6N 2017: England vs Scotland

First topic message reminder :

     
ENGLAND v SCOTLAND
Saturday 10th March
16:00 GMT
Twickenham Stadium

Live on ITV, RTE, FR2, DMAX

Referee - Matthieu Raynal
AR1 - Romain Poite
AR2 - Marius Mitrea
TMO - Ben Skeen

A. Head to Head

134 Played 134
74 Won 42
18 Drawn 18
42 Lost 74
1,562 Points 1,141

B. Recent Form

6 February 2016
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
9 – 15 to England

14 March 2015
Twickenham, London
25 – 13 to England

8 February 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 20 to England

2 February 2013
Twickenham, London
38 – 18 to England

4 February 2012
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
6 – 13 to England

C. Teams

ENGLAND


Starting XV:

15. Mike Brown (vice captain, Harlequins, 58 caps), 14. Jack Nowell  (Exeter Chiefs, 21 caps), 13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 31 caps), 12. Owen Farrell (vice captain, Saracens, 50 caps), 11. Elliot Daly (Wasps, 11 caps), 10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 33 caps), 9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 68 caps), 1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 49 caps), 2. Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 82 caps), 3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 72 caps), 4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 40 caps) , 5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 56 caps), 6. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 10 caps), 7. James Haskell (Wasps, 73 caps) , 8. Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 6 caps).

Finishers

16. Jamie George (Saracens, 15 caps), 17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 40 caps), 18. Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 6 caps), 19. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 48 caps), 20. Billy Vunipola (vice captain, Saracens 32 caps), 21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 69 caps), 22. Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors, 6 caps), 23. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 24 caps).

SCOTLAND


Starting XV

15. Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 51 caps; 16 tries, 3 pens, 89 points
14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 34 caps; 15 tries, 75 points
13. Huw Jones (Stormers) – 6 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
12. Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps; 6 tries, 30 points
11. Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 29 caps; 12 tries, 60 points
10. Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps; 2 tries, 5 cons, 8 pens, 44 points
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps

1. Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps
2. Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 23 caps
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
4. Richie Gray (Toulouse) – 63 caps; 3 tries, 15 points
5. Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 31 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
6. John Barclay CAPTAIN (Scarlets) – 58 caps; 4 tries, 20 points
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 8 caps; 1 try, 5 points
8. Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps

Substitutes:
16. Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 105 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
17. Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – 6 caps
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
19. Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 27 caps; 1 try, 5 points
20. Cornell Du Preez (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
21. Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps; 4 tries, 3 pens, 29 points
22. Duncan Weir (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps; 2 tries, 7 cons, 10 pens, 1 drop, 57 points
23. Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps; 6 tries, 30 points

Hope the desperation to rush Billy back doesn't backfire.

I wouldn't start Billy vs Scotland. It's unfair on him.

Should ease him back in off the bench then potentially start him vs Ireland.

Danger of breaking him. I will be livid if England mess him up by rushing him back.

beshocked wrote:If rating a player's performance was just based on effort I'd give Hughes a 9 vs Wales, it's just I felt like he battled hard but wasn't as effective as England need him to be.

Was his best performance though. Was woeful vs Italy in contrast.

You have an extremely strange rating system. Itoje was excellent against Italy, yet Hughes was woeful????

Hughes was the first player to test the Italy "no ruck" system and carried well through the centre all game. He also made some great little offloads.....yet he was woeful.

Itoje did little to receive any praise, quite possibly his worst game in an England jersey. His worst game after the prior one against Wales and then France before that.

Look I get it you missed the game, you've made it clear. Hughes was a penalty machine, knocked on an easy pass and was generally a liability. Wasn't particularly effective in ball carrying.

Seriously you are deluded - it's why I have absolutely no respect for your opinion.

Itoje did little except for all the things I've mentioned - if you watched the game you'd know.

My favourite thing was when Itoje bundled a 'frightened' Italian into touch. Frightened he was. Scared witless. Think he wet himself a little. Argghhhh not the touchline.

f**k sake chaps give it a rest now eh.

It's seriously ruining this thread.

I'd have Itoje on a similar level to Hughes in that Italy game. Neither were woeful, neither were great.

I suggest we don't comment on each others post from now on BS, it's getting boring.

I can't imagine that Jones would accidentally leave out that board in the telegraph article. Like the overall plan at the top...use lineout and maul...beat Scotland.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I can't imagine that Jones would accidentally leave out that board in the telegraph article. Like the overall plan at the top...use lineout and maul...beat Scotland.

