6N 2017: England v France, 4 February

by **George Carlin** Thu 19 Jan 2017, 11:14 am

First topic message reminder :

6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 9 Englan11

6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 9 France11

ENGLAND v FRANCE
4 February 2017
KO: 16:50
Twickenham, London

Live on ITV, FR2, RTE, DMAX, BBC (H)

Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Touch judges: Glen Jackson (New Zealand) & Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)
TMO: Peter Fitzgibbon (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

102 Played 102
56 Won 39
7 Drawn 7
39 Lost 56
1623 Points 1290

B. Recent Form

19 March 2016
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
21 – 31 to England

22 August 2015
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
25 – 20 to France

15 August 2015
Twickenham, London
19 – 14 to England

21 March 2015
Twickenham, London
55 – 35 to England

1 February 2014
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
26 – 24 to France

C. Teams

ENGLAND
6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 9 Mary-b10

6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 9 Mary-b10

15-Mike Brown; 14-Jonny May, 13-Jonathan Joseph, 12-Owen Farrell, 11-Elliot Daly; 10-George Ford, 9-Ben Youngs; 1-Joe Marler, 2-Dylan Hartley (captain), 3-Dan Cole, 4-Joe Launchbury, 5-Courtney Lawes, 6-Maro Itoje, 7-Tom Wood, 8-Nathan Hughes

Replacements: 16-Jamie George, 17-Matt Mullan, 18-Kyle Sinckler 19-Teimana Harrison, 20-James Haskell, 21-Danny Care, 22-Ben Te'o, 23-Jack Nowell

FRANCE
6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 9 Raymon10

6N 2017: England v France, 4 February - Page 9 Raymon10

15-Scott Spedding; 14-Noa Nakaitaci, 13-Remi Lamerat, 12-Gael Fickou, 11-Virimi Vakatawa; 10-Camille Lopez, 9-Baptiste Serin; 1-Cyril Baille, 2-Guilhem Guirado (captain), 3-Uini Atonio, 4-Sebastien Vahaamahina, 5-Yoann Maestri, 6-Damien Chouly, 7-Kevin Gourdon, 8-Louis Picamoles

Replacements: 16-Clement Maynadier, 17-Rabah Slimani, 18-Xavier Chiocci, 19-Arthur Iturria, 20-Loann Goujon, 21-Maxime Machenaud, 22-Jean Marc Doussain, 23-Yoann Huget

by Gooseberry Sun 05 Feb 2017, 12:40 pm

Hoonercat wrote:
Barney McGrew did it wrote:Given the approximate parity of possession & position, these stats tell a large part of England's problems yesterday:

England France
50% Possession 50%
57% Territory 43%
99 (24) Tackles made (missed) 85 (13)
383 Metres made 591

Too little carrying and almost pub team level tackling. Against a side that can finish better than France we could be in trouble unless we sort this.

We appear to have done away with low, hard tackling in favour of standing up straight and hugging the opposition to the ground. Any French player coming into the game with a knock would have left the field feeling much better after 80 minutes of being massaged gently.
Worrying, given how strict refs are now on high tackles and head contact.

Note the number of times low tackles failed to have any impact at all ( twice in one run on picamoles) and the number of yellow cards they earned. There's a reason why rugby as a whole has moved away from them.

by lostinwales Sun 05 Feb 2017, 12:47 pm

On the plus side there was the tackle that Farrell did on Picamoles. Front on and held him up. I think it led to a turnover and was a nice retort following getting handed off by Spedding(?)

I do think France are a particularly physical team. The other teams we meet in this championship will offer plenty of other challenges but we are not going to have to deal with a bigger team again.

by Gwlad Sun 05 Feb 2017, 4:24 pm

Just watched Eddie's post match, he's turning into a rather large plum. Makes Gatland look positively restrained.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 05 Feb 2017, 4:57 pm

Gwlad wrote:Just watched Eddie's post match, he's turning into a rather large plum. Makes Gatland look positively restrained.

14/14.

by kingelderfield Sun 05 Feb 2017, 5:05 pm

England's performance should and I think will improve.

I was disappointed with the wings selection. Obviously Watson's injury opened up the opportunity for May, though regardless of where he is in terms of form, you will always have to discount the 'box of frogs' aspect of his performance. Yellow card etc.

I do see Nowell as the long term replacement for Brown, however yesterday, regardless of his 'away days', surely should have been starting on the left - obviously with Wade on the right.

