England training squad this week

First topic message reminder :

Brothers Vunipola missing, as is Joe Launchbury. Mike Williams back in with yet another chance to break his arm. Various other players who missed the AI also back. Beeb picks up on Nathan Catt's inclusion also

Tuilagi back in. Given his current physical state I am just hoping that its not kill or cure, or that Jones doesn't give up on him given he's probably not fully fit yet. Usual 2 scrum halves, Alex Lozowski also in for more experience.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38477218

Forwards: Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Tommy Taylor (Wasps), Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).

Backs: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

beshocked wrote:Think Scotland have a higher chance of beating Ireland than England personally.

If Scotland are going to cause a shock that's the one I'd go for.

They have a good chance in Murrayfield alright although unlike England Ireland tend to hammer Scotland a bit more lately. I suspect Scotland raise their game against England a bit more.

If you think England are favourites it means you think they will win the championship guns. You don't believe they are favourites though, you have them down for at least 2 defeats.

No 7&1/2 wrote:If you think England are favourites it means you think they will win the championship guns. You don't believe they are favourites though, you have them down for at least 2 defeats.

I don't think they are favourites, they are favourites. That's why it will be an upset if Scotland win, which I think will happen. I think it is a good bet for this year.

In a similar sort of way I backed Ireland to beat England in the six nations after they won the world cup and SA to lose to Ireland in the November series after the world cup. Both were heavy favourites but I thought they would lose and they did. It often happens to teams who have been on a long winning streak when least expected.

ABs against Ireland in Nov for example. I didnt back Ireland then though.

So you don't have England as favourites. You presumably have Ireland?

It's a good bet? Really? Scotland have history against them, as well as form and will be playing away from home?

Also it's not exactly as if England will be rusty as it's not the first game.

I'd say if England are going to be shocked by anyone it will be the French in the first game.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So you don't have England as favourites.  You presumably have Ireland?

I don't think I have claimed anyone will win the championship yet. Not that I can remember.

I think France, England, Ireland and Wales are all in the hunt. France looked very good in their last test against NZ, Ireland and England had good November series and Wales can never be judged on their Nov series because they tend to raise their game in the 6N.

You said you considered England favs on another thread. I don't think England stand a chance if they lose twice.

beshocked wrote:It's a good bet? Really? Scotland have history against them, as well as form and will be playing away from home?

Also it's not exactly as if England will be rusty as it's not the first game.

I'd say if England are going to be shocked by anyone it will be the French in the first game.

No one will see it coming. Except me.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You said you considered England favs on another thread. I don't think England stand a chance if they lose twice.

England are favorites not the same as saying I think they will win the championship. I wouldnt be surprised if they dont.

Just not your favourites. Indeed as you've said they ll lose to Ireland and Scotland you'll be surprised if they get anywhere near the title.

Pretty sure you predicted Ireland to beat England at Twickenham in 2014 and 2016. They didn't....

Twickenham isn't an easy place to come. Wary of the French though because sometimes they like to rip up the script. The most difficult side to predict at times.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just not your favourites. Indeed as you've said they ll lose to Ireland and Scotland you'll be surprised if they get anywhere near the title.

Not necessarly. With BPs two losses could win the championship.

beshocked wrote:Pretty sure you predicted Ireland to beat England at Twickenham in 2014 and 2016. They didn't....

Twickenham isn't an easy place to come. Wary of the French though because sometimes they like to rip up the script. The most difficult side to predict at times.

and in 2015 and they did.

'14 and '16 were fairly close, particularly '14. Anomalies happen all the time.

This year Ireland are at home too and that should make the difference. Best thing about Ireland v England games is Wayne Barnes cant ref them too.

Predictions then guns. Think I'm leaning slightly to back to back gs. Pressure on at loose head though.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Predictions then guns. Think I'm leaning slightly to back to back gs. Pressure on at loose head though.

Scotland Grand Slam. Actually Scotland to win championship. No slam.

Seriously though?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Seriously though?

I dont think England will get a slam. It will come down to points on the last day between 3-4 sides.

Prediction?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Prediction?

I gave you two already

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

beshocked wrote:Pretty sure you predicted Ireland to beat England at Twickenham in 2014 and 2016. They didn't....

Twickenham isn't an easy place to come. Wary of the French though because sometimes they like to rip up the script. The most difficult side to predict at times.

and in 2015 and they did.

'14 and '16 were fairly close, particularly '14. Anomalies happen all the time.

This year Ireland are at home too and that should make the difference. Best thing about Ireland v England games is Wayne Barnes cant ref them too.

You are right. Ireland winning was something of a anomaly but Ireland were at home.

This year Ireland will start at favourites despite their poor record vs England in the last few matches. Only 1 win in 7.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

beshocked wrote:Think Scotland have a higher chance of beating Ireland than England personally.

If Scotland are going to cause a shock that's the one I'd go for.

They have a good chance in Murrayfield alright although unlike England Ireland tend to hammer Scotland a bit more lately. I suspect Scotland raise their game against England a bit more.

