British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

First topic message reminder :

Fairly simple, champions cup aside, we have nearly all the information Garland will have to pick the Lions squad, so go ahead name your squad, your captain etc.

The Great Aukster wrote:

beshocked wrote:You should edit your post then gunsgerms because you were wrong.

It's not just about England-Ireland, it's about how teams do against others. As I keep saying England have been much more consistent than Ireland. Sure you can hark back to the RWC but that was over a year ago and I thought the NH sides were poor overall.

Ireland haven't beaten Australia in Australia since 1979. You have 1 victory vs NZ which you can't stop going on about even though it's only once. Also you've never beaten NZ in NZ. 1 victory doesn't make you all conquering - that's the point.

Didn't take NZ long at all to avenge their defeat either. They went to your patch and won.

18 wins in a row on the other hand is pretty impressive. It's not one notable win.

Spot on Beshocked. Ireland players are far too flakey to take on a serious tour of NZ - leave the lot of them alone (and at home) and concentrate on the hearts of oak from England and the 'been there done that' daffy taffs. Throw a good smattering of highlanders into the mix too so they can hook up with relatives round Dunedin.

The best thing about picking a lot of England players is it will be entertaining to see who disgraces themselves first through either pi$$ing themself, dwarf throwing, harbour jumping or wife cheating.

Gooseberry wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Even whilst the clear No 1 team in the world, what you admire most about NZ is that they quietly go about their business without any sense of hubris and arrogance.

Warren Gatland described himslef as embaressed to be a Kiwi after the behaviour and arrogance of All Blacks fans an the media only a few months ago.

Although he is largely full of poo. (And pretty arrogant)

We're despicable

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39418577

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Even whilst the clear No 1 team in the world, what you admire most about NZ is that they quietly go about their business without any sense of hubris and arrogance.

Warren Gatland described himslef as embaressed to be a Kiwi after the behaviour and arrogance of All Blacks fans an the media only a few months ago.

Although he is largely full of poo. (And pretty arrogant)

We're despicable

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39418577

Just a Fake News media stunt...

When you get adopted into one of these homes you'll probably be taped to a chair and forced to watch 24/7 replays of 2005.

Gooseberry wrote:

Warren Gatland described himslef as embaressed to be a Kiwi after the behaviour and arrogance of ....

...of Kiwis such as himself over the years?

It says on Wiki that his nickname is "The Gatfather".

Does anyone call him that?

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Even whilst the clear No 1 team in the world, what you admire most about NZ is that they quietly go about their business without any sense of hubris and arrogance.

Warren Gatland described himslef as embaressed to be a Kiwi after the behaviour and arrogance of All Blacks fans an the media only a few months ago.

Although he is largely full of poo. (And pretty arrogant)

We're despicable

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39418577

Just a Fake News media stunt...

When you get adopted into one of these homes you'll probably be taped to a chair and forced to watch 24/7 replays of 2005.

 Might learn something.

For some reason that's just made me slightly nervous for whoever is captain.

The Great Aukster wrote:

beshocked wrote:You should edit your post then gunsgerms because you were wrong.

It's not just about England-Ireland, it's about how teams do against others. As I keep saying England have been much more consistent than Ireland. Sure you can hark back to the RWC but that was over a year ago and I thought the NH sides were poor overall.

Ireland haven't beaten Australia in Australia since 1979. You have 1 victory vs NZ which you can't stop going on about even though it's only once. Also you've never beaten NZ in NZ. 1 victory doesn't make you all conquering - that's the point.

Didn't take NZ long at all to avenge their defeat either. They went to your patch and won.

18 wins in a row on the other hand is pretty impressive. It's not one notable win.

Spot on Beshocked. Ireland players are far too flakey to take on a serious tour of NZ - leave the lot of them alone (and at home) and concentrate on the hearts of oak from England and the 'been there done that' daffy taffs. Throw a good smattering of highlanders into the mix too so they can hook up with relatives round Dunedin.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

Spot on Beshocked. Ireland players are far too flakey to take on a serious tour of NZ - leave the lot of them alone (and at home) and concentrate on the hearts of oak from England and the 'been there done that' daffy taffs. Throw a good smattering of highlanders into the mix too so they can hook up with relatives round Dunedin.