Going forward;

Nowell
Wade
Farrell
Malinder
Tuilagi
Watson

by SimonofSurrey Sun 05 Feb 2017, 5:10 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I didn't manage to watch this one yet.

Hi George, some thoughts below in italics from a self-confessed one eyed Englishman who's now calmed down enough to see things - I hope - objectively and fairly

Were England really that bad or were the French strong and much improved? Or both?
England were slow and dreadful until +/-minute 68 then, when they took the lead three minutes later, had enough nous and gas to keep the lead

Perhaps based on the matches in the final year of last year's tournament, I think that both England and Ireland fans were expecting healthy victories.
Not in the slightest for this Englishman. I never judge a French side until the final whistle (eg I was sitting behind the goal in SdF when Fickou scored his late, late matchwinning try 3 years ago)

Isn't this a chance to find out more about your squads?
Hmm .. not really. The big disappointments for Englishmen were twofiold - 1/ old issues cropped up again, eg Wood playing just as he did when EJ told him to go home and remember how to play at international level; and 2/ high hope experiments did not work, notably Itoje in the back row

Can I also ask how Daly played because I really rate him.
I think he looked a class above almost everyone else in white when brought into the game, but that's not saying much given the overall standard around him. His howitzer left boot will make any oppo think twice before infringing less than 55m from their own posts, and he showed deceptively serious gas to - almost - nail a try in the corner.

Final thoughts: Picamoles will go to his grave wondering how he ended up on the losing side yesterday: Parisse would have been mighty proud of that performance. A combined team of the two sides yesterday would look very blue indeed. England were soundly beaten in most facets of the game for much of the match but still, scarcely believably, scored more points. A weird variation on the sarcastic claim that [insert name of your least favourite oppo] never lose, they just concede more points

England were poor and France have certainly improved, I guess we kind of met in middle somewhere. We dropped the ball and knocked on way too much, stopping us getting any momentum early on. Set piece went quite well but we slipped off tackles for fun. agreed

Daly was ok, nothing amazing. Had a good chance for a try but put his feet in touch when I'd have expected a good winger to have finished it off. agree to disagree: I think he did very well to get that close - the cover had time to line him up. But, having done the hard bit by getting to the tryline, his technique let him down at the last: he probably could and should have lifted the trailing foot and made the score

France looked very solid and will do well this year. They were extremely physical in the contact, I can see them roughing a few teams up.
A brave assertion. I agree the French looked very sound and much improved, but they're just as capable of losing to Italy as they are of winning their next four games: neither would surprise me

To end where I started - hope this comes across as a self-confessed one eyed Englishman trying his best to use both eyes. Cheers!

by EnglishReign Sun 05 Feb 2017, 5:27 pm

kingelderfield wrote:England's performance should and I think will improve.

I was disappointed with the wings selection. Obviously Watson's injury opened up the opportunity for May, though regardless of where he is in terms of form, you will always have to discount the 'box of frogs' aspect of his performance. Yellow card etc.

I do see Nowell as the long term replacement for Brown, however yesterday, regardless of his 'away days', surely should have been starting on the left - obviously with Wade on the right.

Going forward;

Nowell
Wade
Farrell
Malinder
Tuilagi
Watson

Ridiculous. May would've been in regardless, Jones has made it pretty clear he is a big fan. Wade has no chance with his poor defence. I can't see Tuilagi getting anywhere near the side again either.

Going forward, when all fit, I'd be tempted to play:
Youngs
Farrell
May
Daly
Joseph
Nowell
Watson

by sensisball Sun 05 Feb 2017, 6:01 pm

England were also lucky that Noves cannot resist bringing on his Toulouse bench players. Jean Marc Doussain's attempt to make touch with a penalty kick as full time beckoned was absolutely shocking. If he wasn't a former player of the head coach it would be the end of his int. career, however he will probably be promoted to start next week!

England were appalling for most of the first 60 but France couldn't put enough points on the board to pull away. i read with amusements the predictions on this thread that this England team would beat France by between 15 and 30 points. Still, a win is a win. I suspect a slightly better performance will be needed next week.

by eirebilly Sun 05 Feb 2017, 6:16 pm

I do have to say again that I felt the ref, Angus Gardner from Australia was absolutely dire yesterday and did not allow the game to flow. He may have got the majority of his calls correct but he could also have played advantage and let the game flow a bit more. Some of his calls were just simply mind boggling though.

by lostinwales Sun 05 Feb 2017, 6:18 pm

EnglishReign wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:England's performance should and I think will improve.

