NIQ players 17-18

First topic message reminder :

Guys I have rather lost track where we are re NIQ contracts for next season

Currently Ulster have Coetzee and Piatau and no Projects - where do the other provinces stand.

The reason I ask is there seems to be a lot of pressure to reduce the numbers over the next couple of years

formerly known as Sam wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:If we cant sign Conan for a year or Copeland to be honest we should not bother asking established southerners to come north it is a complete and utter waste of time

McFadden, Conway, Murphy, McLaughlin, Conan, Ruddock, Ryan, Marsh have all been made good offers i.e. they don't lose out financially - all have said no.
That may not be a comprehensive list

Conan was offered the chance to come to the AP and Leicester for two years. He didn't fancy that either. Even with Geordan doing the talking. I just don't think the lad wanted to leave. He knows Heaslip isn't getting any younger.

I think people massively underestimate the value of player lifestyle. If someone loves living in Dublin the money would have to be insane to move to somewhere like Leicester or Belfast. In soccer, the money is insane, so players will live anywhere. In rugby the couple 100k difference most players would be getting for a "big move" is not worth the change in lifestyle for alot of players.

wolfball wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:If we cant sign Conan for a year or Copeland to be honest we should not bother asking established southerners to come north it is a complete and utter waste of time

McFadden, Conway, Murphy, McLaughlin, Conan, Ruddock, Ryan, Marsh have all been made good offers i.e. they don't lose out financially - all have said no.
That may not be a comprehensive list

Conan was offered the chance to come to the AP and Leicester for two years. He didn't fancy that either. Even with Geordan doing the talking. I just don't think the lad wanted to leave. He knows Heaslip isn't getting any younger.

I think people massively underestimate the value of player lifestyle. If someone loves living in Dublin the money would have to be insane to move to somewhere like Leicester or Belfast. In soccer, the money is insane, so players will live anywhere. In rugby the couple 100k difference most players would be getting for a "big move" is not worth the change in lifestyle for alot of players.

Not true at all, plenty of football players won't live in certain places. Roy Keane used to commute from Manchester to Sunderland when he was manager there, teams like Aston Villa and Birmingham have had problems in the past attracting players because its Birmingham and guys like Joe Cole used to commute from London every day, even the Manchester teams have struggled at times to sign players especially when in competition with London clubs.

Dublin isn't the other side of the world from Belfast so travelling from the north of Dublin in particular to Belfast isn't exactly a crazy idea

wolfball wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:If we cant sign Conan for a year or Copeland to be honest we should not bother asking established southerners to come north it is a complete and utter waste of time

McFadden, Conway, Murphy, McLaughlin, Conan, Ruddock, Ryan, Marsh have all been made good offers i.e. they don't lose out financially - all have said no.
That may not be a comprehensive list

Conan was offered the chance to come to the AP and Leicester for two years. He didn't fancy that either. Even with Geordan doing the talking. I just don't think the lad wanted to leave. He knows Heaslip isn't getting any younger.

I think people massively underestimate the value of player lifestyle. If someone loves living in Dublin the money would have to be insane to move to somewhere like Leicester or Belfast. In soccer, the money is insane, so players will live anywhere. In rugby the couple 100k difference most players would be getting for a "big move" is not worth the change in lifestyle for alot of players.

I doubt there was a couple 100k difference in wages. Tigers don't have the cap space and the pound is no longer as strong against the Euro. There is a big difference in the cost of living between areas as well, Quins fans like to point out that the salary cap dent take into account the much higher cost of living in London, similarly it's cheaper to live in Leicestershire (none of the players live in the city) than Dublin. The lifestyle is also very different when you need a car compared to city living when everything is on your doorstep.

If Conan has his heart in Dublin then fair play to him wanting to remain. He's getting game time and is in and around the Ireland squad.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

wolfball wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:If we cant sign Conan for a year or Copeland to be honest we should not bother asking established southerners to come north it is a complete and utter waste of time

McFadden, Conway, Murphy, McLaughlin, Conan, Ruddock, Ryan, Marsh have all been made good offers i.e. they don't lose out financially - all have said no.
That may not be a comprehensive list

Conan was offered the chance to come to the AP and Leicester for two years. He didn't fancy that either. Even with Geordan doing the talking. I just don't think the lad wanted to leave. He knows Heaslip isn't getting any younger.

