6N 2017: England vs Scotland

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ENGLAND v SCOTLAND
Saturday 10th March
16:00 GMT
Twickenham Stadium

Live on ITV, RTE, FR2, DMAX

Referee - Matthieu Raynal
AR1 - Romain Poite
AR2 - Marius Mitrea
TMO - Ben Skeen

A. Head to Head

134 Played 134
74 Won 42
18 Drawn 18
42 Lost 74
1,562 Points 1,141

B. Recent Form

6 February 2016
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
9 – 15 to England

14 March 2015
Twickenham, London
25 – 13 to England

8 February 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 20 to England

2 February 2013
Twickenham, London
38 – 18 to England

4 February 2012
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
6 – 13 to England

C. Teams

ENGLAND


Starting XV:

15. Mike Brown (vice captain, Harlequins, 58 caps), 14. Jack Nowell  (Exeter Chiefs, 21 caps), 13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 31 caps), 12. Owen Farrell (vice captain, Saracens, 50 caps), 11. Elliot Daly (Wasps, 11 caps), 10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 33 caps), 9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 68 caps), 1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 49 caps), 2. Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 82 caps), 3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 72 caps), 4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 40 caps) , 5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 56 caps), 6. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 10 caps), 7. James Haskell (Wasps, 73 caps) , 8. Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 6 caps).

Finishers

16. Jamie George (Saracens, 15 caps), 17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 40 caps), 18. Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 6 caps), 19. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 48 caps), 20. Billy Vunipola (vice captain, Saracens 32 caps), 21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 69 caps), 22. Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors, 6 caps), 23. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 24 caps).

SCOTLAND


Starting XV

15. Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 51 caps; 16 tries, 3 pens, 89 points
14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 34 caps; 15 tries, 75 points
13. Huw Jones (Stormers) – 6 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
12. Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps; 6 tries, 30 points
11. Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 29 caps; 12 tries, 60 points
10. Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps; 2 tries, 5 cons, 8 pens, 44 points
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps

1. Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps
2. Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 23 caps
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
4. Richie Gray (Toulouse) – 63 caps; 3 tries, 15 points
5. Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 31 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
6. John Barclay CAPTAIN (Scarlets) – 58 caps; 4 tries, 20 points
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 8 caps; 1 try, 5 points
8. Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps

Substitutes:
16. Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 105 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
17. Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – 6 caps
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
19. Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 27 caps; 1 try, 5 points
20. Cornell Du Preez (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
21. Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps; 4 tries, 3 pens, 29 points
22. Duncan Weir (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps; 2 tries, 7 cons, 10 pens, 1 drop, 57 points
23. Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps; 6 tries, 30 points

kingelderfield wrote:Really, really hope Billy Vunipola is not coming back to soon?

Ofcourse we've missed him, and I think everyone would agree that Hughes is quite a long way back along the development curve, and probably does not possess the same overall potential? However looking at the bigger picture, the longer term should definitely be the priority and by and large we have managed without the 3 Saracen's plus Robshaw - which I think has to be to the good in terms of squad development.

This weekend at Newcastle will tell us much. Baby steps Billy.

Billy has come off after a very impressive 71 minutes. As long as there is no reaction I can see NO REASON for him not to be included in the 23 and Jones being Jones I would not be surprised if he starts.

You're arguing against your own choices now.

Judging by the news re Billy V, and the fact the Scottish th has been under pressure, I'm tempted to give marler the day off. My squad for Scotland:

Mako
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Launchbury
Itoje
Haskell
Hughes

Young's
Ford
Daly
Farrell
Joseph
Nowell
Brown


Genge
George
Sinckler
Clifford
Billy V
Care
Slade
Watson

Should provide cover. Not a bad bench eh?!

I didn't think Billy looked too good today fitness wise, certainly not to start. Mako showed up a little better but neither were that good really.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're arguing against your own choices now.

Look chap whatever affliction life has bestowed upon you, well we can all pity you for that, but please go and troll elsewhere will you.

Not trolling. Just pointing out you're inconsistent to say the least.

