6N 2017: Ireland v England, 18 March

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IRELAND v ENGLAND
18 March 2017
KO: 17:00 GMT
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Referee: Jerome Garces (France)
Touch judges: Mathieu Raynal (France) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

Live on [BBC, RTE, DMAX, FR2, ITV (H)]

A. Head to Head

131 Played 131
47 Won 76
8 Drawn 8
76 Lost 47
1,079 Points 1,526

B. Recent Form

27 February 2016
Twickenham, London
21 – 10 to England

5 September 2015
Twickenham, London
21 – 13 to England

1 March 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
19 – 9 to Ireland

22 February 2014
Twickenham, London
13 – 10 to England

10 February 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
6 – 12 to England

17 March 2012
Twickenham, London
30 – 9 to England

C. Teams

IRELAND

Payne; Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Zebo; Sexton, Marmion; McGrath, Best (captain), Furlong; Ryan, Henderson; Stander, O'Brien, Heaslip,

Replacements: Scannell, Healy, Ryan, Toner, O'Mahony, McGrath, Jackson, Conway.

ENGLAND

Brown; Watson, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Youngs; Marler, Hartley (captain), Cole; Launchbury, Lawes; Itoje, Haskell, B Vunipola.

Replacements: George, M Vunipola, Sinckler, Wood, Hughes, Care, Te'o, Nowell.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Whatevs and who or what is a DOD

Great to have you back Declan!  You used be called something else as well - after a gun or something! What was it.

By the way, great having EOS back on the telly for his sayings. He said of POM today - ''Heart in Oven, Head in Fridge''. Sums up POM expertly.

Me-109, some Nazi plane.

Should have guessed the anti Schmidt comments were coming from a bogger from Skibbereen. No surprise there.

Me-109 was good craic. I welcome his return, if it's him.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Whatevs and who or what is a DOD

Great to have you back Declan!  You used be called something else as well - after a gun or something! What was it.

By the way, great having EOS back on the telly for his sayings. He said of POM today - ''Heart in Oven, Head in Fridge''. Sums up POM expertly.

Me-109, some Nazi plane.

Should have guessed the anti Schmidt comments were coming from a bogger from Skibbereen. No surprise there.

Steady on. That's a bit much. You come across as very angry probably related to some knacker from mullingar with too much money and got sent to a private school and was bullied due to your accent and background. Very sad. I bet you tried out for the rugby team as well (must have been hilarious). You're probably still having wet dreams about the last time the Kearney brothers played well ( that's a long time ago).

Munchkin wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Whatevs and who or what is a DOD

Great to have you back Declan!  You used be called something else as well - after a gun or something! What was it.

By the way, great having EOS back on the telly for his sayings. He said of POM today - ''Heart in Oven, Head in Fridge''. Sums up POM expertly.

Me-109, some Nazi plane.

Should have guessed the anti Schmidt comments were coming from a bogger from Skibbereen. No surprise there.

Me-109 was good craic. I welcome his return, if it's him.

Oh it's him alright, I'd recognise that swagger anywhere.

SecretFly wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Whatevs and who or what is a DOD

Great to have you back Declan!  You used be called something else as well - after a gun or something! What was it.

By the way, great having EOS back on the telly for his sayings. He said of POM today - ''Heart in Oven, Head in Fridge''. Sums up POM expertly.

Me-109, some Nazi plane.

Should have guessed the anti Schmidt comments were coming from a bogger from Skibbereen. No surprise there.

Me-109 was good craic. I welcome his return, if it's him.

Oh it's him alright, I'd recognise that swagger anywhere.  

Actually, his last post to Guns just confirmed it for me

We're getting a good two sides of the same coin in this thread.

On the one side - Schmidt is a rubbish coach who has won nothing.

On the other - Schmidt is the best coach Ireland has ever had and is above criticism.

Or it might be he is a good coach who hasn't won anything in a while. How's that for middle of the road

Munchkin wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Oh it's him alright, I'd recognise that swagger anywhere.  

Actually, his last post to Guns just confirmed it for me

The Dutch bit is the conundrum.  How come so many 606 Irish fans seem to have a link to the Netherlands?  billy and Gibbo? Now DOD.

Don't tell me they're all the one bollix having a lovely laugh on us all for all these years?  

Rory_Gallagher wrote:We're getting a good two sides of the same coin in this thread.

On the one side - Schmidt is a rubbish coach who has won nothing.

On the other - Schmidt is the best coach Ireland has ever had and is above criticism.

