British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

First topic message reminder :

Fairly simple, champions cup aside, we have nearly all the information Garland will have to pick the Lions squad, so go ahead name your squad, your captain etc.

I dismiss wum posts mikey which are easy to spot from a mile off. I disagree with people like beshocked all the time but you'll be hard pressed to find me calling a wum.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote: (IIRC in the 2011 RWC 5 different teams included players from the NZ town of Tokaroa (popn. 14,000) in their squads)

NZ, Australia, Ireland, Fiji and Samoa?

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So having a good 6 nations at 8 shows he's a good flanker. Got you. Personally I thought he was exceptional in the defensive aspects but as I pointed to above I think his carrying was pretty poor. A good 6 in the Lydiate worsley mould definitely.

Considering he played very well out of position, yes, exactly that. What do you know you are capable of sensible discussion. A good defender most definitely. His ball control at the base of the scrum seemed like it was good and I can't remember him being ineffective at carrying (haven't checked the stats). Stander is obviously one of the top carrier though.

Moriarty's tackle count vs England was impressive. He managed 6 metres carried that game IIRC though, 1 metre less than Cuthbert

Watson probably leads the home nations in stats in terms of work as a flanker, in 51 minutes against Ireland he made 17 tackles and missed none, over the course of the tournament he made 68 tackles and missed 2, scored 8 turnovers and my favourite stat : clean breaks 0 but defenders beaten 11!

I would expect Hamish Watson to play some kind of part over the Lions tour, perhaps not starting with the squad but being called up is likely. The guy had a great tournament.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So having a good 6 nations at 8 shows he's a good flanker. Got you. Personally I thought he was exceptional in the defensive aspects but as I pointed to above I think his carrying was pretty poor. A good 6 in the Lydiate worsley mould definitely.

Considering he played very well out of position, yes, exactly that. What do you know you are capable of sensible discussion. A good defender most definitely. His ball control at the base of the scrum seemed like it was good and I can't remember him being ineffective at carrying (haven't checked the stats). Stander is obviously one of the top carrier though.

Moriarty's tackle count vs England was impressive. He managed 6 metres carried that game IIRC though, 1 metre less than Cuthbert

You had to go there . Against a strong pack I would assume most of our effective carrying was done in the backs in that game. Overall however I don't think Moriarty's carrying was bad, without looking it up. What is IIRC by the way?

whocares wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote: (IIRC in the 2011 RWC 5 different teams included players from the NZ town of Tokaroa (popn. 14,000) in their squads)

NZ, Australia, Ireland, Fiji and Samoa?

Isaac Boss just missed the Irish squad, but Maitloand was there for Scotland

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So having a good 6 nations at 8 shows he's a good flanker. Got you. Personally I thought he was exceptional in the defensive aspects but as I pointed to above I think his carrying was pretty poor. A good 6 in the Lydiate worsley mould definitely.

Considering he played very well out of position, yes, exactly that. What do you know you are capable of sensible discussion. A good defender most definitely. His ball control at the base of the scrum seemed like it was good and I can't remember him being ineffective at carrying (haven't checked the stats). Stander is obviously one of the top carrier though.

Moriarty's tackle count vs England was impressive. He managed 6 metres carried that game IIRC though, 1 metre less than Cuthbert

You had to go there . Against a strong pack I would assume most of our effective carrying was done in the backs in that game. Overall however I don't think Moriarty's carrying was bad, without looking it up. What is IIRC by the way?

If I Recall Correctly (since I couldn't be bothered going back and double checking)

LH
M Vunipola
G Jenkins
N Smith

H
K Owens
D Hartley

TH
A Jones
P Vickery
S Lee

SR
AW Jones
L Charteris
C Lawes
J Launchbury

FL
S Warburton
J Tipuric
D Lydiate
CJ Stander

No8
J Heaslip
T Falateu

SH
C Murray
M Phillips

FH
J Sexton
O Farrell

IC
J Roberts
J Roberts

OC
J Davies
B O'Driscoll (for lols)

W
G North
T Bowe
A Cuthbert
S Maitland

FB
L Williams
L Halfpenny

cascough wrote:LH
M Vunipola
G Jenkins
N Smith

H
K Owens
D Hartley

TH
A Jones
P Vickery
S Lee

SR
AW Jones
L Charteris
C Lawes
J Launchbury

FL
S Warburton
J Tipuric
D Lydiate
CJ Stander

No8
J Heaslip
T Falateu

SH
C Murray
M Phillips

FH
J Sexton
O Farrell

IC
J Roberts
J Roberts

OC
J Davies
B O'Driscoll (for lols)

W
G North
T Bowe
A Cuthbert
S Maitland

FB
L Williams
L Halfpenny

Damn, that was meant for the other thread. And I forgot J Hook as 3rd hooker.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

whocares wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote: (IIRC in the 2011 RWC 5 different teams included players from the NZ town of Tokaroa (popn. 14,000) in their squads)

NZ, Australia, Ireland, Fiji and Samoa?