Out of the 4 changes, do you think any won't happen? Do you think there will be any additional ones? Wouldn't put it passed Jones to be double-bluffing on this one, as all the changes are reasonable.

beshocked wrote:Hope the desperation to rush Billy back doesn't backfire.

I wouldn't start Billy vs Scotland. It's unfair on him.

Should ease him back in off the bench then potentially start him vs Ireland.

Danger of breaking him. I will be livid if England mess him up by rushing him back.

I feel we've had this discussion before, but my opinion is that if there's an increased risk of injury, he isn't fit and shouldn't play at all.

If he's physically fit enough to bench, he's fit enough to start and it's just how Jones best wants to manage his resources.

Match fitness and readiness are obviously different things to physical fitness and it's up to Jones and co to determine that.

I think the Vunipola change is pushing it robbo but for me it's just another layer of Jones playing games. Get the media talking about what he wants.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I think the Vunipola change is pushing it robbo but for me it's just another layer of Jones playing games. Get the media talking about what he wants.

That one surprised me, but if Jones thinks he's ready then I can see him making it. Although I suppose he did bring Haskell back off the bench for a couple of weeks, Haskell had been out for longer, so unsure whether it's comparable or not.

Well him and the teams Dr's and physios will know better. It sure would be nice to have him back.

Barclay confirmed as Scotland captain again

beshocked wrote:Hope the desperation to rush Billy back doesn't backfire.

I wouldn't start Billy vs Scotland. It's unfair on him.

Should ease him back in off the bench then potentially start him vs Ireland.

Danger of breaking him. I will be livid if England mess him up by rushing him back.

Is there a desperation? Is he being rushed back?

You don't have access to the data that the coaches do, so i'm not sure how you would know better than them.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I can't imagine that Jones would accidentally leave out that board in the telegraph article. Like the overall plan at the top...use lineout and maul...beat Scotland.

Stolen my tactics.

nathan wrote:

beshocked wrote:Hope the desperation to rush Billy back doesn't backfire.

I wouldn't start Billy vs Scotland. It's unfair on him.

Should ease him back in off the bench then potentially start him vs Ireland.

Danger of breaking him. I will be livid if England mess him up by rushing him back.

Is there a desperation? Is he being rushed back?

You don't have access to the data that the coaches do, so i'm not sure how you would know better than them.

Also a love type unfair on Hughes who hasn't played badly

May well be that Billy's injury was not as bad as first feared. One of the best things about him normally is a high workrate for such a big guy- I suspect we won't be seeing so much of that on Saturday but it will be good to have him back

England have named their 24 and Clifford has been omitted.

Marker, Mako Vunipola, Hartley, George, Cole, Sinckler
Launchbury, Lawes
Itoje, Haskell, Wood, Billy Vunipola, Hughes
Youngs, Care
Ford, Farrell
Te'o, Joseph
Daly, May, Nowell, Watson, Brown

Looks like there is an extra back three player in there, possibly still a question mark over Watson.

A back 3 of Daly, Nowell and May would be the worst outcome for Scotland IMO.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Barclay confirmed as Scotland captain again

It couldn't be anyone else. He has been tremendous all tournament and put in a huge shift against Wales. He will definitely be on the lighter end in terms of the backrow players he'll be against on Saturday but I have every confidence in him.

The english forwards are looking very strong, however lets not forget that this scottish side are no mugs.

Over confidence, arrogance? Not really just the fact that scotland are the real deal just as much as we are and more's the point they're the form side.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:A back 3 of Daly, Nowell and May would be the worst outcome for Scotland IMO.

May has been knickers all tournament. Bring him on

If there's one thing I like about Jones, it's his ability to find totally oblique, out-of-the-box performance indicators for his team to concentrate on.

For example, I don't honestly think anyone expected his objective to be 'BEAT SCOTLAND'.

The man's a freaking genius.

IanBru wrote:If there's one thing I like about Jones, it's his ability to find totally oblique, out-of-the-box performance indicators for his team to concentrate on.

For example, I don't honestly think anyone expected his objective to be 'BEAT SCOTLAND'.

The man's a freaking genius.

He said that?  Bloody hell, he really is a freakin' genius.  OK, to be fair, Lancaster would have wanted a 'good performance'.

I am really looking forward to this match.  Hopefully lives up to the hype - and no reason why not.

IanBru wrote:If there's one thing I like about Jones, it's his ability to find totally oblique, out-of-the-box performance indicators for his team to concentrate on.