He means platonically. We all know there might be legal issues if they hooked up with each other in more practical ways.

Gooseberry wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Even whilst the clear No 1 team in the world, what you admire most about NZ is that they quietly go about their business without any sense of hubris and arrogance.

Warren Gatland described himslef as embaressed to be a Kiwi after the behaviour and arrogance of All Blacks fans an the media only a few months ago.

Although he is largely full of poo. (And pretty arrogant)

Pfffft.

SecretFly wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

Spot on Beshocked. Ireland players are far too flakey to take on a serious tour of NZ - leave the lot of them alone (and at home) and concentrate on the hearts of oak from England and the 'been there done that' daffy taffs. Throw a good smattering of highlanders into the mix too so they can hook up with relatives round Dunedin.

He means platonically.  We all know there might be legal issues if they hooked up with each other in more practical ways.

Doesn't stop people in Tiverton.

its official Warburton is skipper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any chance of Chris Ashton being on the plane? Still finishing well for Sarries, but I would be nervous having him defend against Savea et al. However he is playing well and could be worth a tour spot.

poissonrouge wrote:

18 wins in a row on the other hand is pretty impressive. It's not one notable win

The figure looks impressive but the reality is that there was one good win in the 6N, one scraped win (against France), one win because the other side blew it (Wales) and one rather embarrassing episode against a team ranked 15th. Yes the wins against Australia last summer were good, but things haven't been quite so impressive in the recent past.
Maybe it suits the English psyche to be self-assertive, (wasn't the word I thought of first so I chose a synonym to avoid unnecessary conflict), but the price they pay for that is that they are fair game if they fail to live up to their own expectations. And I'm not sure that they lived up to them in the 6N

Still good enough to top the 6 nations and be the only side to beat an away team not called Italy. Not getting another GS is disappointing sure but sometimes losing can be good to show that work still to be done. England still have a way to go to be the best in the world.

Beating Wales in Wales was actually arguably the most impressive of them all - no one else managed it. A pumped up Wales didn't have enough in the tank to beat England.

Scoring 6 tries vs Italy to their 2 is hardly embarrassing. Only Ireland scored more tries vs the Italians.

Failing to live up to expectations? Nah - I am one of the most realistic and arguably most negative England fans. 2nd in the world - still behind the ABs but ahead of the rest - that's where are and deservedly so.

1 loss doesn't change that. Equally NZ losing to Ireland didn't prevent them still being the best side in the world.

England have weaknesses and some changes to make but going in the right direction.

I don't rate Gatland and his band of merry coaches bar Borthwick so I think the tour will be tough. I'd like more Irish to get picked.

hugehandoff wrote:Any chance of Chris Ashton being on the plane? Still finishing well for Sarries, but I would be nervous having him defend against Savea et al. However he is playing well and could be worth a tour spot.

As a Lion? No chance. Theres so much coimpetition for wing spots from much more rounded players without his baggage.
North, Watson, Daly, Nowell, that other Welsh chap they all think is great, Zebo, Maitland, Seymour ... those are all regular first choice test players will be contesting the wing spots. Even guys like May and Earls would be ahead of him. And then theres Salomonanonanao that Kiwi chap from League if Gatland really wanted to set off a media frenzy with a controversial selection.

Reagining form for his club is great,. but hes still a one dimensional strike wing with a terrible discplinary record.

Gooseberry wrote:

hugehandoff wrote:Any chance of Chris Ashton being on the plane? Still finishing well for Sarries, but I would be nervous having him defend against Savea et al. However he is playing well and could be worth a tour spot.

As a Lion? No chance. Theres so much coimpetition for wing spots from much more rounded players without his baggage.
North, Watson, Daly, Nowell, that other Welsh chap they all think is great, Zebo, Maitland, Seymour  ... those are all regular first choice test players will be contesting the wing spots. Even guys like May and Earls would be ahead of him. And then theres Salomonanonanao that Kiwi chap from League if Gatland really wanted to set off a media frenzy with a controversial selection.

Reagining form for his club is great,. but hes still a one dimensional strike wing with a terrible discplinary record.

Solomona would be no more controversial than, say, Stander (who many seem fine with).

Stander has 15 caps for Ireland, Solomona has yet to be capped.

Choosing stander now doesn't seem that odd.