I was disappointed with the wings selection. Obviously Watson's injury opened up the opportunity for May, though regardless of where he is in terms of form, you will always have to discount the 'box of frogs' aspect of his performance. Yellow card etc.

I do see Nowell as the long term replacement for Brown, however yesterday, regardless of his 'away days', surely should have been starting on the left - obviously with Wade on the right.

Going forward;

Nowell
Wade
Farrell
Malinder
Tuilagi
Watson

Ridiculous. May would've been in regardless, Jones has made it pretty clear he is a big fan. Wade has no chance with his poor defence. I can't see Tuilagi getting anywhere near the side again either.

Going forward, when all fit, I'd be tempted to play:
Youngs
Farrell
May
Daly
Joseph
Nowell
Watson

Tuilagi might get back but we have no idea until he manages more than a couple of games in a row before breaking down. If he was healthy and on form he would make a case for being included, but its a while since we have seen that. The fact that Jones is picking Te'o seems to support this aswell.

I also think Daly might end up at FB.

by lostinwales Sun 05 Feb 2017, 6:19 pm

eirebilly wrote:I do have to say again that I felt the ref, Angus Gardner from Australia was absolutely dire yesterday and did not allow the game to flow. He may have got the majority of his calls correct but he could also have played advantage and let the game flow a bit more. Some of his calls were just simply mind boggling though.

The most bizarre and unhelpful was the Wood penalty but the only thing you could say in his favour is that he treated both sides the same

by eirebilly Sun 05 Feb 2017, 6:22 pm

He certainly wasn't biased, he was equally awful for both teams. Just felt he ruined the game as a spectacle somewhat.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 05 Feb 2017, 6:26 pm

I wouldn't have Wade near an England squad personally.

by EnglishReign Sun 05 Feb 2017, 6:41 pm

lostinwales wrote:
EnglishReign wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:England's performance should and I think will improve.

I was disappointed with the wings selection. Obviously Watson's injury opened up the opportunity for May, though regardless of where he is in terms of form, you will always have to discount the 'box of frogs' aspect of his performance. Yellow card etc.

I do see Nowell as the long term replacement for Brown, however yesterday, regardless of his 'away days', surely should have been starting on the left - obviously with Wade on the right.

Going forward;

Nowell
Wade
Farrell
Malinder
Tuilagi
Watson

Ridiculous. May would've been in regardless, Jones has made it pretty clear he is a big fan. Wade has no chance with his poor defence. I can't see Tuilagi getting anywhere near the side again either.

Going forward, when all fit, I'd be tempted to play:
Youngs
Farrell
May
Daly
Joseph
Nowell
Watson

Tuilagi might get back but we have no idea until he manages more than a couple of games in a row before breaking down. If he was healthy and on form he would make a case for being included, but its a while since we have seen that. The fact that Jones is picking Te'o seems to support this aswell.

I also think Daly might end up at FB.

That's true. To be fair, I forget Manu is only 25. He does have it all to prove again though, and like you say it's been a fair while since he had a run of games.

by lostinwales Sun 05 Feb 2017, 8:20 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I wouldn't have Wade near an England squad personally.

Definitely wouldnt have wanted to see him marking those fijians yesterday

by lostinwales Sun 05 Feb 2017, 8:23 pm

Other news - Kruis out for the 6N and hes under the knife next week Sad

Which reminds me - Launchbury definitely had a poor game yesterday. Seemed a little off the pace. That surprises me.

Mako Vunipola is back though. Won't be fit for Saturday but may make the later stages. We do miss his running game but otherwise don't miss much.

by eirebilly Sun 05 Feb 2017, 8:25 pm

Terrible for Kruis, England will miss him.

by Poorfour Sun 05 Feb 2017, 9:02 pm

eirebilly wrote:Terrible for Kruis, England will miss him.

And probably the Lions, though they don't know it yet

by Gwlad Sun 05 Feb 2017, 9:15 pm

Then a 2nd row of Itoje and Lawes seems likely with Luanchbury on the bench? Haskell has to start in the back row too i expect.

by Poorfour Sun 05 Feb 2017, 9:28 pm

Gwlad wrote:Then a 2nd row of Itoje and Lawes seems likely with Luanchbury on the bench? Haskell has to start in the back row too i expect.