For example, I don't honestly think anyone expected his objective to be 'BEAT SCOTLAND'.

The man's a freaking genius.

Just in case anyone here is new to the sport or these boards, I feel that it is always helpful to clarify:

  

       Eddie Jones                A regular goblin

George Carlin wrote:

IanBru wrote:If there's one thing I like about Jones, it's his ability to find totally oblique, out-of-the-box performance indicators for his team to concentrate on.

For example, I don't honestly think anyone expected his objective to be 'BEAT SCOTLAND'.

The man's a freaking genius.

Just in case anyone here is new to the sport or these boards, I feel that it is always helpful to clarify:

  

       Eddie Jones                A regular goblin

A goblin leading the white orcs.. Very good

I'm leaning towards double bluff on this one but I don't think it makes much difference. It won't change Englands game plan either way so it wont change how Scotland prepare.

I reckon he will name

Marler
Hartley
Cole
Launch
Lawes
Itoje
Haskell
Hughes
Youngs
Ford
Daly
Farrell
Joseph
Nowell
Brown

Mako
George
Sinckler
Wood
Billy
Care
Te'o
Watson

Some serious firepower on that bench.

A lovely draw please.

To me the questions are over :
Care/Youngs starting
Vunipola starting or bench
Joseph or Teo to start
Nowell or Watson to start

May seems the most likely to drop out of the 24 but it's not a given. JJ could be dropped again with Daley covering 13 and Teo both positions.

Any combination is no radical change or massively controversial. Unless the discussion is between beshocked and 7.5 in which case every choice is wrong and right.

You don't pay attention then goose as my position has been pretty consistent that we have a really good squad with one or two standouts and then the remainder at a very similar level. When I inevitably have a discussion, and it's important to remember it's a forum to do so, it's normally around an insistence that someone is head and shoulders above, the coach doesn't care or ignores what everyone else can plainly see or plain old inconsistency I'm argument.

Look you are both entitled to your opinions, it's just you'd save a lot of time and effort if you asked me what they should be before voicing them

Lol

I can't believe a photograph of some scribbles on a white board has got the rugby press wetter than November.

cascough wrote:I'm leaning towards double bluff on this one but I don't think it makes much difference. It won't change Englands game plan either way so it wont change how Scotland prepare.

I reckon he will name

Marler
Hartley
Cole
Launch
Lawes
Itoje
Haskell
Hughes
Youngs
Ford
Daly
Farrell
Joseph
Nowell
Brown

Mako
George
Sinckler
Wood
Billy
Care
Te'o
Watson

Some serious firepower on that bench.

....and Tom Wood.

Without sounding like a I can't help but think we need a more physical back than Mark Bennett coming off the bench to counteract Ben Teo. Teo has been a real driving force for England off the bench and Benentt isn't going to stop his momentum.

I'm not quite sure who though....

RDW_Scotland wrote:Without sounding like a I can't help but think we need a more physical back than Mark Bennett coming off the bench to counteract Ben Teo. Teo has been a real driving force for England off the bench and Benentt isn't going to stop his momentum.

I'm not quite sure who though....

Graeme Morrison still around?

Hornee Furra Linee, obviously.

I think the best tactic for Scotland, similar to the Italy game is lots of box kicks, touch finders and Garryowens.

Get the England fatties huffing and puffing and move them around as much as possible while putting lots of pressure on their back three.

jimbopip wrote:Hornee Furra Linee, obviously.

Think it's fair to say that would be a step down from Bennett defensively!

jimbopip wrote:Hornee Furra Linee, obviously.

That's funny.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I can't believe a photograph of some scribbles on a white board has got the rugby press wetter than November.

Beshocked is going to flip out when he sees the picture of Vunipola training with the rest of the first XV

I have to pick up ESPN on this though:

scrum.com wrote:Two whiteboards positioned at the side of the pitch at the Six Nations champions' Surrey training base displayed the formations for Tuesday morning's session, indicating that Vunipola is pencilled in at number eight in place of Nathan Hughes.

Who the hell uses pencil on a whiteboard?

Step up the fastest man in Glasgow.....

Mr S lamont to our rescue

RDW_Scotland wrote:Without sounding like a I can't help but think we need a more physical back than Mark Bennett coming off the bench to counteract Ben Teo. Teo has been a real driving force for England off the bench and Benentt isn't going to stop his momentum.

I'm not quite sure who though....