I'm going for a mixture of the two. Good coach who has a poor selection policy, and poor use of the bench. Game plan is a bit limited at times, probably because he doesn't trust the players.

Missing Plumtree.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:We're getting a good two sides of the same coin in this thread.

On the one side - Schmidt is a rubbish coach who has won nothing.

On the other - Schmidt is the best coach Ireland has ever had and is above criticism.

I'm with Geen. Middle ground. Good coach who needs a breath of fresh air rethink on his overall plans. Gotta stop making the forwards work so hard just to gain parity. Backs must be allowed be backs again to take the pressure off. Marmion was good.

SecretFly wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Oh it's him alright, I'd recognise that swagger anywhere.  

Actually, his last post to Guns just confirmed it for me

The Dutch bit is the conundrum.  How come so many 606 Irish fans seem to have a link to the Netherlands?  billy and Gibbo?  Now DOD.

Don't tell me they're all the one bollix having a lovely laugh on us all for all these years?  

Wouldn't surprise me, although I think billy is a friend of DOD's. Be funny if they all get together for a game

SecretFly wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Oh it's him alright, I'd recognise that swagger anywhere.  

Actually, his last post to Guns just confirmed it for me

The Dutch bit is the conundrum.  How come so many 606 Irish fans seem to have a link to the Netherlands?  billy and Gibbo?  Now DOD.

Don't tell me they're all the one bollix having a lovely laugh on us all for all these years?  

Maybe some of us spent some time in Yurop and not in the Anglo-Saxon sphere of influence and might just have a slightly different view.

Yeah, and I still loathe his "which Ulster player shall I slate" policy after each game. I really don't get that one.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Oh it's him alright, I'd recognise that swagger anywhere.  

Actually, his last post to Guns just confirmed it for me

The Dutch bit is the conundrum.  How come so many 606 Irish fans seem to have a link to the Netherlands?  billy and Gibbo?  Now DOD.

Don't tell me they're all the one bollix having a lovely laugh on us all for all these years?  

Maybe some of us spent some time in Yurop and not in the Anglo-Saxon sphere of influence and might just have a slightly different view.

Oh yeah, yis all might be well read Eurokins with the spliffs colouring in the words for a riper view of the world an' all. But it's the numbers I'm interested in. 606 is a small part of the world and yet three of the Irish boys speak fluent Dutch.

No wonder they never make sense.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yeah, and I still loathe his "which Ulster player shall I slate" policy after each game. I really don't get that one.

Was he giving out about Henderson? He's right. That lad had an appalling game

It was reluctant praise or something. He was asked directly about Hendy and he said something like "he played well coming off the bench in the World Cup (almost 2 years ago...) and he needed to play like that for 80 minutes this time". The guy has played plenty for Ireland since. It sounded like a criticism of his tendency to fade in and out of games. It's a fair criticism, but I don't know why he is so public about it with regards to Ulster players, especially after having a great game. It isn't like he doesn't have a team full of inconsistent passengers.

He just doesn't do it with other players. Maybe he and Les aren't the best of buddies. I am genuinely curious.

I was only joking about Henderson. Hadn't a clue that it actually was him you were referring to and that Joe pointed him out.

I don't know what it is Rory. Maybe he thinks the Ulster boys respond to it - the defiance to outplay his 'opinion' of them?
I don't know. It's hardly because he doesn't like Ulster players. They are proving central to the team's efforts. Rory is our Captain, Paddy is on standby for fragile Johnny. And Henderson showed what he can add. You'd have to ask the Ulster players how they communicate with Schmidt in private, behind the scenes. Only they'd be able to confirm or deny that they feel isolated and undervalued when in camp.

They can't say fush and chups properly

SecretFly wrote:I was only joking about Henderson.  Hadn't a clue that it actually was him you were referring to and that Joe pointed him out.

I don't know what it is Rory.  Maybe he thinks the Ulster boys respond to it - the defiance to outplay his 'opinion' of them?  
I don't know.  It's hardly because he doesn't like Ulster players.  They are proving central to the team's efforts.  Rory is our Captain, Paddy is on standby for fragile Johnny.  And Henderson showed what he can add.  You'd have to ask the Ulster players how they communicate with Schmidt in private, behind the scenes.  Only they'd be able to confirm or deny that they feel isolated and undervalued when in camp.

