6N 2017: Scotland vs Wales, 25th Feb

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Scotland vs Wales


Date: Saturday 25th February 2017
Venue: BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Kick Off: 2:25pm
Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)
TV Coverage: Live on BBC

Weather Update


Teams

Scotland

1. Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors)
2. Faiser Brown (Glasgow Warriors)
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors)
4. Richie Gray (Toulouse)
5. Johnny Gray (Glasgow Warriors)
6. John Barclay (C) (Scarlets)
7. John Hardie (Edinburgh)
8. Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors)

9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors)
10. Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors)
11. Tim Visser (Harlequins)
12. Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors)
13. Huw Jones (Stormers)
14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors)
15. Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)

Replacements

16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh)
17 Allan Dell (Edinburgh)
18 Simon Berghan (Edinburgh)
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors)
20 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh)
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors)
22 Duncan Weir (Edinburgh)
23 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors)


Wales

1 Rob Evans (Scarlets)
2 Ken Owens (Scarlets)
3 Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs)
4 Jake Ball (Scarlets)
5 Alun Wyn Jones (C) (Ospreys)
6 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues)
7 Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)
8 Ross Moriarty (Gloucester)

9 Rhys Webb (Ospreys)
10 Dan Biggar (Ospreys)
11 Liam Williams (Scarlets)
12 Scott Williams (Scarlets)
13 Jonathan Davies (Scarlets)
14 George North (Northampton)
15 Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)

Replacements

16 Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)
17 Nicky Smith (Ospreys)
18 Samson Lee (Scarlets)
19 Luke Charteris (Bath)
20 Taulupe Faletau (Dragons)
21 Gareth Davies (Scarlets)
22 Sam Davies (Ospreys)
23 Jamie Roberts (Harlequins)

I am having a very happy birthday!

10 years of pain finally over. What a great performance from Scotland.

Actually Russell was a good call for MoM.

His kicking kept the scoreboard ticking over and his vision created the two tries, albeit with fantastic assists from Visser and Hoggy. He is a big game animal, was asked to step up today and he did. Don't rule him out of the Lions just yet.

Happy birthday BigGee

Hope someone got you soap

tigertattie wrote:Happy birthday BigGee

Hope someone got you soap

tigertattie wrote:Happy birthday BigGee

Hope someone got you soap

Today will be about beer and Prosecco (Italian wife you know!)

Soap can wait!

Enjoy it BigGee. Special day.

Thanks to all the Welsh fans and posters on these boards for their contributions to what has been a very enjoyable thread. I was working and so couldn't see the game but I will see it out because it sounds like it was very entertaining.

George Carlin wrote:Thanks to all the Welsh fans and posters on these boards for their contributions to what has been a very enjoyable thread. I was working and so couldn't see the game but I will see it out because it sounds like it was very entertaining.

I'd skip the first half!

Haha. If ever the cliché of game of two halves was true, it was today.

Hippo birdie two ewes, Gee.

That was a fantastic win; there were at least two occasions when Wales might have scored and took the game away from us but they didn't and we seem to have an inner self-belief and resilience which allowed us to come good in the end. Chappeau BVC.

It is just a great feeling for Scotland to finally be considered a decent rugby team again and given due respect.

If I am honest there have been many many occasions over the past 10 years when we clearly did not deserve to be but some credit needs to go to the SRU who have realised our limitations and worked hard over the past few years to put the systems in place to get us to where we got to today.

We are far from the finished article, but we are finally a truly competitive rugby team at last and we will give most teams a proper game and will win a good few. Ability has been there for some time, but confidence seems to take a while to catch up after so many fallow years.

The more competitive teams that exist in the 6N, the better the competition. Let's not undervalue it, it really is some competition!

Delighted with that especially the second half.

Players to call out

Watson. Came on early  and was like an energizer bunny with his carries and ground work

Mcvisser. Finally play d like he wanted to be there and played well. I stand corrected

Russel. That was a performance of a player able to control a match. No missed kicks. Very assured

Price. Excellent little player there

Some other too

Also mention Webb from wales. An annoying little 9 but I thought was close to MOM to me

Not to diminish a fine victory from Scots - well done - who rallied after a poor first half to dominate territory and possession, but just how bad have Wales become. So much talent but not an ounce of threat. This new wide game we want to play, we're just incapable of it with Biggar at 10. We've become a defense, thats it. And of course eventually that defense crumbles.

