6N 2017: Scotland v Ireland, 4 February

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SCOTLAND v IRELAND 
4 February 2017
KO: 14:25
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: Jaco Peyper (South Africa) and Nick Briant (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand

Live on BBC, RTE, DMAX, FR2, ITV (H)

A. Head to Head

132 Played 132
66 Won 61 
5 Drawn 5
61 Lost 66
1,380 Points 1,475

B. Recent Form

19 March 2016
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
35 – 25 to Ireland

15 August 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28 – 22 to Ireland

21 March 2015
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
10 – 40 to Ireland

2 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28 – 6 to Ireland

24 February 2013
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
12 – 8 to Scotland

10 March 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
32 – 14 to Ireland

6 August 2011
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 6 to Scotland

27 February 2011
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
18 – 21 to Ireland

20 March 2010
Croke Park, Dublin
20 – 23 to Scotland

C. Teams

SCOTLAND 

15-Stuart Hogg; 14-Sean Maitland, 13-Huw Jones, 12-Alex Dunbar, 11-Tommy Seymour; 10-Finn Russell, 9-Greig Laidlaw (capt); 1-Allan Dell, 2-Fraser Brown, 3-Zander Fagerson, 4-Richie Gray, 5-Jonny Gray, 6-Ryan Wilson, 7-Hamish Watson, 8-Josh Strauss

Replacements: 16-Ross Ford, 17-Gordon Reid, 18-Simon Berghan, 19-Tim Swinson, 20-John Barclay, 21-Ali Price, 22-Duncan Weir, 23-Mark Bennett

IRELAND

15-Rob Kearney; 14-Keith Earls, 13-Robbie Henshaw, 12-Garry Ringrose, 11-Simon Zebo; 10-Paddy Jackson, 9-Conor Murray; 1-Jack McGrath, 2-Rory Best (captain), 3-Tadhg Furlong, 4-Iain Henderson, 5-Devin Toner, 6-CJ Stander, 7-Sean O'Brien, 8-Jamie Heaslip

Replacements: 16-Niall Scannell, 17-Cian Healy, 18-John Ryan, 19-Ultan Dillane, 20-Josh van der Flier, 21-Kieran Marmion, 22-Ian Keatley, 23-Tommy Bowe.

cakeordeath wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I don't see why there are a couple of posters trying to turn the thread into something it isn't. Things have been rather relaxed so far, let's keep it that way. As far as I can see the Irish fans have been congratulating Scotland on their well earned win.

Don't take out your frustrations with Irish analysts or pundits on the posters.

I am not sure if that comment is aimed at me, but I do know the difference between Irish supporters and the Irish media

I'd imagine its aimed more at this:

Anglobraveheart wrote:Why that wasn't a yellow against Ireland near the end is beyond me. No doubt if it was the other way round, the green gobsh1tes would be debating it for the next 2 weeks at least.
How ultimately satisfying to see Murray and Earls on the losing side today.
We could have played so much better, and plenty room for improvement, but the boys were magnificent, and it's so sweet to get one over on the gobby guys in green.
Lovely to knock the great big chips off of both their shoulders.

and I completely agree with Rory, the Irish fans have been brilliant. Who gives a toss if a few characters in the media have been making some noise, its what they are paid to do after all. Don't let that take away from a cracking game where both sides were giving it their all chasing the win. You can't ask for a side to show their opposition more respect than Ireland did by coming out in that second half and turning the game on its head, very nearly walking away with a victory. Fair play to both sides on an exceptionally exciting game of rugby in this case, and lets not make unnecessary drama out of nothing

Woke up this morning hoping it was Saturday and a ball still hadn't been kicked.

Watched the game again and my god Scotland were excellent in that first 40. Possibly the most clinical 40mins from a Scotland side I have seen in many years and I do feel they left a TBP out there. Ireland simply could not live with them, quality rugby.

The second half, Ireland were on top in just about every aspect and when they took the lead, I expected Scotland to perform their normal capitulation and Ireland to run away with it but Scotland showed amazing composure and game management to up the tempo and win the match.

Normally I am a grumpy old feic after a loss but I am extremely happy for the Scottish fans on here, its been a long time coming and ye have always conducted yourself with grace on this forum so enjoy the win lads, ye deserve it

eirebilly wrote:Woke up this morning hoping it was Saturday and a ball still hadn't been kicked.

Watched the game again and my god Scotland were excellent in that first 40. Possibly the most clinical 40mins from a Scotland side I have seen in many years and I do feel they left a TBP out there. Ireland simply could not live with them, quality rugby.