I think people massively underestimate the value of player lifestyle. If someone loves living in Dublin the money would have to be insane to move to somewhere like Leicester or Belfast. In soccer, the money is insane, so players will live anywhere. In rugby the couple 100k difference most players would be getting for a "big move" is not worth the change in lifestyle for alot of players.

I doubt there was a couple 100k difference in wages. Tigers don't have the cap space and the pound is no longer as strong against the Euro. There is a big difference in the cost of living between areas as well, Quins fans like to point out that the salary cap dent take into account the much higher cost of living in London, similarly it's cheaper to live in Leicestershire (none of the players live in the city) than Dublin. The lifestyle is also very different when you need a car compared to city living when everything is on your doorstep.

If Conan has his heart in Dublin then fair play to him wanting to remain. He's getting game time and is in and around the Ireland squad.

He should also be looking behind him, Deegan is coming through the academy and will put him under pressure soon enough. The academy production line for back row players with potential doesn't show signs of slowing any time soon.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

wolfball wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:If we cant sign Conan for a year or Copeland to be honest we should not bother asking established southerners to come north it is a complete and utter waste of time

McFadden, Conway, Murphy, McLaughlin, Conan, Ruddock, Ryan, Marsh have all been made good offers i.e. they don't lose out financially - all have said no.
That may not be a comprehensive list

Conan was offered the chance to come to the AP and Leicester for two years. He didn't fancy that either. Even with Geordan doing the talking. I just don't think the lad wanted to leave. He knows Heaslip isn't getting any younger.

I think people massively underestimate the value of player lifestyle. If someone loves living in Dublin the money would have to be insane to move to somewhere like Leicester or Belfast. In soccer, the money is insane, so players will live anywhere. In rugby the couple 100k difference most players would be getting for a "big move" is not worth the change in lifestyle for alot of players.

I doubt there was a couple 100k difference in wages. Tigers don't have the cap space and the pound is no longer as strong against the Euro. There is a big difference in the cost of living between areas as well, Quins fans like to point out that the salary cap dent take into account the much higher cost of living in London, similarly it's cheaper to live in Leicestershire (none of the players live in the city) than Dublin. The lifestyle is also very different when you need a car compared to city living when everything is on your doorstep.

If Conan has his heart in Dublin then fair play to him wanting to remain. He's getting game time and is in and around the Ireland squad.

He should also be looking behind him, Deegan is coming through the academy and will put him under pressure soon enough.  The academy production line for back row players with potential doesn't show signs of slowing any time soon.

Perhaps we'll have more chance in tempting Deegan to Leicestershire for some development seasons. Their boss enjoyed his time here. The wealth of talent in Irish backrows is quite frightening. 

Tigers have got some good opensides coming into the senior squad but can't seem to progress a big lump through, maybe Fred Tuilagi will help that if we can ever get him fit enough.

Time for an update as I hear Leinster are signing more NIQ

Ulster sitting at - NIQ Botha, Coetzee, Piatau and Project - de Merwe
Talk of Jim Hamilton but nothing official

What is the latest update for the other provinces ?

geoff999rugby wrote:
Talk of Jim Hamilton but nothing official

That was apparently Andy Goode using Hamiltons phone on their podcast

geoff999rugby wrote:Time for an update as I hear Leinster are signing more NIQ

Ulster sitting at - NIQ Botha, Coetzee, Piatau and Project - de Merwe
Talk of Jim Hamilton but nothing official

What is the latest update for the other provinces ?

Leinster signed Scott Fardy and James Lowe over 2 months ago. They will join Isa and Gibson-Park Making 4 in Leinster. Lowe and GP are projects.

Ulster's 4 you have named your self. (I presume you mean Van der Merwe)

Munster have Projects Marshall and Klein. They are keeping Taute and will probably sign a project tight head to make their 4.

There will be a scramble to sign projects before the 31th of December

marty2086 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:
Talk of Jim Hamilton but nothing official

That was apparently Andy Goode using Hamiltons phone on their podcast

I saw that but the truth is we are, at least 1 short in the second row.

No way Henderson, Diack, AOC, Browne and Tradwell is enough
We have promising talent coming through in the Front and Back rows but that is definitely not true in the 2nd row

geoff is Donnan another one who is destined for the Championship? Is Thompson being retained?

I would not hold my breath on Donnan and I get the feeling Thompson is considered not quite ready

Isn't that the case with most? They aren't quite ready, I know there was some hope for Donnan a few years back its a pity he hasn't kicked on

Indeed disappointing but, o nthe bright side, I do believe you will see new front and backrowers.