I'd definitely start Marler against Scotland. Fagerson is a talented player and a likable one given he's a tight five forward with some dog about him - it's been a dying breed that's hopefully on a come back. He's been under pressure in the scrum making the step-up though and Marler is the most consistent scrummaging LH in the squad.

Mako is much improved in the scrum but still not as consistent as Marler.

Mullan is a solid scrummager but not as good as Marler. He's a useful option if injuries hit because of how solid he is at set-piece.

Genge is a very talented scrummager but one with a lot to learn. He is capable of taking his opposing TH to the cleaners. He's also liable of always going on the offensive at scrum time regardless of how his sides scrum are going, field position and circumstances in the match. It's a tactic that can both win and concede penalties.

Starting Marler also lends itself to Jamie George being on the pitch when Mako comes on. The scrum has regularly improved when George comes on regardless of who the props are. That said Mako does seem to be more comfortable with his club team mate next to him.

It's a matter of opinion, I'm an ex tighthead. Mine was marler wasn't required as mako can deal with fagerson, and it's debatably a starter and sub lh that can play a faster more open game. You've said no start with marler and possibly get pens in the scrum I'm thinking? Depending on your game plan suits either, yours is the more likely option Jones will take. However I'm saying my choice could still work as we won't need the best scrummager.

Pretty relaxed about who starts this one. Fagerson has high potential, but he's a long way behind even Sinckler in his learning curve. I think England will put the Scotland pack under pressure one way or another, and if Billy isn't fit enough to start, Mako's carrying could be handy in the early stages.

With both fit and on form, I think Eddie prefers to start with Marler to anchor things and use Mako for impact later in the game. Until Genge is ready to oust one of them - which may not be for some time, given that both of them are still very young in prop years - I wouldn't expect that to change.

Fagerson's struggles mainly came against France in Paris up against a gigantic pack that were well led by Guirado from the front row. He is a scrummager with a lot to learn but not the glaring weakness that some suggest.

Do Scotland fans think there's any chance that Al Dickinson will be recalled after returning for Edinburgh? That would bolster the Scots scrum even if from the bench.

I'm not a fan of milking penalties from the scrum. I'd much rather that England use an upper-hand  to give Hughes a platform to run from and give their 9/10/12 space to move the ball wide from first phase.

There's also a significant debate as to whether Mako is fit to start a test match yet. When he's struggling for match fitness the first thing to go is usually his scrummaging.

nlpnlp wrote:Well I don't think you are going to beat the All Blacks with speed and finesse.  It is going to be Northern Hemisphere brute power, and nothing says more brute power than that back row.  For me that is probably the starting 3 I would go for, with as powerful a front five as possible.  With Gatland as coach, I think we can expect power throughout the team.

The bokke typically do brute power better than us, and they don't win too many against the all blacks either.

As others have pointed we are missing our 1st choice tight head and our 1st choice loose head. It's brutal, but Fagerson, Brown and Reid have fronted up well against some really strong frontrows in the challenge cup, particularly against Racing and munster.

But Fagerson at 21 is just a boy in Prop terms. I think a few years in from now we'll be grateful he's got this kind of exposure so early in his career

king_carlos wrote:Fagerson's struggles mainly came against France in Paris up against a gigantic pack that were well led by Guirado from the front row. He is a scrummager with a lot to learn but not the glaring weakness that some suggest.

Do Scotland fans think there's any chance that Al Dickinson will be recalled after returning for Edinburgh? That would bolster the Scots scrum even if from the bench.

I'm not a fan of milking penalties from the scrum. I'd much rather that England use an upper-hand  to give Hughes a platform to run from and give their 9/10/12 space to move the ball wide from first phase.

There's also a significant debate as to whether Mako is fit to start a test match yet. When he's struggling for match fitness the first thing to go is usually his scrummaging.

You might see a cameo from the bench from Ally, but IMO like Billy this match might just be a week too early.