The second half, Ireland were on top in just about every aspect and when they took the lead, I expected Scotland to perform their normal capitulation and Ireland to run away with it but Scotland showed amazing composure and game management to up the tempo and win the match.

Normally I am a grumpy old feic after a loss but I am extremely happy for the Scottish fans on here, its been a long time coming and ye have always conducted yourself with grace on this forum so enjoy the win lads, ye deserve it

Well said, eirebilly.

I think that game was a foreshadowing of how the Scotland - Wales match will go; an established team going through their routine shell-shocked by rampant Scotland in the first half, then opening up in the second, only to fall short. I only hope I can be a gracious in defeat as you.

Just saying it as I see it rumple. Best of luck to your Welsh lads today. Italy will be up for the game and come flying at the Welsh but I think yiz will win by 2 scores.

For the next match, I would love to see the following :

6 : POM
7 : v/d Flier
8 : CJ

I think that would provide better balance and lineout stability.

In the backs, it may be time to give another winger a shot to replace Earls (Gilroy?) with him dropping to the bench and Bowe out of the match day squad.

Ill be really dissapointed if Hogg and Russell arent Lions test starters. Hogg is easily the best fullback in the NH.

Scotland for the six nations (if they sort out front row)

Not that disapointed to lose to Scotland. Less annoying than the NZ game in Dublin.

The reason it doesnt hurt because Scotland out thought and out played Ireland. Despite the hype in the build up as expected there were no cheap tactics just really smart rugby which expolited Irelands most obvious weaknesses, the lineout and defense out wide. Scotlands pack really stepped it up and bossed Ireland in the first half. Some clever moves such as the Dunbar try sealed the deal. No complaints whatsoever, enjoyable game. Hope Scotland can back it up but Ill be aannoyed if Ireland dont beat Scotland at home next year.

The Irish thirteen channel was an obvious target for the scots given the absence of Payne in that defensive role. What surprised was how narrow their line was, making it easy for Russell to complete the misspass which isolated either Irish winger.
Farnell Snr must be pretty unhappy.

George Carlin wrote:...

The fact that this thread remains essentially free from wumm juice being sprayed around is, in a nutshell, why most people in the world like Scots and Irish people. If we tend to get a bit over the top, you have to forgive Scottish fans who have been waiting quite a long time for a good result.

...

From a grumpy English perspective I'd say that relatively speaking the Scots fans here are the best. The Irish are often brilliant up to (depending on the result) the final whistle.

I think its very interesting that the good humor has stayed with us this game

eirebilly wrote:Woke up this morning hoping it was Saturday and a ball still hadn't been kicked.

Watched the game again and my god Scotland were excellent in that first 40. Possibly the most clinical 40mins from a Scotland side I have seen in many years and I do feel they left a TBP out there. Ireland simply could not live with them, quality rugby.

The second half, Ireland were on top in just about every aspect and when they took the lead, I expected Scotland to perform their normal capitulation and Ireland to run away with it but Scotland showed amazing composure and game management to up the tempo and win the match.

Normally I am a grumpy old feic after a loss but I am extremely happy for the Scottish fans on here, its been a long time coming and ye have always conducted yourself with grace on this forum so enjoy the win lads, ye deserve it

Well said

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Not that disapointed to lose to Scotland. Less annoying than the NZ game in Dublin.

The reason it doesnt hurt because Scotland out thought and out played Ireland. Despite the hype in the build up as expected there were no cheap tactics just really smart rugby which expolited Irelands most obvious weaknesses, the lineout and defense out wide. Scotlands pack really stepped it up and bossed Ireland in the first half. Some clever moves such as the Dunbar try sealed the deal. No complaints whatsoever, enjoyable game. Hope Scotland can back it up but Ill be aannoyed if Ireland dont beat Scotland at home next year.

Agree with all of that (and Billy above)

It has been overdue for Scotland to turn narrow losses into victories, but building on this won't be easy. In some ways being away to France next Sunday is the perfect fixture as there will still be no expectation on them for a result. They need to find a solution to the scrum in particular.
For me Russell didn't have a stellar game, but he is absolutely critical to Scotland's tournament. I got the impression he was being hidden a bit in defence and it is worrying that yet again he had to go off for a HIA.

cakeordeath wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I don't see why there are a couple of posters trying to turn the thread into something it isn't. Things have been rather relaxed so far, let's keep it that way. As far as I can see the Irish fans have been congratulating Scotland on their well earned win.

Don't take out your frustrations with Irish analysts or pundits on the posters.

I am not sure if that comment is aimed at me, but I do know the difference between Irish supporters and the Irish media

No, it wasn't aimed at you. Promise.