That seems likely. Wood probably moves to 6. It's possible that Clifford comes back in for Harrison, given the pace on the Welsh bench. I wonder if Care might start.

by robbo277 Sun 05 Feb 2017, 9:41 pm

sensisball wrote:England were also lucky that Noves cannot resist bringing on his Toulouse bench players. Jean Marc Doussain's attempt to make touch with a penalty kick as full time beckoned was absolutely shocking. If he wasn't a former player of the head coach it would be the end of his int. career, however he will probably be promoted to start next week!

England were appalling for most of the first 60 but France couldn't put enough points on the board to pull away. i read with amusements the predictions on this thread that this England team would beat France by between 15 and 30 points. Still, a win is a win. I suspect a slightly better performance will be needed next week.

We did France by 10 points in Paris last year, and haven't done badly since. So 15 points wasn't a ridiculous prediction ahead of the time, even if England made it look ridiculous in hindsight!

Gwlad wrote:Then a 2nd row of Itoje and Lawes seems likely with Luanchbury on the bench? Haskell has to start in the back row too i expect.

You'd think so, and that pack probably does have a better look about it. Although I think Launchbury is a better player than Lawes, Lawes played better yesterday and if it was Launchbury and Itoje starting you might worry about the line-out a bit.

by lostinwales Sun 05 Feb 2017, 10:05 pm

I got no worries about Itoje in the lineout. And it was one of his better areas yesterday.

Lawes did good - though his carrying was poor. His tackle on Serin must have been about as hard as you can go and be legitimate under current rules.

by hugehandoff Sun 05 Feb 2017, 10:33 pm

Reflecting on our poor performance the one thing we don't know is what happened in training? EJ said he takes responsibility for poor preparation. Maybe the boys were tired as they were overworked? The whole team seemed lacklustre.

Then add in Marler and Hartley starting against a monstrous front row having played no recent matches - madness! Of course the subs made an impact. Itoje has little international experience at 6 so of course he was not as good as usual. Hughes is still new and it takes time for players to settle in.

We were vulnerable and were lucky to escape. Whatever happened to Ben Morgan?

by lostinwales Sun 05 Feb 2017, 10:56 pm

I believe Ben Morgan has been (or close to have been) in some of the extended squads but he's not really doing it at club level.

I do think he plays better at international level but its not enough so far. Morgan would not have made a difference yesterday. Kruis would, Robshaw and Billy would - but overall as stated everything was lethargic.

by munkian Mon 06 Feb 2017, 8:28 am

Cumbrian wrote:Christ, that was awful. All I can say is at least we won and we can't possibly be that bad again.

Shades of 2013, poor win against Italy at home then Wales away Hug

by majesticimperialman Mon 06 Feb 2017, 8:39 am

If Hughes is injured who is next in line? is it Clifford? or Harrison?

Is Ben Morgan even in contention for the squad?

Will Billy V be ready for Wales or not?

by No 7&1/2 Mon 06 Feb 2017, 8:43 am

Clifford I would think. Billy is out for whole tournament. Mako back after wales.

by maestegmafia Mon 06 Feb 2017, 9:08 am

EnglishReign wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:England's performance should and I think will improve.

I was disappointed with the wings selection. Obviously Watson's injury opened up the opportunity for May, though regardless of where he is in terms of form, you will always have to discount the 'box of frogs' aspect of his performance. Yellow card etc.

I do see Nowell as the long term replacement for Brown, however yesterday, regardless of his 'away days', surely should have been starting on the left - obviously with Wade on the right.

Going forward;

Nowell
Wade
Farrell
Malinder
Tuilagi
Watson

Ridiculous. May would've been in regardless, Jones has made it pretty clear he is a big fan. Wade has no chance with his poor defence. I can't see Tuilagi getting anywhere near the side again either.

Going forward, when all fit, I'd be tempted to play:
Youngs
Farrell
May
Daly
Joseph
Nowell
Watson

I thought Joseph was injured? Didn't know he was even in the squad. He must have had a quiet game on Saturday evening.

by Gooseberry Mon 06 Feb 2017, 9:33 am

maestegmafia wrote:
EnglishReign wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:England's performance should and I think will improve.

I was disappointed with the wings selection. Obviously Watson's injury opened up the opportunity for May, though regardless of where he is in terms of form, you will always have to discount the 'box of frogs' aspect of his performance. Yellow card etc.

I do see Nowell as the long term replacement for Brown, however yesterday, regardless of his 'away days', surely should have been starting on the left - obviously with Wade on the right.

Going forward;

Nowell
Wade
Farrell
Malinder
Tuilagi
Watson

Ridiculous. May would've been in regardless, Jones has made it pretty clear he is a big fan. Wade has no chance with his poor defence. I can't see Tuilagi getting anywhere near the side again either.