Yeah like I said, I would expect marler to start and mako to come on as that's the usual. Guess once it's in the refs head we're on top in the scrums then he'll ping away. But, like you said ( as I'm not sure billy will start, Jones seems to bring people back via bench) the carrying options were reduced. Like I said, depends on the game plan, I think mako could handle the fella, get the ball and yeah tbh that bench was a factor it's a hell of a bench. Maybe I, or a few, are getting too infatuated with the bench and it'd be nice to already have the game before their insertion, for once.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Fagerson's struggles mainly came against France in Paris up against a gigantic pack that were well led by Guirado from the front row. He is a scrummager with a lot to learn but not the glaring weakness that some suggest.

Do Scotland fans think there's any chance that Al Dickinson will be recalled after returning for Edinburgh? That would bolster the Scots scrum even if from the bench.

I'm not a fan of milking penalties from the scrum. I'd much rather that England use an upper-hand  to give Hughes a platform to run from and give their 9/10/12 space to move the ball wide from first phase.

There's also a significant debate as to whether Mako is fit to start a test match yet. When he's struggling for match fitness the first thing to go is usually his scrummaging.

You might see a cameo from the bench from Ally, but IMO like Billy this match might just be a week too early.

How did he go on Friday?

The tighthead depth at Scottish clubs is well summed up by Murray McCallum being thrown in the deep end with Edinburgh this season. The guy is a big talent and has performed well in the circumstances but I don't think even the most mystic Edinburgh fans would claim to have predicted his exposure this season!

Edit: Scratch the questions on Dickinson. Just read a match report in full to see that he was stretchered off after 45 minutes. Such a shame when that happens on a players return from a long injury lay-off.

Well I hadn't seen the match but that's bad...

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not trolling. Just pointing out you're inconsistent to say the least.

Not required thanks.

Not trolling, utter bs. When have you ever, ever contributed a positive insightful apology on this site, I ask you honestly, when?

You're nothing but a parasitical nitpicker feeding of the intuition of others.

Have you even ever started a thread or heaven forbid, without reaction to some poor soul's considered opinion, volunteered your own mindful argument discussing this or supporting that?

I'll tell you when. Never!

So going forward just don't bother.

Thanks, but no thanks.

kingelderfield wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Really, really hope Billy Vunipola is not coming back to soon?

Ofcourse we've missed him, and I think everyone would agree that Hughes is quite a long way back along the development curve, and probably does not possess the same overall potential? However looking at the bigger picture, the longer term should definitely be the priority and by and large we have managed without the 3 Saracen's plus Robshaw - which I think has to be to the good in terms of squad development.

This weekend at Newcastle will tell us much. Baby steps Billy.

Billy has come off after a very impressive 71 minutes. As long as there is no reaction I can see NO REASON for him not to be included in the 23 and Jones being Jones I would not be surprised if he starts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39175184

Billy's back!

Happy with that. I'll be even happier if he's parachuted straight in. Mainly because I don't think he's match fit and ready for the intensity that Saturday's test match is sure to have

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not trolling. Just pointing out you're inconsistent to say the least.

while it is true that the only thing one can say about you is that you are consistent, day in day out.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Happy with that. I'll be even happier if he's parachuted straight in. Mainly because I don't think he's match fit and ready for the intensity that Saturday's test match is sure to have

He played a solid 72 minutes on Sunday, so even if he's not fully match fit he's not that far off. Probably good enough for 30 minutes off the bench, I would have thought.

Billy might change things

Scots only win by a score

A positive insightful apology eh? I'll just wait until you flip flap back king and say why on earth was Vunipola picked after picking up a knock vs Scotland!

If only it were your failure to comprehend, but alas no it is your tediously reactionary Orwellian responsivness that is so dull.
Are you a logaritham?

Quite an awkward moment at the pre-match event where Hamish Watson found himself standing next to Billy Vunipola in the queue for the gents:

Sorry if you just want to make random picks for your England side and have no one query why you never pick the same side twice. Or make a bold statement on not picking Billy followed by a passion ed statement on ehy he should be picked. Both fine and I can see both sides of that argument but the fact is you can never make up your mind! Used to think that you fid it deliberately just to have pops on Lancaster but it's just that you'll change your mind every other game and expect coaches to chase form rather than build a side.

