see any way how the granny rule can be dropped, Irish law (not sure about situation in UK) says that anybody with one Irish grandparent can apply for Irish citizenship, so if World Rugby suddenly says that an Irish citizen by virtue of grandparentage is prohibited from playing for Ireland they'd be in a legal minefield.  Can certainly see Pichot's five-year rule coming in and tbh have no great issue with it.

Why would it be a legal minefield? Its the same as it is now

I was about to ask about Tyler Bleyendaal, does he have aspirations of playing for Ireland? He looks like a very handy player to have.