An excellent game from start to finish, Scotland were fantastic in the first half and did so well not to capitulate when the Irish found their form in the second half.
Refreshing to read a thread where fans of the losing side are so gracious in defeat

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Ill be really dissapointed if Hogg and Russell arent Lions test starters. Hogg is easily the best fullback in the NH.

Scotland for the six nations (if they sort out front row)

REALLY? I can see Hog being a starter for the Lions. But Russell? not so sure to be honest.

Think if Sexton returns to match fitness and takes part in the rest of the 6ns he will probably be the starting 10 for the Lions. With a Farrell being next in line incase Sexton gets injured...Like i said Hog, deffo in my opinion. Russell? May be may be not.

Agreed on Russell - he's critical to Scotland but he's not Lions quality - yet.

He'd make a good attacking option as a midweek 10 but I don't think that's enough to justify his selection for the tour.

First of all, I guess we could see Scotland was due a big win in the Six nations sooner or later. And good for them - a stronger Scotland, long overdue, is better for Rugby, certainly for the 4 Lions nations. Hogg is an incredibly talented attacker, not just a runner, and can change games in the blink of an eye. So much more talent across the team compared to previous years. Great to see.

Thought both teams looked very good at times yesterday, two very impressive teams contributing to a good match for a neutral.

Surprised Scotland won, after so often falling short in the tight ones, but a well deserved win. Really sets them up for the Championship as well. France away won't be easy, but if they can get enough ball their backs can definitely hurt France.

I wish I could blame the ref, the weather, an injury crisis or even Ireland not turning up but I have nothing. Being beaten by the better side never offers excuses to moan about so well done Scotland. You were so good I might even have felt bad if we'd nicked it at the end.

majesticimperialman wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Ill be really dissapointed if Hogg and Russell arent Lions test starters. Hogg is easily the best fullback in the NH.

Scotland for the six nations (if they sort out front row)

REALLY?  I can see Hog being a starter for the Lions. But Russell? not so sure to be honest.

Think if Sexton returns to match fitness and takes part in the rest of the 6ns he will probably be the starting 10 for the Lions. With a Farrell being next in line incase Sexton gets injured...Like i said Hog, deffo in my opinion. Russell? May be may be not.

Sexton is too injury prone. He has serious issues so I wouldnt bring him at all.

Farrrell is a 12 for me. Id start Russell at 10and maybe Farrell at 12.

majesticimperialman wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Ill be really dissapointed if Hogg and Russell arent Lions test starters. Hogg is easily the best fullback in the NH.

REALLY?  I can see Hog being a starter for the Lions. But Russell? not so sure to be honest.

.

I don't think Russell is ready and not sure he is the right type of player anyway despite the great display. He needs familiar players around him to shine and thats not a luxury he would get for the lions.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Id start Russell at 10and maybe Farrell at 12.

Good grief no.

TJ wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Id start Russell at 10and maybe Farrell at 12.

 Good grief no.  

+1

As good as he is for Scotland, he is not yet of Lions quality. Sexton, if fit is the number 1 followed by Biggar and Farrell. I would even have Ford ahead of him in the pecking order.

No slight on him as a player but just do not think he is there yet.

Also, a lot is being made (rightly so) of Gray's defence yesterday but what about Hamish Watson... He made 16 tackles in the short time he was on. I thought he was massive in defence for Scotland early on.

eirebilly wrote:Also, a lot is being made (rightly so) of Gray's defence yesterday but what about Hamish Watson... He made 16 tackles in the short time he was on. I thought he was massive in defence for Scotland early on.

Pound for pound he must be one of the most physical players in the 6N - he's small for an international back row but feck me he's an animal!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Also, a lot is being made (rightly so) of Gray's defence yesterday but what about Hamish Watson... He made 16 tackles in the short time he was on. I thought he was massive in defence for Scotland early on.

Pound for pound he must be one of the most physical players in the 6N - he's small for an international back row but feck me he's an animal!

Honestly thought he was the difference between the two sides in the early exchanges. Ireland probably would have scored at least one try if he wasn't so bleedin massive in defence in the first 20.

Did Watson get injured yesterday? He was absolutely fantastic when he was on, his ability to make ground through bigger players is exceptional.

I think he'd just put his absolute all into the game and was tiring - it was the right call because Barclay made a big impact.

Watson definitely owns the shirt now and will start next week. I was worried when he went off, as I did not see Strauss lasting the full 80 either, but bringing Swinson on in the back row sorted that one.

Both Grays have massive engines and never really need subbing unless injured.