I'd like to thank Scotland for playing along with the Sack Howley campaign, i am sure that we will now lose to both Ireland and France and we'll be forced to let the dimwit go. I'd rather have Trump as coach, at least he has some fight. Cant wait to see Howley whine about this one, did we lose our composure again Rob? Or were we just invisible in attack and unable even to retain a ball in the tackle, unable to tackle, unable to know that we should take the fecking points when you are 3 behind - JUST LIKE LAST WEEK YOU #$%^&.

At 16-13 AWJ elected points and that buffoon Biggar with his huge gobshite bollix said 'touch ALun touch', AWJ- like any potential Lions Capt- folded like a Welsh rugby team and we went for the silly man line out. Of course we Fooked that up too.

And to think, Rob Howley is going to be lions attack coach.

People who need dropping:
Francis, Tipuric, Biggar, North, Halfpenny, Roberts.

People who need sacking:
Howley

All of this is due to the WRU allowing Gatland not one, but two sabbaticals from the most important job in Welsh rugby.

Gwlad wrote:Not to diminish a fine victory from Scots - well done - who rallied after a poor first half to dominate territory and possession, but just how bad have Wales become. So much talent but not an ounce of threat. This new wide game we want to play, we're just incapable of it with Biggar at 10. We've become a defense, thats it. And of course eventually that defense crumbles.

I'd like to thank Scotland for playing along with the Sack Howley campaign, i am sure that we will now lose to both Ireland and France and we'll be forced to let the dimwit go. I'd rather have Trump as coach, at least he has some fight. Cant wait to see Howley whine about this one, did we lose our composure again Rob? Or were we just invisible in attack and unable even to retain a ball in the tackle, unable to tackle, unable to know that we should take the fecking points when you are 3 behind - JUST LIKE LAST WEEK YOU #$%^&.

At 16-13 AWJ elected points and that buffoon Biggar with his huge gobshite bollix said 'touch ALun touch', AWJ- like any potential Lions Capt- folded like a Welsh rugby team and we went for the silly man line out. Of course we Fooked that up too.  

And to think, Rob Howley is going to be lions attack coach.

People who need dropping:
Francis, Tipuric, Biggar, North, Halfpenny, Roberts.

People who need sacking:
Howley

All of this is due to the WRU allowing Gatland not one, but two sabbaticals from the most important job in Welsh rugby.

Don't be holding back then!

Very nice win from Scotland - comfortable in the end, frankly a bit of a thrashing. Wales were woefully inept, forget the performance against England, this was the Wales we have seen for three years. Pedestrian, predictable rugby devoid of skill and imagination.  

Nice to see Howley's clever use of the "finishers" on the bench, just when the game was finally lost.

Well done Scotland, a genuinely improved team and with a few players missing too.

Gwlad wrote:Not to diminish a fine victory from Scots - well done - who rallied after a poor first half to dominate territory and possession, but just how bad have Wales become. So much talent but not an ounce of threat. This new wide game we want to play, we're just incapable of it with Biggar at 10. We've become a defense, thats it. And of course eventually that defense crumbles.

I'd like to thank Scotland for playing along with the Sack Howley campaign, i am sure that we will now lose to both Ireland and France and we'll be forced to let the dimwit go. I'd rather have Trump as coach, at least he has some fight. Cant wait to see Howley whine about this one, did we lose our composure again Rob? Or were we just invisible in attack and unable even to retain a ball in the tackle, unable to tackle, unable to know that we should take the fecking points when you are 3 behind - JUST LIKE LAST WEEK YOU #$%^&.

At 16-13 AWJ elected points and that buffoon Biggar with his huge gobshite bollix said 'touch ALun touch', AWJ- like any potential Lions Capt- folded like a Welsh rugby team and we went for the silly man line out. Of course we Fooked that up too.  