George Carlin wrote:Quite an awkward moment at the pre-match event where Hamish Watson found himself standing next to Billy Vunipola in the queue for the gents:

I think we should win but not pish all over you

Billy should be on the bench vs Scotland instead of Wood. No need to throw him in to start vs Scotland.

Bench will likely play the decisive factor just like vs France,Wales and Italy anyway.

I'd actually leave Mako,George and Billy all on the bench together with all 3 potentially being in contention to start vs Ireland if they play well and stay fit.

kingelderfield well said.

The fear has set in - England are going to be able to put out a meaty pack that will bully us into submission, allowing the fast boys out wide to ruin riot.

Being honest I think we'll see a similar game to 2 years ago - England with a lightening start getting a few early tries. We launch a spirited fightback but ultimately lose something like 34-20.

Happy Monday!

Well no addition call ups to the Scotland squad yet, so it looks like BVC may just be running with what he has got. Peter Horne, who did play well on Saturday, will be disappointed if that is the case.

Dickinson, crocked before he got the chance and Taylor has done a hammy again, neither player really having much luck this season. Bradbury hobbled off as well against Osprey's but he was only ever an outside call in any case. Denton did not really set the heather alight in a poor Bath performance, so not really making an outstanding case.

Unless there are any more injuries, it seems like he is going to run with what he has got.

I would go with the same starting team as against Wales. Probably the only bone of contention is to whether Maitland comes back in instead of Visser. For me Timbo did enough to stay on, but it is not going to weaken the side if Maitland does come back in.

That just leaves the bench, with a back row player to come in. Could it be CDP or Harley. If it is impact we are looking for then surely it must be CDP. Wilson got through a ton of work last time out and looked out on his feet at the end, it will be asking even more of him to do the same against England.

For the back spot, if there is to be no Horne, then surely it must be Bennett, who also had a good game on Saturday. He offers more versatility than Maitland and could cover centre or wing (or Jones could move out).

RDW Scotland what's the lightning start by England based on?

I think Scotland will be 5-7 points up with 20-25 minutes to go but England will overhaul Scotland to win through the power of the bench.

Please leave Maitland out, I think he would shore up the Scottish defence.

With Visser on the wing, he's a nice target.

beshocked wrote:RDW Scotland what's the lightning start by England based on?

I think Scotland will be 5-7 points up with 20-25 minutes to go but England will overhaul Scotland to win through the power of the bench.

Please leave Maitland out, I think he would shore up the Scottish defence.

With Visser on the wing, he's a nice target.

After what happened against Italy they are going to be well fired up for this game.  My concern is that they'll come out flying at we'll struggle to contain their big ball carriers getting over the gainline. That in turn will lead to front foot possession for the backs and we could be run ragged.

It is just a concern I have - doesn't mean it is going to happen!

RDW Scotland I love your optimism I really do. I'd love England to come out of the blocks fast but there's just not been sign England will do this.

Plus some of our best ball carriers will be on the bench.

I just feel like there needs to be a good reason for the change. Personally I think England have been too lethargic so far because there are too many players not in good form.

Scotland in contrast have been playing well mostly. I believe Scotland will need to build a significant lead going into the last 20-25 to win. Something you are capable of admittedly.

I agree, I reckon we need to be up by about 14-20 points going into that last quarter.

I'll be interested to see how England manage their kicking game. Against France they got shredded on the counter attack by Spedding! If they kick so loosley to Hogg, Visser and Seymour I reckon they'll do some serious damage.

England will need to get their kicks chased to put the likes of Hogg under pressure and give him as little time as possible to analyze his counter attacking options.

Apparently Newcastle's scrum gave Sarries a tough examination at the weekend yet there is still no sign that Jon Welsh will be called up to the bench.

As most posters have rightly observed the strength of England's bench will be better than the Scottish one. Berghan terrifies me as his inability to scrummage at the top level will be cruelly exposed if Fargerson runs out of gas after 60 minutes. I still have nightmares about  Paris where Berghan and his giant beard basically ran away from Xavier Chiocci during one humiliating scrum.

if Billy V is sitting on the bench as well, having come through a good 71 minute workout then that also fills me with dread.

ruggerradge2611 it's a good point.