Time is a great healer

rapidsnowman wrote:Stander has 15 caps for Ireland, Solomona has yet to be capped.

Choosing stander now doesn't seem that odd.

Time is a great healer

Lions bolter. It's traditional!

Cyril wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

hugehandoff wrote:Any chance of Chris Ashton being on the plane? Still finishing well for Sarries, but I would be nervous having him defend against Savea et al. However he is playing well and could be worth a tour spot.

As a Lion? No chance. Theres so much coimpetition for wing spots from much more rounded players without his baggage.
North, Watson, Daly, Nowell, that other Welsh chap they all think is great, Zebo, Maitland, Seymour  ... those are all regular first choice test players will be contesting the wing spots. Even guys like May and Earls would be ahead of him. And then theres Salomonanonanao that Kiwi chap from League if Gatland really wanted to set off a media frenzy with a controversial selection.

Reagining form for his club is great,. but hes still a one dimensional strike wing with a terrible discplinary record.

Solomona would be no more controversial than, say, Stander (who many seem fine with).

Oh trust me it will be if it happens, even for England.
Whether it should be or not is another question.

Noone will take particular issue with Maitland either despite him being a Samoan New Zealander who won an under 19 world cup for NZ and played for the Moari, played for the Irish exiles team, and plys his trade in England whilst playing for Scotland. And got arrested for assault.

Gooseberry wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

hugehandoff wrote:Any chance of Chris Ashton being on the plane? Still finishing well for Sarries, but I would be nervous having him defend against Savea et al. However he is playing well and could be worth a tour spot.

As a Lion? No chance. Theres so much coimpetition for wing spots from much more rounded players without his baggage.
North, Watson, Daly, Nowell, that other Welsh chap they all think is great, Zebo, Maitland, Seymour  ... those are all regular first choice test players will be contesting the wing spots. Even guys like May and Earls would be ahead of him. And then theres Salomonanonanao that Kiwi chap from League if Gatland really wanted to set off a media frenzy with a controversial selection.

Reagining form for his club is great,. but hes still a one dimensional strike wing with a terrible discplinary record.

Solomona would be no more controversial than, say, Stander (who many seem fine with).

Oh trust me it will be if it happens, even for England.
Whether it should be or not is another question.

Noone will take particular issue with Maitland either despite him being a Samoan New Zealander who won an under 19 world cup for NZ and played for the Moari, played for the Irish exiles team, and plys his trade in England whilst playing for Scotland. And got arrested for assault.

Yup, I meant 'should'.

Gooseberry wrote:Noone will take particular issue with Maitland either despite him being a Samoan New Zealander who won an under 19 world cup for NZ and played for the Moari, played for the Irish exiles team, and plys his trade in England whilst playing for Scotland. And got arrested for assault.

Didn't seem eligible at all until that last sentence.....

Gooseberry wrote:

hugehandoff wrote:Any chance of Chris Ashton being on the plane? Still finishing well for Sarries, but I would be nervous having him defend against Savea et al. However he is playing well and could be worth a tour spot.

As a Lion? No chance. Theres so much coimpetition for wing spots from much more rounded players without his baggage.
North, Watson, Daly, Nowell, that other Welsh chap they all think is great, Zebo, Maitland, Seymour  ... those are all regular first choice test players will be contesting the wing spots. Even guys like May and Earls would be ahead of him. And then theres Salomonanonanao that Kiwi chap from League if Gatland really wanted to set off a media frenzy with a controversial selection.

Reagining form for his club is great,. but hes still a one dimensional strike wing with a terrible discplinary record.

I certainly wouldn't pick Ashton on the Lions tour but I'd still pick him ahead of overrated wingers like Yarde and May. Though I doubt Lions will be desperate enough to go for any of them.

Still far down the pecking order - as a mid week player though I think he'd be fine.

Ashton and Maitland was also won their H2Hs with the Bath wingers.

Maitland has a much better chance of touring IMO. If he has a good game vs Glasgow it will enhance his chances.

beshocked wrote:Beating Wales in Wales was actually arguably the most impressive of them all - no one else managed it.

That's a daft way of putting it. Only one other side had the chance.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

beshocked wrote:Beating Wales in Wales was actually arguably the most impressive of them all - no one else managed it.