Isaac Boss just missed the Irish squad, but Maitloand was there for Scotland

Was he?

No 7&1/2 wrote:I dismiss wum posts mikey which are easy to spot from a mile off. I disagree with people like beshocked all the time but you'll be hard pressed to find me calling a wum.

A pity you didn't call out BamBam then. You just wanna whinge at Mikey as per . IIRC you dismissed beshocked as wum for advocating Jamie George over Hartley.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

whocares wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote: (IIRC in the 2011 RWC 5 different teams included players from the NZ town of Tokaroa (popn. 14,000) in their squads)

NZ, Australia, Ireland, Fiji and Samoa?

Isaac Boss just missed the Irish squad, but Maitloand was there for Scotland

It's quite remarkable. If you can recall correctly.... who were the ones in teams except for NZ? I imagine you can't list every one for Samoa off the top of your head.

Maitland, and...

I didn't engage with bam. I don't remember ever calling beshocked a wum so would be surprised at that. Not whinging at you either.

Mikey, Mikey is a Wum!
Throw him in the dungeons,
well away from the Sun!

Mikey, Mikey is a Wum!
But who gives a damn,
it's a whole lotta fun!

No 7&1/2 wrote:I didn't engage with bam. I don't remember ever calling beshocked a wum so would be surprised at that. Not whinging at you either.

Perhaps I recalled incorrectly .

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So having a good 6 nations at 8 shows he's a good flanker. Got you. Personally I thought he was exceptional in the defensive aspects but as I pointed to above I think his carrying was pretty poor. A good 6 in the Lydiate worsley mould definitely.

Considering he played very well out of position, yes, exactly that. What do you know you are capable of sensible discussion. A good defender most definitely. His ball control at the base of the scrum seemed like it was good and I can't remember him being ineffective at carrying (haven't checked the stats). Stander is obviously one of the top carrier though.

Moriarty's tackle count vs England was impressive. He managed 6 metres carried that game IIRC though, 1 metre less than Cuthbert

You had to go there . Against a strong pack I would assume most of our effective carrying was done in the backs in that game. Overall however I don't think Moriarty's carrying was bad, without looking it up. What is IIRC by the way?

Cuthberts my unofficial player of the tournament

According to the scrum.com stats Moriarty managed 11m and Cutherbert 4 btw

SecretFly wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

whocares wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote: (IIRC in the 2011 RWC 5 different teams included players from the NZ town of Tokaroa (popn. 14,000) in their squads)

NZ, Australia, Ireland, Fiji and Samoa?

Isaac Boss just missed the Irish squad, but Maitloand was there for Scotland

Was he?

Oops. 2015 for Maitland not 2011. And Boss played in 2011 but missed 2015. Friday brain
Sadly Henry Paul missed 2011


Quade Cooper and Mealamu made both 2011 and 2015, Richard Kahui made 2011. And I've forgotten who the PI players were

Jamie Haslip is my player of the tournament. He should get it on looks and marketability alone never mind because he was better, stronger, faster, fitter and smarter than everyone else. He also owns a few restaurants and bars and has a fairly sizeable twitter following.

he is probably the biggest rugby asset in NH rugby.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Jamie Haslip is my player of the tournament. He should get it on looks and marketability alone never mind because he was better, stronger, faster, fitter and smarter than everyone else. He also owns a few restaurants and bars and has a fairly sizeable twitter following.

he is probably the biggest rugby asset in NH rugby.

Is that official or unofficial? Its important to be specific Guns

Irish backrows in the Lions squad. Given the strength of the back row pool of players for the Lions there will probably only be one or two picked from Ireland. This is how BOD sees it. Interestingly he doesnt think O'Mahoney has the goods to the a Lions test starter:

I think Peter O'Mahony has had a huge game against England but he essentially hasn't been playing for the national team.