Tactically for England I'd look to get the ball into touch more which obviously prevents the back three from counter attacking and try to attack the Scottish lineout.

Need to starve your back three of ball.

Will also slow the game down, getting the ball into touch more.

Disrupting an oppositions rhythm I think is crucial to winning a game. Take them out of their comfort zone.

For Scotland that means keep the tempo high, put pace on the ball. Our forwards are big but not the quickest.

sensiball the Saracens scrum isn't as strong without George,Kruis and Itoje. Wouldn't look too much into it. The 2nd row had Hamilton and Rhodes! Brits seems to be on the decline.

I'm just not that concerned about these big English forwards, sure they are big, mean and horrible but not any worse than the French or Irish.

I'm far more concerned about Daly, Nowell and Farrell. Guys who have genuine pace, vision and attacking accumen. We really haven't been tested like that in the 6N yet.

We've dealt with physical game reasonably well (apart from the French) but even then we only leaked 1 try.

Its the pace out wide that could really cause issues. I just hope Hogg has a good day defensively because he'll be quite busy I think.

Apparently Newcastle's scrum gave Sarries a tough examination at the weekend

I'm not sure where you got that from, we were hammered for most of the game.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm just not that concerned about these big English forwards, sure they are big, mean and horrible but not any worse than the French or Irish.

I'm far more concerned about Daly, Nowell and Farrell. Guys who have genuine pace, vision and attacking accumen. We really haven't been tested like that in the 6N yet.

We've dealt with physical game reasonably well (apart from the French) but even then we only leaked 1 try.

Its the pace out wide that could really cause issues. I just hope Hogg has a good day defensively because he'll be quite busy I think.

They don't need to be worse than the French though. Anything close and England will control territory much better than the French (who are hopeless at it).

ruggerradge2611

Of course I am biased but think Mako,George and Billy are 3 of the best players in Europe in their respective positions and England can bring off them off the bench.

Perhaps but I think Mako,George,Sinckler and Billy have the attributes to cause a whole host of problems from the bench, they aren't just boshers either. I've seen some excellent handling from them.

If the England pack is creaking, then they'll turn it around, if momentum is being lost they'll up it. Also it will be against tired Scottish forwards.

I don't think Scotland have anyone better, even in the starting line up.

Scotland have not faced a bench of the caliber of England, so far no side has been able to stop the impact.

If England keep basing their strategy on their strong bench and their ability to chase down a lead in the last 10 mins of a game, then they are going to come unstuck at some stage. This weekend may or may not be the time but I would imagine that any coach in the world would rather be defending a lead in the last 10 mins rather than trying to chase one down. Luck is going to run out at some stage, Wales were only one poor kick away from winning their game and Wales are not a great side at the moment.

Scotland will play for 80 mins, they have done in every game so far, including coming back from being behind against the Irish, a game that we finished the stronger side. We are actually getting quite good at closing out games now, not historically our strong point.

We may not have as strong a bench as England, but we will have players who can play for 80 mins. If we are in the lead as the match comes to its conclusion, I would fancy us to close it out. We just need to stay in the game to give ourselves that chance.

BigGee wrote:If England keep basing their strategy on their strong bench and their ability to chase down a lead in the last 10 mins of a game, then they are going to come unstuck at some stage. This weekend may or may not be the time but I would imagine that any coach in the world would rather be defending a lead in the last 10 mins rather than trying to chase one down. Luck is going to run out at some stage, Wales were only one poor kick away from winning their game and Wales are not a great side at the moment.

Scotland will play for 80 mins, they have done in every game so far, including coming back from being behind against the Irish, a game that we finished the stronger side. We are actually getting quite good at closing out games now, not historically our strong point.

We may not have as strong a bench as England, but we will have players who can play for 80 mins. If we are in the lead as the match comes to its conclusion, I would fancy us to close it out. We just need to stay in the game to give ourselves that chance.

It has nothing to do with luck and JD2's kick wasn't the last play of the game so you can't actually that was the difference, people forget we should have had penalty in the build up to that.