And to think, Rob Howley is going to be lions attack coach.

People who need dropping:
Francis, Tipuric, Biggar, North, Halfpenny, Roberts.

People who need sacking:
Howley

All of this is due to the WRU allowing Gatland not one, but two sabbaticals from the most important job in Welsh rugby.

Hear Hear.The only thing not quite right is that Trump wins things.I think Howley and his sidekicks have everything in common with Corbyn.As in The Wild Bunch they've come too late and stayed too long.We were dire and dreadful today and both sides' performances will be put into perspective when they play Ireland and England next.

You'll need to speak for yourself on that one. Scotland have already turned the Irish over.

Scotland were as good as Wales were poor that second half. Warburton was excellent first half, Watson was even better second half.

Far too many errors from Wales, just as they started to get something going.

2 very tricky matches left, there are a few players who will need to pick up their consistency for them.

Well played Scotland you desereved the win. Great play and superb fans. What a crowd. Best murrayfield experience in 30 years.

Shame to support the losing side today but what a great occasion. Great night to be Edinburgh

Well done Scotland, it's great to see you doing well this year.

That second half was painful to watch. A team that dominates the collisions and breakdown like that shouldn't be struggling this badly - it all fell to pieces in that latter half didn't it... This all coincided with Hamish Watson coming onto the field. I agree he should have been MOTM as for me he was the difference between winning and losing. He was competing at every breakdown and getting turnovers, and when he wasn't he was enough of a nuisance elsewhere which allowed his team mates to get a turnover. What a gem of a player. Wales although remaining very strong in contact seemed to be knocking it on a lot. There was that one time where Webb didn't know what to do so chucked it to poor Sam Davies - the result being another turnover from Watson. It's just unacceptable decision-making at this level. Scotland seemed to sneak through the line on a few occasions and each time they got points. All that time Wales spent hammering away in their half for nout - how can they be that bad? Not even sure how Scotland managed to score those two tries either, they made it look very easy! Past Scotland teams would have thrown in the towel after that first half, so fair play to them for gaining the ascendancy. There's clearly plenty of pride in that Scottish jersey and none in the Welsh jersey it seems. I guess there'll be knives out for certain welsh players and coaches in the week, and rightly so I reckon. Pathetic performances from Biggar and North, and Dan Bigmouth needs to keep that trap shut, it's even annoying me now. Hopefully it's also the final nail in the coffin for Howler - can't stand the guy or his mates. I'm willing to persist with our flankers and AWJ as captain, it's working and our pack is more efficient IMO. King is one of the coaches I rate, I can see the subtle difference in our back play and he needs more time.

Again, well done, it's not easy to end a drought and Scotland did so today very convincingly.

My 2 cents

Reid - 7/10 good all round game. Magic bolldozing through AWJ to win a turnover
Brown - 7/10 decent darts. Excellent in the loose
ZooZander - 6.5/10 good in the loose. Was fired up. Better scrums this week but still coming off worse
Gray Snr - 7/10 solid, good line out operator. Made tackles
Gray Jnr - 7/10 see above. Bit quiet though.
Barclay - 8.5/10 led by example. Kept things calm. Ferocious at the breakdown
Watson - 9/10 was a sub but was on longer than hardie. Motm for me. Carried and tackled like a demon. (Hardie, no score due to injury)
Wilson - 5/10 didn't do enough for me. Tackled when needed but wasn't involved much. Carrying ineffective

Price - 7/10 looked sharp. Needs to get it away from the ruck quicker.
Russell - 8/10 poor first half. Good second half. Needs consistency to be talked about as a potential lion.
Visser - 8/10 was actually rather quiet but saved a certain try. Set up a try and scored his own so deserves an 8 surely?
Dunbar - 6/10 defensively sound but was pretty anonymous
Jones - 6.5/10 solid. Ran good lines. Always looking to support. Needed more ball
Seymour 7/10 great at chasing high balls. Took his try well. Bit of a quiet day, needs to come looking for work.
Hogg - 8.5/10 provides the magic in the backline. Showed today why he's worth 5 halfpennies

Subs were solid but didn't do much (except Watson of course)

When we were in the welsh 22 we were deadly but we struggled to get there at times. We desperately need a devastating ball carrier. Will Strauss be back for England? Wilson wasn't up to it today! We need the grays to do more carrying (but more effectively) and we still need to work on the scrums. Restarts were better today (bar one) and we need to tighten up the discipline at the breakdown.