When he was rehabbing prior to the last Lions tour, they put Ritchie on the static rowing machine and found that he had the potential to be an international oarsman, which is one tough sport!

My guess is Watson knew he would be subbed so just went flat out for 50 mins. Preplanned tactic. Its his shirt now for sure.

Just about sobered up after yesterday's exertions. What a game of rugby that was and absolutely delighted that we seem to be able to close games out now. I've always been a critic of Laidlaw and the slow ball but he showed real leadership yesterday.

Completely agree with Guscott's post-match comment in that the result means nothin unless we back it up against France next week.

Congratulations to Scotland on a very good and well deserved win. Keep it up next week now.

I'm disappointed with Ireland, but a lot of stuff is fixable so hopefully they will learn from this.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Scotland totally deserved the win and should probably be disappointed they left the bonus point behind. We were totally out of sorts. Leaving Ryan out was clearly a bad selection error as our second row were completely ineffectual. SOB is a one trick pony and vdf should have started. We missed  POM for both the line out and a bit of dog around the park. Some players look past their sell by date and some still a bit wet behind the ears. Could be they were believing the hype before the game started. No point beating the ABs in November when you can't do well in your bread and butter tournament...

Ryan has a knee injury.  He would have started otherwise.  You're right though about the second row being ineffectual though, and the backrow - Scotland got far cleaner ball for most of the game.  I thought the back three were very disappointing, especially in defence.  Scotland were better all over the park. The front row and Jackson (magnificent) were the only ones to really outplay their opposite numbers.

I think ohallarhan or Byrne need to start in our back 3

Couldn't see why O'Halloran wasn't on the bench yesterday. Offers far more cover than Bowe. Is Zebo injured? He didn't look like the fastest back in the country.

Engine#4 wrote:Couldn't see why O'Halloran wasn't on the bench yesterday.  Offers far more cover than Bowe.  Is Zebo injured? He didn't look like the fastest back in the country.

I thought that at the end of the first half, he had a chance to stretch his legs and run clear but he kicked ahead. Very odd for him to do that as he normally backs himself.

eirebilly wrote:

Engine#4 wrote:Couldn't see why O'Halloran wasn't on the bench yesterday.  Offers far more cover than Bowe.  Is Zebo injured? He didn't look like the fastest back in the country.

I thought that at the end of the first half, he had a chance to stretch his legs and run clear but he kicked ahead. Very odd for him to do that as he normally backs himself.

I know I expected him to pin the ears back and go

Good news on the injury front - all players are expected to be fit for next weekend.

Surprised that Jonny and zoozander aren't still breathing out their backsides! Massive shift from both yesterday

Well, what can you say?

Ireland lost because Scotland won.  Congratulations to Scotland.  They realised that the 6N starts from the first whistle not the second or third game.  Great intensity of spirit and off-the-cuff smartness from Scotland.  A team like Ireland should have been able to cope with that better though.  That, yet again, Ireland drift so easily away from their presumed top form in the blink of an eye is now more than frustrating.
I'm tiring of these habitual restarts of potent form and then back to subnormal efforts.  My coachometer has finally gone from green to orange - gotta admit it.  Getting caught out on the fringes again kills us and that was a bad habit back in the World Cup and should have been addressed by now.

Pace, Pace, Pace.  Ireland back to being a 'which half will we use our energy in?' team.    
Some say it's all fixable.  Well, it always is, isn't it.  Four bad games, one sensationally great game.  Ireland back to being their predictable selves - maybe they're saving their 'Great' game of the 6N season for England this year?

What's pace? I don't think that's an Irish term.

I have to agree though. Our usual "big" game of the year always involves us winning the collisions and the contact area. That is probably why we can only do it a couple of times a year. We don't have the guile to do anything else.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:What's pace? I don't think that's an Irish term.

I have to agree though. Our usual "big" game of the year always involves us winning the collisions and the contact area. That is probably why we can only do it a couple of times a year. We don't have the guile to do anything else.

How good was this match yesterday!!? I was on edge after reading so much build up press, podcasts etc, and in the end it was just a brilliant brilliant test match. Two teams with strengths in different areas.

I think this is one of those games where the statistics make no sense. Scotland missed 32 tackles and suffered 12 line breaks yet their defence was excellent overall. They had only 42% possession and even less territory yet when they had their chances in the first half they really cranked up the tempo and took them! The passing was on another level to previous Scotland games.

Considering Scotland made over 100 more tackles than Ireland, they weathered the Irish storm as best they could and by the final 5 mins there were huge gaps on the field where Ireland were struggling to cover defence.