Duncan Taylor would have been the obvious choice but he's out. Matt Scott is a powerful runner but isn't actually a big hitter in defence. Our best defender at centre is Alex Dunbar, so you could just line him up opposite Teo.

The left field pick is, of course, Sean Lamont. But that's "left field" in the Corbyn sense, in other words a generally terrible idea.

R!skysports wrote:Step up the fastest man in Glasgow.....

Mr S lamont to our rescue

I never thought I'd say this, but you beat me to it!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Hornee Furra Linee, obviously.

Think it's fair to say that would be a step down from Bennett defensively!

You are right, Admin Boy, but with Richie V Friar Tucked who else is there? Scott Cummings could come on at 12 and push Dunbar to 13. Or Furra Linee at 12 and Dunbar at 13.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Without sounding like a I can't help but think we need a more physical back than Mark Bennett coming off the bench to counteract Ben Teo. Teo has been a real driving force for England off the bench and Benentt isn't going to stop his momentum.

I'm not quite sure who though....

Duncan Taylor would have been the obvious choice but he's out. Matt Scott is a powerful runner but isn't actually a big hitter in defence. Our best defender at centre is Alex Dunbar, so you could just line him up opposite Teo.

The left field pick is, of course, Sean Lamont. But that's "left field" in the Corbyn sense, in other words a generally terrible idea.

That is true but he is more physical than Bennett mainly because he is bigger!

Bennett is an X-factor player but is a bit of a luxury against England IMO.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Without sounding like a I can't help but think we need a more physical back than Mark Bennett coming off the bench to counteract Ben Teo. Teo has been a real driving force for England off the bench and Benentt isn't going to stop his momentum.

I'm not quite sure who though....

Duncan Taylor would have been the obvious choice but he's out. Matt Scott is a powerful runner but isn't actually a big hitter in defence. Our best defender at centre is Alex Dunbar, so you could just line him up opposite Teo.

The left field pick is, of course, Sean Lamont. But that's "left field" in the Corbyn sense, in other words a generally terrible idea.

That is true but he is more physical than Bennett mainly because he is bigger!

Bennett is an X-factor player but is a bit of a luxury against England IMO.

See? He's getting into the Luvvies' mindset already.

jimbopip wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Hornee Furra Linee, obviously.

Think it's fair to say that would be a step down from Bennett defensively!

You are right, Admin Boy, but with Richie V Friar Tucked who else is there? Scott Cummings could come on at 12 and push Dunbar to 13. Or Furra Linee at 12 and Dunbar at 13.

Why is no-one talking about Chris Dean? Is there a reason?

jimbopip wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Without sounding like a I can't help but think we need a more physical back than Mark Bennett coming off the bench to counteract Ben Teo. Teo has been a real driving force for England off the bench and Benentt isn't going to stop his momentum.

I'm not quite sure who though....

Duncan Taylor would have been the obvious choice but he's out. Matt Scott is a powerful runner but isn't actually a big hitter in defence. Our best defender at centre is Alex Dunbar, so you could just line him up opposite Teo.

The left field pick is, of course, Sean Lamont. But that's "left field" in the Corbyn sense, in other words a generally terrible idea.

That is true but he is more physical than Bennett mainly because he is bigger!

Bennett is an X-factor player but is a bit of a luxury against England IMO.

See? He's getting into the Luvvies' mindset already.

It's amazing how quickly Glasgow fans turn against their own when they are due to leave!

jimbopip wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Without sounding like a I can't help but think we need a more physical back than Mark Bennett coming off the bench to counteract Ben Teo. Teo has been a real driving force for England off the bench and Benentt isn't going to stop his momentum.

I'm not quite sure who though....

Duncan Taylor would have been the obvious choice but he's out. Matt Scott is a powerful runner but isn't actually a big hitter in defence. Our best defender at centre is Alex Dunbar, so you could just line him up opposite Teo.

The left field pick is, of course, Sean Lamont. But that's "left field" in the Corbyn sense, in other words a generally terrible idea.

That is true but he is more physical than Bennett mainly because he is bigger!

Bennett is an X-factor player but is a bit of a luxury against England IMO.

See? He's getting into the Luvvies' mindset already.

I'm just disturbed by the X-Factor reference. I thought RDW was better than that.

I actually think Bennett will be fine. I've never thought of him as a poor defender, and I'm yet to be convinced that Teo is the business, despite some strong cameos whilst England are in control. I'd be far more concerned about their more slippery options at centre, Joseph and Daly.