In the last 4 years England and Ireland have an identical record vs Scotland in terms of points difference (+58 in both their favours). If I've done my maths right Both sides have two 20+ points wins in that period and two closer games (one of which was an Irish loss). Nothing in it really. Sorry Scotland

Your first was a joke the 2nd you basically said you can't predict. Fair enough I'd you have nt a scooby.

beshocked wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

beshocked wrote:Pretty sure you predicted Ireland to beat England at Twickenham in 2014 and 2016. They didn't....

Twickenham isn't an easy place to come. Wary of the French though because sometimes they like to rip up the script. The most difficult side to predict at times.

and in 2015 and they did.

'14 and '16 were fairly close, particularly '14. Anomalies happen all the time.

This year Ireland are at home too and that should make the difference. Best thing about Ireland v England games is Wayne Barnes cant ref them too.

You are right. Ireland winning was something of a anomaly but Ireland were at home.

This year Ireland will start at favourites despite their poor record vs England in the last few matches. Only 1 win in 7.

Did you know Ireland have defeated England more times than any other team in the world except Wales?

Our winning % is much higher vs Ireland than Wales - both overall and in the last few years.

We have played you the 3rd most amount after Wales and Scotland.

Wouldn't want to see the loss statistics if we played NZ or SA over 100 times.

beshocked wrote:Our winning % is much higher vs Ireland than Wales - both overall and in the last few years.

We have played you the 3rd most amount after Wales and Scotland.

Wouldn't want to see the loss statistics if we played NZ or SA over 100 times.

Still wins on the board. They all count.

I think if Ireland and England played NZ more often we would also beat them more often. I wouldnt worry about SA Ireland have a very good record against them lately. England's is terrible alright though.

I know it's why Irish fans have been shouting from the rooftops about the NZ win. Fair enough. We did it when we beat them in 2012. Beating NZ is impressive.

Still a long way for all us sides to go to topple NZ.

Of course Ireland are a good side. I just think at Twickenham they are more than likely to lose. Luckily you are playing us in Ireland this year.

England should not dwell too much on Ireland in Ireland though. Need to be completely prepared for the French.

Well England's record in Ireland is actually better than it is in Twickenham aparently however, I reckon we will have the edge in Dublin.

Ill be at the game. I have only seen England beat Ireland 1 out of 6 or 7 games I have attended including two wins in Twickers. Are you going?

Isn't it 6/7 in favour of England over Ireland recently? I didn't realise we were so dominant

Cyril wrote:Isn't it 6/7 in favour of England over Ireland recently? I didn't realise we were so dominant

I always think too much is read into recent trends. While it is indicative of the past, "the future has yet to be written"*

Sure Since the 2011 RWC England have won 6 of 7 against Ireland, while between RWC 2003 and 11 England won just 1 of 9. All close to meaningless come MArch when form and fitness through teh spring will be far more relevant.





*Dr Emmett Brown

LondonTiger wrote:

Cyril wrote:Isn't it 6/7 in favour of England over Ireland recently? I didn't realise we were so dominant

I always think too much is read into recent trends. While it is indicative of the past, "the future has yet to be written"*

Sure Since the 2011 RWC England have won 6 of 7 against Ireland, while between RWC 2003 and 11 England won just 1 of 9. All close to meaningless come MArch when form and fitness through teh spring will be far more relevant.





*Dr Emmett Brown

Aye, it's just a bit of fun

The future may be unwritten but Guns is convinced that Barnes has already drafted the Wales/Ireland script...

Cyril wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Cyril wrote:Isn't it 6/7 in favour of England over Ireland recently? I didn't realise we were so dominant

I always think too much is read into recent trends. While it is indicative of the past, "the future has yet to be written"*

Sure Since the 2011 RWC England have won 6 of 7 against Ireland, while between RWC 2003 and 11 England won just 1 of 9. All close to meaningless come MArch when form and fitness through teh spring will be far more relevant.





*Dr Emmett Brown

Aye, it's just a bit of fun

The future may be unwritten but Guns is convinced that Barnes has already drafted the Wales/Ireland script...

Barnes is an android pre-programmed to be biased against non-British sides.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Cyril wrote:Isn't it 6/7 in favour of England over Ireland recently? I didn't realise we were so dominant

I always think too much is read into recent trends. While it is indicative of the past, "the future has yet to be written"*

Sure Since the 2011 RWC England have won 6 of 7 against Ireland, while between RWC 2003 and 11 England won just 1 of 9. All close to meaningless come MArch when form and fitness through teh spring will be far more relevant.





*Dr Emmett Brown

Aye, it's just a bit of fun

The future may be unwritten but Guns is convinced that Barnes has already drafted the Wales/Ireland script...

Barnes is an android pre-programmed to be biased against non-British sides.

Pre-programmed in Monmouth no less. Welsh engineering.

When is the English squad announced?
Or the reduced 6N squad?

propdavid_london wrote:When is the English squad announced?  
Or the reduced 6N squad?

tomorrow (Friday). Then probably changed after injuries at the weekend.