Scotland have played for two 40 minutes so far, you were abject against Wales for the first 40 minutes and should have been out of it entirely and the last 30 against Ireland was equally poor.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

BigGee wrote:If England keep basing their strategy on their strong bench and their ability to chase down a lead in the last 10 mins of a game, then they are going to come unstuck at some stage. This weekend may or may not be the time but I would imagine that any coach in the world would rather be defending a lead in the last 10 mins rather than trying to chase one down. Luck is going to run out at some stage, Wales were only one poor kick away from winning their game and Wales are not a great side at the moment.

Scotland will play for 80 mins, they have done in every game so far, including coming back from being behind against the Irish, a game that we finished the stronger side. We are actually getting quite good at closing out games now, not historically our strong point.

We may not have as strong a bench as England, but we will have players who can play for 80 mins. If we are in the lead as the match comes to its conclusion, I would fancy us to close it out. We just need to stay in the game to give ourselves that chance.

It has nothing to do with luck and JD2's kick wasn't the last play of the game so you can't actually that was the difference, people forget we should have had penalty in the build up to that.

Scotland have played for two 40 minutes so far, you were abject against Wales for the first 40 minutes and should have been out of it entirely and the last 30 against Ireland was equally poor.

That's us told. I guess we shouldn't bother turning up.

BigGee wrote:If England keep basing their strategy on their strong bench and their ability to chase down a lead in the last 10 mins of a game, then they are going to come unstuck at some stage. This weekend may or may not be the time but I would imagine that any coach in the world would rather be defending a lead in the last 10 mins rather than trying to chase one down. Luck is going to run out at some stage, Wales were only one poor kick away from winning their game and Wales are not a great side at the moment.

Scotland will play for 80 mins, they have done in every game so far, including coming back from being behind against the Irish, a game that we finished the stronger side. We are actually getting quite good at closing out games now, not historically our strong point.

We may not have as strong a bench as England, but we will have players who can play for 80 mins. If we are in the lead as the match comes to its conclusion, I would fancy us to close it out. We just need to stay in the game to give ourselves that chance.

BigGee not a tactic I'd use vs Ireland away but Scotland home, should still work.

I think it's bold to say Scotland will play for 80 minutes, they haven't so far. Saw a big lead vanish vs Ireland, under the cosh from France for most of the game.

I don't think Scotland have anyone capable of stopping the English bench. Most sides struggle with Billy when he's starting let alone coming on fresh vs tired players.

He's not had many games from the bench but I still remember him and his brother running rampant from the bench vs Fiji in the RWC which helped us get the try bonus.

Then you add others from the bench who will put the squeeze. You seriously think the Scottish pack will be able to handle them?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

BigGee wrote:If England keep basing their strategy on their strong bench and their ability to chase down a lead in the last 10 mins of a game, then they are going to come unstuck at some stage. This weekend may or may not be the time but I would imagine that any coach in the world would rather be defending a lead in the last 10 mins rather than trying to chase one down. Luck is going to run out at some stage, Wales were only one poor kick away from winning their game and Wales are not a great side at the moment.

Scotland will play for 80 mins, they have done in every game so far, including coming back from being behind against the Irish, a game that we finished the stronger side. We are actually getting quite good at closing out games now, not historically our strong point.

We may not have as strong a bench as England, but we will have players who can play for 80 mins. If we are in the lead as the match comes to its conclusion, I would fancy us to close it out. We just need to stay in the game to give ourselves that chance.

It has nothing to do with luck and JD2's kick wasn't the last play of the game so you can't actually that was the difference, people forget we should have had penalty in the build up to that.

Scotland have played for two 40 minutes so far, you were abject against Wales for the first 40 minutes and should have been out of it entirely and the last 30 against Ireland was equally poor.

Actually the last 30 against Ireland was not really poor, we had a poor 20 mins at the beginning of the second half when Ireland played really well and took the game right back from us. We then re-grouped and came back and won it in the last 10 mins.

I was not suggesting we have played our best rugby for a full 80 mins yet, but we have been in every game and have not run out of gas, even against the French when we were getting murdered in the scrums. You may win by out playing us, but I don't think you will by outlasting us.