Would he do a brilliant job in the midweek team? That's what a lot of people are talking about. You've got to pick guys in the test reckoning. When you look at the strength of the back row, I'm not sure he features in that with the best of them.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I think one player gets picked between Sean O'Brien, Stander and Peter O'Mahony.

I don't feel it's likely to be Pete and it would be some shock if they left Stander out. Don't be shocked of you see Sean O'Brien in the squad, even though he hasn't been playing the best rugby of his career. He played at 7 in the third test in Australia in 2013 and played really well.

Warren Gatland likes him and Andy Farrell likes him, so don't be shocked if you see Sean O'Brien in the squad, even though he hasn't been playing the best rugby of his career.

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/brian-odriscoll-ireland-lions-players-flanker-362118

Interestingly he didnt comment on whether or not Donnacha Ryan would be selected for the Lions.

BamBam wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Jamie Haslip is my player of the tournament. He should get it on looks and marketability alone never mind because he was better, stronger, faster, fitter and smarter than everyone else. He also owns a few restaurants and bars and has a fairly sizeable twitter following.

he is probably the biggest rugby asset in NH rugby.

Is that official or unofficial? Its important to be specific Guns

Its just a rumour at this point but he is definitely rumoured to be my player of the tournament.

BamBam wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Jamie Haslip is my player of the tournament. He should get it on looks and marketability alone never mind because he was better, stronger, faster, fitter and smarter than everyone else. He also owns a few restaurants and bars and has a fairly sizeable twitter following.

he is probably the biggest rugby asset in NH rugby.

Is that official or unofficial? Its important to be specific Guns

Nostradamus quote:

"His name, Heathlap. From the Black Pool, he will rise in the 4th Quadrant. Splendour be his name worshipped about the lands for thus will be his deeds of a magnitude to take the breath from those who remained alive to witness it. He doth smite his enemy, and the Irish Press, with but a gaze from under his Atlantean locks. 'Lion' they will call him and blood red shall be his livery, and red shall be the colour of fear of those heathens from the Silver Ferns that scatter before him"

It's pretty close for a 400 year old prophesy.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Irish backrows in the Lions squad. Given the strength of the back row pool of players for the Lions there will probably only be one or two picked from Ireland. This is how BOD sees it. Interestingly he doesnt think O'Mahoney has the goods to the a Lions test starter:

I think Peter O'Mahony has had a huge game against England but he essentially hasn't been playing for the national team.

Would he do a brilliant job in the midweek team? That's what a lot of people are talking about. You've got to pick guys in the test reckoning. When you look at the strength of the back row, I'm not sure he features in that with the best of them.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I think one player gets picked between Sean O'Brien, Stander and Peter O'Mahony.

I don't feel it's likely to be Pete and it would be some shock if they left Stander out. Don't be shocked of you see Sean O'Brien in the squad, even though he hasn't been playing the best rugby of his career. He played at 7 in the third test in Australia in 2013 and played really well.

Warren Gatland likes him and Andy Farrell likes him, so don't be shocked if you see Sean O'Brien in the squad, even though he hasn't been playing the best rugby of his career.

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/brian-odriscoll-ireland-lions-players-flanker-362118

Interestingly he didnt comment on whether or not Donnacha Ryan would be selected for the Lions.

BOD, wonderful, wonderful player. As a pundit - a terrible waffler

Nah he isnt a waffler he says it as he sees it. Some people dont like that though.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Nah he isnt a waffler he says it as he sees it. Some people dont like that though.

According to the Irish BOD was unofficially dropped from the Lions in 2013.

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Nah he isnt a waffler he says it as he sees it. Some people dont like that though.

According to the Irish BOD was unofficially dropped from the Lions in 2013.

Have you not moved on from that yet Mikey? Has Wales ever had a centre as good as Bod?

No, he's a waffler.  He's always admitted that he didn't know, or particularly care too much about what went on in the forwards (and yep, that was him being refreshingly honest)  
However, to suggest POM hasn't the right quality to play a full test but might make a decent midweeker is claptrap.  Yes, there are only 15 player playing in a test at any given time, and many contenders looking for one of those rare numbers - and Gatland will select the players he wants of course - but for BOD to suggest POM couldn't handle a game against the All Blacks is crud.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Nah he isnt a waffler he says it as he sees it. Some people dont like that though.

According to the Irish BOD was unofficially dropped from the Lions in 2013.