I doubt any Ulster player will improve because they are made a scape goat to the viewing public. Might be a case for one, but I don't think it's a trend specific to Ulster players

I watched Schmidt talk about Henderson, and he did say he had a good game, but then goes on to say about him having a good game against France at the RWC. The implication being, probably, that Henderson has the occasional good game. The having a good game for 80 minutes was interesting. Not sure why he said it, but it is Schmidt that's kept Henderson on the bench because he can also play 6.

Anyway, Henderson to start with Ryan from now on. Toner really isn't an impact player, so fresh blood required. That's just in my biased opinion, of course

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:They can't say fush and chups properly

Sure, at least we can type it.

Munchkin wrote:

Anyway, Henderson to start with Ryan from now on. Toner really isn't an impact player, so fresh blood required. That's just in my biased opinion, of course

Oh bias is a lovely thing - I support it fully  
No, you're right about Toner.  He's an honest old goer who does what is asked of him except what he can't offer - bloodyminded aggression and bile.  Toner is a method actor and I'm sure he'd admit it; a guy who is given a tactical job and tries to do it.  The kind of International that is being played now at the top level (and we should know considering we've beaten all of them up there ) - it needs plenty of aggression through 80 minutes - the desire to force yourself physically.

poissonrouge wrote:I feel I must share this - because I couldn't stop laughing at the visual picture that was conjured up by an article by Chris Rattue on the NZ herald website.
Link to article
I'm afraid it is rather anti English - but the paragraph quoted below (especially the bit in bold) was just hilarious  

White is a great colour to wear for muscle-bound rugby people who want to look menacing. But it also looks a bit cringey when things go wrong. England were wrecking balls in chains. A lot of them looked like overstuffed plastic shopping bags in desperate need of a trolley.

That guy has got a serious chip on his shoulder - can't believe they pay him to write his childish ramblings ...

Rory_Gallagher wrote:We're getting a good two sides of the same coin in this thread.

On the one side - Schmidt is a rubbish coach who has won nothing.

On the other - Schmidt is the best coach Ireland has ever had and is above criticism.

Schmidt is the best coach Ireland has had (in my lifetime) and is worthy of much criticism, as I have given him multiple times in this thread.

Heaf wrote:

ebop wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:Well let Ireland prove what they can do next year.  The door Is open and they had better be a lot better than this.

I'd probably be more concerned with your team and their grand designs on greatness and wanting to be the number 1 team. Because in the three games I've seen in this 6Ns against Wales, France and Ireland they're a fair ways off. Time to just concentrate on being a good team perhaps.

I agree they need to concentrate on being a good team but given they are currently ranked no.2  isn't it logical they'd want to be no.1 even though for sure they've got some way to go?

For sure Heaf, aiming for the top is logical and no doubt the goal. Sounds like Eddie reckons England are right there. They just need the opportunity to prove it.

Eddie says "the All Blacks are there for the taking and we can't wait to play them"

Not sure how the phrase 'there for the taking' is interpreted in England but in NZ it'd be akin to taking candy from a baby

This reeks of fart and no follow through

Eddie is a larikin and quite amusing, but do you back your man or are you cringing a little bit?

wolfball wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:We're getting a good two sides of the same coin in this thread.

On the one side - Schmidt is a rubbish coach who has won nothing.

On the other - Schmidt is the best coach Ireland has ever had and is above criticism.

Schmidt is the best coach Ireland has had (in my lifetime) and is worthy of much criticism, as I have given him multiple times in this thread.

Yes, we are on the same page.

Aahh the old 'I do not like Schmidt because of his links to Leinster because I am from Munster' straw man argument...

This is simply not the case, this is just a feeble way of not being able to counter argument's made.

I simply do not like him as I do not feel he has a very good selection policy, his game plan is limited and has no plan B or C and he say's negative things in the media about players.

On his selection policy. It was very clear for everyone who watched yesterday that POM should start at 6 and CJ at 8. Harsh on Heaslip who has been a legend for Ireland but those two need to play together as they bring more balance. I would also have a fit VdF over SOB. Payne is a good 15 but not the future so TOH should be shown faith and given a shot. Zebo, I like him but I honestly feel that Gilroy would offer more so also should get the job. It really is only down to injuries that these players will get game time in their correct positions. That, to me, is not the sign of a great coach.

Plan A. When it works, it works but every player has to be singing off the same hymn sheet at the same time and that happens rarely. When it does not, plan B and C is to try harder to make plan A work. Again not the sign of a great coach.

Criticisms of players (mainly Ulster) leave a bad taste in my mouth. His comments about Gilroy who scored 3 tries in 33 mins (ok against Italy) were simply poor and Gilroy has not had a look in since. Again not the sign of a great coach in my opinion.