Same team for England except maybe Strauss back for Wilson? Totally up got it now. Will blow the championship wide open if we can pip them

RDW_Scotland wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:That Hamish Watson looks some player. Don't know much about him. Has he just come on the scene? Is he young?

In his mid 20s - been around a few years and we were worried he wasn't big enough for international rugby. We were wrong!

Some of us always argued he wasn't too small for international rugby!

The back row were awesome today, I have to say I'm even pretty convinced by Ryan Wilson now, he's never going to be able to carry as hard as Strauss but he had a big impact today. All energy and, finally, channeled aggression. He hasn't been getting into pointless scraps, and he clearly energises the guys around him.

So very happy today. Also credit and commiserations to all the Welsh fans, we know better than most what its like to be disappointed in your team but you've all been great sports

Just been looking on bbc sport. AWJ says he wanted to take the three points kick at goal.

The kickers said NO. go for the line out.

Well who is in charge AWJ? You or the kickers?

When was the last time Scotland came back from behind at half time to win a game in the Six Nations?
Also the first time since 1999 that Scotland have won more than one game against other home nations.
Almost incredibly if, and it is a big if, Scotland could conceivably find themselves in fourth place (even third if everything goes perfectly) in the world rankings.

great game. just watched it now.

is it just me or did barclay say about 5 words to lacey, and most welsh forwards plus biggar said far far more?

oh how i yearn for the days when anyone not captain talking to the ref was an automatic 10m penalty.

i'm normally a welsh fan (after england) but the "chat" to lacey really wasnt good.

majesticimperialman wrote:Just been looking on bbc sport. AWJ says he wanted to take the three points kick at goal.

The kickers said NO. go for the line out.

Well who is in charge AWJ? You or the kickers?

Depends. If the kicker makes the tactical decision to go for the corner, the captain should overrule him. If the kicker says he can't make the kick, then the captain has to go with that and take the next best option.

But from recollection it wasn't a particular difficult kick and Wales had two good kickers on the pitch, so you wouldn't have thought they would have turned it down on difficulty.

Well done Scotland - I was worried all the injuries would prove too much but that was a great result - Congrats.

bsando wrote:Visser is good, I'm confident he will do well replacing Maitland who is obviously still a big loss. If Scoland get on the front foot more this weekend then it will be good having a devastating finisher like Visser on the wing.

Love it when I'm right!

Great result, one I have been looking forward to since 2010's capitulation in Cardiff. To be honest, last few years this fixture has been tight so it was good to see the result fall our way for a change. I thought maybe a tight finish but in the end Scotland played well in the 2nd half and made the best of their chances winning by 16!!! Wales I thought lost momentum after the TMO review of Tim Visser's try saving tackle, they sort of dropped their heads a bit. I loved the control by Scotland in this game. That was lacking in Paris after Laidlaw went off and other injuries didn't help things.

Bad luck Wales, a bit to work on it seems but I would expect a reaction from the players and a positive result in Cardiff in 2 weeks time.

On Scotland, the backrow were fantastic. I thought Wales did better in 1st half but Scotlands 6,7,8 definitely won the 2nd half. Watson being the standout player in my opinion.

Scotland can now hope to win 3 home games this tournament, phenomenal!

It is looking good for Scotland at the moment.

bsando wrote:

bsando wrote:Visser is good, I'm confident he will do well replacing Maitland who is obviously still a big loss. If Scoland get on the front foot more this weekend then it will be good having a devastating finisher like Visser on the wing.

Love it when I'm right!