Have you not moved on from that yet Mikey? Has Wales ever had a centre as good as Bod?

The World itself hasn't had too many to match him.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Nah he isnt a waffler he says it as he sees it. Some people dont like that though.

According to the Irish BOD was unofficially dropped from the Lions in 2013.

Have you not moved on from that yet Mikey? Has Wales ever had a centre as good as Bod?

It seems you have a short memory. The answer to that is Jonathan Davies .

Now, have Ireland ever had halfbacks as good as Gareth Edwards and Barry John?

SecretFly wrote:No, he's a waffler.  He's always admitted that he didn't know, or particularly care too much about what went on in the forwards (and yep, that was him being refreshingly honest)  
However, to suggest POM hasn't the right quality to play a full test but might make a decent midweeker is claptrap.  Yes, there are only 15 player playing in a test at any given time, and many contenders looking for one of those rare numbers - and Gatland will select the players he wants of course - but for BOD to suggest POM couldn't handle a game against the All Blacks is crud.

POM is a great player but a tad over rated particularly in the way in which he was literally credited with single handedly beating England.

He does what he does really, gives a million percent, a good all rounder, a real line out option and is a good leader. He isnt as physical as other options and probably at his best not as good as SOB at his best who nearly always gets the better of his opposite number when he plays NZ.

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Nah he isnt a waffler he says it as he sees it. Some people dont like that though.

According to the Irish BOD was unofficially dropped from the Lions in 2013.

Have you not moved on from that yet Mikey? Has Wales ever had a centre as good as Bod?

It seems you have a short memory. The answer to that is Jonathan Davies .

Now, have Ireland ever had halfbacks as good as Gareth Edwards and Barry John?

Ahahahaha. Davies Its Friday.

Jokes aside Davies is very good of course but were are talking about another level. The answer is no there has never been a Welsh centre as good as O'Driscoll and probably never one as good as Mike Gibson either.

I like Gareth Edwards a lot but wasnt alive to see him play. He seems a great rugby guy.

Scrum half is Ireland's weakest all time position so there probably hasnt been anyone as good as Gareth Edwards.

I dont know much about Barry John. Other than having two first names what makes him remarkable? What makes him a better player that Sexton for example who has won everything (except the world cup) and defeated all teams for club and country?

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Nah he isnt a waffler he says it as he sees it. Some people dont like that though.

According to the Irish BOD was unofficially dropped from the Lions in 2013.

Have you not moved on from that yet Mikey? Has Wales ever had a centre as good as Bod?

It seems you have a short memory. The answer to that is Jonathan Davies .

Now, have Ireland ever had halfbacks as good as Gareth Edwards and Barry John?

Jonathan Davies? Warren's attempt at a BOD clone when he knew he was never going to let BOD take the shine off his personal victory over the Mighty Aussies! The following 6N, normal service resumed.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
POM is a great player but a tad over rated particularly in the way in which he was literally credited with single handedly beating England.

He does what he does really, gives a million percent, a good all rounder, a real line out option and is a good leader. He isnt as physical as other options and probably at his best not as good as SOB at his best who nearly always gets the better of his opposite number when he plays NZ.

He's good enough to be a side that has a crack or two at the ABs. It's not whether he makes it or not - it's the inference from BOD that he isn't up to it. He is.

he undoubtedly he is but I think the point is there is a queue of marginally better players ahead of him.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Nah he isnt a waffler he says it as he sees it. Some people dont like that though.

According to the Irish BOD was unofficially dropped from the Lions in 2013.

Have you not moved on from that yet Mikey? Has Wales ever had a centre as good as Bod?

It seems you have a short memory. The answer to that is Jonathan Davies .

Now, have Ireland ever had halfbacks as good as Gareth Edwards and Barry John?

Ahahahaha. Davies Its Friday.

Jokes aside Davies is very good of course but were are talking about another level. The answer is no there has never been a Welsh centre as good as O'Driscoll and probably never one as good as Mike Gibson either.

Scott Gibbs. Jokes aside, not many, if any, have been as good as BOD... except for in 2013.

SecretFly wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Nah he isnt a waffler he says it as he sees it. Some people dont like that though.

According to the Irish BOD was unofficially dropped from the Lions in 2013.

Have you not moved on from that yet Mikey? Has Wales ever had a centre as good as Bod?

It seems you have a short memory. The answer to that is Jonathan Davies .

Now, have Ireland ever had halfbacks as good as Gareth Edwards and Barry John?