That's a daft way of putting it. Only one other side had the chance.

Aye. Beating a team that wasn't Italy away is more the moot point. Though it was the feat that decided the 6N

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

beshocked wrote:Beating Wales in Wales was actually arguably the most impressive of them all - no one else managed it.

That's a daft way of putting it. Only one other side had the chance.

Do you seriously think France,Scotland or Italy would have beaten Wales in Wales?

I don't. Home advantage counted for a lot.

It's why the NZ tour is even tougher a challenge. Not just playing NZ but in their backyard too.

Gooseberry wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

hugehandoff wrote:Any chance of Chris Ashton being on the plane? Still finishing well for Sarries, but I would be nervous having him defend against Savea et al. However he is playing well and could be worth a tour spot.

As a Lion? No chance. Theres so much coimpetition for wing spots from much more rounded players without his baggage.
North, Watson, Daly, Nowell, that other Welsh chap they all think is great, Zebo, Maitland, Seymour  ... those are all regular first choice test players will be contesting the wing spots. Even guys like May and Earls would be ahead of him. And then theres Salomonanonanao that Kiwi chap from League if Gatland really wanted to set off a media frenzy with a controversial selection.

Reagining form for his club is great,. but hes still a one dimensional strike wing with a terrible discplinary record.

Solomona would be no more controversial than, say, Stander (who many seem fine with).

Oh trust me it will be if it happens, even for England.
Whether it should be or not is another question.

Noone will take particular issue with Maitland either despite him being a Samoan New Zealander who won an under 19 world cup for NZ and played for the Moari, played for the Irish exiles team, and plys his trade in England whilst playing for Scotland. And got arrested for assault.

No-one takes too much issue with Maitland's residency-qualified cousin Quade either

(IIRC in the 2011 RWC 5 different teams included players from the NZ town of Tokaroa (popn. 14,000) in their squads)

rapidsnowman wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Noone will take particular issue with Maitland either despite him being a Samoan New Zealander who won an under 19 world cup for NZ and played for the Moari, played for the Irish exiles team, and plys his trade in England whilst playing for Scotland. And got arrested for assault.

Didn't seem eligible at all until that last sentence.....

It actually puts him in yet another box with Flutey who was done for GBH. Its no surprise we dont want to send any realy Britlanders down there amongst all those thugs.

beshocked wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

beshocked wrote:Beating Wales in Wales was actually arguably the most impressive of them all - no one else managed it.

That's a daft way of putting it. Only one other side had the chance.

Do you seriously think France,Scotland or Italy would have beaten Wales in Wales?

That's neither here nor there. You can't do something if you're not given the opportunity.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

hugehandoff wrote:Any chance of Chris Ashton being on the plane? Still finishing well for Sarries, but I would be nervous having him defend against Savea et al. However he is playing well and could be worth a tour spot.

As a Lion? No chance. Theres so much coimpetition for wing spots from much more rounded players without his baggage.
North, Watson, Daly, Nowell, that other Welsh chap they all think is great, Zebo, Maitland, Seymour  ... those are all regular first choice test players will be contesting the wing spots. Even guys like May and Earls would be ahead of him. And then theres Salomonanonanao that Kiwi chap from League if Gatland really wanted to set off a media frenzy with a controversial selection.

Reagining form for his club is great,. but hes still a one dimensional strike wing with a terrible discplinary record.

Solomona would be no more controversial than, say, Stander (who many seem fine with).

Oh trust me it will be if it happens, even for England.
Whether it should be or not is another question.

Noone will take particular issue with Maitland either despite him being a Samoan New Zealander who won an under 19 world cup for NZ and played for the Moari, played for the Irish exiles team, and plys his trade in England whilst playing for Scotland. And got arrested for assault.

No-one takes too much issue with Maitland's residency-qualified cousin Quade either

(IIRC in the 2011 RWC 5 different teams included players from the NZ town of Tokaroa (popn. 14,000) in their squads)

Well maybe its population would be a bit bigger if everyone wasnt so desperate to leave.

From memory GreyGhost (it may have been a nother of your comedians) had massive issues with Quade Cooper being alive let alone playing for Aus.

Gooseberry wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

hugehandoff wrote:Any chance of Chris Ashton being on the plane? Still finishing well for Sarries, but I would be nervous having him defend against Savea et al. However he is playing well and could be worth a tour spot.