Great result, one I have been looking forward to since 2010's capitulation in Cardiff. To be honest, last few years this fixture has been tight so it was good to see the result fall our way for a change. I thought maybe a tight finish but in the end Scotland played well in the 2nd half and made the best of their chances winning by 16!!! Wales I thought lost momentum after the TMO review of Tim Visser's try saving tackle, they sort of dropped their heads a bit. I loved the control by Scotland in this game. That was lacking in Paris after Laidlaw went off and other injuries didn't help things.

Bad luck Wales, a bit to work on it seems but I would expect a reaction from the players and a positive result in Cardiff in 2 weeks time.

On Scotland, the backrow were fantastic. I thought Wales did better in 1st half but Scotlands 6,7,8 definitely won the 2nd half. Watson being the standout player in my opinion.

Scotland can now hope to win 3 home games this tournament, phenomenal!

Pull off the win against Italy and in a two year cycle only England will have beaten Scotland at home in the Six Nations, if Scotland can make Murrayfield a place teams expect to lose then they are moving in the right direction.

blimey. england scotland is going to be a cracker! been a long time since that's been the case. No reason Scotland cant win if they play like they did 2nd half there.

No reason Scotland cant win if they play like they did 2nd half there.


Yes there is. England. England won't let them.

robbo277 wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Just been looking on bbc sport. AWJ says he wanted to take the three points kick at goal.

The kickers said NO. go for the line out.

Well who is in charge AWJ? You or the kickers?

Depends. If the kicker makes the tactical decision to go for the corner, the captain should overrule him. If the kicker says he can't make the kick, then the captain has to go with that and take the next best option.

But from recollection it wasn't a particular difficult kick and Wales had two good kickers on the pitch, so you wouldn't have thought they would have turned it down on difficulty.

I think what it shows is that passion alone is not quite enough to captain an international side. I agree with those that dislike all the Welsh chat to the referee that goes on, AWJ being the main culprit. There's a case for requesting the odd interpretation from a referee, much like Barclay did, then there's constant badgering as AWJ goes for. Personally, I'd choose Warburton as captain.

chris_501 wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Just been looking on bbc sport. AWJ says he wanted to take the three points kick at goal.

The kickers said NO. go for the line out.

Well who is in charge AWJ? You or the kickers?

Depends. If the kicker makes the tactical decision to go for the corner, the captain should overrule him. If the kicker says he can't make the kick, then the captain has to go with that and take the next best option.

But from recollection it wasn't a particular difficult kick and Wales had two good kickers on the pitch, so you wouldn't have thought they would have turned it down on difficulty.

I think what it shows is that passion alone is not quite enough to captain an international side. I agree with those that dislike all the Welsh chat to the referee that goes on, AWJ being the main culprit. There's a case for requesting the odd interpretation from a referee, much like Barclay did, then there's constant badgering as AWJ goes for. Personally, I'd choose Warburton as captain.

I thought AWJ was only given the captains arm band, to give him a chance of be comeing Captain for the Lions.

Something in my mind as well and truly back fired.

It might just be me, but i think Wales have got worse since AWJ took over the Captains role.

Not the type of person you would wan't to be Captain of the Lions. now is it?

Good win for Scotland. Looked almost out of it in 1st half until Halfpenny missed the kick to go 16-6 ahead. From there on in Scotland took control of the game and won well. Was a bit concerned when 29-13 ahead and 10 minutes to go that they were still trying to throw the ball about rather than keeping it tight. But eventually no harm done and last five minutes did that. Great atmosphere from both sets of supporters.

majesticimperialman wrote: No reason Scotland cant win if they play like they did 2nd half there.


Yes there is. England. England won't let them.

Presumably England will be on track to break New Zealand's record by then, that's the kind of game Scotland players should be buzzing about. Triple Crowns, Calcutta Cups and records will be at steak and to quote Kevin Keegan, "I'd love it if we beat them"

Its not just the Triple crown, Calcutta cup and England's record, it's Scotland's shot at the Championship. Scotland win and they're still in the hunt, with just a game against Italy to go to try to max out on bonus points and points difference. With this Scotland team at home, big points are definitely a possibility.

Woah let's not get too carried away here! England will be heavy favourites and have everything in their armoury that can hurt us - mainly a hell of a lot of physicality and forward power.