Jonathan Davies? Warren's attempt at a BOD clone when he knew he was never going to let BOD take the shine off his personal victory over the Mighty Aussies!   The following 6N, normal service resumed.

That 6N is the first time we were introduced to the one-dimensional Schmidtball. Since then, Gatlandball has trumped Schmidtball every time .

Eh no he hasnt.

Was Barry John a better OH that Sexton?

SecretFly wrote:
He's good enough to be a side that has a crack or two at the ABs.  It's not whether he makes it or not - it's the inference from BOD that he isn't up to it.  He is.

I have nothing but respect for BOD the player but have to agree with you, he is an awful pundit. POM was out injured but when he returned to the side, brought balance and leadership in the back row for Ireland. It's a quality player that can fit back into International rugby seamlessly. To suggest that POM is not up to it is just poor.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Eh no he hasnt.

Was Barry John a better OH that Sexton?

Apparently so, as was Phil Bennett .

Was ROG?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:No, he's a waffler.  He's always admitted that he didn't know, or particularly care too much about what went on in the forwards (and yep, that was him being refreshingly honest)  
However, to suggest POM hasn't the right quality to play a full test but might make a decent midweeker is claptrap.  Yes, there are only 15 player playing in a test at any given time, and many contenders looking for one of those rare numbers - and Gatland will select the players he wants of course - but for BOD to suggest POM couldn't handle a game against the All Blacks is crud.

POM is a great player but a tad over rated particularly in the way in which he was literally credited with single handedly beating England.

He does what he does really, gives a million percent, a good all rounder, a real line out option and is a good leader. He isnt as physical as other options and probably at his best not as good as SOB at his best who nearly always gets the better of his opposite number when he plays NZ.

You are right that POM didnt single handed beat England. He did have a great game though. The difference was the balance in the back row. Having the best no.8 & no.6 playing certainly was the major difference. Only that vdf was injured it would have been better as the tullow tank was more like a horse drawn caravan ( something you would know about) rather than a Massey ferguson.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:he undoubtedly he is but I think the point is there is a queue of marginally better players ahead of him.

Who are those players? You can move players out of position into the 6 shirt, but as far as I can see they aren't as good. The reality is that O'Mahony is, at the very least, one of the best in the world in his position. He demonstrated in one game for Ireland why he is better suited than Stander at blindside flanker. He has demonstrated it for years at Munster.

I also don't see how you can claim that POM is overrated when he has barely featured in the Lions talk until his return to international rugby. Nor that people are attributing the victory over England solely to him. He was a big factor, though, evidently. Perhaps you are annoyed that he is taking the credit from Schmidt?

I sometimes think you are the other side of the same coin that Sin belongs to.

POM interviewing Gats!

Sin é wrote:

POM interviewing Gats!

"Look, mate, stop coming in to my personal spice. I said no, I'm not going to keep explaining myself to you. You're a reasonable ployah for an amateur but number 1: there are plenty Welsh boys ahead of you - even the 20 of them that'll be doing bench warmin' duty.... and number 2, you're Arse."
"I'm an arse?"
"The Arse did me wrong and it's poy back toyme again, mate. Lions toyme is always poy back toyme for the Arse."

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

POM interviewing Gats!

"Look, mate, stop coming in to my personal spice.  I said no, I'm not going to keep explaining myself to you.  You're a reasonable ployah for an amateur but number 1: there are plenty Welsh boys ahead of you - even the 20 of them that'll be doing bench warmin' duty.... and number 2, you're Arse."
"I'm an arse?"
"The Arse did me wrong and it's poy back toyme again, mate.  Lions toyme is always poy back toyme for the Arse."

I see Gatland has been spending too much time in Birmingham. That Brummie accent of his is unmistakeable

Nah mite... it's fair dinkum SH.... I should know, moi brother and nephews speak it plenty.

Another imperious display by POM yesterday. Gatland is not a stupid coach recognise his leadership, work around the breakdown and his line out qualities. If fit and uninjured, he will tour.

Watching the Sarries v Glasgow game. Stuart Barnes seems tp think that Chris Ashton might be on the Lions tour.

Never thought about him being on the  Lions tour.

Nick Abendanon wouldn't be a bad pick.

I know there can be what they call ( bolters) But i all ways thought that any one who is selected for the Lions, will be playing international games.

Ashton/ Abendanon have not played international rugby for a few years now have they?