As a Lion? No chance. Theres so much coimpetition for wing spots from much more rounded players without his baggage.
North, Watson, Daly, Nowell, that other Welsh chap they all think is great, Zebo, Maitland, Seymour  ... those are all regular first choice test players will be contesting the wing spots. Even guys like May and Earls would be ahead of him. And then theres Salomonanonanao that Kiwi chap from League if Gatland really wanted to set off a media frenzy with a controversial selection.

Reagining form for his club is great,. but hes still a one dimensional strike wing with a terrible discplinary record.

Solomona would be no more controversial than, say, Stander (who many seem fine with).

Oh trust me it will be if it happens, even for England.
Whether it should be or not is another question.

Noone will take particular issue with Maitland either despite him being a Samoan New Zealander who won an under 19 world cup for NZ and played for the Moari, played for the Irish exiles team, and plys his trade in England whilst playing for Scotland. And got arrested for assault.

No-one takes too much issue with Maitland's residency-qualified cousin Quade either

(IIRC in the 2011 RWC 5 different teams included players from the NZ town of Tokaroa (popn. 14,000) in their squads)

Well maybe its population would be a bit bigger if everyone wasnt so desperate to leave.

From memory GreyGhost (it may have been a nother of your comedians)  had massive issues with Quade Cooper being alive let alone playing for Aus.

That's because Quade's still got his laptop.

beshocked wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

hugehandoff wrote:Any chance of Chris Ashton being on the plane? Still finishing well for Sarries, but I would be nervous having him defend against Savea et al. However he is playing well and could be worth a tour spot.

As a Lion? No chance. Theres so much coimpetition for wing spots from much more rounded players without his baggage.
North, Watson, Daly, Nowell, that other Welsh chap they all think is great, Zebo, Maitland, Seymour  ... those are all regular first choice test players will be contesting the wing spots. Even guys like May and Earls would be ahead of him. And then theres Salomonanonanao that Kiwi chap from League if Gatland really wanted to set off a media frenzy with a controversial selection.

Reagining form for his club is great,. but hes still a one dimensional strike wing with a terrible discplinary record.

I certainly wouldn't pick Ashton on the Lions tour but I'd still pick him ahead of overrated wingers like Yarde and May. Though I doubt Lions will be desperate enough to go for any of them.

Still far down the pecking order - as a mid week player though I think he'd be fine.

Ashton and Maitland was also won their H2Hs with the Bath wingers.

Maitland has a much better chance of touring IMO. If he has a good game vs Glasgow it will enhance his chances.

Course you would

With Jimmy Goperth coming out saying that the Lions best chance of a series victory of is "all out attack", it got me thinking of the most attacking Lions team we could put out.

Here is what I came up with

1. Vunipola
2. Cronin
3. Sinkler
4. Itoje
5. Dillane
6. Moriarty
7. Tipuric
8. Vunipola

9. Prince
10. Cipriani
11. Wade
12. Eastmond
13. Joseph
14. Williams
15. Hogg

16. George
17. Healy
18. Furlong
19. Henderson
20. Young
21. Webb
22. Ford
23. Daly

A fair few tries there, scored and conceded!

Awful team.

Agreed mikey, there's literally 0 point having any Welsh players in a team that wants to attack

BamBam wrote:Agreed mikey, there's literally 0 point having any Welsh players in a team that wants to attack

Apart from the 6N top try-scorers and unofficial player(s) of the tournament (Webb, Owens) yes.

A real point in that I would want a 6 who carries far better than moriarty. Stander is the obvious one.

mikey_dragon wrote:

BamBam wrote:Agreed mikey, there's literally 0 point having any Welsh players in a team that wants to attack

Apart from the 6N top try-scorers and unofficial player(s) of the tournament (Webb, Owens) yes.

Top try scorers eh

England - 16
Ireland - 14
France - 8
Scotland - 14
Wales - 8
Italy - 6

Unofficial player(s) of the tournament is amazing even by Welsh standards

In an attacking sense wrecking-ball Stander seems the obvious choice, but I think this 6N has shown that Moriarty has become a very good all-round flanker.