For all the talk of Munster/Glasgow, the standing leg tackle controversy etc, there was a lovely moment where Maitland and Zebo acknowledged each others brilliant efforts with a slap of hands, really great sportsmanship.

There are obvious problems that need to be addressed for Scotland, ie the scrum!! Had it been wet Scotland would have been romped in this area and every other team take encouragement from this. Luckily by holding on to the ball they got the backline purring.

France vs Scotland - if it's dry it could be another beauty!

bsando wrote:How good was this match yesterday!!? I was on edge after reading so much build up press, podcasts etc, and in the end it was just a brilliant brilliant test match. Two teams with strengths in different areas.

I think this is one of those games where the statistics make no sense. Scotland missed 32 tackles and suffered 12 line breaks yet their defence was excellent overall. They had only 42% possession and even less territory yet when they had their chances in the first half they really cranked up the tempo and took them! The passing was on another level to previous Scotland games.

Considering Scotland made over 100 more tackles than Ireland, they weathered the Irish storm as best they could and by the final 5 mins there were huge gaps on the field where Ireland were struggling to cover defence.

For all the talk of Munster/Glasgow, the standing leg tackle controversy etc, there was a lovely moment where Maitland and Zebo acknowledged each others brilliant efforts with a slap of hands, really great sportsmanship.

There are obvious problems that need to be addressed for Scotland, ie the scrum!! Had it been wet Scotland would have been romped in this area and every other team take encouragement from this. Luckily by holding on to the ball they got the backline purring.

France vs Scotland - if it's dry it could be another beauty!

I agree, though Scotland are never afraid of Ireland.
At times the 6 NAtions is a strange rock, paper, scissors game. Scotland don't fear Ireland. Ireland don't fear Wales, and Wales don't fear Scotland.

I don't think Scotland or anybody should ever fear Ireland.  We're not good enough and haven't been good enough to have anything like that kind of reputation.  We just have some games where we just throw the kitchen  sink of intensity at a game and it doesn't matter who shows up, they can't cope.
But I don't think it's based of Excellence in any particular part of the field on a consistent basis.  We're up, we're down, we're all over the place on tempo control; we have certain players that ain't gonna win any sprinting contests so we're always liable to be stretched by a team with the tools to stretch us.
 
Most of the 6N teams have those tools.  If Ireland doesn't turn up ready to fully beat the bejasus out of opposition then certainly our skill levels aren't enough on their own.  As Rory said, our brand of rugby needs full-on belligerent throttle for the 80.

Ireland are good enough. Yesterday they were simply undone by a Scotland side on fire in the first 40mins. I would say that not many sides would have lived with Scotland in that first 40 mins. It happens in games sometimes but Ireland did hit back and play the way they can do in the second half so that to me alone says that Ireland are not a bad side.

Just full credit to Scotland on a massive performance yesterday. They showed far more composure and hunger to win the game. Scottish players and fans can and should be very proud of that performance yesterday

Ireland aren't good enough.

Each to their own then Fly. I just think that it is slightly dis-respectful towards the Scottish team and fans to make a blanket statement like 'Ireland aren't good enough' when they were clearly destroyed by an excellent first half performance by Scotland yesterday.

eirebilly wrote:Each to their own then Fly. I just think that it is slightly dis-respectful towards the Scottish team and fans to make a blanket statement like 'Ireland aren't good enough' when they were clearly destroyed by an excellent first half performance by Scotland yesterday.

It's not disrespectful at all, Billy.  Scotland are good enough to beat us - have been for perhaps the last three years or so.  Scotland play a more consistently good brand of high tempo-offloading, opportunistic rugby than we consistently do.  

'Consistent' is Again the operative word that we again have to return to when discussing Ireland.  It was only a few days ago that I was trying to psyche myself up into thinking those day Might actually be gone now  for the next four or five years.  I thought we were learning how to be consistently pumped and ready for serious battle.  We weren't.  We build up to our Big games, Scotland are consistently hot.  You do like their coach for a reason....

No disrespect at all - my attitude would be that it's disrespectful to them to say they had to play out of their skins to beat us.

eirebilly wrote:Also, a lot is being made (rightly so) of Gray's defence yesterday but what about Hamish Watson... He made 16 tackles in the short time he was on. I thought he was massive in defence for Scotland early on.

It wasn't long ago that a lot of people were questioning whether Watson is too small to play international rugby. I don't think thats something that will come up in conversation much after his performance yesterday! Get the right ball carriers around him in the pack and he's a fantastic asset, who's going to pick up a lot of caps in the future. Great wee player!

Tattie Scones, really hope you see this, so thrilled your Scotland winning ratio has doubled!!!!