Lutton leaving and Black leaving in 2018 suggests that in the front row.

In the backrow we have 2 Saffers with dodgy injury records plus Henry, Reidy and some would argue Ross.
We simply will be forced to give real game time to Timoney, Rea, Jones and Dow.

Is Dow not away as well?

I hesitated to add his name to that list as I wasn't sure.
Also word on young O'Connor coming has gone a bit quiet but I still believe he is coming.

.

Going back on topic with Munster recent signings can someone provide a complete NIQ and Projects list for the 4 Provinces

Leinster

Lowe 2020 NIQ until 2020
Nacewa 2018 NIE
Gibson-Park 2019 NIQ until 2019
Fardy 2019 NIE

Ulster

Deysel 2020 NIE
Piutau 2018 NIE
Van der Merwe 2020 NIQ until 2020
Cotzee 2019 NIE


Munster

Grobler 2018 NIQ until 2020
Cloete 2020 NIQ until 2020
Klein 2019 NIQ until 2019
Taute 2019 NIE
Marshal 2019 NIQ until 2019
Bleyendaal 2018 NIQ until 2018

Name/contracted til/status

Is Marshall not NIE as he has played for the Kiwi Under 20's and they are the named 2nd team ?
Also Bleydaal NIQ till November, I think

Thanks very much for the info
Ulster data is out of date though - Botha not coming and has been replaced by Deysel

Anyone know Connacht players ?

geoff999rugby wrote:Is Marshall not NIE as he has played for the Kiwi Under 20's and they are the named 2nd team ?
Also Bleydaal NIQ till November, I think

Thanks very much for the info
Ulster data is out of date though - Botha not coming and has been replaced by Deysel

Anyone know Connacht players ?

Connacht have Aki and McCartney becoming IQ. They currently only have 3 x NIQ Dawai, Boshoff and Ili.

Bleyendaal is not IQ until January.

Sorry about Deysel will update. Are you not keeping Van Der Merwe also? Obviously not.

Mad that Munster have 5 project players and Ulster have Zero.

Mightn't all be signed as projects, Groblers only signed for a year so might not stay beyond that

marty2086 wrote:Mightn't all be signed as projects, Groblers only signed for a year so might not stay beyond that

nonetheless he is a player capable of qualifying for Ireland by 2020.

sorry I forgot to answer on Marshall. he is defo capable of qualifying for ireland. the Junior all blacks are the 2nd team for NZ. (the u20s are the baby blacks) they have not played a game in years

Thanks for the further update

We are keeping de Merwe - Ulster will be 3+1 next year

Been told there will be no replacement for Piatau next year so could be down to 2+1 for 18-19

geoff999rugby wrote:Thanks for the further update

We are keeping de Merwe

Yeah. My mistake again. Sorry I will update again.

PS. Why do you call Van der Merwe "de Merwe" A bit like calling McLaughlin "Laughlin"

Also makes my statement about Ulster having no project players wrong. I knew it looked funny

name is an error.

Not seen him live yet so his name isn't part of my DNA yet

St John The Enforcer wrote:Leinster

Lowe 2020 NIQ until 2020
Nacewa 2018 NIE
Gibson-Park 2019 NIQ until 2019

Name/contracted til/status

Lowe has five caps for NZ Maori, doesn't that count as the NZ second team and mean he can't switch international allegiance?

Each country has a designated 2nd team don't think it is the Maoris

Mentioned above it is the Junior AB

geoff999rugby wrote:Each country has a designated 2nd team don't think it is the Maoris

Mentioned above it is the Junior AB

Ah makes sense.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Each country has a designated 2nd team don't think it is the Maoris

Mentioned above it is the Junior AB

Ah makes sense.

The Junior All Blacks are considered New Zealand's 'second XV' after the Test side, with no age or genealogy restrictions other than the player being eligible for international selection.

The first such team played under the guise of an Under 23 team, with future All Blacks legend Sir Wilson Whineray captaining a squad to Japan in 1958, with this age-grade side playing their last match in 1984.

The Junior All Blacks, who first played officially in 2005, claimed titles in the 2006, 2007 and 2009 World Rugby Pacific Nations Cup – the latter of which was the last time the squad assembled.

For official purposes this team is not considered defunct, any future information regarding the Junior All Blacks will be revealed on allblacks.com