I fully expect a close game but you're only chance is to perform like you did against Wales 2nd half for the full game and I don't see that happening.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

BigGee wrote:If England keep basing their strategy on their strong bench and their ability to chase down a lead in the last 10 mins of a game, then they are going to come unstuck at some stage. This weekend may or may not be the time but I would imagine that any coach in the world would rather be defending a lead in the last 10 mins rather than trying to chase one down. Luck is going to run out at some stage, Wales were only one poor kick away from winning their game and Wales are not a great side at the moment.

Scotland will play for 80 mins, they have done in every game so far, including coming back from being behind against the Irish, a game that we finished the stronger side. We are actually getting quite good at closing out games now, not historically our strong point.

We may not have as strong a bench as England, but we will have players who can play for 80 mins. If we are in the lead as the match comes to its conclusion, I would fancy us to close it out. We just need to stay in the game to give ourselves that chance.

It has nothing to do with luck and JD2's kick wasn't the last play of the game so you can't actually that was the difference, people forget we should have had penalty in the build up to that.

Scotland have played for two 40 minutes so far, you were abject against Wales for the first 40 minutes and should have been out of it entirely and the last 30 against Ireland was equally poor.

Scotland weren't poor against Ireland in the last 30, in fact if you are talking about the Irish dominance it came from 40 mins to 70 mins. In the last 10 Scotland took the game away from Ireland.

Like I said we weren't poor we were simply Starved of possession. The way the first 30 of the second half was how I saw the whole game going. it was just Scotland were extraordinarily clinical with the ball we had. It is very unusual for any team to utterly dominate for 80 minutes. Only Ireland against Italy have really done that this 6N. In all the other games one team or another has been in the ascendancy. Same goes for the Wales game. Scotland did not play badly in fact our defense was really good and forced mistakes from the Welsh attack and forced turnovers.

When we did get meaningful possession in the 2nd half we converted it into points and scored 20 unanswered, no mean feat for any team to be honest.

For me, Scotland have been the best team in the 6N thusfar, I base that on the fact that when we have the ball we are patient and we are dangerous. I also base it on the fact that when we don't have the ball we defend very well and have a good turnover strike rate. I also base it on the fact that we have the best lineout in the 6N with a 100% completion rate. If only our scrum was stronger. This is the area where we have given ground, but as I said Fagerson is just 21 years old and has many years ahead of him, this experience will do him good.

England are the better side, but so far I think Scotland have performed better in this tournament.

sensisball wrote:Apparently Newcastle's scrum gave Sarries a tough examination at the weekend yet there is still no sign that Jon Welsh will be called up to the bench.

As most posters have rightly observed the strength of England's bench will be better than the Scottish one. Berghan terrifies me as his inability to scrummage at the top level will be cruelly exposed if Fargerson runs out of gas after 60 minutes. I still have nightmares about  Paris where Berghan and his giant beard basically ran away from Xavier Chiocci during one humiliating scrum.

if Billy V is sitting on the bench as well, having come through a good 71 minute workout then that also fills me with dread.

A lot depends on the ref, I seem to recall the commentators speaking about the French loosehead not driving straight so that would obviously prove a problem for whoever was playing tighthead against him. Cotter must reckon from watching him in training that he's a better bench option than Welsh despite Welsh having far more experience, both internationally and at club level. Fingers crossed whoever plays.

History tells us that no side has gone more than 19 games without loss, including the NZers. England's next loss is only just around the corner. Probably against Ireland in Dublin methinks.

beshocked wrote:I don't think Scotland have anyone capable of stopping the English bench. Most sides struggle with Billy when he's starting let alone coming on fresh vs tired players.

He's not had many games from the bench but I still remember him and his brother running rampant from the bench vs Fiji in the RWC which helped us get the try bonus.

Surely there's a difference between V Vunipola when he's on form and V Vunipola when he's half-fit and struggling for lack of game time?

I'll be honest, he was impressive in the first 20 minutes at KP yesterday, but I didn't see anything after that to make me need new trousers. The question for Scotland is a tactical one - should our backrow replacement be Harley to nullify the English attacking momentum, or a CDP to punch holes. I honestly don't see the point in basing our strategy around stopping Viliami.