Anyway, enough of Schmidt bashing.

Yesterdays performance was very workmanlike and job done.

It was great to see Marmion get the start and play well, Ireland certainly seemed to have quicker ball with him than Murray. If Marmion got his box kicking to the quality of Murray's then he is a starter over him in my opinion.

The 4,5,6,7,8 axis was the most balanced I have seen for Ireland in a long time and really starved England of the ball. The only change I would make there going forward would be to swap SOB for VdF. Hendo back added a huge amount as well and he took his try perfectly, him and Ryan at 4 and 5 are a great pairing.

Payne made a few early mistakes at 15 but he more than made up for that with his excellent counter attacking. Zebo and Earls were brought into the game more by his presence at 15 and Ireland looked dangerous on the counter.

12 and 13 also worked very well. I was worried about Ringrose but he had an excellent game and looked a real threat with ball in hand.

At the time I assumed the comment about Henderson having to play well for the full 80 mins was a reference to the very late change in the loose forwards due to Heaslip's injury?

That would have caused serious havoc with their "plan A" of when the bench was used, no?

Perhaps the plan had been for Henderson to come off after 60 but that had to be changed?

Well played Ireland. Bit of a nothing weekend all the games were poor.

England, well I'm not really massively concerned by the loss, we've been poor this tournament and need to regroup massively.

Ireland did ok but weren't that good either. As I said to my pals before ko , they weren't going to lose that game.

I'd rather be in England's position though

I thought that Itoje walked on thin ice all game. He could easily have seen a YC a couple of times. Such a great player but when put on the back foot can be a little petulant, that needs to be controlled.

eirebilly wrote:I thought that Itoje walked on thin ice all game. He could easily have seen a YC a couple of times. Such a great player but when put on the back foot can be a little petulant, that needs to be controlled.

Fully agree. Playing for England and Sarries he's probably not used to being in a pack that is getting distressed. He came across a little dirty and I saw a different side to him. Lawes and Launchberry demonstrated their calmness and maturity by playing hard but within the laws.

Even best asked the ref to do something with regards to the late and high tackles being fired in, mostly from Itoje citing the need to protect his players.

Agreed re Maro. He was a bit of a loose cannon and probably hated his day out yesterday. But he's a 22 year old for whom little has gone wrong so far in his fledgling career. When the dust settles, he'll learn more from yesterday's setback than he will from almost all of the many games he's played that and which England won.

I do think that Itoje will learn and he is only 22 but I feel he will have to learn very quickly before he gets a name for himself and gets focussed on more by ref's. Another ref last night may have acted differently and sent him off for 10.

Itoje isn't an issue, he looked far better last season playing right on the edge than he has this year playing more contained.

eirebilly wrote:I do think that Itoje will learn and he is only 22 but I feel he will have to learn very quickly before he gets a name for himself and gets focussed on more by ref's. Another ref last night may have acted differently and sent him off for 10.

Agree with this. I was watching with the sound turned off and at one point I thought he was about to be issued with his marching orders ...and I wasn't going to feel aggrieved.

Much better he keeps his aggression under control. I'll bet the refs will be watching him a bit closer after this match...

Well done Ireland - you Gaelic Party Poopers.

So, is Hartley done?

alfie wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I do think that Itoje will learn and he is only 22 but I feel he will have to learn very quickly before he gets a name for himself and gets focussed on more by ref's. Another ref last night may have acted differently and sent him off for 10.

Agree with this.  I was watching with the sound turned off and at one point I thought he was about to be issued with his marching orders ...and I wasn't going to feel aggrieved.

Much better he keeps his aggression under control.  I'll bet the refs will be watching him a bit closer after this match...

alfie bud, congrats on the 6N title. There are some quality English posters on here so I am very happy for you lads

Don't wish to get too far ahead, however here's hoping this results winds up the wasps contingent for the return next month; Launchbury, Haskell, Hughes & Elliott - we shall see.

Thanks for that , billy...

If anyone was going to spoil the party/inject some reality I'm glad it was your lads

Not sure our pal Trebell totally agrees

ebop wrote:

Heaf wrote:

ebop wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:Well let Ireland prove what they can do next year.  The door Is open and they had better be a lot better than this.

I'd probably be more concerned with your team and their grand designs on greatness and wanting to be the number 1 team. Because in the three games I've seen in this 6Ns against Wales, France and Ireland they're a fair ways off. Time to just concentrate on being a good team perhaps.