Really? He wasn't playing flanker.

chris_501 wrote:With Jimmy Goperth coming out saying that the Lions best chance of a series victory of is "all out attack", it got me thinking of the most attacking Lions team we could put out.

Here is what I came up with

1. Vunipola
2. Cronin
3. Sinkler
4. Itoje
5. Dillane
6. Moriarty
7. Tipuric
8. Vunipola

9. Prince
10. Cipriani
11. Wade
12. Eastmond
13. Joseph
14. Williams
15. Hogg

16. George
17. Healy
18. Furlong
19. Henderson
20. Young
21. Webb
22. Ford
23. Daly

A fair few tries there, scored and conceded!

Joey Carbery at 10? He is a great attacking fly half or Russell obviously.

BamBam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

BamBam wrote:Agreed mikey, there's literally 0 point having any Welsh players in a team that wants to attack

Apart from the 6N top try-scorers and unofficial player(s) of the tournament (Webb, Owens) yes.

Top try scorers eh

England - 16
Ireland - 14
France - 8
Scotland - 14
Wales - 8
Italy - 6

Unofficial player(s) of the tournament is amazing even by Welsh standards

North and Liam Williams (3 each), which makes them joint top try-scorers. Clearly you need players that can score tries in a team that wants to attack - can't believe I had to explain that to you.

Yeah not sure how Hogg won it; should have been Webb, Owens or AWJ... It's too bad we can't phone/text in and vote as was the case in the world cup. England fans would probably have voted for Hartley .

mikey_dragon wrote:Awful team.

Thanks for the vote of confidence pal!

No 7&1/2 wrote:Really? He wasn't playing flanker.

A flanker that plays 8, right next door... Therefore a good all-round flanker having spent the majority of his career at 6.

So having a good 6 nations at 8 shows he's a good flanker. Got you. Personally I thought he was exceptional in the defensive aspects but as I pointed to above I think his carrying was pretty poor. A good 6 in the Lydiate worsley mould definitely.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So having a good 6 nations at 8 shows he's a good flanker. Got you. Personally I thought he was exceptional in the defensive aspects but as I pointed to above I think his carrying was pretty poor. A good 6 in the Lydiate worsley mould definitely.

He has scored some very good tries for Gloucester off some great lines. Also carried particularly well against NZ last summer, but Stander would have been my next choice. I'm still undecided about whether I would select him in any Lions team though.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So having a good 6 nations at 8 shows he's a good flanker. Got you. Personally I thought he was exceptional in the defensive aspects but as I pointed to above I think his carrying was pretty poor. A good 6 in the Lydiate worsley mould definitely.

Considering he played very well out of position, yes, exactly that. What do you know you are capable of sensible discussion. A good defender most definitely. His ball control at the base of the scrum seemed like it was good and I can't remember him being ineffective at carrying (haven't checked the stats). Stander is obviously one of the top carrier though.

Oh he'd be a country mile offy squad let alone team chris. Too many currently better options.

I lack patience for wums mikey but always try to make proper points.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Oh he'd be a country mile offy squad let alone team chris. Too many currently better options.

I lack patience for wums mikey but always try to make proper points.

You need to stop dismissing good folk as wums when they have an opinion different to your own, it's pathetic.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So having a good 6 nations at 8 shows he's a good flanker. Got you. Personally I thought he was exceptional in the defensive aspects but as I pointed to above I think his carrying was pretty poor. A good 6 in the Lydiate worsley mould definitely.

While I know I should avoid yet another tedious Anglo-Welsh who's-got-the-smallest-willy-in-junior-school contest, Moriarty wearing 8 was a bit like Itoje wearing 8 - not necessarily reflective of their actual role. And both good players

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So having a good 6 nations at 8 shows he's a good flanker. Got you. Personally I thought he was exceptional in the defensive aspects but as I pointed to above I think his carrying was pretty poor. A good 6 in the Lydiate worsley mould definitely.

Considering he played very well out of position, yes, exactly that. What do you know you are capable of sensible discussion. A good defender most definitely. His ball control at the base of the scrum seemed like it was good and I can't remember him being ineffective at carrying (haven't checked the stats). Stander is obviously one of the top carrier though.

Moriarty's tackle count vs England was impressive. He managed 6 metres carried that game IIRC though, 1 metre less than Cuthbert