Going forward, when all fit, I'd be tempted to play:
Youngs
Farrell
May
Daly
Joseph
Nowell
Watson

I thought Joseph was injured? Didn't know he was even in the squad. He must have had a quiet game on Saturday evening.

You may be joshing but you're not far wrong. He was very anonymous. Made his tackles but saw little of the ball and did little when he got it.
Maybe not entirely his fault due to the nature of the game in front of him but pretty disappointing from one of the most exciting players in the tournament.
The 3/4s didn't get much joy at all, only Brown got a lot of running and that was mostly returning deep kicks.

by Geordie Mon 06 Feb 2017, 9:38 am

England weren't great but hey they won. Isnt the old saying playing badly and winning is the sign of a good side!

Its certainly banded about when NZ do it!

by Poorfour Mon 06 Feb 2017, 9:40 am

munkian wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:Christ, that was awful. All I can say is at least we won and we can't possibly be that bad again.

Shades of 2013, poor win against Italy at home then Wales away

Stop stirring. That France side was considerably tougher than any Italy side I've seen, and I think the quality of the game was impaired by both sides struggling to cope with an inexperienced and inconsistent ref.

England will need to fix some things, though. Itoje doesn't look like an international quality 6, so I'd expect him to return to the second row with Haskell and Wood to start on the flank next week, and I think there's a case for a Care - Farrell - Te'o - Joseph/Daly midfield.

I can't see any official indications of injuries beyond Kruis, so it's going to be a question of how far Eddie is prepared to shuffle the pack.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 06 Feb 2017, 9:48 am

Haskell coming in and Itoje playing second row could quite easily be the only changes, though I can envisage Jones refusing to end the experiment of Super-Maro in the back row (even though his 15 minutes after he moved up was so much better than the 65 in teh back row).

I suspect that Maro will keep the job of calling the lineouts, despite some early teething problems (especially the balls-up at the first lineout where he seemed to forget what he had called).

Care, Te'o and Nowell will probably be kept as impact replacements.

by propdavid_london Mon 06 Feb 2017, 9:51 am

If you had to pick an English player for MoM then it would have been either Brown or Faz. As it was, Picamoles was well deserved.
The rest all had games to forget.

My main thoughts on England after the game -

George Ford was pretty anonymous - aside from a couple of good kicks from hand and involvement in Daly's almost try he didn't do much.

Itoje was much improved when moved back to 2nd row - would prefer to leave him there (we know he can cover if needed).

We missed the ball carrying from the Vaunipolas - We didn't make any effective carries of note, there was a lot of effort for negative yardage. Hughes, Wood, Itoje, Lawes, Launchbury were all pretty ineffective against a big French pack.

Missed tackles - there appeared to be quite a few (is this the result of deliberately going for chop tackles to avoid chance of cards?)

Ben Youngs - Don't recall much happening there - very little sniping and slow delivery combined with a good line speed from France didn't help G.Ford.

George didn't make much of an impact in the time that he was on.

Tom Wood - Not a good game - end of

Positives - Immediate impact from Haskell. We finally see what Teo brings to the table. Care offered a bit of Fizz on the delivery (something he hasn't done for club recently).

by beshocked Mon 06 Feb 2017, 9:58 am

Changes obviously needed but will be interesting to see where Jones prioritises them the most.

We all know who won't be dropped... Wink

IMO it's always better to start the game strong rather than finish strong.

Unfortunately with Youngs and Ford you have two players who heavily rely on their pack being on the front foot in my opinion.

When Youngs is good, he's very good, when he's struggling..... he's like a headless chicken.

Without the Vunipola bros for some more carrying power this becomes a bit more difficult.

Jones must tinker.

propdavid london disagree on George. I thought he helped anchor the scrum nicely, was solid around the park and linked well with Itoje at lineout time.

by Geordie Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:03 am

Ford is not there mentally at the minute either with all the club issues going on.

Though his return to Leicester is as good as done so hopefully he'll become more focused.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:09 am

There's only likely to be a couple of changes. I suspect as above haskell comes in for Launchbury and Itoje to lock.

by beshocked Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:11 am

Geordiefalcon I'd be tempted to drop Ford to the bench with Farrell to 10 but then again that would lead to issue who plays 12....