We should go into the game with a lot of confidence but it would be one of the biggest results in 6N history if we won.

Almost incredibly if, and it is a big if, Scotland could conceivably find themselves in fourth place (even third if everything goes perfectly) in the world rankings.

Can make it to 4th (need to beat England and Wales and England to beat Ireland) but the max points they can climb to with a >15 pt win over England and Italy is 85.18 still shy of Australia on 86.35

It would, but if you do you have a very real shot at the Championship. It will at least be huge motivation for the Scotland team.

robbo277 wrote:Its not just the Triple crown, Calcutta cup and England's record, it's Scotland's shot at the Championship. Scotland win and they're still in the hunt, with just a game against Italy to go to try to max out on bonus points and points difference. With this Scotland team at home, big points are definitely a possibility.

Realistically it will be very difficult for Scotland to win the Six Nations unless they beat England by more than 7 points, if they're top at the end of Round 4 I'd say it's one hand on the trophy. Within one point of the top and we can dare to dream but the truth is England are the best team in Europe, the second best in the world. We haven't beaten them since 2008, we haven't beaten them at Twickenham since 1983. A win in Round 4 would be Scotland's best result since 1990.

poissonrouge wrote:

Almost incredibly if, and it is a big if, Scotland could conceivably find themselves in fourth place (even third if everything goes perfectly) in the world rankings.

Can make it to 4th (need to beat England and Wales and England to beat Ireland) but the max points they can climb to with a >15 pt win over England and Italy is 85.18 still shy of Australia on 86.35

Yeah but if England, somehow, contrive to lose to Italy and Scotland then England will have a fairly dramatic fall.

gatland looked devastated at the end

how on earth can he pick 1 scotsman when a team shorn of half its players just gave the welsh a very fair beating?

Yeah but if England, somehow, contrive to lose to Italy and Scotland then England will have a fairly dramatic fall

If (pretty big if ) England lose to Italy and Scotland by more than 15 pts and lose to Ireland then they drop to 5th in the rankings.

A phenomenal night. The comments from the Welsh fans on here have been wonderful, and the praise getting heaped on our team in the pubs along Rose Street was really nice too. Top lads

So many times I have left Murrayfield to drown my sorrows, felt good walking away with the win.

alive555 wrote:gatland looked devastated at the end

how on earth can he pick 1 scotsman when a team shorn of half its players just gave the welsh a very fair beating?

If Wales lose to Ireland it becomes very hard for Gatland to justify selecting more than five of their players, pick only five Welshmen and Gatland finds himself in a difficult place coming back next season.

He's really between a rock and hard place. This is why if the Lions have to select an existing coach of the home nations it should have to be the coach of the dominant team.

majesticimperialman wrote:Just been looking on bbc sport. AWJ says he wanted to take the three points kick at goal.

The kickers said NO. go for the line out.

Well who is in charge AWJ? You or the kickers?

do you need us to spell it out for you? Clearly not AWJ.

Gwlad wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Just been looking on bbc sport. AWJ says he wanted to take the three points kick at goal.

The kickers said NO. go for the line out.

Well who is in charge AWJ? You or the kickers?

do you need us to spell it out for you? Clearly not AWJ.

Wasn't Biggar or Webb either - they were too busy refereeing

Now, now! It's Lions unity of spirit week.......................

Luckily Gatland was there and witnessed the entire debacle, looked like he was chewing at least 1 wasp.

For the sake of balance it's worth pointing out that International teams now have 'leadership' groups that take some of the pressure and some of the responsibility from the captain, as Biggar is the fly-half and Halfpenny is the kicker and one of the more experienced members of the team it may not be as simple as Alun Wyn Jones was overruled. There may be a set protocol within the Wales set up. There is clearly a stated tactic of going to the corner rather than taking the three points. That cost Wales against Scotland and against England. They seem obsessed with going for that one knockout blow, failing to get it gives the other team an enormous psychological boost and a setback for the attacking side. There was a moment in 'Building Jerusalem' when Matt Dawson is talking about the world cup final, England won a scrum penalty on the Australian line and all the forwards wanted to have another go and Martin Johnson said to calm down and take the three.