I agree they need to concentrate on being a good team but given they are currently ranked no.2  isn't it logical they'd want to be no.1 even though for sure they've got some way to go?

For sure Heaf, aiming for the top is logical and no doubt the goal. Sounds like Eddie reckons England are right there. They just need the opportunity to prove it.

Eddie says "the All Blacks are there for the taking and we can't wait to play them"

Not sure how the phrase 'there for the taking' is interpreted in England but in NZ it'd be akin to taking candy from a baby

This reeks of fart and no follow through

Eddie is a larikin and quite amusing, but do you back your man or are you cringing a little bit?

If he did actually say the ABs are there for the taking then I'd agree that's probably not the smartest thing to say as we all know England still have some way to go yet. Personally though I don't tend to pay too much attention to what coaches say but instead focus on results and we can't deny England have been improving and things generally are going in the right direction - whether that's Eddie being a good coach or inheriting a good base to work on or a bit of both, who knows.

The last time Ireland were targeted with high/late tackles world rugby issued that decree about anything contacting the head etc. It's been completely ignored now but had it still been in full force the yellows would have been flying our of the ref's pocket. Good sense has prevailed, rugby is a batteringly physical sport and should remain that way. Sexton would agree and he is one tough warrior, a sore one this morning. POM is a slugger and thrives on physicality, it's great to have him back. Payne at 15? All questions have been answered. He only had one start in a match since his return from injury so we can forgive a couple of balls being dropped, the rest of his day was superb. The questions at lock and backrow have been answered too. Heaslip and Toner have to step aside, they've done their bit. The IRFU succession policy must be enforced after all, they're blocking younger, better players

Pete330v2 wrote:The last time Ireland were targeted with high/late tackles world rugby issued that decree about anything contacting the head etc. It's been completely ignored now but had it still been in full force the yellows would have been flying our of the ref's pocket. Good sense has prevailed, rugby is a batteringly physical sport and should remain that way. Sexton would agree and he is one tough warrior, a sore one this morning. POM is a slugger and thrives on physicality, it's great to have him back. Payne at 15? All questions have been answered. He only had one start in a match since his return from injury so we can forgive a couple of balls being dropped, the rest of his day was superb. The questions at lock and backrow have been answered too. Heaslip and Toner have to step aside, they've done their bit. The IRFU succession policy must be enforced after all, they're blocking younger, better players

Sitting back waiting for the backlash from guns and asoreleftshoulder about you being anti Leinster

alfie wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I do think that Itoje will learn and he is only 22 but I feel he will have to learn very quickly before he gets a name for himself and gets focussed on more by ref's. Another ref last night may have acted differently and sent him off for 10.

Agree with this.  I was watching with the sound turned off and at one point I thought he was about to be issued with his marching orders ...and I wasn't going to feel aggrieved.

Much better he keeps his aggression under control.  I'll bet the refs will be watching him a bit closer after this match...

Agree - however I'd also say the refs need to stop players holding others around the legs on the wrong side of the rucks etc to make space as I saw it happen to Itoje a couple of times yesterday no doubt adding to his frustration - this is not an excuse but I do think the refs need to stop that nonsense as it surely winds players up. I noticed he did give one pen when Haskel was taken out away from the ruck but he let a few more go.

I'd also agree that if there was any team we had to lose to I was glad it was Ireland - I was in Dublin in 2013 and had a great time ...

Yeah Heaf, he did say the ABs are there for the taking. He also said before today's game that he'd be keen to play the ABs on Sunday after beating Ireland. Now, I know it's all good fun and part of the so-called 'mind games', but is there a point when you as an England supporter think...."oi, stfu you Aussie knob".

We've won back to back titles humiliating Australia down under and breaking the South Africa hoodoo, one lose doesn't undo all his good work. You're too invested in what he says.

I think people need to stop saying England are shot etc. We lost a grand slam by 4 points!

Its a kick up the backside we needed! Can't wait for the Argentina tour to see who gets blooded!

I'd be more concerned if I was Irish...dominating the game yet only winning by 4 points!!!!

England are far from shot. I still think they are better than Ireland despite the loss. Losses like that add steel to a team, they will come back stronger.

Any news on Teo, he looked to be counting teeth when he went off.

I'd also agree that if there was any team we had to lose to I was glad it was Ireland

I heartily concur, although I must admit I was disappointed with the half time entertainment - where were the hang gliding Yaks and the free-form windsock and flegg formation dancing?

just beggars belief.