Is it just a one off bad performance?

by **LondonTiger** Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:21 am

Ford had an average game, but certainly not poor. A lack of physicality at the breakdown meant ball was very slow emerging, allowing a fast French defensive line to pressure Ford and Farrell in the 10/12 axis.

A lacklustre Launchbury being replaced by Haskell and allowing Itoje, who had been quiet when on the flank, to move forward increased the physicality (despite Wood's best efforts to diminish it) and gace the newly arranged back line front foot ball for the first time in the game.

Yes Youngs and Ford were below their usual standards, along with most of the starting XV, but I doubt they will be changed.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:36 am

I was surprised that we did not see Sinkler make the field though.

by Geordie Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:37 am

beshocked wrote:Geordiefalcon I'd be tempted to drop Ford to the bench with Farrell to 10 but then again that would lead to issue who plays 12....

Is it just a one off bad performance?

Ah I wouldn't drop them. The team all played badly and they still won. A sign of a good team.

Give them another run out. Itoje back to the engine room and big Hask on the flank. He was VERY physical as soon as he came on!
And surely Wood needs to be retired from International rugby. He's just not physical enough.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:41 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Give them another run out. Itoje back to the engine room and big Hask on the flank. He was VERY physical as soon as he came on!
And surely Wood needs to be retired from International rugby. He's just not physical enough.

Most of us seem to be in agreement, therefore Eddie will not be Very Happy

Maro has risen to each challenge placed before him so far causing the expectation benchmark to be raised time and again. On this occasion being asked to start in the back row for the first time AND call the lineouts for the first time he may have struggled just a touch. But he is young and it is allowed.

While I do not expect to see many changes for next week (other than those you mention) by Round 5 I have a sneaky feeling that George will be starting and Farrell will be captain.

by majesticimperialman Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:42 am

I think the excuse for the performance of England at the week end is they was ring rusty but still won.

I do think this week England should be better prepared, they had better be, Wales will be on an up after this week end.

It will be brutal no doubt about that.

Looking forward to it though.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:43 am

A lot of the media are now focusing on Farrell the captain.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:44 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:A lot of the media are now focusing on Farrell the captain.

Which would be another decision that would anger Mr B.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:45 am

Nah he'd love it overall as it would mean george.

by Cumbrian Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:48 am

munkian wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:Christ, that was awful. All I can say is at least we won and we can't possibly be that bad again.

Shades of 2013, poor win against Italy at home then Wales away

Ha! We shall see next week I guess. Smile

by Poorfour Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:49 am

LondonTiger wrote:I was surprised that we did not see Sinkler make the field though.

At about 45 minutes it looked like Sinckler might be coming on, because he was on the exercise bike while the rest of the subs were prancing around in the in goal area. However, he later joined them and was moving a bit stiffly - I suspect he might have tweaked something in the warm up. It didn't look major, but probably enough not to risk it if Cole was still OK.

by propdavid_london Mon 06 Feb 2017, 10:52 am

Beshocked - I didn't say George was poor, just that he didn't make much of an impact (compared to previous appearances off the bench). Its not like Hartley made any impact in the 60mins he was on either!

I agree with others that its unlikely that there will be wholesale changes - it is still a wining team and hopefully they have blown the cobwebs away.

The only changes that I think EJ should be looking at is -
Hask coming back in.
Itoje moves back to engine room
Launchbury to bench
Maybe rotate Care and Youngs bench/starting spot
Nowell to start, Daly to bench

Would like to see but unlikely -
Tom Wood dropped
Maybe Clifford or Anyone else with a bit more physicality to fill that spot.

by Sgt_Pooly Mon 06 Feb 2017, 11:11 am

I'd start Youngs against Wales. he normally follows up a bad game with an excellent game. If my theory is correct and he has a stormer against Wales, I'd then drop him as he'd be due another bad game.

by Mad for Chelsea Mon 06 Feb 2017, 11:28 am

Youngs was excellent overall in the AIs, so still has credit in the bank for me. Having said that, he was poor on Sat, even when you factor in the fact he didn't have good ball to deal with.

I didn't think Itoje was as bad as has been made out in some quarters, top tackler I think, but yes seemed a fraction too slow to get to the breakdown. Definitely better suited to lock based on Saturday's efforts. We really missed Robshaw's workrate for me, and obviously the Vunipola bros carrying.

Haskell comes back in for one of the locks IMO, and then you have a decision to make on whether you stick with Wood shifting him to the BS, or go with someone else. Wood was OK to good during the autumn but poor on Sat, conceding too many pens (albeit the one for diving on the ball was rather baffling).

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